More borrowing

[Snowflake]

Get promoted to the Premier League.
Sell our best players.
Spend (relatively) nowt.
On the verge of selling another of our main assets.
Borrow money at a high interest rate.

No one can justify this shitshow.

Seems to me like a proper way to run a business particularly one in the football world.
It might not be what some fans want, but I want my club to be around for the rest of my life, whichever division it may be in.
On that basis I can justify what is happening.

 

[tyke1889]

I do hope Maguire isn’t going around calling this a payday loan like he usually does. It isn’t. It’s factoring, or something akin to factoring, at the normal rates for such business.

Well, as he started off the tweet with a emoji, I guess that's what he's implying

 

[BarcaBlade]

Purely speculating but could be for the hotel which I know has been mentioned a few times pre-season about completing. Maybe he's opted for the loan so the pot for the JTW is untouched.

Does anyone know where this pot can be located?

 

[blade too long]

What a joke this owner is…..taking more high interest loans to basically allow him to kick the can down the road and to allow him to fund the clu

name any club in the prem that does not borrow against future income

man utd have 600m quid doing it this way

when any club comes up they dont give a club 150 m in a wheel barrow

 

[blade too long]

name any club in the prem that does not borrow against future income

The money game: debt financing in football

Financing the spending boom With the summer transfer window now open for both English Premier League (“EPL”) and English Football League (“EFL”) clubs, following on from a record-breaking winter transfer window in which EPL clubs alone spent £815m (almost four times the aggregate transfer...

www.farrer.co.uk

 

[S64 Blade]

We may actually be pressing ahead to get the academy to a cat 1 and that will need some serious investment.

A lot of things that's been strongly rumoured to be happening and that the club has publicly said it has an appetite for, would suggest that this is more of a possibility than it being to cover costs.

PA said in his interview with that Blades Ramble guy that something was nearing completion re. the training facilities. Bettis said in his interview in the summer that the club were in discussions about where a new facility could be, so it's definitely on the agenda and we'd need a pot of money to fund it. The Prince (even if he had the wealth) wouldn't be funding it, as he wants to sell, so it'd make more sense for it to be the club who borrows the capital required.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Does anyone know where this pot can be located?

It's the jar with 1p and 2p coins unfortunately as society moves more and more cashless even that jar is not really filling up

 

[Dougie]

And if we go down don’t we have a further 20 million to come back from Villa from Archer

No

 

[Bladezz]

Football finance 'expert' Kevin Maguire is reporting that we have taken out another 'loan' from Macquire secured in future PL revenue.

If we are selling Anel and also need this loan on top of PL revenue does that mean one of two things? Either we are planning significant expenditure or we r well and truly f'd and its to fill a hole between revenue and expenditure on an ongoing basis.

Let's hope it's tje former and means we are either going for it in the transfer market as we think Everton and Forest are getting points deductions. Alternatively it could be to finan e expenditure on the hotel/training ground/academy

We all know what’s happening don’t we?

We aren’t still unsure are we?

 

[Working Class Hero]

Borrowing against future income seems like a pretty standard thing for a business to do, and how the club manages their accounts is more detail than I care to think about as part of a hobby.

However, we must be one of the most profitable clubs in the country (which might not be much profit, such is the football world) in the last 5 years including this one. It's just massively disappointing that despite that, we are letting our best players leave and have had next to no investment in the infrastructure of the club. We may never have another period as lucrative as this one and certainly haven't had one before.

 

[relish]

Well, as he started off the tweet with a emoji, I guess that's what he's implying

That's because Macquarie's nickname is 'the vampire kangaroo'.

 

[dublin 10 blade]

No

Just double checked and apparently Villa insisted on a buy back clause , they wanted 20 million
We offered 18.5
We go down Villa buy him back

 

[dublin 10 blade]

For amortisation purposes the valuation was about £18m I think. United didn't have £18m to send to Villa, what they did have to send was the FFP space to help Villa avoid what has happened to Forest and Everton. Villa did a similar deal with Burnley for Ramsey

Just double checked about Archer deal mate
Villa wanted 20 million with a buy back
We gave them 18.5 with a buy back if we go down
And yes your right it is similar to Ramsey deal
And yes it is for FFP or whatever it’s called
But we will be getting something back if we go down
So we’re both right

 

[finlaytheblade]

Jjust what is on your genda
Bladezz ? It's a constant fueling of bitterness towards the Blades.
Please come clean you may get some understanding or grief! depending what it is !!!

We all know what’s happening don’t we?

We aren’t still unsure are we?

 

[Dougie]

But we will be getting something back if we go down

No we won't

 

[Rodley]

Just double checked and apparently Villa insisted on a buy back clause , they wanted 20 million
We offered 18.5
We go down Villa buy him back

I think we need one more significant sale on top of that Dub according to one of the interviews / presser with Bettis, whether Anel is sufficient quantum remains to be confirmed if a deal goes through.

I’m pretty relaxed against borrowing against future committed income, I’d imagine we’re generally a bit of a lumpy business in terms of cashflow. Understanding the intention behind it is more interesting; are we just covering costs, improving or investing in squad earlier than programme, or starting infrastructure projects?

 

[Snowflake]

Does anyone know where this pot can be located?

..at the end of a rainbow.

 

[Snowflake]

We all know what’s happening don’t we?

We aren’t still unsure are we?

Oh yes we are !!

 

[71Blade]

Despite all the criticism on here I actually think PA knows what he is doing, he has many advisors to help him (as wealthy people do)
so I think his decision making will be generally sound and based on good financial advice

hope he has recruited better advisors against the ones who advised him to by us in the first place?

 

[Tuns25]

Seems to me like a proper way to run a business particularly one in the football world.
It might not be what some fans want, but I want my club to be around for the rest of my life, whichever division it may be in.
On that basis I can justify what is happening.

I want my club to actually win something in my lifetime and not play fourth division football and celebrate making a profit each season. There's a difference between being reckless and making smart calculated gambles that pay off - succesful businesses do this and so can we. I'm in my sixth decade and I can't think of any big city clubs that have overspent and no longer exist though I stand to be corrected.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Just double checked about Archer deal mate
Villa wanted 20 million with a buy back
We gave them 18.5 with a buy back if we go down
And yes your right it is similar to Ramsey deal
And yes it is for FFP or whatever it’s called
But we will be getting something back if we go down
So we’re both right

Yep, I ballsed up when I wrote the first post. What I should have said is "we won't be getting any additional money to what we sent out". But like Balham Blade said, it'll make the books look about £4.5m better because of amortisation.

 

[Proper Blade]

The most important thing is that we make a profit every year. A huge one, ideally. If we can sell off more key players to make sure we do that then I'm all for it.

 

[Snowflake]

I want my club to actually win something in my lifetime and not play fourth division football and celebrate making a profit each season. There's a difference between being reckless and making smart calculated gambles that pay off - succesful businesses do this and so can we. I'm in my sixth decade and I can't think of any big city clubs that have overspent and no longer exist though I stand to be corrected.

I think what has happened in the past is no longer an indication of what is at present happening and will happen in the next 5 years. The financial position that Everton are in and may be in if 777 cannot proceed is precarious.
I don’t think we are in a position to gamble at all whether smart or otherwise. What is needed is a series of positive business decisions that move the club slowly forward.
Portsmouth is a big city club that didn’t make prudent decisions and look where they are now.See also Birmingham and possibly Norwich.

 

[Snowflake]

error

 

[dublin 10 blade]

I think we need one more significant sale on top of that Dub according to one of the interviews / presser with Bettis, whether Anel is sufficient quantum remains to be confirmed if a deal goes through.

I’m pretty relaxed against borrowing against future committed income, I’d imagine we’re generally a bit of a lumpy business in terms of cashflow. Understanding the intention behind it is more interesting; are we just covering costs, improving or investing in squad earlier than programme, or starting infrastructure projects?

Agree about sales Rodders , although compared to last time when most of our “ big “ money signings couldn’t kick snow off a rope I think we’re actually better positioned now
Anel = 200% profit at 12 million
Archer break even maybe
Hamer get back what we paid , possibly another 10 million if he picks up
Souza get back what we paid plus 5 million if he picks up
When you compare this to Brewster/ Mcburnie/Moose
So I’m ok with this loans thing , we now have assets worth something plus according to club , which is all we can go on debts are clear
Saying it here we’ll be back up in 2 seasons, like I predicted last time

 

[Sean Thornton]

Yep, I ballsed up when I wrote the first post. What I should have said is "we won't be getting any additional money to what we sent out". But like Balham Blade said, it'll make the books look about £4.5m better because of amortisation.

The amortisation figure is a paper figure though. It’s cash flow that is the issue.

 

[Carlton Blade]

United could gamble to the biggest degree possible. Borrow against all the capital assets, future PP's, this seasons money, next few years season ticket money and still only raise about £350m. I don't think people are celebrating balance sheets. Just being realistic that there's no amount of risk that could be taken that would get United anywhere near Brighton and Brentford never mind the teams who actually compete for trophies.

I'm not saying the club shouldn't spend the money it has. Just that there's no path to real contention

You want to see United win something, unless you mean L1 or the Championship then chances are, you aren't going to enjoy supporting the club

 

[Carlton Blade]

The amortisation figure is a paper figure though. It’s cash flow that is the issue.

I know. I was talking about the cash flow when I made the other posts. Archer going is cash neutral (most likely). The amortisation thing is a fringe benefit

 

[Rodley]

Agree about sales Rodders , although compared to last time when most of our “ big “ money signings couldn’t kick snow off a rope I think we’re actually better positioned now
Anel = 200% profit at 12 million
Archer break even maybe
Hamer get back what we paid , possibly another 10 million if he picks up
Souza get back what we paid plus 5 million if he picks up
When you compare this to Brewster/ Mcburnie/Moose
So I’m ok with this loans thing , we now have assets worth something plus according to club , which is all we can go on debts are clear
Saying it here we’ll be back up in 2 seasons, like I predicted last time

I’m not sure I’d pay now what we paid for Hamer 5 months ago. Souza has picked up and has the physicality, if he continues to improve under CW I think we’d probably get interest in him.

 

[Bladezz]

Jjust what is on your genda
Bladezz ? It's a constant fueling of bitterness towards the Blades.
Please come clean you may get some understanding or grief! depending what it is !!!

This is the problem. We are being asset stripped infront of our eyes.

Yet I’m the bad guy.