Lowton to Villa £3m

[alcoblade]

Are you saying the massive wages Lowton must have been on were crippling the club and that getting him off the wage bill is going to save us ???

no thought not, although you might not agree with my views posting for the sake of an argument is silly at least be constructive with the reply.

Are you really thick, or just acting it?

It's not about his wages, it's about the several million pounds in transfer fee tht will be used to offset the money that the club is losing every year. Of course, you would rather McCabe did this, as would I. The difference is that I know I can't expect it.

Did I really need to spell this out?

UTB

 

[Princess Annes Dog]

Are you really thick, or just acting it?

Excellent opening remark, very good way of continuing a reasoned debate

 

[Kenilworth]

We are the new Crewe - a feeder team for those above us. Yet the new rules will mean we get no more than £100k per player in the future for all those under 24 we "sell"
We will be in this division for a long time to come - maybe just like Huddersfield

 

[TarquinDelouche]

You think you got worries? Today my wife left me, my dog died, I lost my job down the pit and I put salt in my tea instead of sugar*.

Jesus, some of you lot need to have a good long think about what you're going to going to write before making boobs of yourselves. We've sold a player. We haven't signed anyone yet. Did I make a mistake or does the season start tomorrow?

Oh, and I fail to see how a member of the "Be Reit" Brigade could ever be as annoyingly tedious as a member of the WE'LL BE RELEGATED AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE AND OH LOOK IT'S STARTED RAINING!! Troop

*None of these things actually happened.

 

[Princess Annes Dog]

You think you got worries? Today my wife left me, my dog died, I lost my job down the pit and I put salt in my tea instead of sugar*.

Jesus, some of you lot need to have a good long think about what you're going to going to write before making boobs of yourselves. We've sold a player. We haven't signed anyone yet. Did I make a mistake or does the season start tomorrow?

Oh, and I fail to see how a member of the "Be Reit" Brigade could ever be as annoyingly tedious as a member of the WE'LL BE RELEGATED AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE AND OH LOOK IT'S STARTED RAINING!! Troop

*None of these things actually happened.

Is there a point to this, or are you trying to be witty? Just for clarification of course.

 

[TarquinDelouche]

Is there a point to this, or are you trying to be witty? Just for clarification of course.

Excellent opening remark, very good way of continuing a reasoned debate

 

[metalblade]

Bradford could easily sustain a team in the Championship never mind league one and as KG says they came within a whisker of dropping out of the League. I don't think any Luton fans will ever think it can't happen again not so many years ago they were a decent team in the top flight, tradition, size and reputation of a club means bugger all if they don't have decent players. I'm sure if you think about it you can name a long list of clubs with great traditions who have fell out of the league one or two will be history like Bradford PA and at some point they all said it cannot happen to us.

 

[metalblade]

Are you really thick, or just acting it?

It's not about his wages, it's about the several million pounds in transfer fee tht will be used to offset the money that the club is losing every year. Of course, you would rather McCabe did this, as would I. The difference is that I know I can't expect it.

Did I really need to spell this out?

UTB

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question which I'll repeat a 3rd time ...............
How do we replace Lowton when wages are still over 65% of turnover ???

I would really have thought someone with your super intellect would have answered by now tick tock tick tock nearly 10 hours and still waiting tick tock tick tock your time would be better spent letting us all know rather than calling people really thick. You only make yourself look stupid.

 

[metalblade]

You think you got worries? Today my wife left me, my dog died, I lost my job down the pit and I put salt in my tea instead of sugar*.

Jesus, some of you lot need to have a good long think about what you're going to going to write before making boobs of yourselves. We've sold a player. We haven't signed anyone yet. Did I make a mistake or does the season start tomorrow?

Oh, and I fail to see how a member of the "Be Reit" Brigade could ever be as annoyingly tedious as a member of the WE'LL BE RELEGATED AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE AND OH LOOK IT'S STARTED RAINING!! Troop

*None of these things actually happened.

Same question................ same reply

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question which I'll repeat a 3rd time ...............
How do we replace Lowton when wages are still over 65% of turnover ???

I would really have thought someone with your super intellect would have answered by now tick tock tick tock nearly 10 hours and still waiting tick tock tick tock your time would be better spent letting us all know rather than calling people really thick. You only make yourself look stupid.

 

[metalblade]

THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING

ta ta for now

 

[TarquinDelouche]

How do we replace Lowton when wages are still over 65% of turnover ???

I would really have thought someone with your super intellect would have answered by now tick tock tick tock nearly 10 hours and still waiting tick tock tick tock your time would be better spent letting us all know rather than calling people really thick. You only make yourself look stupid.

First of all, I never called anyone "thick", second of all, well done throwing insults around - stay classy - , and third of all you don't have to be either thick or stupid to realise that whatever fee we just received for him would be added to the turnover, taking the current wage percentage down (65% of £10m being more than say... 65% of £9m).

 

[bartman]

Same question................ same reply


How do we replace Lowton when wages are still over 65% of turnover ???
.

How do you know that turnover is over 65% ?No one from either side of the debate(that includes me) seems to be able to answer this. However wouldn't it be sensible to see what the squad is at the start of the season before passing judgement ?

Also,unless I have missed it,I have yet to see a realistic alternative solution from you with regards to our current plight

 

[Foxy]

A question for those of you who can see no further than the ££££'s
Up until July we were free to sign whoever we wanted (much like Preston have done) but on the 1st July the fair play rules come into effect. So with us still having high earners Cresswell, Monty, Quinn and possibly Morgan still in the squad it is fair to say we are now unable to sign anyone until we trim the wages down to below 65% of turnover or we risk a penalty and maybe a transfer embargo.

Well we weren't really, given that we had to submit a budget and player costs to the league by the 25th June.

We could have potentially signed players within the same association, but given that most have contracts that run until 30th June, you don't usually see that happen all that much.

 

[alcoblade]

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question which I'll repeat a 3rd time ...............
How do we replace Lowton when wages are still over 65% of turnover ???

I would really have thought someone with your super intellect would have answered by now tick tock tick tock nearly 10 hours and still waiting tick tock tick tock your time would be better spent letting us all know rather than calling people really thick. You only make yourself look stupid.

OK, you've got me. The club have decided to sell their right back with no prospect of replacing him. No, really.

But it's not the point. Nobody is putting forward an argument that the garden is rosey. The point is our income doesnt cover our costs. Some of us accept the action that's required to counter that, others want someone else to pay for it.

Nobody knows what our wages to income income ratio is. You've constructed a theory that we now will not be able to sign any players because of this. My hunch is that you're talking complete bollocks again. I think this will be proven in the next few weeks.

UTB

 

[bartman]

Well we weren't really, given that we had to submit a budget and player costs to the league by the 25th June.

We could have potentially signed players within the same association, but given that most have contracts that run until 30th June, you don't usually see that happen all that much.

Does that mean we have to project a budget for the following season and confirm our wage budget based on this. ? If that is right, Portsmouth will have a substantial advantage this season as they are still due a parachute payment? (unless they lose it due to administration)

 

[Foxy]

Does that mean we have to project a budget for the following season and confirm our wage budget based on this. ? If that is right, Portsmouth will have a substantial advantage this season as they are still due a parachute payment? (unless they lose it due to administration)

I believe a budget has to be created based on the previous results and a realistic projection for the upcoming year. Whilst this can obviously be skewed/doctored I believe there are measures in place to regularly review these figures and structures should they be found to be totally inaccurate.

Pompey wouldn't get away with submitting a budget that reflects a massively over-estimated income.

What many people also seem to be ignoring, is that home grown players under 20 don't count in the calculations, which is why I expect us to follow through on involving more youngsters in the squad and why offloading the likes of Maguire wouldn't effect the percentage much, unless any transfer fee became a tangible part of the turnover/budget calculations.

Contrary to popular belief, the club aren't going into this blind, it was voted on for a reason and I've heard senior officials talk about the importance of adapting to fall within the newly welcomed parameters and re-building for the better long term, they aren't suddenly scrambling through the documentation to find out what we need to do.

 

[baggie192]

Business go into administration when they can't afford to pay their creditors. The administrators will then work out a deal for the creditors to get paid, but at a fraction of what they were owed. Since the vast majority of our debt is to McCabe it makes no sense for him to put the club into admin.


Serious answer to the "are we fucked?" question. No, but i think we'll be in this division for a few years whilst we can reorganise our finances.

Plus Mr McCabe couldn't put you into administration while the rest of his businesses are solvent. its against the rules of administration. He could sell you for a nominal fee and then the bank would foreclose if the new owner didn't have sufficent funding. But, if he's the main creditor that isn't going to happen

 

[Ollessendro]

£3m is hardly a whimper. I'd have sold him for anything above £1m, I didn't even think we'd get 750k.

(And yes i am aware that the £3m figure probably has clauses to meet before we are paid that figure)

This is where we disagree. You are willing to accept a fundamental lack of ambition, whereas I am not.

 

[Balham]

This is where we disagree. You are willing to accept a fundamental lack of ambition, whereas I am not.

Where does ambition end and bankruptcy begin though? Until a miracle happens and someone buys Montgomery, Morgan accepts the doctor's advice and retires and Cresswell accepts a huge pay cut we're stuck. As baggie192 pointed out, we've got a mediocre squad but worse, we've got a mediocre squad pulling in the wages of a good squad.

Roll on June 2013. Then the rebuilding can really begin and we can become the Phoenix Blades.

 

[Darren]

Where does ambition end and bankruptcy begin though? Until a miracle happens and someone buys Montgomery, Morgan accepts the doctor's advice and retires and Cresswell accepts a huge pay cut we're stuck. As baggie192 pointed out, we've got a mediocre squad but worse, we've got a mediocre squad pulling in the wages of a good squad.

Roll on June 2013. Then the rebuilding can really begin and we can become the Phoenix Blades.

As Revolution pointed out, I rather doubt that Cresswell is on that much. We signed him in Jan 2010 after the parachute payments had finished and when we were already pleading poverty and flogging off the assets (Walker, Naughton, Kilgallon etc).

Average second tier wages were only around £4000 or so a week (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ier-League-wages-FIVE-times-Championship.html) and whilst I accept that, as a top half club at the time, we would have been paying more than that, I can't see RC (given his age and thus relative lack of bargaining power), being on more than £6-8,000 per week.

 

[Wapping Blade]

This is where we disagree. You are willing to accept a fundamental lack of ambition, whereas I am not.

Are you going to fund that ambition, mebbes sell your shed collection?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

This is where we disagree. You are willing to accept a fundamental lack of ambition, whereas I am not.

Where does ambition end and bankruptcy begin though? Until a miracle happens and someone buys Montgomery, Morgan accepts the doctor's advice and retires and Cresswell accepts a huge pay cut we're stuck. As baggie192 pointed out, we've got a mediocre squad but worse, we've got a mediocre squad pulling in the wages of a good squad.

Roll on June 2013. Then the rebuilding can really begin and we can become the Phoenix Blades.

Balham says it all. We missed the boat last year and now we have to face up to the consequences.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Average second tier wages were only around £4000 or so a week (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ier-League-wages-FIVE-times-Championship.html) and whilst I accept that, as a top half club at the time, we would have been paying more than that, I can't see RC (given his age and thus relative lack of bargaining power), being on more than £6-8,000 per week.

That's still £300k - £400k a year, which is way more than we can afford in this division. Add Quinn, Monty, & Morgs to that, and that's probably nearly £2m a year going out on 4 players.

 

[metalblade]

That's still £300k - £400k a year, which is way more than we can afford in this division. Add Quinn, Monty, & Morgs to that, and that's probably nearly £2m a year going out on 4 players.

Add on to that interest on the £40m+ rumoured to be owed to McSue = another £3m per year and we have around £5m + going down the drain with little or no return. Talk about baling out the boat with sieves and colanders.

 

[Balham]

As Revolution pointed out, I rather doubt that Cresswell is on that much. We signed him in Jan 2010 after the parachute payments had finished and when we were already pleading poverty and flogging off the assets (Walker, Naughton, Kilgallon etc).

Average second tier wages were only around £4000 or so a week (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ier-League-wages-FIVE-times-Championship.html) and whilst I accept that, as a top half club at the time, we would have been paying more than that, I can't see RC (given his age and thus relative lack of bargaining power), being on more than £6-8,000 per week.

As Highbury_Blade says, £300-£400k pa on an ageing forward is ludicrous. Anything above £5k per week in this division should be spent on the best player in the league in that position. Richard Cresswell is not the best striker in the league - to be honest, would he get into any top half side in League One other than ours?

 

[Revolution]

Most of the arguments in favour of the Lowton sale seem premised on the basis that we are broke and need the money (obviously, the "fair play" regulations cannot be a reason for selling him, because he's a poster boy for a type of player that a club constrained by these regulations should be keeping).

I think this argument is either intellectually dishonest or ignorant. The facts are:

- the club is owned by a single individual
- that individual is, with the possible exception of those tightwad US hedge fund people who are inexplicably destroying Coventry, the wealthiest owner in league one.
- the club can (within the new rules) be as wealthy or as broke as the owner wishes: but it is his choice.

Lowton was not sold because we are broke. Lowton was sold because Mr McCabe would prefer to fund the club by selling its most valuable players, a strategy that has seen a healthy sprinkling of former United youth team players do well in the PL whilst we have enjoyed one of the 5 worst seasons in our long history.

I know, that's his choice. He does as he likes. But don't tell me there was no other way. There is.

Btw, as a aside, this is the third time that good players have been sold off after a playoff final defeat during Mr McCabe's reign. The team that lost the PO final in 2011 kept their best player, one Jordan Rhodes. Where are they now?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Lowton was not sold because we are broke. Lowton was sold because Mr McCabe would prefer to fund the club by selling its most valuable players, a strategy that has seen a healthy sprinkling of former United youth team players do well in the PL whilst we have enjoyed one of the 5 worst seasons in our long history.

Or that McCabe would prefer that the club be self sustaining?

 

[Darren]

That's still £300k - £400k a year, which is way more than we can afford in this division. Add Quinn, Monty, & Morgs to that, and that's probably nearly £2m a year going out on 4 players.

I don't dispute that £6-8K per week is overmuch for the 3rd tier (especially as average 3rd tier wages are less than £2K a week), I was just responding to the implication that Cresswell is on some astronomical 5 figure weekly salary.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I don't dispute that £6-8K per week is overmuch for the 3rd tier (especially as average 3rd tier wages are less than £2K a week), I was just responding to the implication that Cresswell is on some astronomical 5 figure weekly salary.

Either way, neither you or i know what his salary actually is. So it may well be a 5 figure one.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I don't dispute that £6-8K per week is overmuch for the 3rd tier (especially as average 3rd tier wages are less than £2K a week), I was just responding to the implication that Cresswell is on some astronomical 5 figure weekly salary.

Bear in mind that Cresswell was under contract at Stoke in the Premiership when we brought him on loan in September 2009. At the time we had just received £8m for Naughton and Walker, and before Cresswell was signed permanently we had sold Howard for 500k and Cotterill for 600k, as well as got rid of senior players like Hendrie, Bromby and Carney. I am quite sure that Blackwell was allowed to spend quite a lot, and at the time we prefered to spend our money on wages, not transfer fees - probably as the immediate expense doesn't seem too bad. We were then foolish enough to extend Cresswell's contract long before it was due to expire. My guess is 13k a week, not a problem if people don't believe that.