More Budget Cuts

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The old saying "Cash is King" is never more true than in a downturn -the one thing that will keep even a loss making business going in the short/medium term. Mr Mc's interests are with the exception of United, and to a lesser extent Chengdu and Fradi exclusively in property and at the moment, cash flow in the property market is severely restricted. If you can sell a property, and that's a big if at the moment, at best you are likely ro pay off the debt attaching to it. Rental incomes are dwindling fast as tenants go bust or downsize. Football however, if nothing else, does generate cash. All the sums we are capable of based on our limited knowledge suggest that over recent months United have produced a cash surplus and taken in isolation, more than enough to put the football activities on a healthy financial footing. It seems reasonable to suppose then that United are being used to supplement a dwindling cash flow in Mr Mc's property empire.
 
beightonblade said:
Hey up Tony ..............

Just mi humble opinion ;) Its clear to me McCabe has been doing the preparation to introduce new investors the credit crunch mixed things up a bit but when i said yonks ago he wud de-list get the cheats money and sell up i was ridiculled :D well he de-listed and got the cheats money now i think it will be gently gently ..... new investors then goodbye......
the only thing i am confused about is the freehold to BDTBL..... one thought wud be McCabe retains it and leases it back to The Blades. he like property Mr McCabe.

time will tell Tony.
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This sale and leaseback thing is interesting. The freehold is just about the only thing of any value in my opinion. I suppose he could then sell the shares in SUFC Ltd for £1 which brings you into play Beighton!
 
Isiah said:
The old saying "Cash is King" is never more true than in a downturn -the one thing that will keep even a loss making business going in the short/medium term. Mr Mc's interests are with the exception of United, and to a lesser extent Chengdu and Fradi exclusively in property and at the moment, cash flow in the property market is severely restricted. If you can sell a property, and that's a big if at the moment, at best you are likely ro pay off the debt attaching to it. Rental incomes are dwindling fast as tenants go bust or downsize. Football however, if nothing else, does generate cash. All the sums we are capable of based on our limited knowledge suggest that over recent months United have produced a cash surplus and taken in isolation, more than enough to put the football activities on a healthy financial footing. It seems reasonable to suppose then that United are being used to supplement a dwindling cash flow in Mr Mc's property empire.
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Correct. McCabe has been very very badly hit by the recession. The Valad deal has turned into a disaster for him - he must be absolutely devastated. Would love to know how much cash he has had out of it rather than the worthless paper he now holds.

The cash outs to Scarborough are incredible really and proof to me that cash wise SUFC are very well off. Surely no other CCC chairman is envisaging taking cash out like this in the next few years - whether it be loan repayments or dividends.
 
Highbury_Blade said:
No, but presumedly we have to commit to building something.
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If we win the bid it will definitely get built, otherwise everyone at United will look like a complete set of twats. Presumably the money to be made from being a host club will offset a fair portion of the cost. Otherwise, why are minnows like Milton Keynes and Sheffield Wednesday clamouring to get a slice of the pie?

If we don't win the bid, most of the plans will be quietly shelved and gather dust until we're back in The Premiership.
 
Micalijo said:
Correct. McCabe has been very very badly hit by the recession. The Valad deal has turned into a disaster for him - he must be absolutely devastated. Would love to know how much cash he has had out of it rather than the worthless paper he now holds.

The cash outs to Scarborough are incredible really and proof to me that cash wise SUFC are very well off. Surely no other CCC chairman is envisaging taking cash out like this in the next few years - whether it be loan repayments or dividends.
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Didn't he actually get a lot of cash then when no more was forthcoming took back a stake in the company instead and will probably make more in the longer term when the market picks up?
 
Bramley said:
Cheats money is coming to us incrementally over a period of time. So if McCabe walks in the next few years he certainly won't see most of it.
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correct...........then reight of to McCabes coffers, read up on the re payment of loans to him. Him walking wud make no difference.
 
beightonblade said:
Hey up Tony ..............

Just mi humble opinion ;) Its clear to me McCabe has been doing the preparation to introduce new investors the credit crunch mixed things up a bit but when i said yonks ago he wud de-list get the cheats money and sell up i was ridiculled :D well he de-listed and got the cheats money now i think it will be gently gently ..... new investors then goodbye......
the only thing i am confused about is the freehold to BDTBL..... one thought wud be McCabe retains it and leases it back to The Blades. he like property Mr McCabe.

time will tell Tony.
Click to expand...
Cheers BB, what I was eluding to in that request was indeed the fact that I recall your predictions and indeed getting a bit of flack for it (quite possibly from me!) so I thought it would be interesting to see your current predictions seeing as though things seem to be happening quite quickly down at Bramall Lane. :)
 
Sothall_Blade said:
If we win the bid it will definitely get built, otherwise everyone at United will look like a complete set of twats. Presumably the money to be made from being a host club will offset a fair portion of the cost..
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I can't see it. 3 games (132,000 fans max) at £30 per head = £5M gate money. Even if we got to keep the lot, we'd be massively out of pocket.

I think United are going to suffer a whim of McCabe, and Wendy want a cock fight with us, nothing more.

UTB
 
beightonblade said:
correct...........then reight of to McCabes coffers, read up on the re payment of loans to him. Him walking wud make no difference.
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If McCabe's owed money, he's owed money.
Whether he's a director, chairman, cleaner, tea lady it doesn't matter.
 



lenners said:
If McCabe's owed money, he's owed money.
Whether he's a director, chairman, cleaner, tea lady it doesn't matter.
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Quite right Lenners and if you're a negative soul you could say he's determined to get it back no matter what the effect on United.
A more positive soul however could see this as him being fairly certain that, possibly because of new investment, no harm will befall!!:)
 
TonyAgana said:
Cheers BB, what I was eluding to in that request was indeed the fact that I recall your predictions and indeed getting a bit of flack for it (quite possibly from me!) so I thought it would be interesting to see your current predictions seeing as though things seem to be happening quite quickly down at Bramall Lane. :)
Click to expand...

Listen to owd BB Tony ...............

I can't be as thick as i appear ! ..........can i ? :D
 
Loughborough, I asked that very question at the December Shareholder's meeting.
The reply was that the United guy who dealt with that had died.
Could only happen at United.
 
oh forgot to say ..............

one way forward cud be the spliting of McCabes global football empire.... with new investors/owners getting the football side and McCabe retaining the property assets....
 
beightonblade said:
oh forgot to say ..............

one way forward cud be the spliting of McCabes global football empire.... with new investors/owners getting the football side and McCabe retaining the property assets....
Click to expand...

Yeh, he would be our Boothy :mad:
 
beightonblade said:
oh forgot to say ..............

one way forward cud be the spliting of McCabes global football empire.... with new investors/owners getting the football side and McCabe retaining the property assets....
Click to expand...

But it's already split.
The hotel, enterprise centre, Chengdu and possibly one or two other bits and bobs are the club's, the rest is McCabe's anyway.
 
beightonblade said:
oh forgot to say ..............

one way forward cud be the spliting of McCabes global football empire.... with new investors/owners getting the football side and McCabe retaining the property assets....
Click to expand...

I reckon it's the only way forward BB unless he's having a fire sale on the property side to fund the Blades!:)
 
lenners said:
But it's already split.
The hotel, enterprise centre, Chengdu and possibly one or two other bits and bobs are the club's, the rest is McCabe's anyway.
Click to expand...

I think McCabe still ultimateley retains the freeholds.
 
alcoblade said:
I can't see it. 3 games (132,000 fans max) at £30 per head = £5M gate money. Even if we got to keep the lot, we'd be massively out of pocket. UTB
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I know, if only we had a stake in a hotel somewhere near the ground, so we could maximise our income ;)

I also suspect the average ticket would be more than £30 per head + Merchandise + Catering + Exec boxes. Then there's the ongoing income from a second Business centre + Exec boxes + the occassional big match.

I tend to believe that McCabe will have done the sums on this one. He didn't become a multi-millionaire by building stuff in the knowledge it would cost more than he could recoup (in the long term!).
 
Sothall_Blade said:
I know, if only we had a stake in a hotel somewhere near the ground, so we could maximise our income ;)

I also suspect the average ticket would be more than £30 per head + Merchandise + Catering + Exec boxes. Then there's the ongoing income from a second Business centre + Exec boxes + the occassional big match.

I tend to believe that McCabe will have done the sums on this one. He didn't become a multi-millionaire by building stuff in the knowledge it would cost more than he could recoup (in the long term!).
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£30 was an average, Kids would pay less. Either way.....

Merchandise = England's.

Hotel = Nice, but not nearly a cigar. See gate money.

Hopefully McCabe's done his homework. But I wonder how much is based on longer term income from conferencing. I also wonder how much is factored in from the extra revenue of 11,000 seats. You can play whatver tune you want with that, but if the reality is championship football, that#s 11,000 more empty seats.

It's difficult to judge. McCabe's own line was that it was dependant on premiership status. I hope he sticks to it. My concern is that Tevez / transfer cash is being used to pay for it. And most United fans have had enough of "jam tomorrow" stories.

UTB
 
Sothall_Blade said:
He didn't become a multi-millionaire by building stuff in the knowledge it would cost more than he could recoup (in the long term!).
Click to expand...

also, most millionaires didn't become so by running their core business in the way they run their football clubs. One way or another, the club is often the toy.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
£30 was an average, Kids would pay less. Either way.....

Merchandise = England's.

Hotel = Nice, but not nearly a cigar. See gate money.

Hopefully McCabe's done his homework. But I wonder how much is based on longer term income from conferencing. I also wonder how much is factored in from the extra revenue of 11,000 seats. You can play whatver tune you want with that, but if the reality is championship football, that#s 11,000 more empty seats.

It's difficult to judge. McCabe's own line was that it was dependant on premiership status. I hope he sticks to it. My concern is that Tevez / transfer cash is being used to pay for it. And most United fans have had enough of "jam tomorrow" stories.

UTB
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Good post.

There are huge misconceptions I think about the hotel and the office block. My understanding is we get circa £500k per annum from Copthorne - and I bet that is reliant on certain occupancy rates etc. It just is not a big money spinner. Where that income goes I have no idea.

I think Darlington wil be the best example of this, but these new seats will probably never have a paying SUFC customer's arse in them, ever.
 



lenners said:
But it's already split.
The hotel, enterprise centre, Chengdu and possibly one or two other bits and bobs are the club's, the rest is McCabe's anyway.
Click to expand...

Len - when you say the hotel is the club's are you saying the freehold is an asset in the books of SUFC Ltd?
 
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