CONFIRMED Louie Marsh signs another new contract and loaned to Fleetwood Town

[SB_90]

Slew.

Came in and did well. If he’d have stayed a bit longer his career could have been totally different, given the good (albeit ultimately disappointing season), we had.

id forgotten about him, remember now he looked really good. particularly goal v Preston. but he was dreadful everywhere else after taking the money

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Because we are a striving club. A yo yo club. Always trying to go up, or stay up. We find it difficult to be a consolidation club. So, our policies drift towards the conservative. Get someone in. Proven track record. Check the price tag. And, our Academy lads get a bigger queue in front of them. They're blocked. Striving clubs prefer to gamble on a £20m "thing" who's been on the Tele. Rather than gamble on our own Academy.

The catch all response is ... (Insert current coaches name) sees him in training every day, he'll know whether he's ready...

Development loans have become a lazy approach to this conundrum.

 

[Barry Butlin]

I’ve been going since 1971, can’t remember a time when we had so many promising youngsters. Hope they all get long contracts so we get top dollar when we sell

 

[coolasanidiot]

Because we are a striving club. A yo yo club. Always trying to go up, or stay up. We find it difficult to be a consolidation club. So, our policies drift towards the conservative. Get someone in. Proven track record. Check the price tag. And, our Academy lads get a bigger queue in front of them. They're blocked. Striving clubs prefer to gamble on a £20m "thing" who's been on the Tele. Rather than gamble on our own Academy.

The catch all response is ... (Insert current coaches name) sees him in training every day, he'll know whether he's ready...

Development loans have become a lazy approach to this conundrum.

Know what you are saying, but I think that slant died with the 20m gambles on McB and Brew, both utter flops. So going forward I think there will be more gambles on academy kids- lets face it they can't do worse.

 

[I should coco]

Not sure why so many on this thread have a downer on loans.

I understand the adage that if they are 'good enough, they are old enough', but we can only afford to have a couple like this on the bench.

If* we do genuinely have a large crop of promising young players of similar age, surely its better they are playing proper football (National Lge, L2, L1), rather than easy games against poor U21 teams.

*I don't know if this is currently the case and of course we have heard it all before. Just remember, that the great youth team of 2011, only actually resulted in Harry making a genuine career for himself with us.

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

Don't mince your words will you, I learnt to play football with older players, you learn from your elders, he's 19, young people went to war to defend this country younger than 19, my father was 17. The loan system as become a joke, we should be playing our own young lads, that's the only way you gain experience.

What’s the war got to do wi owt?

The loan system is as good as the clubs make it. The system is fine, it’s the club’s decision on where a player goes and how they fit into a new system that is the key.

Take Mcatee, Henderson, Doyle and MGW for example, all of them thrived at the Lane because we pitched and presented a development plan to their home clubs And pretty much guaranteed they’d all come back stronger and better (which they did), if it wasn’t for their loan spells with us they’d not be playing where they are today or worth what they are today.

We need to demand the same responsibility from clubs wanting our players on loan.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Marsh got game time in pre season, and will have been training with the first team squad all summer.

If Hecky thought he had a chance of making the step up, now would have been the time.

Spot on! Posters are saying they know better than professionals who's job it is to develop players.
I like Marshy ever since I first saw ( I saw something TC used to do)him a few years ago.
His talent you can't teach just like Ndiah gifted!
The prince is all for youth coming through and he will have challenged Hecki about Marshi and others who look good prospects as I keep saying leave it to Hecki and coaches! The prince obviously accepts the way forward.

 

[bornablade]

What’s the war got to do wi owt?

The loan system is as good as the clubs make it. The system is fine, it’s the club’s decision on where a player goes and how they fit into a new system that is the key.

Take Mcatee, Henderson, Doyle and MGW for example, all of them thrived at the Lane because we pitched and presented a development plan to their home clubs And pretty much guaranteed they’d all come back stronger and better (which they did), if it wasn’t for their loan spells with us they’d not be playing where they are today or worth what they are today.

We need to demand the same responsibility from clubs wanting our players on loan.

I agree Doyle, McAtee, MGW thrived down at the Lane.

To develop your point further... what we need is for our players to go to a club that has someone like Hecky in charge.

Oh hang on a second....

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Spot on! Posters are saying they know better than professionals who's job it is to develop players.
I like Marshy ever since I first saw ( I saw something TC used to do)him a few years ago.
His talent you can't teach just like Ndiah gifted!
The prince is all for youth coming through and he will have challenged Hecki about Marshi and others who look good prospects as I keep saying leave it to Hecki and coaches! The prince obviously accepts the way forward.

If the professionals job is to develop players. Why are they sub contracting that job to some fucker who works as a plasterer during the day and coaches Woking (for eg) on Thursday nights?

I find Development Loans a lazy kop out.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Because we are a striving club. A yo yo club. Always trying to go up, or stay up. We find it difficult to be a consolidation club. So, our policies drift towards the conservative. Get someone in. Proven track record. Check the price tag. And, our Academy lads get a bigger queue in front of them. They're blocked. Striving clubs prefer to gamble on a £20m "thing" who's been on the Tele. Rather than gamble on our own Academy.

The catch all response is ... (Insert current coaches name) sees him in training every day, he'll know whether he's ready...

Development loans have become a lazy approach to this conundrum.

I think it's the optimal approach to this conundrum. If you are a striving club, you simply can't rely on your academy to consistently perform at the level you need. Buying in players is a risk, but still more likely to give you what you need.

I admire clubs that are more in the consolidation model like Crewe. Even if they get relegated, or look really poor, they don't clog their squad with signings to address it asap.

Would we accept that as a fanbase? I doubt it, even if we had a sensible discussion regarding the pros and cons.

 

[Champagneblade]

id forgotten about him, remember now he looked really good. particularly goal v Preston. but he was dreadful everywhere else after taking the money

For every shake of the head at the Ebbrell money gone, it’s worth remembering the 1,000,000 of the Queen’s finest we got for Slew.

Very much a sliding doors moment.

Who knows what he could have been but certainly nothing really came of him afterwards or anything approaching a 1m pound player.

 

[DaveBassettsgoneonholiday]

For what it's worth I absolutely get the comparisons with Best, Edwards, Francis etc (young lads getting first team minutes) for wanting to chuck a young lad in to the first team if he's "good enough". One thing that may have been different about that (my) era is that these players I guess would have played a bit of reserve team football with their clubs. In other words, played against grown men, journeymen, cloggers, old pro's coming to the end of their career.... grown ups football.
Not sure if there's an equivalent for this nowadays for an under 21 without letting him go on loan somewhere to a lower league club to gauge if they're ready or not.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Meanwhile, let's encourage the club to spend 20m on Archer who hasn't kicked a ball in the Premier League in his life (unless I'm mistaken).

Well, not since Sunday

He played a few games before he went to Boro. So, although he may have kicked a ball in the PL, he hasn't kicked it, or headed it into the goal, which is really what we need from a £20m striker.

 

[UHLENBEEKS-RIGHT-BOOT]

I see him as our best prospect but not the shining light at this stage. I think we need to send him out to get games somewhere, maybe a league two level, it is still a massive step up from development football. Learn the fundamentals and assess in January/End of season. It's not fair to chuck him into this team which is inevitably going to be struggling an be low on confidence week in week out, that won't be good for his development.

 

[finlaytheblade]

If the professionals job is to develop players. Why are they sub contracting that job to some fucker who works as a plasterer during the day and coaches Woking (for eg) on Thursday nights?

I find Development Loans a lazy kop out.

I think you better take that up with the Prince or Hecki
What's the point of a development squad if you have no intention of giving them the best chance of .making it.
I can remember the days when players came through the youth team then reserves and hopefully first team football, im talking about
Woody Badger and Co, its changed a lot since then.
Clubs had reserve teams with players who rarely played for the1st team! Im talking of Des Thompson,
Denis shields and the like who rarely featured in the 1st team.
The end of the maximum wage put paid to that as Clubs won't carry player s not good enough to make a mark in the 1st team so that was the end of reserve team footy slowly being replaced by development squads so the chance to learn the game in mens football disappeared .
Loans have replaced reserve team football so the opportunity to play men's football receded.
Football has changed a lot and is far more professional than them days,really tough now for a young player to come through. Cream rises to the top and most really good players come through although some fall away and some really never maybe not get the best way forward (I think that's what you mean Phil.)

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I think you better take that up with the Prince or Hecki
What's the point of a development squad if you have no intention of giving them the best chance of .making it.
I can remember the days when players came through the youth team then reserves and hopefully first team football, im talking about
Woody Badger and Co, its changed a lot since then.
Clubs had reserve teams with players who rarely played for the1st team! Im talking of Des Thompson,
Denis shields and the like who rarely featured in the 1st team.
The end of the maximum wage put paid to that as Clubs won't carry player s not good enough to make a mark in the 1st team so that was the end of reserve team footy slowly being replaced by development squads so the chance to learn the game in mens football disappeared .
Loans have replaced reserve team football so the opportunity to play men's football receded.
Football has changed a lot and is far more professional than them days,really tough now for a young player to come through. Cream rises to the top and most really good players come through although some fall away and some really never maybe not get the best way forward (I think that's what you mean Phil.)

I am going to speak the unspeakable minority view. I get my kicks going to games and watching football. I support the football CLUB, not the football TEAM. I want to see banging players, at the top of their game, playing in red & white, playing other players in different kits. I get a great thrill out of seeing the Boyes, the Havenhands, the Marshs playing for my CLUB at the appropriate level. I have no interest in hearing they're on Woking's bench.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I am going to speak the unspeakable minority view. I get my kicks going to games and watching football. I support the football CLUB, not the football TEAM. I want to see banging players, at the top of their game, playing in red & white, playing other players in different kits. I get a great thrill out of seeing the Boyes, the Havenhands, the Marshs playing for my CLUB at the appropriate level. I have no interest in hearing they're on Woking's bench.

Phil ! the same goes for me and any Blade surely!
We have to trust the club with young talent ! Not done bad in recent times have we?

 

[Mojo]

Development loans are just a thing, that were never a thing, which have now become a thing, because football thinks it needs new things all the time.

Think back. How long has this idea of development loans been a thing? All them famous Blades of the past, whose development was cemented by a range of loans, yes them, all them from ten years ago or before, that you can't name, because ... well because, they weren't a thing then.

Development loans have gone from - what the fucks that to must have - in next to no time. That's football....

Stephen Quinn to Rotherham

 

[Mojo]

Billy Sharp to Rushden and Diamonds.

 

[Champagneblade]

You can make the argument that the best preparation for playing for Sheffield United first team is playing for Sheffield United first team!

Loans are also a way for clubs to stockpile players because they don't quite have the guts to blood them on their own watch and have them make those mistakes that come with it.

Meanwhile, let's encourage the club to spend 20m on Archer who hasn't kicked a ball in the Premier League in his life (unless I'm mistaken).

I do get if we have the chance to loan in a ready made player who has some track record but we have Osula, Jebbison, Marsh, Hackford and arguably Traore. How many more blockers do we need to put in front of them on the conveyor belt?

Look at us, we're Sheffield United. We're signing Cameron Archer.

Grow up!

 

[Ludgblade64]

What’s the war got to do wi owt?

The loan system is as good as the clubs make it. The system is fine, it’s the club’s decision on where a player goes and how they fit into a new system that is the key.

Take Mcatee, Henderson, Doyle and MGW for example, all of them thrived at the Lane because we pitched and presented a development plan to their home clubs And pretty much guaranteed they’d all come back stronger and better (which they did), if it wasn’t for their loan spells with us they’d not be playing where they are today or worth what they are today.

We need to demand the same responsibility from clubs wanting our players on loan.

What's the war got to do with it, these are footballers, so there in no danger to them, as was the young people that went to war, he's a young person, Currie(Watford at 17),Woodward, Salmons, Badger, Wagstaffe brothers, Ken Mallender, Mick Hill, Joe Shaw, and many more that came through the Northern Intermediate leagues and the Central leagues, all the young lads went from the central league to the first team, no loans, John Harris built some fantastic teams, if you was good enough you would be in the first team, with OUR own young players.

What's up with the young players of today, or the managers, there aim should be the first team, the players are already developed coming through the academies at the age of 7 to 16.

The players you talk about never got into their club teams, there are millions of young players that never get a chance, it's just a production line, I know a lot of players that have come through academies and been dumped by clubs.

It's like we are buying a players that's not even played in the premiership, and we can't give one of OUR own players a chance in the first team that is a natural goalscorer.

With the rising cost of transfers which is not substantially, clubs will have to turn to their own young players in the future

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

What's the war got to do with it, these are footballers, so there in no danger to them, as was the young people that went to war, he's a young person, Currie(Watford at 17),Woodward, Salmons, Badger, Wagstaffe brothers, Ken Mallender, Mick Hill, Joe Shaw, and many more that came through the Northern Intermediate leagues and the Central leagues, all the young lads went from the central league to the first team, no loans, John Harris built some fantastic teams, if you was good enough you would be in the first team, with OUR own young players.

What's up with the young players of today, or the managers, there aim should be the first team, the players are already developed coming through the academies at the age of 7 to 16.

The players you talk about never got into their club teams, there are millions of young players that never get a chance, it's just a production line, I know a lot of players that have come through academies and been dumped by clubs.

It's like we are buying a players that's not even played in the premiership, and we can't give one of OUR own players a chance in the first team that is a natural goalscorer.

With the rising cost of transfers which is not substantially, clubs will have to turn to their own young players in the future

I don’t agree one iota with what you’re saying. You talking about a time 40/50 years ago - the game has evolved since then. Beyond recognition.

 

[Bristol Blade]

Because we are a striving club. A yo yo club. Always trying to go up, or stay up. We find it difficult to be a consolidation club. So, our policies drift towards the conservative. Get someone in. Proven track record. Check the price tag. And, our Academy lads get a bigger queue in front of them. They're blocked. Striving clubs prefer to gamble on a £20m "thing" who's been on the Tele. Rather than gamble on our own Academy.

The catch all response is ... (Insert current coaches name) sees him in training every day, he'll know whether he's ready...

Development loans have become a lazy approach to this conundrum.

How many youth players who we released have ended up playing at or above the level we are currently at? As far as I can tell, the answer is zero.

The closest are probably Elliot Whitehouse and Regan Slater who look like they'll have good careers as mid-table Championship players. But there isn't really anyone at the moment who we have released where it looks like a terrible decision, even with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[puppet]

For every shake of the head at the Ebbrell money gone, it’s worth remembering the 1,000,000 of the Queen’s finest we got for Slew.

Very much a sliding doors moment.

Who knows what he could have been but certainly nothing really came of him afterwards or anything approaching a 1m pound player.

The real tragedy about Ebbrell is he gave one of the finest performances ever seen in a United shirt. Went off at half time and was never seen again.

 

[Champagneblade]

The real tragedy about Ebbrell is he gave one of the finest performances ever seen in a United shirt. Went off at half time and was never seen again.

His assist per game ratio will never be beaten! 1 assist in half a game.

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

How many youth players who we released have ended up playing at or above the level we are currently at? As far as I can tell, the answer is zero.

The closest are probably Elliot Whitehouse and Regan Slater who look like they'll have good careers as mid-table Championship players. But there isn't really anyone at the moment who we have released where it looks like a terrible decision, even with the benefit of hindsight.

Did we loan Ndiaye to Hyde?

 

[Bristol Blade]

Did we loan Ndiaye to Hyde?

Yes but not sure what that has to do with my post.

 

[Down the Channels]

Surely it is all about pushing these talented players to fulfil their maximum ability.
When McAtee came to us last season (and arguably Gibbs White the season before that), they were not instantly comfortable at that level.
A full season with us ensured they were.
They both went back to their parent clubs MUCH better players.
You could also argue the same case for Henderson.
There are other scenarios where the opposite has been the case - Seriki for example. He looked a shadow of himself when he returned.

Isn't it all about finding the right fit for the player, where we can trust the coaching staff there to develop them.

I do agree with the negativity of sending a young player to just 'any' league one or league 2 club though just to play 'men's football'. Not a lot of point to it if the young talent is kicked all around the pitch or bypassed with that teams tactics.

I would love to see Marsh have a chance in the first team and take it with both hands (i.e come on as sub and score twice in the last 10 minutes and repeat it a few times!!!!)
I have watched him live about 10-15 times now and is a joy to watch. He has an ability to be in the right place at the right time and can certainly finish.

He does need to build up strength.
But when you look at players like Cantwell who did OK when he came onto the scene (he is crap now), then I would say Marsh is better than that.

If we were still in the Championship he would be getting game time I think.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Yes but not sure what that has to do with my post.

It's the only way to measure a young players progress. Accepted there are young players that break through without loans and Marshy could be one of those!
Andre Brookes could be another !.it's Hecki and the coaching staff who determine that.

 

[Bristol Blade]

It's the only way to measure a young players progress. Accepted there are young players that break through without loans and Marshy could be one of those!
Andre Brookes could be another !.it's Hecki and the coaching staff who determine that.

I agree, but again I'm not sure what this has to do with my post. Ball_Sup (Phil) was suggesting that loans are pointless and we should be prepared to throw players straight into the first team; my point was that our system of loaning out players works well, and that based on where released players end up we seem fully justified in our assessments of youth players' ability.