Outgoing? Luke Freeman

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Bladezz said:
Think we need to relax here. I don’t see him going without someone lined up to come in. I remember the Lee Evans deal where we sold him on deadline day to announce Norwood a few hours later.
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A bit like deano confirming he wasn't coming back then announcing ramsdale an hour later as well
 
With Ozzy being Fleckys cover/competition that leaves Norwood/Berge/Lunny....Berge can play in both positions but we're still light. I would imagine if we're allowing Freeman to go out on loan we might have had a breakthorugh with the Swift deal??
 
RhodziLad said:
With Ozzy being Fleckys cover/competition that leaves Norwood/Berge/Lunny....Berge can play in both positions but we're still light. I would imagine if we're allowing Freeman to go out on loan we might have had a breakthorugh with the Swift deal??
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I dont think Swift goes anywhere, the owners are properly screwing reading over. The only person who would let him leave has been removed from anything football related.
 
Bladezz said:
Think we need to relax here. I don’t see him going without someone lined up to come in. I remember the Lee Evans deal where we sold him on deadline day to announce Norwood a few hours later.
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The Evans/Leonard sales meltdown was quite something to witness. A casual forum visitor would have thought that this had been some sort of Deane/Fjortoft seismic event given the ridiculous reactions from some.
 
Blade56 said:
We‘re light in every department except keepers. By my calls we’ve got

5 keepers
17 outfield players if freeman and Lunny leaves.

That’s not a PL squad.
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we will need to be lucky with injuries again for sure.

We must certainly be lining up a couple of PL loans you would have thought. I think 6/7/8 bodies would be required if freeman and lunny are out.

I think we need:
Central Defensive cover
Right back cover
Left back cover
RM
Attacking midfielder
Another striker.

ideally also bodiesto replace thelikes of retsos, Zivcovich, k freeman and Clarke who were all involved at times.
 
Singed to play in the Duffy role
A role we have not played since he signed
Odd signing
Clearly can't play in Fleck's position (not got it defensively)
As with all the players we've signed and then tried to change their game, all in all, a fairly pointless signing
I'm also confused why he's going out on loan (I assume we get a fair loan fee). I'd rather we get some of our money back. Not exactly likely to be worth more a year nearer 30 next summer.
 
robbiez666 said:
Singed to play in the Duffy role
A role we have not played since he signed
Odd signing
Clearly can't play in Fleck's position (not got it defensively)
As with all the players we've signed and then tried to change their game, all in all, a fairly pointless signing
I'm also confused why he's going out on loan (I assume we get a fair loan fee). I'd rather we get some of our money back. Not exactly likely to be worth more a year nearer 30 next summer.
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That makes the assumption that there are clubs wanting to or able to spend a full fee on him. If we hang on to him until later in the window, it limits our ability to get a replacement.
 
Houso said:
That makes the assumption that there are clubs wanting to or able to spend a full fee on him. If we hang on to him until later in the window, it limits our ability to get a replacement.
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True, but if the 'interest from a number of clubs' report is true, you would have hoped we'd get at least half what we paid for him back.
 
robbiez666 said:
True, but if the 'interest from a number of clubs' report is true, you would have hoped we'd get at least half what we paid for him back.
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To continue to play devil's advocate. The market may be in a different place after next season (with hopefully fans returning to grounds). As such, there may be more money in keeping him for the time being.

I suppose it comes down to this. Do Stephen Bettis and Carl Shieber want to maximise funds for the club? And do they have better insight than us?

I'm not denying that on the face of things it's disappointing that we're not getting back the fee we paid for Freeman if he's entirely out of Wilder's plans, but I trust that the guys in charge of looking after the club's best interests know a better way forward than the average fan.
 
I've got to be honest I really liked Freeman at QPR and going back to Stevanage but other than a few bits and pieces he did nothing to suggest he would ever be a regular in a Prem side. Wilder sees him every day so it's not just about games. I think he was a bit unfortunate to get injured after lock down when we had tired bodies/injuries/loss of form but as it stands we dont play with a 10 and Fkeck/Osborn are in front of him.

He is a tidy, intelligent player but you have to be really stand out at this level if you lack pace, athleticism or strength and not sure there us one thing he does really well. Even his passing was really mixed when he did play.

Wilder took a punt on him and Robinson being able to make an impact in the Prem. The signings did not come off due to the form of others and neither doing enough to be regulars.

I am disappointed neither worked out but I don't see either ever being close to regulars for us or any other side in the Prem.

We need depth I agree but I think from what Knill/Wilder have allegedly said we need to improve pace and power in the squad. To do this we may need to move a few out who won't be involved much/If at all.

Both players I see as Champ players. Others like McBurnie and the rest longer term players we already had showed they could do it at this level albeit on some fewer cases not always consistently. People will say they did not have many chances but hey had a fair few games and you have to to grasp opportunities.i recall a game at Brighton when Freeman just saw the game pass him by and Wilder took him off. Osborn came on and was much more involved and seized his brief minutes as he did in the ganes he played for Stevens and then got more minutes.

It happens.

Only surprise is we aren't selling him as in a year he will only have one year left of his contract and we won't get much for him. Maybe we just want to use his wage for another player coming in.

I won't be that bothered about him or Robinson going IF we sign players to replace them that can make an impact.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
The Evans/Leonard sales meltdown was quite something to witness. A casual forum visitor would have thought that this had been some sort of Deane/Fjortoft seismic event given the ridiculous reactions from some.
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I was quite happy they both went
They were clearly not good enough
 

Wilder today: “When we brought Luke in we were looking at playing two 10s at the time, and play with 10 and a 9, so maybe the system didn’t do him any great favours because we quickly changed it and it worked for us”

Mystery sold. Signed for a purpose, changed what we were planning to do, and he’d have probably featured more otherwise.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
Wilder today: “When we brought Luke in we were looking at playing two 10s at the time, and play with 10 and a 9, so maybe the system didn’t do him any great favours because we quickly changed it and it worked for us”

Mystery sold. Signed for a purpose, changed what we were planning to do, and he’d have probably featured more otherwise.
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where was this? Would like to hear what he had to say
 
I can think of players we've sold that have caused me great pain and hand wringing.
Not anywhere near that category.
One great half home to Palace and a couple of other tidy performances. Never remotely close to ousting Fleck (except in Pinchy's fevered mind) so GLTTL.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
Wilder today: “When we brought Luke in we were looking at playing two 10s at the time, and play with 10 and a 9, so maybe the system didn’t do him any great favours because we quickly changed it and it worked for us”

Mystery sold. Signed for a purpose, changed what we were planning to do, and he’d have probably featured more otherwise.
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That's very interesting. Often wondered if Wilder has considered going to a 3-4-3. But you need two central midfielders who are excellent on the ball and have the physical attributes to contribute at both ends of the pitch. Maybe with Berge and Fleck we have that now, but looks like it's not really in Wilder's plans anymore.
 
Houso said:
To continue to play devil's advocate. The market may be in a different place after next season (with hopefully fans returning to grounds). As such, there may be more money in keeping him for the time being.

I suppose it comes down to this. Do Stephen Bettis and Carl Shieber want to maximise funds for the club? And do they have better insight than us?

I'm not denying that on the face of things it's disappointing that we're not getting back the fee we paid for Freeman if he's entirely out of Wilder's plans, but I trust that the guys in charge of looking after the club's best interests know a better way forward than the average fan.
Click to expand...

I would suspect that we're getting wages paid and a decent sum for him, so there's that. I guess it depends how much money we actually have to spend on transfers. Loaning him out would probably indicate that we're not desperate.
 
I think letting him go on loan for the season is an insurance policy on our behalf. If we get relegated next season, Fleck will more than likely be sold, and we can get Freeman back who is a fantastic Championship midfielder. If we stop up again, we will sell him to Forest or someone else.
 
Deadbat said:
I've got to be honest I really liked Freeman at QPR and going back to Stevanage but other than a few bits and pieces he did nothing to suggest he would ever be a regular in a Prem side. Wilder sees him every day so it's not just about games. I think he was a bit unfortunate to get injured after lock down when we had tired bodies/injuries/loss of form but as it stands we dont play with a 10 and Fkeck/Osborn are in front of him.

He is a tidy, intelligent player but you have to be really stand out at this level if you lack pace, athleticism or strength and not sure there us one thing he does really well. Even his passing was really mixed when he did play.

Wilder took a punt on him and Robinson being able to make an impact in the Prem. The signings did not come off due to the form of others and neither doing enough to be regulars.

I am disappointed neither worked out but I don't see either ever being close to regulars for us or any other side in the Prem.

We need depth I agree but I think from what Knill/Wilder have allegedly said we need to improve pace and power in the squad. To do this we may need to move a few out who won't be involved much/If at all.

Both players I see as Champ players. Others like McBurnie and the rest longer term players we already had showed they could do it at this level albeit on some fewer cases not always consistently. People will say they did not have many chances but hey had a fair few games and you have to to grasp opportunities.i recall a game at Brighton when Freeman just saw the game pass him by and Wilder took him off. Osborn came on and was much more involved and seized his brief minutes as he did in the ganes he played for Stevens and then got more minutes.

It happens.

Only surprise is we aren't selling him as in a year he will only have one year left of his contract and we won't get much for him. Maybe we just want to use his wage for another player coming in.

I won't be that bothered about him or Robinson going IF we sign players to replace them that can make an impact.
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Personally, I don't think he can play in the fleck role. Too lightweight, slow and not a tackler. we don't play a AMC and I don't see him at a number 10 at this level.

I think it's a good point about depth. If we're not going to play Freeman or Robinson, and neither should have been signed in hindsight, then there's no point on them taking up a position in the 25 man squad. They've got very limited use.

we to have 2 in every outfield position, 3 keepers, an extra strikers as our have the stamina of asthmatic lemurs and an extra player who can slot in a few positions. I don't see Robinson or Freeman in this.

It does make me frown every time we're linked with a player who plays in a position we don't use. Most of Wilder's transfer missteps have been when he's tried to convert players.
 
INTERUNITED said:
I think letting him go on loan for the season is an insurance policy on our behalf. If we get relegated next season, Fleck will more than likely be sold, and we can get Freeman back who is a fantastic Championship midfielder. If we stop up again, we will sell him to Forest or someone else.
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I think that there could be something in this. Berge would also likely be sold as well.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
Wilder today: “When we brought Luke in we were looking at playing two 10s at the time, and play with 10 and a 9, so maybe the system didn’t do him any great favours because we quickly changed it and it worked for us”

Mystery sold. Signed for a purpose, changed what we were planning to do, and he’d have probably featured more otherwise.
Click to expand...

Not questioning wilder obviously but I would have liked to see us use the 10 a little more when chasing games and needing a little something different to break teams down.

although it’s a plan b - seems like it would have been useful to still have in the squad - as we don’t have that option now.
 
robbiez666 said:
Personally, I don't think he can play in the fleck role. Too lightweight, slow and not a tackler. we don't play a AMC and I don't see him at a number 10 at this level.

I think it's a good point about depth. If we're not going to play Freeman or Robinson, and neither should have been signed in hindsight, then there's no point on them taking up a position in the 25 man squad. They've got very limited use.

we to have 2 in every outfield position, 3 keepers, an extra strikers as our have the stamina of asthmatic lemurs and an extra player who can slot in a few positions. I don't see Robinson or Freeman in this.

It does make me frown every time we're linked with a player who plays in a position we don't use. Most of Wilder's transfer missteps have been when he's tried to convert players.
Click to expand...

I agree but I also think too much is made of specific positions and fitting in. At Prem level if you were good enough you would adapt. I will say something that might be controversial but if we played a system to fit Freeman or even Robinson, I still dont think they would be anywhere good enough. Course we dont know that but that is what I believe. If we had Freeman on a 3 wide up top and Freeman in the hole, they still dont have stand out ability, pace, dribbling, strength, aggression or dynamism for me to stand out at this level.

I think Wilder had to take some punts on players at Champ level when we went up - some have done ok to well in McBurnie and Osborn. Some have struggled to dislodge established players but also when had chances not done enough to say 'pick me.'

Its ironic though but to sign players like these now (Freeman and Robinson) you would get quoted silly prices - look at Cash (15 mill discussed) for Champ players and there is no guarantee on these.

Now we would do well to get half our money back for Robinson and Freeman. Yet if they were still in Champ and had done well last year we'd have to pay 10-15 million plus!I

I find it odd that players like Matt Doherty and Hoiberg (15 mill) can be got cheaper than say Watkins, Eze etc. These are established Prem players and it is quite odd. I know forwards can do for more but just my take on things. I thought the market would decrease but Champ players seem to be commanding silly fees even now. Whilst teams keep paying it then it becomes hard for us - that is why I am disappointed we are still not really exploring the foreign market at all. These are a punt too and have to settle in (and Covid does not help) but believe you can get more value for money in many instances.
 
Deadbat said:
I agree but I also think too much is made of specific positions and fitting in. At Prem level if you were good enough you would adapt. I will say something that might be controversial but if we played a system to fit Freeman or even Robinson, I still dont think they would be anywhere good enough. Course we dont know that but that is what I believe. If we had Freeman on a 3 wide up top and Freeman in the hole, they still dont have stand out ability, pace, dribbling, strength, aggression or dynamism for me to stand out at this level.

I think Wilder had to take some punts on players at Champ level when we went up - some have done ok to well in McBurnie and Osborn. Some have struggled to dislodge established players but also when had chances not done enough to say 'pick me.'

Its ironic though but to sign players like these now (Freeman and Robinson) you would get quoted silly prices - look at Cash (15 mill discussed) for Champ players and there is no guarantee on these.

Now we would do well to get half our money back for Robinson and Freeman. Yet if they were still in Champ and had done well last year we'd have to pay 10-15 million plus!I

I find it odd that players like Matt Doherty and Hoiberg (15 mill) can be got cheaper than say Watkins, Eze etc. These are established Prem players and it is quite odd. I know forwards can do for more but just my take on things. I thought the market would decrease but Champ players seem to be commanding silly fees even now. Whilst teams keep paying it then it becomes hard for us - that is why I am disappointed we are still not really exploring the foreign market at all. These are a punt too and have to settle in (and Covid does not help) but believe you can get more value for money in many instances.
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The Doherty thing really confuses me. Spoke to a Wolves fan today who is at a complete loss why he's so cheap. They're getting someone else in but for me he's one of the best in the league in that position. Scores and creates more than most midfielders as well.

I think it's one thing converting players from the same division or who are already in the squad. Another completely asking players to go up a division and change from their natural position at the same time. It never worked in League 1, I doubt it will work in one of the best leagues in the world.
 

Bladeinleeds said:
Not questioning wilder obviously but I would have liked to see us use the 10 a little more when chasing games and needing a little something different to break teams down.

although it’s a plan b - seems like it would have been useful to still have in the squad - as we don’t have that option now.
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There is a parallel universe where Wilder kept with the plan A and presumably went with McBurnie leading the line with two tens behind: Freeman/Robinson as the left-sided options, McGoldrick/Duffy as the right-sided options. At a guess there was a moment of realisation that this might have left us far more exposed – and he’s very likely right that we would have been. But it would have been interesting to have seen. It also would have meant Lord Lundstram wouldn’t have been a thing though.
 
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