Monty to Leeds??

[The One]

Yay did it win us the game?

No but did the 5 other attack minded players?

 

[Sensiblade]

Yay did it win us the game?

did it lose us the game?

 

[keenzy]

So if we don't agree with 'The One' then we should not put forward our opinion?
That makes for a great forum and debate.Each thread has three or four posts only if they disagree.

Grow up and put forward your reasons for championing Monty don't keep telling his detractors to 'Button Up':thumbdown:

There is having a debate and there is talking absolute shite, and upon reading your posts about monty, they seem to be the latter.

 

[keenzy]

Yay did it win us the game?

Have you actually played a game of football in your life?

 

[Bladesman]

Have you actually played a game of football in your life?

Yes I have.

Thanks for asking.

 

[keenzy]

Yes I have.

Thanks for asking.

And what position would that be?

 

[Fiery Blade]

There is having a debate and there is talking absolute shite, and upon reading your posts about monty, they seem to be the latter.

I'm so so sorry that my opinion differs to yours and as god of football how dare anyone have a differing opinion.
If your ideal midfielder is Monty fine, you're entilted to it however in my opinion:
His passing is extremely poor and generally gives away the ball in the majority of times
His tackling lacks finesse and sometimes timing often giving away freekicks to the opposition in dangerous areas of the field.
His vision and anticipation is often lacking when the 2nd ball needs to be played
He very rarely completes dangerous crosses to put in the strikers
He lacks pace
His shooting at goal is woeful
He doesn't score many goals
He is a 100% tryer who will give his all for the club and if neccessary run through brickwalls for the cause
I would assess that as a fair reflection of Monty (in my opinion) and feel that he would be extremely useful as a squad player when his attributes are needed - no more no less

I am extremely sorry that I have a differing opinion from you and have the audacity to post in on the forum - would you prefer to proof read every bp[ost before I submit it

 

[TonyAgana]

I would assess that as a fair reflection of Monty (in my opinion) and feel that he would be extremely useful as a squad player when his attributes are needed - no more no less

No, that isn't a fair reflection at all! At least try and disguise it as one with a couple of positives!

 

[Fiery Blade]

No, that isn't a fair reflection at all! At least try and disguise it as one with a couple of positives!

Could you please advise me where I have made any mistakes in my list
Its not about positives or negatives its about opinions!
The list includes both positives and negatives unfortunately as we go down the league ladder the players do not have as many positives or more negatives than the players in the Premier League
ie Steve Gerrard can control a ball and pass to a player on his own side 99% of the time Monty can't - its not being negative but truthful Sorry if it offends!

 

[Robbie]

Come on then Fiery, I'm happy to debate with you.

His passing is extremely poor and generally gives away the ball in the majority of times

Majority? I find your view on this misguided. In fact I would bet that hazard has one of the higher pass completion of the team.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong though.

His tackling lacks finesse and sometimes timing often giving away freekicks to the opposition in dangerous areas of the field.

I agree, sometimes the challenges he makes are mis-timed. The majority of these though are when we are being broke by the other team. This stops the play and allows us to gain our positional awareness. It's playing the odds and works well.

His vision and anticipation is often lacking when the 2nd ball needs to be played

I think Monty has good vision, if you look at some of the runs he makes - they draw the opposition away, which helps the team. On the whole we don't utilise this option of his good positioning - whether that is because they don't trust Monty enough is another matter

He very rarely completes dangerous crosses to put in the strikers

I seem to recall a stat of him being our second highest assister in the Premiership, not 100% on this - perhaps someone could clarify.

Also..... how many crosses do centre midfielders normally make? Surely this is a wingers/full backs job.

He lacks pace

Granted, but not relevant.

His shooting at goal is woeful

I wouldn't say this is the case. For me he doesn't shoot enough. I think a lot of the time he has the opportunity to shoot he decides against it so he doesn't get a barrage of abuse from the fans if it does go wayward.

He doesn't score many goals

I'll give you this again, but again it's not a vital point and not the making of his role in the team.

He is a 100% tryer who will give his all for the club and if neccessary run through brickwalls for the cause

Granted, we could do with some more people like this.

I have seen quotes on Evans that he is crap and lazy but they would accept him being crap if he put a shift in......

I am extremely sorry that I have a differing opinion from you and have the audacity to post in on the forum

Whilst I don't agree with your views on Monty, I support this statement

ie Steve Gerrard can control a ball and pass to a player on his own side 99% of the time

I would hazard stats don't reflect your statement here.....

 

[TonyAgana]

Could you please advise me where I have made any mistakes in my list
Its not about positives or negatives its about opinions!
The list includes both positives and negatives unfortunately as we go down the league ladder the players do not have as many positives or more negatives than the players in the Premier League
ie Steve Gerrard can control a ball and pass to a player on his own side 99% of the time Monty can't - its not being negative but truthful Sorry if it offends!

What I'm disagreeing with you about is that your list of Montgomery's failings is not a "fair reflection". Reflecting on a footballer's abilities should include pros as well as cons.

Saying I'm short, slightly overweight and rubbish at Spanish is accurate but not a "fair reflection".

And why do you think you've offended me?

 

[Grecian2000]

Saying I'm short, slightly overweight and rubbish at Spanish is accurate but not a "fair reflection".

It is if you're a gigalo in Madrid.

 

[Linz]

Gentlemen.

Can we all take a dose of "chill the buggery out" please?

There are some very good points raised in this thread. But some people appear to be muddling up the subjective with the objective and getting the mardies on when others disagree.

Less of the "button it". Less of the posting of pure opinion as "fact".

As you were...

 

[TonyAgana]

It is if you're a gigalo in Madrid.

Not if the "reflection" omited the fact that I have a schlong like a spitfire's prop shaft.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Hi Tony and Robbie,

In reply whilst I applaud your defence of Monty there is a difference of squad player and first on the team sheet / player of the decade!
Yes, if pressed to list Monty attributes I would include:
100% Tryer
Reasonable man to man marker
Always in the oppositions face
Brave
Totally committed to the Blades
Loyal
Honest
These are first class attributes and many of these cannot descibe other probably more gifted members of the squad.
Unfortunately, in my opinion what Monty displays in heart and guts cannot be matched in skill, talent, ability and vision and because of that in my book will only ever be a squad player.
To try and disguise his shortcomings as designed to upset opponents and that his teamates don't trust him is doing him a disservice !

 

[TonyAgana]

No need to applaud my defence (or resort to sarcasm - I'm not sure if that's what that was). I wasn't defending him at all, just what is or isn't a fair reflection. In fact, I was a big Monty knocker until quite recently.

Thanks for the update, though.

 

[chrisyb99]

monty for prime minister...........end of!

 

[keenzy]

monty for prime minister...........end of!

Passing it on from one Scot to another..... Dear GOD!!!!

 

[Pinchy]

Come on then Fiery, I'm happy to debate with you.



Majority? I find your view on this misguided. In fact I would bet that hazard has one of the higher pass completion of the team.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong though

I agree, sometimes the challenges he makes are mis-timed. The majority of these though are when we are being broke by the other team. This stops the play and allows us to gain our
positional awareness. It's playing the odds and works well.


I think Monty has good vision, if you look at some of the runs he makes - they draw the opposition away, which helps the team. On the whole we don't utilise this option of his good positioning - whether that is because they don't trust Monty enough is another matte


I seem to recall a stat of him being our second highest assister in the Premiership, not 100% on this - perhaps someone could clarify.

Also..... how many crosses do centre midfielders normally make? Surely this is a wingers/full backs job.



Granted, but not relevant.

I wouldn't say this is the case. For me he doesn't shoot enough. I think a lot of the time he has the opportunity to shoot he decides against it so he doesn't get a barrage of abuse from the fans if it does go wayward.

I'll give you this again, but again it's not a vital point and not the making of his role in the tea


Granted, we could do with some more people like

I have seen quotes on Evans that he is crap and lazy but they would accept him being crap if he put a shift in......



Whilst I don't agree with your views on Monty, I support this statement



I would hazard stats don't reflect your statement here.....

Another naive, misguided load of rubbish. You, just like Ploddy's other admirers, create a job description for him which just happens to include his one or two attributes and nothing more hence pace is irrelevant! Why? Because Ploddy hasn't got any?

The hilarity really kicks in with the idea that, contrary to the overwhelming evidence of our eyes, his passing is actually quite good!

Then this classic: There we all are thinking Monty's shooting is so bad that he would only score if the goalframes were as wide as the corner posts and as high as the roof of the stand. How wrong could we be!! The truth is HE DOESN'T SHOOT ENOUGH!!

And there's more - it's all our fault for daring to doubt the maestro.

Young Robbie, you and others are a dream come true for the SUFC management - What do we want? - Mediocrity! When do we want it? - Now and for ever!

Maybe when you've got a bit more wool on your back you'll have seen a lot more footballers - good and bad - and, which is more, you'll know the difference.

Still, for now you've got Monty; you deserve Monty. His sublime skills will delight you for years to come. Beware though, because as Foxy will tell you, the Premiership clubs are forming a queue as we speak.

 

[Sensiblade]

Another naive, misguided load of rubbish. You, just like Ploddy's other admirers, create a job description for him which just happens to include his one or two attributes and nothing more hence pace is irrelevant! Why? Because Ploddy hasn't got any?

The hilarity really kicks in with the idea that, contrary to the overwhelming evidence of our eyes, his passing is actually quite good!

Then this classic: There we all are thinking Monty's shooting is so bad that he would only score if the goalframes were as wide as the corner posts and as high as the roof of the stand. How wrong could we be!! The truth is HE DOESN'T SHOOT ENOUGH!!

And there's more - it's all our fault for daring to doubt the maestro.

Young Brownie, you and others are a dream come true for the SUFC management - What do we want? - Mediocrity! When do we want it? - Now and for ever!

Maybe when you've got a bit more wool on your back you'll have seen a lot more footballers - good and bad - and, which is more, you'll know the difference.

Still, for now you've got Monty; you deserve Monty. His sublime skills will delight you for years to come. Beware though, because as Foxy will tell you, the Premiership clubs are
forming a queue as we speak.

I think Robbie's reply to Fiery is one of the best thought out posts on the subject I've seen in a long time and you seem to have dismissed it without actually reading it, but quoting it in your post.

All the points Robbie makes are fair and not biased to either side of the argument, they just point out what I see as pretty obvious things.

I know you don't like Monty as a player and if someone say's a positive thing about him you seem to have to say a negative.

You see the game one way, other see it different, that's life.

 

[keenzy]

Monty Marmite.

 

[Pinchy]

I read it; I dismissed it.

Yet another Ploddyphile who seems to think only his deluded army of admirers should be heard.

Of course I'm going to respond with a contrary view when someone asserts 'positives' about Ploddy because they are all different ways of saying he is committed, fit and tries hard with a 'never say die' attitude. The problem is, these attributes apply equally to firefighters, rockclimbers and deep sea divers. They are not exclusive to football. The ones that are - Ploddy lacks.

He doesn't actually do this curious 'job' that you lot have specifically designed for him very well either. His tackling seldom wins the ball - it usually results in either a free-kick or throw-in to the opposition.

No amount of sophistry or wishful thinking is going to make him a good passer and his shooting, well....

Does anyone, taking the 'We love mediocre triers' badge off for a second, disagree that we played our best recent football against Palace? Be honest, then reflect for a moment. Reflect a little further as to how often we are completely outpassed, outplayed and outclassed in midfield by pretty average teams. Then think again about your unlikely hero.

 

[shorehamview]

Not if the "reflection" omited the fact that I have a schlong like a spitfire's prop shaft.

So that's why they call you "Airfix" then........

 

[Come from away]

Love the fact that fans called for Monty to shoot (30 yds out) just before he made a pass which then led to the goal at QPR. Some folks like Monty

 

[keenzy]

Why is monty even be picked up on his shooting???
He's the holding midfielder. Harper or Quinn are the pressing one's yet neight make 2 yards of space that monty does. Only williamson looks the one with an attacking mind and he's been on the crocked list

 

[Come from away]

When he was 40 yds out they still yelled for him to shoot!!!

 

[Foxy]

Still, for now you've got Monty; you deserve Monty. His sublime skills will delight you for years to come. Beware though, because as Foxy will tell you, the Premiership clubs are forming a queue as we speak.

You can be as sarcastic and as condescending as you like, what I said happened, happened. If you wish to mock me for letting you know, suit yourself, I'll save face and keep what I'm told to myself in future.

Clearly you know more than the recent ex-manager of the worlds richest club and a few of his old opposite numbers.

Not got a problem with anyone having a different opinion, I struggle with people ignoring certain facts though... You might think his passing is crap, that his control is crap, that he makes the wrong decisions, but you cant argue with things like pass completion... pass completion is not an opinion, it is a fact.

Like I said before, I'd drop Monty like a shot if we had a better defensive midfielder (who?!) and I'd also drop him for an on form pairing of Harper and Willo at home, but that isn't the case at the moment.

Still, thinking that means that the club I love can't progress, I'm holding us back.... Apparently.

 

[jim]

monty cant be as bad as everyone makes him out to be. he has been a regular in the team for years now and we havent done too bad. im guessing here but im sure he was one of the most played players the year we went up and the year we were in the premierleague. so he cant be that bad of a player to be in a promotion winning team

 

[Robbie]

I'm here till 2 .......

Another naive, misguided load of rubbish. .

Just because you don't agree, lets not dismiss it as rubbish please.
Just because you believe you're right - doesn't mean you are.
Same as, just because I believe I am right doesn't mean I am (although I am)

You, just like Ploddy's other admirers, create a job description for him which just happens to include his one or two attributes and nothing more hence pace is irrelevant! Why?

We created a job description for him? I'd agree the defensive midfielder wasn't really a known position in a team over the years - however would you argue that it is not an important position?

The pace is irrelevant, some of the best footballers around have had no pace (although I'm not trying to put Monty in this category).

The hilarity really kicks in with the idea that, contrary to the overwhelming evidence of our eyes, his passing is actually quite good!

Show me some stats of the players in our team and their pass completion percentage. Unless you do this then I won't discuss this further, because we will basically be arguing over opinion.

Then this classic: There we all are thinking Monty's shooting is so bad that he would only score if the goalframes were as wide as the corner posts and as high as the roof of the stand. How wrong could we be!! The truth is HE DOESN'T SHOOT ENOUGH!!

Is that the case? Are you saying the goals (yes I know a small amount) he scored didn't go in?

Are you saying the 30 yard shot a couple of weeks back which hit the post wasn't a decent shot?

I'm not saying he has the best shot, or even a good one. But he should be having pot shots at the goal - but he seems frightened to do so because of people like yourself getting on his back for not being Ronaldo.

Young Robbie, you and others are a dream come true for the SUFC management - What do we want? - Mediocrity! When do we want it? - Now and for ever!

I've never once said Monty is what I want, I'm merely pointing out that he isn't this Sunday league player people make him out to be.

Would I rather have Essien in the squad? You betcha.... Are we in such a position to get a player of his calibre? No chance.

Maybe when you've got a bit more wool on your back you'll have seen a lot more footballers - good and bad - and, which is more, you'll know the difference.

Another dig at my age? I think you're being naive yourself if you think my age means my opinion is any less relevant or right than yourself.

In fact, in my generation - (I'm 26 btw so no spring chicken) we have seen more technical player than ever before. Yes there has been great players in the past, but the calibre of player and fitness levels and skill involved now is more so than ever before.

It's a sad case of an argument when you try belittling the other poster because of their age because you can't come up with a decent response.

Still, for now you've got Monty; you deserve Monty. His sublime skills will delight you for years to come. Beware though, because as Foxy will tell you, the Premiership clubs are forming a queue as we speak.

3 managers in a row have played Monty consistently. So why would it be so bizarre that other managers would be interested in him?

Yet another Ploddyphile who seems to think only his deluded army of admirers should be heard.

Yawn

He doesn't actually do this curious 'job' that you lot have specifically designed for him very well either. His tackling seldom wins the ball - it usually results in either a free-kick or throw-in to the opposition.

It's called breaking up the play.

Does anyone, taking the 'We love mediocre triers' badge off for a second, disagree that we played our best recent football against Palace? Be honest, then reflect for a moment.

I'd say the best football we have played over the last season was both games versus PNE in the play offs..... can you guess who was in midfield then?

I'll counter your question though.... taking your 'we love knocking monty' badge off for a second, do of any of your disagree that we gain more points with Monty in the squad?

Then think again about your unlikely hero.

I love how the Monty knockers claim that Monty is our 'hero'.

I must stipulate, I don't think he is the messiah, I don't think he is an amazing player. I think he is a good player who does what we require of him. If we had someone more worthy of a position in the squad I'd be happy for him to be dropped. But for the time being, he is an integral part of the team - and I have no concerns about this because he will always doa good job for us.

 

[Robbie]

I've had a quick browse to see if I could find a pass percentage, saldy I couldn't.

HOWEVER, this link is 'interesting'

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=4751&cc=5739

It shows from 18 games, Monty has commited 37 fouls (approx 2 per game which I don't think is actually bad for a tackling midfielder) and 30 fouls commited on him - which lets face it is a relatively high number.

It also shows he has only had 8 shots at goal this season (3 of these being on target) which I think supports my case that he should shoot more.