Midfield Workhorses. A Love Hate Relationship

[wardonia_blade]

Dean Hammond attracts many opinions on this site and in other media. Very few are complimentary.
The basic scenario put forward is that the manager picks this player every week, the player is useless, the manager defends his choice to the hilt therefore the manager is an idiot to be replaced.
The same was written / said about Michael Doyle. And Nick Montgomery, And Mikele Leigertwood. Similarly Bob Booker, Simon Webster, Paul Rogers, John Gannon, Charlie Hartfield.
Mick Speight’s every touch was booed in games during 1975-6 and, in my early days, harshest of all, I remember a cry of Get Off (Barry) Wagstaff, harsh because there were no substitutes in those days.
Eventually though the efforts of these players becomes recognised. Speight is now a Blades legend and the perceived wisdom is that Boxing Day wouldn’t have happened if he had stayed on. Booker is a cult figure. Recent posts re-evaluate the contribution of Doyle kindly and yesterday on the station platform, the inspiration for this post, I heard that what we are lacking is a Nick Montgomery.
I am not a superior fan. I too have / had my reservations about all these players. I even thought the late, great Trevor Hockey was crap at the time.
However, I am now giving consideration to the idea recently put forward by Nigel Adkins that we perhaps don’t fully appreciate the role of the midfield workhorse. Perhaps our memories are too full of the generational Hagan, Currie, Hodges and Brown.
History seems to suggest that Nigel has a point.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

Montgomery and Doyle were two of my favourite players to pull on a red and white shirt along with Cresswell.

Hammond is one of my least favourites. The role is very important in any team, he just plays it dreadfully because his legs have gone.

 

[sheffielder]

Are you saying Hammond is a midfield workhorse?

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

You've got a good point there, however I don't think it's just our fans, football fans in general are always split on center midfielders and their role i.e the likes of Barry, Carrick, Mikel, Allen, Wanyama, Noble etc. have all divided opinion at their respective clubs.

Some think they make the rest of their team click with their 'unseen' work, they do everyone's else's dirty work etc. play the simple passes etc. whilst others think they are a waste of space and don't contribute.

I think the difference with Hammond and the likes of Monty, Booker, Gannon are that at least there were some positive things that could be said for those players when it came to the debate. I don't hear one positive thing any one of our fans has to say about Hammond, and to make matters worse, he's the wrong side of 32, is immobile and is on big wages.

 

[Jonboy60]

You've got a good point there, however I don't think it's just our fans, football fans in general are always split on center midfielders and their role i.e the likes of Barry, Carrick, Mikel, Allen, Wanyama, Noble etc. have all divided opinion at their respective clubs.

Some think they make the rest of their team click with their 'unseen' work, they do everyone's else's dirty work etc. play the simple passes etc. whilst others think they are a waste of space and don't contribute.

I think the difference with Hammond and the likes of Monty, Booker, Gannon are that at least there were some positive things that could be said for those players when it came to the debate. I don't hear one positive thing any one of our fans has to say about Hammond, and to make matters worse, he's the wrong side of 32, is immobile and is on big wages.

This. We could get a much younger, fitter and cheaper work- horse than Hammond. If that's all he brings to the table.

 

[PeteBlade]

Montgomery and Doyle were two of my favourite players to pull on a red and white shirt along with Cresswell.
.

This makes me sad on the inside.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

This makes me sad on the inside.

I get your point, but watching the current bunch week in week out makes me a lot sadder.

They were far from the most talented players i've seen play for us, but they all made up for their shortcomings with hard work.

Give me those 3 over Basham, Hammond and Sammon any day.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

This makes me sad on the inside.

2 of the biggest splay footed twats that we've ever had, monty could 'run about a bit' so fucking what, he didn't create goals couldn't score and his passing was woeful - it's telling that no one ever came in for him in ten years.

As regards Doyle he was another part of our sad decline .

 

[LSF]

Wardonia makes an excellent point in his o/p, indeed the much maligned ball winner has always attracted derision from sections of the fan base.
I always tend to lean towards these type of players as their role is unspectacular, sometimes quite ugly and unpleasant to the conneisuer. All teams generally have one or two and invariably they look better than the one in your team.
As for some of ours, always appreciated the contributions of Monty and Doyle, Bob Booker and Simon Webster did it effectively, but like Wardonia, I always thought Trevor Hockey was way overrated and his place in the memories of us older fans tainted with the glory of the times.
He did his bit at the crucial stage when it was needed, but in a lot of the games I watched him he was way past his best. Harris jettisoned him pretty quickly, he briefly burned brightly for us, but not for long, certainly not the best in that role that I've seen for our club.
As for the current incumbent, well, as I said earlier, I tend to lean towards these kind of players, but this bloke is, like many of his teammates, bloody woeful!

 

[Chezzy Blades]

As regards Doyle he was another part of our sad decline .

The decline has got a whole lot sadder in the last 10 months without him.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

The decline has got a whole lot sadder in the last 10 months without him.

Presumably a Doyle in midfield would have meant champagne football this season.

For Doyle see Hammond

 

[FTPE]

I see your point but there's still some incredibly gifted workhorses like McCall out there, you just happen to have listed some shit ones.
They might get less praise but even this season N'Golo Kantè at Leicester has been a joy to watch.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

Presumably a Doyle in midfield would have meant champagne football this season.

For Doyle see Hammond

The whole point of the op is that someone has to do the dirty work in midfield, it's nothing to do with champagne football.

I look at our goals conceded column, which is only 3 short of last seasons already with 8 games still to go.

 

[boo radley]

I thought we conceeded our two goals after Hammond had come off yesterday. But we conceeded the first just before. It seems to me as though he's told to sit just in front of the defence and not to move too much. The problem is when he gets involved when defending wider. Now if he's the last man and closing a wider attacks fine but take his tackle at Man U as an example where he should not have been involved. Coutts available to slow attacker for the mis positioned Brayford who was getting back. Hammond should have backed Coutts up. Now it seems to me as if he's actually trying to cut out yhe diving in part of his game which is a good thing.
If his job is to sit in front of the defence and is told to strictly stick to that, that is when fans can get frustrated seeing the massive spaces that he sometimes has in front of him to exploit. If at this level, he cannot or is told not to use those spaces, then that shows the lack of faith in other players to cover the space he is vacating and we really are that crap.
He is actually not a patch on Monty and others mentioned but is more like Doyle who was meant to be Montys replacement but who also should not be compared to him. Give me even a 2010 Monty over either of those two.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Montgomery and Doyle were two of my favourite players to pull on a red and white shirt along with Cresswell.

Hammond is one of my least favourites. The role is very important in any team, he just plays it dreadfully because his legs have gone.

And that my friend in a nutshell is bang on the mark.

Oh how we have missed a Monty or a Doyle this season. I honesty believe that with either of these two players n the side, we would have several more points and most probably by comfy in the play off spots.

AV a like.

UTB

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Dean Hammond attracts many opinions on this site and in other media. Very few are complimentary.
The basic scenario put forward is that the manager picks this player every week, the player is useless, the manager defends his choice to the hilt therefore the manager is an idiot to be replaced.
The same was written / said about Michael Doyle. And Nick Montgomery, And Mikele Leigertwood. Similarly Bob Booker, Simon Webster, Paul Rogers, John Gannon, Charlie Hartfield.
Mick Speight’s every touch was booed in games during 1975-6 and, in my early days, harshest of all, I remember a cry of Get Off (Barry) Wagstaff, harsh because there were no substitutes in those days.
Eventually though the efforts of these players becomes recognised. Speight is now a Blades legend and the perceived wisdom is that Boxing Day wouldn’t have happened if he had stayed on. Booker is a cult figure. Recent posts re-evaluate the contribution of Doyle kindly and yesterday on the station platform, the inspiration for this post, I heard that what we are lacking is a Nick Montgomery.
I am not a superior fan. I too have / had my reservations about all these players. I even thought the late, great Trevor Hockey was crap at the time.
However, I am now giving consideration to the idea recently put forward by Nigel Adkins that we perhaps don’t fully appreciate the role of the midfield workhorse. Perhaps our memories are too full of the generational Hagan, Currie, Hodges and Brown.
History seems to suggest that Nigel has a point.

Good post.

I'm undecided on Hammond but I thought we almost totally capitulated when he left the pitch yesterday. Otoh when he was on the pitch he played passes behind players and lost possession when there was no need. Can we do better for the money? I'd like to think so, but we'd need the complete package of professionalism, organising, and playing ability - so it would have to be someone with a ton of experience. Not cheap. It's liking hiring a consultant.

An important part of Adkins thinking is the professionalism Hammond brings to the dressing room. If he is such a good role model then this can only positively affect the young players who are key to the way he sees the club developing. Done well it would be hard to overestimate the importance of that role - but it doesn't follow that he has to be on the pitch.

That said though if we were once again dropping back to 5-3-2, and that was a major the cause of problems second half then maybe Hammond would be the one on the pitch organising us back to a higher 3-5-2. It's like when Keane was SAF's lieutenant.

If a manager with Adkins' credentials says Hammond does unseen work and then some "fans" on tintermet start/carry on spitting their dummies bc their profound understanding of the game has been challenged, then I'll go with the manager.

A good example of this unseen work would be tracking the run of the scorer of their second goal. Reed let him wander past, Hammond (and tbf plenty of others) wouldn't've let that happen. It's possible he does a ton of work like this. Flynn mentioned Hammond a couple of weeks ago as doing a lot of his dirty work enabling him to get forward more. Istm we also need someone to carry Coutts defensively. Maybe he does this too. If he's single-handedly carrying the world of the midfield then he's allowed the odd misplaced pass.

If someone can analyse his total performance and point out shortcomings, suggest alternatives, and generally be constructive - rather than just shout abuse - then that'd be worth considering, but for now I'm a Don't Know.



Btw Doyle is captain at Portsmouth and got this review recently:

“Sheffield United Must have some team not to want to keep Doyle, Davies or Mcnulty there. Their loss is our gain though so to speak. All three have been and [are] going to be so important in the next couple of months.”

 

[shorehamview]

I wouldn't use Hammond as a fucking saw horse, never mind a workhorse. He would even fuck up just being perfectly still.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

Good post.

A good example of this unseen work would be tracking the run of the scorer of their second goal. Reed let him wander past, Hammond (and tbf plenty of others) wouldn't've let that happen. It's possible he does a ton of work like this. Flynn mentioned Hammond a couple of weeks ago as doing a lot of his dirty work enabling him to get forward more. Istm we also need someone to carry Coutts defensively. Maybe he does this too. If he's single-handedly carrying the world of the midfield then he's allowed the odd misplaced pass.

There were 2 or 3 examples of him letting his man run yesterday, though they didn't result in a goal. The one that stuck in my head was when their number 20 (I think) ran past him and Hammond watched him go, resulting on him getting on the end of a pass from their left back and breaking past Basham into the box. The move came to nothing, but to suggest he would have tracked the man Reed let go is inaccurate in my opinion.

There's been many times this season, particularly the longer range goals we've conceded, where Hammond has failed to engage his man who's then popped one in from 25 yards. One of Peterborough's goals, the one from the little Turkish lad is an example of a player moving it to the side and Hammond just not being quick enough to get himself in the way before the shot came in.

I honestly think we've got him 5 years too late. He clearly knows the game, and i'm sure played a key role in Adkins' Southampton team when they went up from this league but at 32/33? his legs just can't get him to where he needs to be anymore.

 

[Finnieston]

I take no notice. Got used to it over 40 years .Gannon was hounded terribly when he was here. It was embarrassing. I could understand it if we were a top club ,winning cups and league trophies every season. Players like Dave Mackay,Eddie Clamp, Bremner etc were good because they have good players around them ,and in good positions to receive.
United however are and probably always will be an unfashionable mid table nonentity. When we have been in the old 1st division it was always mid table or near the relegation zone. So watching top class players every week will never be achieved. I take no notice now . Just get on with it. Moan and groan all you like........It aint gonna happen and because of the culture thats built up over the years with moaning supporters, and picking on certain players for abuse,if i was a player ide leave United well alone.Dont they call it Bullying in the workplace.
Chicken and egg. Still if we are scapegoating Hammond were leaving someone else alone. Thats a positive i suppose. Until the next time.........

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

There were 2 or 3 examples of him letting his man run yesterday, though they didn't result in a goal. The one that stuck in my head was when their number 20 (I think) ran past him and Hammond watched him go, resulting on him getting on the end of a pass from their left back and breaking past Basham into the box. The move came to nothing, but to suggest he would have tracked the man Reed let go is inaccurate in my opinion.

There's been many times this season, particularly the longer range goals we've conceded, where Hammond has failed to engage his man who's then popped one in from 25 yards. One of Peterborough's goals, the one from the little Turkish lad is an example of a player moving it to the side and Hammond just not being quick enough to get himself in the way before the shot came in.

I honestly think we've got him 5 years too late. He clearly knows the game, and i'm sure played a key role in Adkins' Southampton team when they went up from this league but at 32/33? his legs just can't get him to where he needs to be anymore.

Good post.

And tbh it tallies with what I see when I watch him.

But would you want him in the team on Wednesday? If not who would our midfield be? Over the summer who could we sign who would do a better job (on the pitch and off it)?

(Not having the legs reminds me of Swindon's first leg play-off winner last year: Doyle could see it coming from miles away and did his best to cover Byrne but he was nowhere near - it all happened in grisly slow motion.)

 

[Esablade]

But we conceeded the first just before. It seems to me as though he's told to sit just in front of the defence and not to move too much.

He's told not to move much!?!?!?

 

[PeteBlade]

Good post.

And tbh it tallies with what I see when I watch him.

But would you want him in the team on Wednesday? If not who would our midfield be? Over the summer who could we sign who would do a better job (on the pitch and off it)?

(Not having the legs reminds me of Swindon's first leg play-off winner last year: Doyle could see it coming from miles away and did his best to cover Byrne but he was nowhere near - it all happened in grisly slow motion.)

I'm leaving this thread now, purely because of how annoying it is when you continually say "good post" purely because someone agrees with you and that fans who don't rate Hammond are "fans".

 

[Chezzy Blades]

Good post.

And tbh it tallies with what I see when I watch him.

But would you want him in the team on Wednesday? If not who would our midfield be? Over the summer who could we sign who would do a better job (on the pitch and off it)?

(Not having the legs reminds me of Swindon's first leg play-off winner last year: Doyle could see it coming from miles away and did his best to cover Byrne but he was nowhere near - it all happened in grisly slow motion.)

Yes, I would want him in the team on Wednesday, but unfortunately that's only because he's the only defensive midfield option we have. Whiteman has shown glimpses of forward thinking and a good range of passing, but I haven't seen anything from him as yet to suggest he's a genuine ball winning midfielder.

Looking to next season, yes, I would hope we have the resources available to sign someone better, certainly on the pitch than what we currently have in Hammond. His legs are going to be another 6 months older come the start of next season, and without thinking too much about individuals I would imagine there are far better and more affordable options up and down the division. It's been done to death on here already, but we could have easily gone and pinched Morsy in the summer who is much younger and in my opinion already does this role better than Hammond.

I understand your point about him being a role model for youngsters and allegedly a good professional, but with us expecting him make multiple signings in the summer, I don't see why we can't bring in other senior pros who can offer us much more on the pitch than Hammond as well as what he does off it. I think two wise heads at centre half are still something we should make an absolute priority in the summer.

Agree regarding Doyle and I do think his time was coming to an end. The problem I have with him going is that we've replaced him with someone who in my opinion offers less than Doyle still did in the same role, and who from what we're told United are paying much more for the privilege.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Yes, I would want him in the team on Wednesday, but unfortunately that's only because he's the only defensive midfield option we have. Whiteman has shown glimpses of forward thinking and a good range of passing, but I haven't seen anything from him as yet to suggest he's a genuine ball winning midfielder.

Looking to next season, yes, I would hope we have the resources available to sign someone better, certainly on the pitch than what we currently have in Hammond. His legs are going to be another 6 months older come the start of next season, and without thinking too much about individuals I would imagine there are far better and more affordable options up and down the division. It's been done to death on here already, but we could have easily gone and pinched Morsy in the summer who is much younger and in my opinion already does this role better than Hammond.

I understand your point about him being a role model for youngsters and allegedly a good professional, but with us expecting him make multiple signings in the summer, I don't see why we can't bring in other senior pros who can offer us much more on the pitch than Hammond as well as what he does off it. I think two wise heads at centre half are still something we should make an absolute priority in the summer.

Agree regarding Doyle and I do think his time was coming to an end. The problem I have with him going is that we've replaced him with someone who in my opinion offers less than Doyle still did in the same role, and who from what we're told United are paying much more for the privilege.

Good post. Cheers.

 

[boo radley]

He's told not to move much!?!?!?

Seems that way. A bit like a space invader set to a narrow screen.

 

[sheffielder]

I'm leaving this thread now, purely because of how annoying it is when you continually say "good post" purely because someone agrees with you and that fans who don't rate Hammond are "fans".

Good post

 

[Finnieston]

Yes, I would want him in the team on Wednesday, but unfortunately that's only because he's the only defensive midfield option we have. Whiteman has shown glimpses of forward thinking and a good range of passing, but I haven't seen anything from him as yet to suggest he's a genuine ball winning midfielder.

Looking to next season, yes, I would hope we have the resources available to sign someone better, certainly on the pitch than what we currently have in Hammond. His legs are going to be another 6 months older come the start of next season, and without thinking too much about individuals I would imagine there are far better and more affordable options up and down the division. It's been done to death on here already, but we could have easily gone and pinched Morsy in the summer who is much younger and in my opinion already does this role better than Hammond.

I understand your point about him being a role model for youngsters and allegedly a good professional, but with us expecting him make multiple signings in the summer, I don't see why we can't bring in other senior pros who can offer us much more on the pitch than Hammond as well as what he does off it. I think two wise heads at centre half are still something we should make an absolute priority in the summer.

Agree regarding Doyle and I do think his time was coming to an end. The problem I have with him going is that we've replaced him with someone who in my opinion offers less than Doyle still did in the same role, and who from what we're told United are paying much more for the privilege.

Multiple signings??? Oooh Hundred. Thatl be good.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Good post. Cheers.

Is this what passes for humour these days ?

 

[PeteBlade]

Is this what passes for humour these days ?

Good post.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Good post.

Lol