McCabe speaks

[JohnDenver]

One for Mic to send to Kev.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/30/breakdown

 

[TarquinDelouche]

He issues a statement saying nothing, in a language that a lot of people who don't inhabit the world of corporate bullshit won't understand

I don't see anything wrong with what he's said. If people can't understand what he means maybe they should find out instead of lampooning him for using uppity high falutin' language. How patronising would you like him to be?

 

[JohnDenver]

I don't see anything wrong with what he's said. If people can't understand what he means maybe they should find out instead of lampooning him for using uppity high falutin' language. How patronising would you like him to be?

Not sure he's using financial jargon here. It just reads as him being obfuscatory to me.

Whatever happened to Yorkshire plain speaking?

 

[oldblade]

Speaking for myself, Swiss, I read several things in the McCabe piece that were questionable, and certainly worthy of debate.

There are some reasoned posts on those points in this thread. Your post is not one of them.

Why have you chosen to single out Swissblade's post as not being reasoned, and yet you seem to ignore the numerous anti McCabe threads that are also not particularly reasonable and far more insulting?

I also have read some reasoned posts on this thread (your's at No 11 being one of them). But I also see a high number that are simply intent on seeing McCabe as some sort of enemy within. He's accused of being delusionl, a liar, of being committed to the ground "rather than the football thingy that makes it all so bothersome", suggestions he's trying to make Wilson's position untenable, he's targeting the club shop next, he's called Wilson a liar, taking the urine out of us, etc etc. And those that have dared to suggest that perhaps he hasn't done those things are "clutching at straws", talking "tripe" or "absolute nonsense", etc.

Swiss's post seems to me to be a fairly accurate and humorous assessment of the mind set of some of the people posting on this thread.

 

[metalblade]

Why have you chosen to single out Swissblade's post as not being reasoned, and yet you seem to ignore the numerous anti McCabe threads that are also not particularly reasonable and far more insulting?

I also have read some reasoned posts on this thread (your's at No 11 being one of them). But I also see a high number that are simply intent on seeing McCabe as some sort of enemy within. He's accused of being delusionl, a liar, of being committed to the ground "rather than the football thingy that makes it all so bothersome", suggestions he's trying to make Wilson's position untenable, he's targeting the club shop next, he's called Wilson a liar, taking the urine out of us, etc etc. And those that have dared to suggest that perhaps he hasn't done those things are "clutching at straws", talking "tripe" or "absolute nonsense", etc.

Swiss's post seems to me to be a fairly accurate and humorous assessment of the mind set of some of the people posting on this thread.

And the above post is certainly not a reasoned post.
Why can you not entertain the very idea that McCabe might just have made a mistake in coming out with his statement a few days after the team manager stated the opposite ?
Why can you not entertain the idea that he gets it wrong on a lot of things ?
Why do you elevate him to some God like status where he can do no wrong ?
Why do you McCabe disciples always try to muddy the waters until the thread goes off topic ?
I would suggest it is you with the agenda.
Are you so terrified of life without Kevin McCabe ?
There is a saying that no one man is bigger than the club and that includes Kevin McCabe, we will still be around long after he buggers off and the sooner the better for me. He arrived here when we were in Div 2 with not a massive amount of debt. Under his stewardship apart from one season of success we have thrown millions of pounds down the drain and find ourselves over £50 million in debt in a lower division with no stadium or training ground to call our own and all that clown can think of is to build hotels offices and student flats on land that should be owned by the football club.

 

[super_pig]

Nominate for most boring thread of season thus far

 

[TarquinDelouche]

McCabe disciples

Oh come on. Jesus Christ. Reasoned debate??

 

[SotonBlade]

....Are you so terrified of life without Kevin McCabe ?.....

Just to pick up on this point, i think it's more better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

 

[StarBlade]

McCabes assertion that a "silly myth" doesn't refer to what DW said, of course it is. The myth was either started by DW, or started by someone else and DW believed it to be true and didn't pick the player. If it isn't true, then DW is obviously incompetent. At the end of the day, our first team manager hasn't picked a first-team player, and the chairman of our parent company suggests it's due to a myth and not reality. Somehow, that makes it all the more acceptable and understandable.

 

[Bladesman]

McCabes assertion that a "silly myth" doesn't refer to what DW said, of course it is. The myth was either started by DW, or started by someone else and DW believed it to be true and didn't pick the player. If it isn't true, then DW is obviously incompetent. At the end of the day, our first team manager hasn't picked a first-team player, and the chairman of our parent company suggests it's due to a myth and not reality. Somehow, that makes it all the more acceptable and understandable.

Exactly.

Also if I was a Mr Cresswell I would be wondering why I had just signed a new contract to reduce may wage so I could carry on playing at the club. To then find out that I could of been playing and there were no financial reasons stopping me being selected.

One thing is for sure internal communication at club is clearly not great regardless of who is telling porkies.

 

[Balham]

And the above post is certainly not a reasoned post.
Why can you not entertain the very idea that McCabe might just have made a mistake in coming out with his statement a few days after the team manager stated the opposite ?

I'm not saying it wasn't a mistake. I am saying that neither Wilson nor McCabe deliberately lied about the situation.

Why can you not entertain the idea that he gets it wrong on a lot of things ?

I can and I do. Why can you not entertain the idea that he still wants to do well for the Blades?

Why do you elevate him to some God like status where he can do no wrong ?

See above. This statement borders the ridiculous.

Why do you McCabe disciples always try to muddy the waters until the thread goes off topic ?

Why do you McCabe bashers roll out the same old argument time after time, despite there being little or no evidence to back it up?

I would suggest it is you with the agenda.

Everyone's got an agenda. I'd like to think that mine is fairly open-minded.

Are you so terrified of life without Kevin McCabe ?

No, but for every Sheik Mansour there's a Sheik Abdullah (Málaga) and a Sasha Gaydamak and a Ali al-Faraj (both Portsmouth). Good investors seem to be thin on the ground: see SotonBlade's post.

There is a saying that no one man is bigger than the club and that includes Kevin McCabe, we will still be around long after he buggers off and the sooner the better for me. He arrived here when we were in Div 2 with not a massive amount of debt. Under his stewardship apart from one season of success we have thrown millions of pounds down the drain and find ourselves over £50 million in debt in a lower division with no stadium or training ground to call our own and all that clown can think of is to build hotels offices and student flats on land that should be owned by the football club.

We're not £50m in debt. We can call the stadium and the training ground our own as they're still owned by Sheffield United but it's the parent company now. However, I don't know why I just typed that because you'll ignore it.

I agree that there seems to be too much focus on non-football building schemes but it's not the FC's money being spent.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I agree that there seems to be too much focus on non-football building schemes but it's not the FC's money being spent.

What about the Hotel BB. That was built with the football club's money wasn't it?

 

[Micalijo]

And the above post is certainly not a reasoned post.
Why can you not entertain the very idea that McCabe might just have made a mistake in coming out with his statement a few days after the team manager stated the opposite ?
Why can you not entertain the idea that he gets it wrong on a lot of things ?
Why do you elevate him to some God like status where he can do no wrong ?
Why do you McCabe disciples always try to muddy the waters until the thread goes off topic ?
I would suggest it is you with the agenda.
Are you so terrified of life without Kevin McCabe ?
There is a saying that no one man is bigger than the club and that includes Kevin McCabe, we will still be around long after he buggers off and the sooner the better for me. He arrived here when we were in Div 2 with not a massive amount of debt. Under his stewardship apart from one season of success we have thrown millions of pounds down the drain and find ourselves over £50 million in debt in a lower division with no stadium or training ground to call our own and all that clown can think of is to build hotels offices and student flats on land that should be owned by the football club.

Top, top stuff metal - especially the last sentence.

In our time of need he decides to charge rent for use of the ground and build some no doubt disgusting properties on the land that has been owned by our beloved football club for decades, soiling it forever and no doubt imo actually putting investors off or at least opening the door for them to say I am moving the club to DVS pal, see ya.

 

[Micalijo]

One for Mic to send to Kev.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/30/breakdown

This is nonsense. It just has to be a really good idea (in terms of the health/success of the club) for a sports club to pay rent to a parent company which can then use the cash to fund property losses.

 

[Balham]

What about the Hotel BB. That was built with the football club's money wasn't it?

It was, as was the office block. However, neither has anything to do with the football club now.

I suppose that with hindsight, it was a bad series of decisions but then who knew that the recession would be this bad or last this long?

This is nonsense. It just has to be a really good idea (in terms of the health/success of the club) for a sports club to pay rent to a parent company which can then use the cash to fund property losses.

Which property losses are those then, Mic?

(Hint: the rent is being paid by SUFC ltd to SUFC plc so the losses will need to belong to SUFC plc)

 

[Balham]

double post

 

[Pedro Verde]

build some no doubt disgusting properties on the land that has been owned by our beloved football club for decades, soiling it forever and no doubt imo actually putting investors off or at least opening the door for them to say I am moving the club to DVS pal, see ya.

So you would like the land to be a car park or some wilderness full of weeds. Far from soiling the land I would count development as a vast improvement, why would that put investors off and why would there be any reason to move to DVS just beacause we built some flats.
Anything to have a pop isnt it, youd still be having a pop if we were top 10 in the Prem

 

[raul]

So you would like the land to be a car park or some wilderness full of weeds. Far from soiling the land I would count development as a vast improvement, why would that put investors off and why would there be any reason to move to DVS just beacause we built some flats.
Anything to have a pop isnt it, youd still be having a pop if we were top 10 in the Prem

If you were investing in the football team, and it went really well - think Premiership -, you might ( as the current owner once did) think it a good idea to increase capacity of stadium to generate bigger crowds etc and thus lessen your own need to keep putting your hand in your pocket.

How disappointed you'd be, then, to find that your Landlord had buggered that up by turning the stadium and surrounding land into a northern version of Leyton Orient.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

It was, as was the office block. However, neither has anything to do with the football club now.

I suppose that with hindsight, it was a bad series of decisions but then who knew that the recession would be this bad or last this long?

Sorry but I'm still not quite understanding the chain of events.
My understanding was that SUFC built the hotel on our own land, so we could benefit from a steady income for years to come.
Copthorne would pay us a fixed annual fee and then keep any profits over and above a certain level.

So having spent the money and built the hotel, why did SUFC effectively then give the hotel and land away to Scarborough (McCabe's personal company)?
If the hotel wasn't making as much as profit as anticipated that would be Copthorne's problem not ours.
The recession should only really affect us if we chose to sell the hotel at the bottom of the slump, which it appears we did.
We could still be receiving the steady income and we could still have the hotel and land as our asset.
Instead, Scarborough will be the ones to benefit in the future not Sheffield United. How? Why?

 

[metalblade]

What about the Hotel BB. That was built with the football club's money wasn't it?

I'm fairly sure it was SB ........ a 4* hotel to bring money in for better players oops sold for a quid who owns it now btw ???
I think I'd better not mention the millions thrown away on foreign clubs too, nice one Kev !

 

[Balham]

raul to an extent you're right but I don't see how any of the 'developments' (and I use the word lightly) at the Lane detract from the ability to extend the stadium? Having the car park on Cherry Street means that we could easily double the South Stand and the Kop could be similarly extended. The main infrastructure issues preventing a Nou Camp sized stadium are Bramall Lane and John Street - and McCabe didn't build them.

Sorry but I'm still not quite understanding the chain of events.
My understanding was that SUFC built the hotel on our own land, so we could benefit from a steady income for years to come.
Copthorne would pay us a fixed annual fee and then keep any profits over and above a certain level.

So having spent the money and built the hotel, why did SUFC effectively then give the hotel and land away to Scarborough (McCabe's personal company)?
If the hotel wasn't making as much as profit as anticipated that would be Copthorne's problem not ours.
The recession should only really affect us if we chose to sell the hotel at the bottom of the slump, which it appears we did.
We could still be receiving the steady income and we could still have the hotel and land as our asset.
Instead, Scarborough will be the ones to benefit in the future not Sheffield United. How? Why?

Copthorne's fee evidently wasn't covering the financial impact of the hotel on the accounts: if the situation was as described, the hotel's fair value wouldn't have diminished as it actually did.

We sold the hotel to Scarborough for £15,000,001; it's just that £15m of that went to pay off the associated debts. There is a clause in that contract for SUFC to re-purchase the hotel if it becomes viable. It was (is?) a failed business venture, simple as.

It could be argued that Scarborough, as a property company, already has the specialist knowledge in place to run a property business, thus making it cheaper. However, I don't think they undertook proper due diligence on the project and definitely didn't give the risk analysis (eg what if United got relegated back to the Championship? what if the global downturn was actually serious?) enough consideration.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Copthorne's fee evidently wasn't covering the financial impact of the hotel on the accounts: if the situation was as described, the hotel's fair value wouldn't have diminished as it actually did.

Still not getting this bit.

I read somewhere it was a fixed annual fee we were receiving from Copthorne.
Unaffected by the global downturn, recession or whatever.

When we borrowed the money we must have agreed what the debt repayments were in advance.
Therefore, also unaffacted by the global downturn, recession or whatever.

At what point did the fee we were receiving stop being enough to cover the debt repayments?
How did the recession cause this to happen?

 

[oldblade]

And the above post is certainly not a reasoned post.
Why can you not entertain the very idea that McCabe might just have made a mistake in coming out with his statement a few days after the team manager stated the opposite ?
Why can you not entertain the idea that he gets it wrong on a lot of things ?
Why do you elevate him to some God like status where he can do no wrong ?
Why do you McCabe disciples always try to muddy the waters until the thread goes off topic ?
I would suggest it is you with the agenda.
Are you so terrified of life without Kevin McCabe ?
There is a saying that no one man is bigger than the club and that includes Kevin McCabe, we will still be around long after he buggers off and the sooner the better for me. He arrived here when we were in Div 2 with not a massive amount of debt. Under his stewardship apart from one season of success we have thrown millions of pounds down the drain and find ourselves over £50 million in debt in a lower division with no stadium or training ground to call our own and all that clown can think of is to build hotels offices and student flats on land that should be owned by the football club.

The vast majority of what I have said on this thread has been confined to whether or not McCabe has been calling Wilson a liar (and vice versa). The statements made by either party quite simply do not show this. If that view upsets you - tough. It is not an unreasonable view to hold.

Whether or not it was a mistake for McCabe to come out with his statement when he did - that is different issue. I have not posted an opinion one way or the other on that. It's possible it was a mistake. But if you are truly interested in balance, could it not be considered a mistake for Wilson to have made his statement in the first place?

I cannot see in any of my posts on any thread in the history of this forum that I have ever posted anything that even remotely suggests that I believe McCabe has never got anything wrong.

Where have I elevated him to God like status? Perhaps you think that by stating that at the moment no McCabe equals no SUFC I have done that. If so I think that's a pretty extreme assumption from what appears to me to be a matter of fact. As a club we are spending more than we receive. Who else other than McCabe is writing the cheques to plug the shortfall?

Where are the waters muddied? And I have not seen any posts to date that show that anyone is terrified of life without McCabe.

You say my post was not reasoned. I suggest you take a long hard look at your own.

 

[oldblade]

Top, top stuff metal - especially the last sentence.

In our time of need he decides to charge rent for use of the ground and build some no doubt disgusting properties on the land that has been owned by our beloved football club for decades, soiling it forever and no doubt imo actually putting investors off or at least opening the door for them to say I am moving the club to DVS pal, see ya.

You may have a point if indeed he is charging rent of any significant amount. I will await the accounts before passing judgement on that. It might be that the rent is a financial burden on the club, but it may also be a totally insignificant amount.

What prtoperties are being built. Has there been a planning application?

 

[Grecian2000]

could it not be considered a mistake for Wilson to have made his statement in the first place?

I thought it was a strange thing for him to come out with at the time BUT it was straight after a match and as a result of a direct question asked of him and probably not one he was suspecting from the usually very compliant RS team.
If it's the truth then why shouldn't he say it? If it wasn't the truth why wasn't it questioned the next day by anyone at the club? All a bit messy.

 

[Grecian2000]

Has there been a planning application?

See "Kop car park development" thread started by Blade58 on next page of this forum.

 

[oldblade]

I thought it was a strange thing for him to come out with at the time BUT it was straight after a match and as a result of a direct question asked of him and probably not one he was suspecting from the usually very compliant RS team.
If it's the truth then why shouldn't he say it? If it wasn't the truth why wasn't it questioned the next day by anyone at the club? All a bit messy.

Yes I agree it is a bit messy.

But as for whether or not it was the truth, who knows? And we don't know that it wasn't questioned by anyone at the club. All we know is that it wasn't questioned publicly by anyone.

It may have been the truth, or it may have been the truth as he mistakenly understood it. We don't know. Those saying McCabe is lying are just surmising, and their opinions are largely based on their predisposed bias towards him. As I've said before, there are any number of scenarios that could show neither are being untruthful.

As for why Wilson might have been wiser not to say what he said (whether or not he believed it), you only have to look at some of the hysterical reactions on this forum to see that it might have been better unsaid and thrashed out in private.

But once it had been said, I don't see that McCabe had any option but to make a statement of some sort. And unsurprisingly he then gets slated for it.

 

[oldblade]

See "Kop car park development" thread started by Blade58 on next page of this forum.

Thanks, will look.

 

[StarBlade]

Yes I agree it is a bit messy.

But as for whether or not it was the truth, who knows? And we don't know that it wasn't questioned by anyone at the club. All we know is that it wasn't questioned publicly by anyone.

It may have been the truth, or it may have been the truth as he mistakenly understood it. We don't know. Those saying McCabe is lying are just surmising, and their opinions are largely based on their predisposed bias towards him. As I've said before, there are any number of scenarios that could show neither are being untruthful.

As for why Wilson might have been wiser not to say what he said (whether or not he believed it), you only have to look at some of the hysterical reactions on this forum to see that it might have been better unsaid and thrashed out in private.

But once it had been said, I don't see that McCabe had any option but to make a statement of some sort. And unsurprisingly he then gets slated for it.

He doesn't get slated for making a statement. He gets slated for contradicting what the manager said. Massive difference. As pointed out elsewhere, had KM said "yes, there were issues but they're now resolved", so be it. He hasn't, he's said there's no issues and never has been with the first team staff, despite what DW said.

Going round in circles. What's said is said, people will read into it what they will.

 

[oldblade]

He doesn't get slated for making a statement. He gets slated for contradicting what the manager said. Massive difference. As pointed out elsewhere, had KM said "yes, there were issues but they're now resolved", so be it. He hasn't, he's said there's no issues and never has been with the first team staff, despite what DW said.

Going round in circles. What's said is said, people will read into it what they will.

Which amounts to the same thing, because he doesn't seem entitled to do this, even though he actually owns the club, hired the manager and appears to have a different take on things than that manager. It appears to me that in some quarters McCabe is only allowed to say anything so long as it fits in with their view of things.

Grecian2000 asked the question " If it's the truth then why shouldn't he say it?" Well the same applies to McCabe surely?