CONFIRMED Louie Marsh signs another new contract and loaned to Fleetwood Town

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

Yes but not sure what that has to do with my post.

Sorry I mis-read your post, I thought you meant how many have we loaned our who’ve not gone on to do better things.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I agree, but again I'm not sure what this has to do with my post. Ball_Sup (Phil) was suggesting that loans are pointless and we should be prepared to throw players straight into the first team; my point was that our system of loaning out players works well, and that based on where released players end up we seem fully justified in our assessments of youth players' ability.

I want to clarify. I am in no way suggesting we "throw" players straight into the first team. Particularly if they are not ready. What I am suggesting is that we should work longer and harder on their development in house, with the coaches we have, and the facilities we have. We should not think that Woking (or similar) will be able to develop them better because they play (checks notes) men's football. It's knee jerk, it's shallow and it's shit.

"Player X has scored Y goals in our Academy - oooohhhh he needs a loan to Woking"

As I said earlier, development loans have just become "a thing".

 

[UHLENBEEKS-RIGHT-BOOT]

Without proper Reserve football, development loans will always be a thing. There's no pitch for youngsters to be playing against and more importantly with professionals and keeping them in-house. I remember going to a Reserves game many years ago, we had the likes of Sandford, Hutchinson, Stewart etc all playing - We don't see that nowadays.

 

[Bristol Blade]

I want to clarify. I am in no way suggesting we "throw" players straight into the first team. Particularly if they are not ready. What I am suggesting is that we should work longer and harder on their development in house, with the coaches we have, and the facilities we have. We should not think that Woking (or similar) will be able to develop them better because they play (checks notes) men's football. It's knee jerk, it's shallow and it's shit.

"Player X has scored Y goals in our Academy - oooohhhh he needs a loan to Woking"

As I said earlier, development loans have just become "a thing".

I thought it was the case that all the players who go out on loan at non-league level continue to train with us?

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

Does it basically come down to the level that players go out on loan to.
When we took Gibbs-White, Doyle and McAtee we were a progressive, top championship side. If we are to loan our better youngsters shouldn't they be going to clubs like Southampton, Leicester and Norwich.
I'm not sure sending them to the likes of Port Vale, Stevenage etc teaches them an awful lot more than we could in house.

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

Does it basically come down to the level that players go out on loan to.
When we took Gibbs-White, Doyle and McAtee we were a progressive, top championship side. If we are to loan our better youngsters shouldn't they be going to clubs like Southampton, Leicester and Norwich.
I'm not sure sending them to the likes of Port Vale, Stevenage etc teaches them an awful lot more than we could in house.

Good point, likes of Marsh should be going out to Championship playoff contenders at worst. Sometimes we still seem to pick loan destinations for these kids as if we're still rattling around League One.

 

[Bennyand the Blades]

I think when loaning a player out the clubs are simply putting a promising player they have no use for in the shop window,....

 

[Champagneblade]

I want to clarify. I am in no way suggesting we "throw" players straight into the first team. Particularly if they are not ready. What I am suggesting is that we should work longer and harder on their development in house, with the coaches we have, and the facilities we have. We should not think that Woking (or similar) will be able to develop them better because they play (checks notes) men's football. It's knee jerk, it's shallow and it's shit.

"Player X has scored Y goals in our Academy - oooohhhh he needs a loan to Woking"

As I said earlier, development loans have just become "a thing".

To be clear, you are referring to development loans as in where we send to non-league because we can recall them more readily? I.e. not the same as genuinely loaning Osula to Derby where he will receive quality coaching and also play first team at a higher level.

Or are you against all loans of these lads?

Sorry if already covered just wanted to make sure I fully understood the scope of the comments here

 

[Bergen Blade]

Good point, likes of Marsh should be going out to Championship playoff contenders at worst. Sometimes we still seem to pick loan destinations for these kids as if we're still rattling around League One.

Someone said Ipswich want to buy him.

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

Someone said Ipswich want to buy him.

Seen that. I don't think he's one I'd want to be selling this year - not unless they're offering silly money. Which they won't be, because they're Ipswich, and because he's all potential no experience.

 

[Ludgblade64]

I don’t agree one iota with what you’re saying. You talking about a time 40/50 years ago - the game has evolved since then. Beyond recognition.

Football is still the same, the object of the game is the same, the rules are the same, it's quicker but still the same game, it is still about attitude, skill and tactics, it still about scoring goals, individual skill, the only thing that's got better are the pitches, diet, more money, training, lighter ball, playing in slippers, no tackling, professional referees, VAR, faking injuries, time wasting, etc etc but the game is still the same whether it's 1960 or 2023, I was still playing at 58, which is 12 years ago. Football is still a GAME, which ever way you look at it.

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

Football is still the same, the object of the game is the same, the rules are the same, it's quicker but still the same game, it is still about attitude, skill and tactics, it still about scoring goals, individual skill, the only thing that's got better are the pitches, diet, more money, training, lighter ball, playing in slippers, no tackling, professional referees, VAR, faking injuries, time wasting, etc etc but the game is still the same whether it's 1960 or 2023, I was still playing at 58, which is 12 years ago. Football is still a GAME, which ever way you look at it.

Again you’re wrong. Footballers (who we’re talking about) have changed beyond recognition over the last 40/50 years. They’re athletes now, they’re physical specimens and look after themselves better than they ever have done…this means competition based on physicality is as high as it ever has been. If some players lack that athleticism and physicality then it could be a good idea to send out on loan..think Mcatee and even Doyle in this context.

Also, football as a business has changed beyond recognition. Managers tenures are much shorter these days, there’s more pressure on them to get results and get results quick. They cannot afford to blood new youth players as quickly as we’d all like because if it goes wrong, they get sacked. This is why loans are key, it allows the manager to play their strongest 11 but the loans allow youth players the chance to get match day experience and all the other benefits I’ve mentioned in a previous reply to you.

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

Again you’re wrong. Footballers (who we’re talking about) have changed beyond recognition over the last 40/50 years. They’re athletes now, they’re physical specimens and look after themselves better than they ever have done…this means competition based on physicality is as high as it ever has been.

You make an interesting point.
Footballers are so much fitter and yet apart from the ball nothing has changed since the game started 150 years ago.
I'm just throwing this in for discussion, should we look at changing the size of the pitch, change to 4 x 20 minute periods with the clock stopped when the ball is dead, change the size of the goals.
Basically should the game change to keep up with the increased athletiscm of the players?

 

[Nick Jansky]

You make an interesting point.
Footballers are so much fitter and yet apart from the ball nothing has changed since the game started 150 years ago.
I'm just throwing this in for discussion, should we look at changing the size of the pitch, change to 4 x 20 minute periods with the clock stopped when the ball is dead, change the size of the goals.
Basically should the game change to keep up with the increased athletiscm of the players?

No.

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

No.

Fair enough.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

To be clear, you are referring to development loans as in where we send to non-league because we can recall them more readily? I.e. not the same as genuinely loaning Osula to Derby where he will receive quality coaching and also play first team at a higher level.

Or are you against all loans of these lads?

Sorry if already covered just wanted to make sure I fully understood the scope of the comments here

Don't mind me. I don't think I have much of a point beyond the simple. Loans are just fucking mad. Football is all about the players you have, that you can pick in the XIs (plural) that represent your club. In 2022/23, we played men's teams in seven different leagues in the FA system. Yet, the structure isn't apparently good enough to allow us to develop players without letting some other team, who don't "own" the registration of a player have him temporarily. On first football principles, loans are just mad. As ever, football wants to invent ever more layers of complication. Loans are one.

I suppose what really gets my goat are the comments on this forum....

Player scores goal in Academy football, posters say get rid of him on loan, he needs manball.

 

[Rudders]

Noone has mentioned it yet about the loans, but I think I remember Hecky talking about it. Key points:
-mens football. Dealing with Cloggers trying to snap you in half every game. Protect yourself, toughen up. Prove yourself
-develop as a person. Think you are a big star at Sheff Utd eh? Get yourself off to Rochdale or some other outpost, training on a school pitch, have to clean your own kit, other players earning 500 quid a week. Livelihoods at stake.
-Keeps you humble, have to earn your way to a senior start through some hard yards on loan. Have you got the drive?
-see the bigger picture, football and role in community, closer to the fans. Deal with the expectation.
-move away from mummy and the club. Can you cope without having smoke blown up your arse all day? How do you behave when in lodgings etc, do you demonstrate good character.
Rounded experience generally produces more rounded end product, more experienced, more capable.
There's loads of good stuff to be gained from the loans.

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

Don't mind me. I don't think I have much of a point beyond the simple. Loans are just fucking mad. Football is all about the players you have, that you can pick in the XIs (plural) that represent your club. In 2022/23, we played men's teams in seven different leagues in the FA system. Yet, the structure isn't apparently good enough to allow us to develop players without letting some other team, who don't "own" the registration of a player have him temporarily. On first football principles, loans are just mad. As ever, football wants to invent ever more layers of complication. Loans are one.

I suppose what really gets my goat are the comments on this forum....

Player scores goal in Academy football, posters say get rid of him on loan, he needs manball.

I think you’re misunderstanding some of the pro loan points. Loans aren’t mad but as an avid supporter of our youth system, which I know you are, you’re probably overly bias in favour of blooding youth into the first team. Don’t get me wrong, I am too, I’d love us to nurture our youth players through a’la Fergie of the 90’s, but managers aren’t afforded the time these days which is a massive luxury. What incentive does the manager have to blood youth players when the future of the club depends on getting to the promised land (prem) and that pot of gold? They have none, it’s not worth the short term risk. Instead, the loan system is their friend, it allows experience to be gained in a first team beyond the developmental leagues which, let’s face it, some of the better youngsters have outgrown.

Like I said before, we should be very selective and demand KPI’s are hit by the receiving club in terms of developing, strengthening and bettering the players we loan to them. Monthly reviews of the player’s development installed and a recall clause inserted meaning we can recall if they’re not hitting KPI’s or the club aren’t doing what they promised or if the player is exceeding KPI’s and deserves a shot in our first team.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Development loans are just a thing, that were never a thing, which have now become a thing, because football thinks it needs new things all the time.

Think back. How long has this idea of development loans been a thing? All them famous Blades of the past, whose development was cemented by a range of loans, yes them, all them from ten years ago or before, that you can't name, because ... well because, they weren't a thing then.

Development loans have gone from - what the fucks that to must have - in next to no time. That's football....

Kyle Naughton to Gretna and Kyle Walker to Northampton was 15 years ago.
Incidentally, Harry Kane’s loan moves to Orient, Millwall, Norwich and Leicester were all over 10 years ago.

 

[SouthportBlade]

Don't mind me. I don't think I have much of a point beyond the simple. Loans are just fucking mad. Football is all about the players you have, that you can pick in the XIs (plural) that represent your club. In 2022/23, we played men's teams in seven different leagues in the FA system. Yet, the structure isn't apparently good enough to allow us to develop players without letting some other team, who don't "own" the registration of a player have him temporarily. On first football principles, loans are just mad. As ever, football wants to invent ever more layers of complication. Loans are one.
I suppose what really gets my goat are the comments on this forum....

Player scores goal in Academy football, posters say get rid of him on loan, he needs manball.

Obviously you are much more well versed in academy football - but to flip this on his head.

Put yourself in Marsh’s shoes.

Would you want to keep banging in hat tricks against interior players and training with players you are much better than, in empty stadiums?

Or would you want to challenge yourself to play against better players, in different environments, in front on passionate fans, to whom results matter and make it break their weekend?

It works up the chain as well. McAtee returned to City a superior player than when he came. Take the ‘ManBall’ game against Luton, McAtee himself said it was a shock to the system and but of a wake up call that he needed

Not everyone needs a loan, nor will benefit from one. But a lot of players will thrive in a situation where they can put themselves against better players regularly.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Obviously you are much more well versed in academy football - but to flip this on his head.

Put yourself in Marsh’s shoes.

Would you want to keep banging in hat tricks against interior players and training with players you are much better than, in empty stadiums?

Or would you want to challenge yourself to play against better players, in different environments, in front on passionate fans, to whom results matter and make it break their weekend?

It works up the chain as well. McAtee returned to City a superior player than when he came. Take the ‘ManBall’ game against Luton, McAtee himself said it was a shock to the system and but of a wake up call that he needed

Not everyone needs a loan, nor will benefit from one. But a lot of players will thrive in a situation where they can put themselves against better players regularly.

That's exactly it Jonny d.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I obviously have not got my point across bluntly enough. Sorry. Let me have another go. Excuse my bluntness.

I do not give two fucks what is best for the first team.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the club.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the longer term plan.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the player themselves (in this case Louie)
I am a selfish fuck.
Who enjoys watching (in this case) Louie Marsh play NOW.
I give a little bit of a fuck what happens to him in the future, sure. But I enjoy seeing him play NOW.
I am hoping to next see Louie Marsh play for SUFC U21 on September 19 v Fleetwood Town.
I will not be able to do that if he's gone to Woking or ManBall Rovers on a fucking loan.

This is the Carrier Bag Firm creed - it includes the words FUCK and NOW.

I believe I have not given eight fucks, but redressed the balance slightly by giving a little fuck.

Again, forgive my bluntness. But my pussyfooting around the subject seemed to be misleading other posters who were responding in good faith.

 

[jt64]

Noone has mentioned it yet about the loans, but I think I remember Hecky talking about it. Key points:
-mens football. Dealing with Cloggers trying to snap you in half every game. Protect yourself, toughen up. Prove yourself
-develop as a person. Think you are a big star at Sheff Utd eh? Get yourself off to Rochdale or some other outpost, training on a school pitch, have to clean your own kit, other players earning 500 quid a week. Livelihoods at stake.
-Keeps you humble, have to earn your way to a senior start through some hard yards on loan. Have you got the drive?
-see the bigger picture, football and role in community, closer to the fans. Deal with the expectation.
-move away from mummy and the club. Can you cope without having smoke blown up your arse all day? How do you behave when in lodgings etc, do you demonstrate good character.
Rounded experience generally produces more rounded end product, more experienced, more capable.
There's loads of good stuff to be gained from the loans.

Fuck me, it's 1987 again

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

Noone has mentioned it yet about the loans, but I think I remember Hecky talking about it. Key points:
-mens football. Dealing with Cloggers trying to snap you in half every game. Protect yourself, toughen up. Prove yourself
-develop as a person. Think you are a big star at Sheff Utd eh? Get yourself off to Rochdale or some other outpost, training on a school pitch, have to clean your own kit, other players earning 500 quid a week. Livelihoods at stake.
-Keeps you humble, have to earn your way to a senior start through some hard yards on loan. Have you got the drive?
-see the bigger picture, football and role in community, closer to the fans. Deal with the expectation.
-move away from mummy and the club. Can you cope without having smoke blown up your arse all day? How do you behave when in lodgings etc, do you demonstrate good character.
Rounded experience generally produces more rounded end product, more experienced, more capable.
There's loads of good stuff to be gained from the loans.

I get the bit about playing mens football, toughening players up.
Marsh is 19, Jebbison and Osula both 20, not sure you are going to change their mindset, develop the hunger and their character etc, all of that comes at an earlier age. Mousset was a classic example, loads of talent but lacked the hunger and drive to be successful. You can't teach that.
Once a player reaches 19 or 20 we should be finding out if they have the skill to succeed, if their are doubts regarding their hunger for the game, at that age it is too late.
The opposite of Mousset is Ndiaye, who has worked and worked to get where he is now.

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

I obviously have not got my point across bluntly enough. Sorry. Let me have another go. Excuse my bluntness.

I do not give two fucks what is best for the first team.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the club.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the longer term plan.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the player themselves (in this case Louie)
I am a selfish fuck.
Who enjoys watching (in this case) Louie Marsh play NOW.
I give a little bit of a fuck what happens to him in the future, sure. But I enjoy seeing him play NOW.
I am hoping to next see Louie Marsh play for SUFC U21 on September 19 v Fleetwood Town.
I will not be able to do that if he's gone to Woking or ManBall Rovers on a fucking loan.

This is the Carrier Bag Firm creed - it includes the words FUCK and NOW.

I believe I have not given eight fucks, but redressed the balance slightly by giving a little fuck.

Again, forgive my bluntness. But my pussyfooting around the subject seemed to be misleading other posters who were responding in good faith.

Yes you are a selfish fuck.
How do you expect the next young potential star to progress into the u21 if players like Marsh aren't given the opportunity to develop their game and move on. As you move one out it gives the next youngster the chance to progress.
You can't hold players back in their development to satisfy your selfishness.

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

I obviously have not got my point across bluntly enough. Sorry. Let me have another go. Excuse my bluntness.

I do not give two fucks what is best for the first team.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the club.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the longer term plan.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the player themselves (in this case Louie)
I am a selfish fuck.
Who enjoys watching (in this case) Louie Marsh play NOW.
I give a little bit of a fuck what happens to him in the future, sure. But I enjoy seeing him play NOW.
I am hoping to next see Louie Marsh play for SUFC U21 on September 19 v Fleetwood Town.
I will not be able to do that if he's gone to Woking or ManBall Rovers on a fucking loan.

This is the Carrier Bag Firm creed - it includes the words FUCK and NOW.

I believe I have not given eight fucks, but redressed the balance slightly by giving a little fuck.

Again, forgive my bluntness. But my pussyfooting around the subject seemed to be misleading other posters who were responding in good faith.

I now understand why you don’t like loans.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Yes you are a selfish fuck.
How do you expect the next young potential star to progress into the u21 if players like Marsh aren't given the opportunity to develop their game and move on. As you move one out it gives the next youngster the chance to progress.
You can't hold players back in their development to satisfy your selfishness.

Look
I am a regular attender at Academy games. I freely admit I know very little about the so called technical side of analysis and potential. I freely admit the modern idea in football of constantly looking to "how we'll be in the future" - signings, contracts, player progression holds no interest for me. But, you will not find a more positive supporter of our Academy players in the moment than me. Once Louie has gone, King Kurt will naturally get my full and vociferous support. And, so will the fucker after him. And, hopefully, one day, I'll be shouting the roof off and blogging about some youngster in our Academy who has not even been born yet.

And, that's the sort of selfish fuck I aspire to be.

 

[Maidenhead]

I am going to speak the unspeakable minority view. I get my kicks going to games and watching football. I support the football CLUB, not the football TEAM. I want to see banging players, at the top of their game, playing in red & white, playing other players in different kits. I get a great thrill out of seeing the Boyes, the Havenhands, the Marshs playing for my CLUB at the appropriate level. I have no interest in hearing they're on Woking's bench.

As someone else has already said, it's a shame that we don't have reserve leagues any more.

The old Central League would soon let us see who was ready for a step up and who was definitely not, as well as letting injured players get back up to speed whilst playing competitive minutes.

 

[finlaytheblade]

O

I obviously have not got my point across bluntly enough. Sorry. Let me have another go. Excuse my bluntness.

I do not give two fucks what is best for the first team.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the club.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the longer term plan.
I do not give two fucks what is best for the player themselves (in this case Louie)
I am a selfish fuck.
Who enjoys watching (in this case) Louie Marsh play NOW.
I give a little bit of a fuck what happens to him in the future, sure. But I enjoy seeing him play NOW.
I am hoping to next see Louie Marsh play for SUFC U21 on September 19 v Fleetwood Town.
I will not be able to do that if he's gone to Woking or ManBall Rovers on a fucking loan.

This is the Carrier Bag Firm creed - it includes the words FUCK and NOW.

I believe I have not given eight fucks, but redressed the balance slightly by giving a little fuck.

Again, forgive my bluntness. But my pussyfooting around the subject seemed to be misleading other posters who were responding in good faith.

O K Phil you have a right to your opinion.
Do you not think that is a selfish way of looking at it.
The bigger picture is! development football is all about the future Marshy once past a certain age will have progressed or be released he has to move through to the next level.
I understand you like watching him and I look forwards to see him play for the Blades 1st team that is the aim for the club and just has important for the player himself.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

O

O K Phil you have a right to your opinion.
Do you not think that is a selfish way of looking at it.
The bigger picture is! development football is all about the future Marshy once past a certain age will have progressed or be released he has to move through to the next level.
I understand you like watching him and I look forwards to see him play for the Blades 1st team that is the aim for the club and just has important for the player himself.

I've precious little to add. I want to see players play, not go to Woking. I understand the dynamics. I'm not going to die on this hill. Lots of "fans" seem to have forgotten how to enjoy watching players play. They prefer to just list players on a whiteboard with different coloured pens and stickers. I used to do that. But it doesn't float my boat any more.