McCabe

[blader]

Well, it's close season, everyone's a bit bored so I thought I'd bring up an old controversial topic (which didn't involve Evans!)

Now, I for one have never seen much wrong in McCabe, I think (know) he has made some poor decisions but always felt he was well-intentioned at least. Now, I have noticed for the last 12-18 months his name seems to have come up less frequently, are the anti-McCabe group mellowing, have you changed your opinions or has it just not been brought up? Not having a go, just interested as to why the huge debates which used to occur over McCabe no longer seem to exist.

 

[Nick Jansky]

We could have had a far worse owner, but he has made some very big mistakes.

But he took his time to find the right investor, and getting that wrong would have been the biggest mistake of the lot.

So on balance, compared to most of our other owners in my lifetime, he gets a tick from me.

 

[metalblade]

Because you all know I was right all along

 

[Bill the Butcher]

This time 12 monts ago i was very anti-McCabe, I was younger (12 months to be exact) and definatley not wiser. Unsuprisingly my views on him now have changed, drastically, with all thats happened regards the prince and so on. Now, i admit its a bit fickle of me to suddenly change my views on someone as soon as money comes involved but thats football at the end of the day isnt it.

I suppose now I understand that everything he has done has being in the best intensions. Even though I wasnt a fan of all the hotel being built and the expenses of it, but i suppose its pretty and quite cosy after mach every now and then.

 

[ghandi]

This time 12 monts ago i was very anti-McCabe, I was younger (12 months to be exact) and definatley not wiser. Unsuprisingly my views on him now have changed, drastically, with all thats happened regards the prince and so on. Now, i admit its a bit fickle of me to suddenly change my views on someone as soon as money comes involved but thats football at the end of the day isnt it.

I suppose now I understand that everything he has done has being in the best intensions. Even though I wasnt a fan of all the hotel being built and the expenses of it, but i suppose its pretty and quite cosy after mach every now and then.

Which he bought for a £1 off the club as one of the ways to ensure he did not lose any of his investments.

 

[Bill the Butcher]

Which he bought for a £1 off the club as one of the ways to ensure he did not lose any of his investments.

To be honest mate, I dont have a clue about all of that business stuff I just agree/disagree with what other people say. same with that 1 pound half take over bollocks with our prince abz, which apparently it meant good things were to come to the club and fans. Also it was a kick in the bollocks to all my wendy pals who were expecting investment in themselves (lolz) by some eastern fellas and took piss out of our investment saying it was going to be that bloke off of fonejacker. Well, stood on their own claymore there didnt they.

 

[Esablade]

Bottom line is McCabe is a successful businessman and his dealings between his companies are quite tangled, shall we say...some decisions seemed more business based than 'football' which riled, cast fear into many fans...especially as I believe we were heading down a one way street upon relegation from the Champ with little chance of the club progressing on or off the field..however, he appears to have turned it round in the end by getting 'the Prince' onboard after some terrible decisions( the expansions abroad, dwelling on the Tevez affair etc) and a large slice of rotten luck.

You can't deny that he gave it a reyt good go and ploughed loads of his own time, effort and money into the club...hopefully he'll get to see the club promoted back into the Champ and challenging for that Prem promotion again.

UTB!

 

[bertieblade]

Ploughed his own money back into the club??
I do that as indeed does every Sheffield united supporter when we buy tickets etc, but we do not take it out again by transferring assets to our companies in lieu of debt?

 

[scrap]

He is a true Blade, make no mistake.

 

[alcoblade]

McCabe has made oodles of bad decisions where SUFC are concerned, but I would bare my arse on the town hall steps if he'd made a penny (in fact not lost millions) on his overall dealings with us.

UTB

 

[1889]

Ploughed his own money back into the club??
I do that as indeed does every Sheffield united supporter when we buy tickets etc, but we do not take it out again by transferring assets to our companies in lieu of debt?

But you're paying to go and be entertained, theoretically at least. He is financially supporting the club and provides funding for growth, I don't think it unreasonable that he should ask for some security for those funds. Besides I don't think there are many multi millionaire United fans queuing to take his place and I think it's very much a case of be careful what you wish for.
Whatever you think of him, I am pretty sure as a lifelong Unitedite, he would never sell the ground or disrespect it's long traditions and history in return for a quick buck, as we have seen many times over at other clubs. I'm not sure that would not necessarily be the case with others, whose investment lacked any emotional connection and be purely profit driven.

It is apparent that while McCabes had a lot of stick for his mistakes, he has had very little in the way of praise for his part in last seasons revival.

So well done Kev!

 

[wizadry]

Right everybody,this is how you judge mccabe,in league positions,where was we when he started with us and where are we now and thats your answer.Simply not good enough in my opinion but i will still support us,no matter what.

 

[Pinchy]

McCabe has made oodles of bad decisions where SUFC are concerned, but I would bare my arse on the town hall steps if he'd made a penny (in fact not lost millions) on his overall dealings with us.

UTB

I agree with you entirely about McCabe, but your suggested forfeit of arse-showing is pretty hollow given that you have yet to fulfil an earlier such commitment.

Do I not recall, also, a further pending display of genitalia depending on some or other eventuality?

If you're not careful, people will begin to think you are all talk and no buttocks.

Whilst we're at it, upon request I shall bare anything at all at any location at all for an indefinite period if England win the World Cup.

Taking a risk there, aren't I?

 

[sheffielder]

It might not suit people's agenda, however If anything, owning Sheffield United nearly finished McCabe.

 

[Pinchy]

Right everybody,this is how you judge mccabe,in league positions,where was we when he started with us and where are we now and thats your answer.Simply not good enough in my opinion but i will still support us,no matter what.

That's a fair point and those if us who support and admire him are only too aware of his errors and shortcomings (see Nick's post for example).

However, despite what cynics might say, he is a true Blade. He wears his heart on the crossed swords. He always acts in what he believes to be the best interests of SUFC and he has put a fortune into the club; far more than he will ever recover.

I dread to think what might have happened to us without Kevin McCabe. There's never been a queue in the car park of people willing and able to replace him, that's for sure.

 

[Woodwardfan]

In my view the Biggest Ever Blade but his series of poor managerial appointments have damaged both his image and his investment.

The jury is out on the worth of our prince as an investor but that, plus the rapid appointment of Nigel Clough as soon as he became available, just could re-write the history books for McCabe and the club. Judging from the tenor of this thread Blades' fans want KM to succeed despite all the heartache of the past 7 years.

Note: The sale of the hotel to KM for £1 was in settlement of £10m debt after an independent valuation of the hotel at £10m.

 

[Bladesway]

Well, it's close season, everyone's a bit bored so I thought I'd bring up an old controversial topic (which didn't involve Evans!)

Now, I for one have never seen much wrong in McCabe, I think (know) he has made some poor decisions but always felt he was well-intentioned at least. Now, I have noticed for the last 12-18 months his name seems to have come up less frequently, are the anti-McCabe group mellowing, have you changed your opinions or has it just not been brought up? Not having a go, just interested as to why the huge debates which used to occur over McCabe no longer seem to exist.

Anti-McCabe? Who is against the guy? As a chairman/owner you stand or fall based on your decisions. I'm sorry but well intentioned or otherwise he has made a series of absolute howlers. I am not Anti-McCabe I am anti stupid decisions that effect the club I love in a negative way.

Anyone who says he has ploughed his own money in either doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand how these things work. Oddly enough McCabe will never have to sell his car to finance a deal or go to the bank to draw on his personal finances to make sure the club survives (perhaps this should be more the case then people wouldn't make stupid investments in football clubs they can't afford). He may transfer assets around and shift paper from one place to another but please don't anyone think he is financing out of his family wealth. That's ring fenced.

It might not suit people's agenda, however If anything, owning Sheffield United nearly finished McCabe.

How, when? Explain how he nearly had to go to a debt management agency and declare himself bankrupt. If you see the Sunday Times rich list he is still in there. Finished? I can't quantify what you think is finished but this isn't it. The property crash may have set him back but he was never nearly finished.

We are where we are because of Kevin McCabe above all. We have gone forwards then further backwards. So far he has utterly failed. HOWEVER, in recent months he seems to have done the right things and we are moving in the right direction. If getting the right investors in leaves us with a platform to build then ultimately the ride has been bumpy but lets say we are top end of the Championship then no one will remember the dark old days, and he will have been a success in the end.

In summary I don't dislike the individual but I really wish he hadn't got so involved in the decision making when it came to Managers. Because he really fucked it up.

 

[Esablade]

Ploughed his own money back into the club??
I do that as indeed does every Sheffield united supporter when we buy tickets etc, but we do not take it out again by transferring assets to our companies in lieu of debt?

True.

Fans are the lifeblood of any club and often make a far larger sacrifice, relatively/personally in terms of cash.

That doesn't detract however from McCabe's effort's to secure top flight football...the asset swapping etc on the other hand will have divided fans.
Think that's still got a course to run.
Hopefully things will go well in the pitch and everyone will be happy.

UTB!

 

[alcoblade]

Do I not recall, also, a further pending display of genitalia depending on some or other eventuality?

Oh bugger....trust you to remember

UTB

 

[Sothall_Blade]

In my view the Biggest Ever Blade but his series of poor managerial appointments have damaged both his image and his investment.

The jury is out on the worth of our prince as an investor but that, plus the rapid appointment of Nigel Clough as soon as he became available, just could re-write the history books for McCabe and the club. Judging from the tenor of this thread Blades' fans want KM to succeed despite all the heartache of the past 7 years.

Note: The sale of the hotel to KM for £1 was in settlement of £10m debt after an independent valuation of the hotel at £10m.

That's only half the story though.
Sheffield United borrowed £17.5M to build a four star hotel on valuable land owned by the club.
Sheffield United then paid off a chunk of that £17.5M debt over the next couple of years.
Once the hotel was built and the debt was much reduced, McCabe took private ownership of both the Hotel and the club's land it was built on.
As part of that deal, Sheffield United included a "one-off write down charge" of £6.2M in their 2010 Accounts.
Any future income or profits derived from the hotel will benefit McCabe personally but not Sheffield United.
As I've said before, Sheffield United would have been far better off keeping the land and charging people to park on it.

 

[Balham]

As I've said before, Sheffield United would have been far better off keeping the land and charging people to park on it.

Very true. However, the land has a loss-making hotel on it and that was proving to be a drain on the accounts of SU plc. There was a nominal consideration paid by Scarborough as you have to provide consideration (£1 is considered the minimum) but what was actually transferred was an asset with a book value of £10,000,001 and a £10,000,000 debt. The £6.2m writedown was necessary as the hotel had an unrealistic book value of £16.2m.

The hotel sums up McCabe's time at United: well intentioned but ultimately unaffordable. You can't doubt his desire for United to do well but his decision making has been poor since the moment we got promoted to the Premier League.

 

[Woodwardfan]

That's only half the story though.
Sheffield United borrowed £17.5M to build a four star hotel on valuable land owned by the club.
Sheffield United then paid off a chunk of that £17.5M debt over the next couple of years.
Once the hotel was built and the debt was much reduced, McCabe took private ownership of both the Hotel and the club's land it was built on.
As part of that deal, Sheffield United included a "one-off write down charge" of £6.2M in their 2010 Accounts.
Any future income or profits derived from the hotel will benefit McCabe personally but not Sheffield United.
As I've said before, Sheffield United would have been far better off keeping the land and charging people to park on it.

Sorry mate but I disagree. The "write down" was the original hotel cost as compared to the market value at the time it passed to KM, normal straight forward accounting. That year KM wrote off various debt owing to him from the club in return for assets and some equity as I recall. Since then in any case the balance of club to KM in terms of monies due or paid is way in the club's favour now that he has "given" half the club to the prince and written off debt owing to him, so part stories are counterproductive now as they always were.

You will be well aware KM was never in the club to salt away cash from working capital and you would never say he was I am sure. For some years it has been obvious that the value of KM's investment has been thrown away by his successive failed managers. In the end he was not giving away all that much to the prince but that would alter dramatically if we ever get back to the Premiership of course. The written off debt was substantial though and i wouldn't be surprised if the man did but fund the expensive loans himself in the latter part of the season because I suspect the prince has put nothing in yet, otherwise we would have been hearing about it surely.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Who owned the land that the hotel was built on and how much was it worth (undeveloped)? Sheffield United. £1M + Annual income from it?
How much did the hotel cost to build? £17.5M?
How much did United borrow in order to build the hotel? 17.5M?
How much did United then pay out in debt and interest repayments? £1.5M?
Total cost to Sheffield United of the Hotel? £20M?

What contribution did Copthorne make to the building cost? None?
What contribution did Kevin McCabe make to the building cost? None?
Who owns the hotel and the land it is built on now? Kevin McCabe
How much did it cost him to buy both? £10M + £1
Who benefits from any future profits made by the hotel? Kevin McCabe and Copthorne
Who benefits from any future sale of the hotel? Kevin McCabe

Feel free to point out where I’ve gone wrong but Sheffield United appear to have lost £10M + any future prospect of developing or profiting from their land.
Kevin McCabe appears to have gained a hotel that cost £20M to build for £10M (half price is always a good deal).
Copthorne don’t appear to have put anything in to building the hotel so presumably they’re a paying a fairly hefty lease?
All the risk and ultimate losses were made by Sheffield United. All the risk-free gains and profits will be made by others.

How did Sheffield United end up in a position where the hotel they built was losing them money?
Surely the minimum requirement before commencing with the deal would be to ensure that Copthorne’s contribution would at least cover the debt and interest repayments?
How else were United supposed to make any profit from the hotel? Is it making a profit now? It must be making a profit for someone or they would surely have shut it down by now.

I’m not suggesting that anybody has done anything crooked and I’m sure it can all be explained away accounting wise.
But the fact remains that Sheffield United spent millions on building a hotel, while the team slipped down the divisions and they now have nothing left to show from that investment.

 

[SandyMcBlade]

People tend to forget what the club was like before he took over after the Brealey McDonald period, at least he appears to be leaving us in a better position financially than we were back then ..
Mr McCabe was looked upon as a savior right up to us achieving promotion to the premiership, looking back now it must have been around about then when he was taken over by the Aliens....

 

[Bladesway]

People tend to forget what the club was like before he took over after the Bealey McDonald period, at least he appears to be leaving us in a better position financially than we were when he took over.
Mr McCabe was looked upon as a savior right up to us achieving promotion to the premiership, looking back now it must have been around about then when he was taken over by the Aliens....

No one forgets, but his decisions since then have seen us slide further backwards and into debt than at any time in our history. OK we have been lower (just) but never more in financial shite until the Price turned up.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Who owned the land that the hotel was built on and how much was it worth (undeveloped)? Sheffield United. £1M + Annual income from it?
How much did the hotel cost to build? £17.5M?
How much did United borrow in order to build the hotel? 17.5M?
How much did United then pay out in debt and interest repayments? £1.5M?
Total cost to Sheffield United of the Hotel? £20M?

What contribution did Copthorne make to the building cost? None?
What contribution did Kevin McCabe make to the building cost? None?
Who owns the hotel and the land it is built on now? Kevin McCabe
How much did it cost him to buy both? £10M + £1
Who benefits from any future profits made by the hotel? Kevin McCabe and Copthorne
Who benefits from any future sale of the hotel? Kevin McCabe

Feel free to point out where I’ve gone wrong but Sheffield United appear to have lost £10M + any future prospect of developing or profiting from their land.
Kevin McCabe appears to have gained a hotel that cost £20M to build for £10M (half price is always a good deal).
Copthorne don’t appear to have put anything in to building the hotel so presumably they’re a paying a fairly hefty lease?
All the risk and ultimate losses were made by Sheffield United. All the risk-free gains and profits will be made by others.

How did Sheffield United end up in a position where the hotel they built was losing them money?
Surely the minimum requirement before commencing with the deal would be to ensure that Copthorne’s contribution would at least cover the debt and interest repayments?
How else were United supposed to make any profit from the hotel? Is it making a profit now? It must be making a profit for someone or they would surely have shut it down by now.

I’m not suggesting that anybody has done anything crooked and I’m sure it can all be explained away accounting wise.
But the fact remains that Sheffield United spent millions on building a hotel, while the team slipped down the divisions and they now have nothing left to show from that investment.

Very sound reasoning but such dynamics happened to almost every commercial property in the country in that period and certainly was not a good time for hotel businesses either. There was a banking crash and we all suffered and are still suffering. It is true to say though that KM's diversification on behalf of the football club business into property and the hotel was unsuccessful. At the time it seemed sound for the club to benefit from KM's property expertise but hindsight tells us it didn't work. Ten years previously the club would have made a fortune which could have been spent on the playing side. The timing was typical SUFC.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Very sound reasoning but such dynamics happened to almost every commercial property in the country in that period and certainly was not a good time for hotel businesses either. There was a banking crash and we all suffered and are still suffering. It is true to say though that KM's diversification on behalf of the football club business into property and the hotel was unsuccessful. At the time it seemed sound for the club to benefit from KM's property expertise but hindsight tells us it didn't work. Ten years previously the club would have made a fortune which could have been spent on the playing side. The timing was typical SUFC.

Fair enough but it's worth pointing out that McCabe sold most of his UK Property business for £150M in August 2007 and was quoted as saying “The UK Market has peaked but Europe hasn’t”.

It seems that he pulled out at just the right time for him personally but continued to invest in UK Property on behalf of the club. Once the market had crashed and bottomed out, he then took over United's property with his own businesses. Very kind of him..

 

[Fiery Blade]

_In a nutshell - The reason McCabe is now not getting flack is that for once he made the right decision by appointing Nigel Clough !

 

[Woodwardfan]

Fair enough but it's worth pointing out that McCabe sold most of his UK Property business for £150M in August 2007 and was quoted as saying “The UK Market has peaked but Europe hasn’t”.

It seems that he pulled out at just the right time for him personally but continued to invest in UK Property on behalf of the club. Once the market had crashed and bottomed out, he then took over United's property with his own businesses. Very kind of him..

Sorry Southall, that is patently unfair. A professional valuation of the hotel as a going concern was read out at the AGM that year. Why imply something of an ulterior motive when there isn't one? I pursue the point because at least one person "likes" what you are saying and may believe the connotation you are putting on things. At that AGM KM stated that banks had stopped lending to football clubs ( and they had big time)so he had to find ways to clear the debt. That was "kind of him" to use your words.If he had not done that do you think the club would have survived if he had called in all his loans which had funded simple working capital over the years?

I must say it is far easier to defend KM under current circumstances. Rumours and innuendo like yours were rife when we were under the cosh only a little while ago. KM has seen United through to a new era of ownership and has made sacrifices to enable it. Best to give credit where credit is due at last. Nobody would defend his choice of managers or the club playing-record since 2007, but surely his integrity should not ever have been in question. He just doesn't need to work swift ones on his beloved club, he's loaded, even after spending £80m plus on United.

If he ever gets a reasonable proportion of that back it will mean we are in the Premiership and we will all benefit, so let's wish him well.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

_In a nutshell - The reason McCabe is now not getting flack is that for once he made the right decision by appointing Nigel Clough !

Wait until Maguire has gone, then we'll see if McC is getting an easy ride.