Midfield Workhorses. A Love Hate Relationship

[cooperblade]

Hammond has two major problems. One has been covered in depth - he can't run. He can't cover ground and he's probably the slowest I've ever seen over 5-10 yards.

The other is that he's the king of the overly-cautious pass in a team full of players who nearly always look for the safest pass available. Everything is the way he's facing, it's usually sideways or backwards and it generally slows us down (which is some feat in a team who play at a very pedestrian tempo). Whiteman played more forward passes (not all of them good ones granted) in 10 minutes than Hammond does in 10 games.

Hammond exacerbates our many problems through the way he plays. He's also not very good technically and is prone to giving away dangerous free kicks. Needs to go.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Good post.

I'm undecided on Hammond but I thought we almost totally capitulated when he left the pitch yesterday. Otoh when he was on the pitch he played passes behind players and lost possession when there was no need. Can we do better for the money? I'd like to think so, but we'd need the complete package of professionalism, organising, and playing ability - so it would have to be someone with a ton of experience. Not cheap. It's liking hiring a consultant.

An important part of Adkins thinking is the professionalism Hammond brings to the dressing room. If he is such a good role model then this can only positively affect the young players who are key to the way he sees the club developing. Done well it would be hard to overestimate the importance of that role - but it doesn't follow that he has to be on the pitch.

That said though if we were once again dropping back to 5-3-2, and that was a major the cause of problems second half then maybe Hammond would be the one on the pitch organising us back to a higher 3-5-2. It's like when Keane was SAF's lieutenant.

If a manager with Adkins' credentials says Hammond does unseen work and then some "fans" on tintermet start/carry on spitting their dummies bc their profound understanding of the game has been challenged, then I'll go with the manager.

A good example of this unseen work would be tracking the run of the scorer of their second goal. Reed let him wander past, Hammond (and tbf plenty of others) wouldn't've let that happen. It's possible he does a ton of work like this. Flynn mentioned Hammond a couple of weeks ago as doing a lot of his dirty work enabling him to get forward more. Istm we also need someone to carry Coutts defensively. Maybe he does this too. If he's single-handedly carrying the world of the midfield then he's allowed the odd misplaced pass.

If someone can analyse his total performance and point out shortcomings, suggest alternatives, and generally be constructive - rather than just shout abuse - then that'd be worth considering, but for now I'm a Don't Know.



Btw Doyle is captain at Portsmouth and got this review recently:

“Sheffield United Must have some team not to want to keep Doyle, Davies or Mcnulty there. Their loss is our gain though so to speak. All three have been and [are] going to be so important in the next couple of months.”

The thing is what I think gets us fans backs up is the weekly wage the guy is supposed to be on ( we all best guess and could be way off the mark ) , see him having shortcomings on the pitch , wrong side of 30 , and to top it all we can afford to bring this bloke in but work hard in every transfer window and fail .

It's the unbalance of things both on and off the pitch , with Hammond getting the rap. Bear in mind the players around him do not help him , and sometimes put him in a compromising position , he looks a bad player .

Player coach on a lot less wage would be acceptable , but as many have said , his legs have gone , and to play that position you have to be mobile.

The guy is not for me only because we could get someone better and cheaper if we bothered to look . Adkins needed Hammond this season to sort out the dressing room . Daft as it seems , due to the dross and attitudes , could we have finished up in a relegation battle if Hammond wasn't here . We nearly did .

UTB

 

[diplomat]

even this season N'Golo Kantè at Leicester has been a joy to watch.

Kante has an unbelievable engine which enables him to track people, get tackles in, steal interceptions and bomb forward in support. Even dropping a couple of levels we're not even close to having that kind of mobility.

 

[Latters]

I'm leaving this thread now, purely because of how annoying it is when you continually say "good post" purely because someone agrees with you and that fans who don't rate Hammond are "fans".

It's the acronyms and shortening of works that he makes up that gomt (get on my tits). We've managed to keep text talk off here for long enough. If you can't be arsed to write real words, don't bother posting please.

 

[wardonia_blade]

Thanks for your responses to my post. I am not a Hammond fan and certainly would not sign him.

However the Wardonia crystal ball is now in 2018-19 and showing my walk back to the station with jubilant Forest Green fans talking about their greatest ever win and surprised to pick up all 3 points after being 4 down in the 80th minute. It is also showing the platform 1 regulars, one saying we need someone like Hammond and his mate replying that he put in a lot of unseen work you know.

 

[super_pig]

Dean Hammond attracts many opinions on this site and in other media. Very few are complimentary.
The basic scenario put forward is that the manager picks this player every week, the player is useless, the manager defends his choice to the hilt therefore the manager is an idiot to be replaced.
The same was written / said about Michael Doyle. And Nick Montgomery, And Mikele Leigertwood. Similarly Bob Booker, Simon Webster, Paul Rogers, John Gannon, Charlie Hartfield.
Mick Speight’s every touch was booed in games during 1975-6 and, in my early days, harshest of all, I remember a cry of Get Off (Barry) Wagstaff, harsh because there were no substitutes in those days.
Eventually though the efforts of these players becomes recognised. Speight is now a Blades legend and the perceived wisdom is that Boxing Day wouldn’t have happened if he had stayed on. Booker is a cult figure. Recent posts re-evaluate the contribution of Doyle kindly and yesterday on the station platform, the inspiration for this post, I heard that what we are lacking is a Nick Montgomery.
I am not a superior fan. I too have / had my reservations about all these players. I even thought the late, great Trevor Hockey was crap at the time.
However, I am now giving consideration to the idea recently put forward by Nigel Adkins that we perhaps don’t fully appreciate the role of the midfield workhorse. Perhaps our memories are too full of the generational Hagan, Currie, Hodges and Brown.
History seems to suggest that Nigel has a point.

Monty, Hammond and Doyle aren't fit to lace Mick Speight's boots.. Hammond doesn't do anything. he just saunters around. How come other teams don't use this mythical invisible defensive midfielder?? it's patronising to suggest that we are too thick to understand this position. it is only for footballing intellectuals.. we understand the position. we also understand hammond is crap at it and so were monty and doyle.

 

[Roygbiv]

Why Hammond is being discussed in so much detail is because he's on big wages and we don't actually own him. We have an option where he wont be here next season. People are worried that we will end up owning him permanently and will have to pay his big wages which will impact strengthening elsewhere

I feel sorry for him because I think he does try but he is symbolic of all our terrible mistakes since being relegated to this league. He will be on bigger wages than 90% of the players running past him and there are simply better players out there we could afford. Signing him would show we have learnt nothing from past mistakes so I fully expect him to sign

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Player coach on a lot less wage would be acceptable

I reckon that is going to be the plan. Am I right in thinking we haven't announced a permanent replacement for Morgs as U21 coach? Surely not a coincidence...

Adkins doesn't necessarily help his case when he's been questioned about Hammond in the past. Rather than saying "he does a lot of unseen work" it would be better if he articulated what exactly that is. Otherwise, people like myself continue not to see it.

 

[bladesmanluke]

Both Doyle and Montgomery looked like Xavi compared to Dean Hammond

 

[Latters]

Why Hammond is being discussed in so much detail is because he's on big wages and we don't actually own him. We have an option where he wont be here next season. People are worried that we will end up owning him permanently and will have to pay his big wages which will impact strengthening elsewhere

I feel sorry for him because I think he does try but he is symbolic of all our terrible mistakes since being relegated to this league. He will be on bigger wages than 90% of the players running past him and there are simply better players out there we could afford. Signing him would show we have learnt nothing from past mistakes so I fully expect him to sign

I don't care in the slightest what wage he's on. I've said on another post, he could be paying us to play him and he'd still be a bad signing.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I reckon that is going to be the plan. Am I right in thinking we haven't announced a permanent replacement for Morgs as U21 coach? Surely not a coincidence...

Adkins doesn't necessarily help his case when he's been questioned about Hammond in the past. Rather than saying "he does a lot of unseen work" it would be better if he articulated what exactly that is. Otherwise, people like myself continue not to see it.

Agree with this. Whenever Adkins does let on about tactics, eg yesterday, it's often an eye-opener - to me at least.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

It's the acronyms and shortening of works that he makes up that gomt (get on my tits). We've managed to keep text talk off here for long enough. If you can't be arsed to write real words, don't bother posting please.

works -> words

Couldn't be arsed?

FFS

 

[Linz]

The other is that he's the king of the overly-cautious pass in a team full of players who nearly always look for the safest pass available. Everything is the way he's facing, it's usually sideways or backwards and it generally slows us down (which is some feat in a team who play at a very pedestrian tempo). Whiteman played more forward passes (not all of them good ones granted) in 10 minutes than Hammond does in 10 games.

There were so many times in the first half yesterday where either Brayford or Done were available at either side but Hammond laboured on the ball.

And how many times was the ball played behind Done? Even the one they cheered only reached Done because he'd checked his run...it certainly wasn't going to be played for him to run on to at his normal pace.

 

[Latters]

works -> words

Couldn't be arsed?

FFS

Good post, thank you. In correcting my (purely accidental) typing error you have shown you understood what was meant in my post. This isn't always the case when a post is littered with lazy contractions and acronyms that aren't in regular use in the English language.

 

[wizadry]

Good post, thank you. In correcting my (purely accidental) typing error you have shown you understood what was meant in my post. This isn't always the case when a post is littered with lazy contractions and acronyms that aren't in regular use in the English language.

You want to think yourself lucky you get a response from lord foulkes, or is that unlucky?

 

[robbiez666]

I think the issue with Hammond is twofold.

1. Firstly, his legs have gone

2. He's not really the same player as Monty or Doyle. His game isn't geared to simply braking up play. He's not had the kind of engine needed to do the job of two players.

 

[Latters]

You want to think yourself lucky you get a response from lord foulkes, or is that unlucky?

You know me Wiz. Friend of the people. They're missing out if they've got me on ignore.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Good post, thank you. In correcting my (purely accidental) typing error you have shown you understood what was meant in my post. This isn't always the case when a post is littered with lazy contractions and acronyms that aren't in regular use in the English language.

I think you mean abbreviations

Fwiw the contractions are not lazy - I find them interesting. This lazy accusation is often lazily - and presumptuously - repeated.

If you don't already know you might be interested in the descriptivism v prescriptivism. For me: "A prescriptivist is just a descriptivist with an ego."

http://english.blogoverflow.com/2012/10/prescriptivism-and-descriptivism/

Also you could argue that not being arsed to read for typos is lazy etc etc etc ad nauseam.

Anyway this is a forum about the Mighty Blades - not about the posters on that forum.

 

[Latters]

I think you mean abbreviations

Fwiw the contractions are not lazy - I find them interesting. This lazy accusation is often lazily - and presumptuously - repeated.

If you don't already know you might be interested in the descriptivism v prescriptivism. For me: "A prescriptivist is just a descriptivist with an ego."

http://english.blogoverflow.com/2012/10/prescriptivism-and-descriptivism/

Also you could argue that not being arsed to read for typos is lazy etc etc etc ad nauseam.

Anyway this is a forum about the Mighty Blades - not about the posters on that forum.

Acronym will do nicely thank you. Although abbreviation could also apply; that I will grant you.

Anyway, as you wish. Back on topic, Hammond is as much a clothes horse as a work horse. He doesn't work anything like hard enough to overcome his inadequacies. Awareness and technique are two of his major flaws. I feel it is too late in the day for him to work hard on improving these to an acceptable level for what we need.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Acronym will do nicely thank you. Although abbreviation could also apply; that I will grant you.

Anyway, as you wish. Back on topic, Hammond is as much a clothes horse as a work horse. He doesn't work anything like hard enough to overcome his inadequacies. Awareness and technique are two of his major flaws. I feel it is too late in the day for him to work hard on improving these to an acceptable level for what we need.

Fwiw: Whereas an abbreviation may be any type of shortened form, such as words with the middle omitted (for example, Rd for road or Dr for Doctor), an acronym is a word formed from the first letter or first few letters of each word in a phrase (such as sonar, created from sound navigation and ranging).

Hammond might even be a hobby horse - can't work out whether that's better or worse than a scapegoat.

I trust Adkins' judgement. That trust might be tested if Hammond lines up as part of our midfield first game next season - unless, maybe, he's marshalling young troops around him

 

[Latters]

Fwiw: Whereas an abbreviation may be any type of shortened form, such as words with the middle omitted (for example, Rd for road or Dr for Doctor), an acronym is a word formed from the first letter or first few letters of each word in a phrase (such as sonar, created from sound navigation and ranging).

Hammond might even be a hobby horse - can't work out whether that's better or worse than a scapegoat.

I trust Adkins' judgement. That trust might be tested if Hammond lines up as part of our midfield first game next season - unless, maybe, he's marshalling young troops around him

Unfortunately, I think the only marshalling he is likely to do would involve shouting "Oi you! Go and run over there where I should be" such will his immobility be by next season. At least in not wanting him here next season we seem to have found one thing that unites the fans.

 

[Finnieston]

Many players used to try and rile Trevor Hockey up or foul him. He was an unfashionable ball winner who just worked in a certain area of the pitch,scrapped for everything foul or no foul and was fearless. Players like Tc and the like wouldnt have been able to perform like they did without them.
Can you imagine TC running box to box for 90 mins.
Its horses for courses. Let people do the job that suits them for the team.
Or should we play Reed and Flynn etc as our ball winners.
They wouldnt last five minutes.... Then we could really Boo them.
Do youngsters like Reed the power of good...........Just saying thats all........Hopefully a good post.

 

[Jostein's Bandage]

I always liked John Gannon and Paul Rogers. I thought they did a really good job for us. And Charlie Hartfield was ok. Booker started off poorly, but improved after that. Monty was decent for a while, but by the end he was past his sell by date. Doyle was never anything but ordinary. Hammond is past it, not sure i see the comparison with anybody you mentioned. He's old, he's slower than hell and he's only going one way. Retirement.

 

[shorehamview]

I think the issue with Hammond is twofold.

1. Firstly, his legs have gone

2. He's not really the same player as Monty or Doyle. His game isn't geared to simply braking up play. He's not had the kind of engine needed to do the job of two players.

It's onefold. He's fucking rubbish.

 

[BeatleBlade]

Wasn't the second goal the fault of the player who replaced him?
Don't want to seem like I'm slagging off Reed as his pass for the third was immense and young players are going to make a few more mistakes. Still, haven't we conceded more goals late on when Hammond has been taken off? Just wondering if maybe he does stuff that goes unnoticed.

 

[Finnieston]

I always liked John Gannon and Paul Rogers. I thought they did a really good job for us. And Charlie Hartfield was ok. Booker started off poorly, but improved after that. Monty was decent for a while, but by the end he was past his sell by date. Doyle was never anything but ordinary. Hammond is past it, not sure i see the comparison with anybody you mentioned. He's old, he's slower than hell and he's only going one way. Retirement.

You cant compare anyone.Every player is different.
Same as no two games are alike.
How did the midfield cope when he went off?
Most games are watched from an elevated position . When you are playing a match i assume you know that your views of seeing players on the field are much more restricted. So there again no comparison.
No player from the premiership irrespective of age becomes a bad player overnight. I personally would sign Hammond and build a side around him, and perhaps find another person to boo.

And believe me they Will find someone else.

 

[Woodwardfan]

You cant compare anyone.Every player is different.
Same as no two games are alike.
How did the midfield cope when he went off?
Most games are watched from an elevated position . When you are playing a match i assume you know that your views of seeing players on the field are much more restricted. So there again no comparison.
No player from the premiership irrespective of age becomes a bad player overnight. I personally would sign Hammond and build a side around him, and perhaps find another person to boo.

And believe me they Will find someone else.

Midfields have to have a balance of players. Hammond would be fine playing with Deli Alli and Henderson in the central three with Wellbeck on the left and Lallana roving No.10 role, Clyne and Rose bombing up the wing at every opportunity and Kane up front. He'd have nothing like the pressure he has playing alongside Coutts and Flynn etc. He'd be fine.

Midfields are about blends of players and partnerships within the team. We are short of central midfielders, in fact, apart from Hammond ,our only two that I know of came on as subs yesterday.

Baxter, Scougall, Basham, Woolford,Edgar!!, Cuvelier ( not anywhere near match fit) have all failed in that area this season.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

You cant compare anyone.Every player is different.
Same as no two games are alike.
How did the midfield cope when he went off?
Most games are watched from an elevated position . When you are playing a match i assume you know that your views of seeing players on the field are much more restricted. So there again no comparison.
No player from the premiership irrespective of age becomes a bad player overnight. I personally would sign Hammond and build a side around him, and perhaps find another person to boo.

And believe me they Will find someone else.

Your evidence for this being?

 

[Finnieston]

The beauty about football is that you evidence never comes into it.
You sit next to someone at a match . Talk about it afterwards and you sometimes think youve both been to a totally different match.
Some on here actually have not been to the match at all but still seem to know more about it than the people that have. Now thats skill.

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

Whilst I'm not in any way a massive fan of Hammond, can I point out that he went off when we were winning vs. Crewe. Ten minutes later, it was 2-2. The game changed notably when he went off though I cannot explain why!