Loan Updates

[Pinchy]

You have become your very own cheerleader and a caricature of yourself.

Keep abusing and belittling those posters that disagree with you and maybe have a different point of view. It suits you it really does.

These posters are fellow Blades whom you seek to alienate with cheap putdowns.

Keep up the good work. As if you could do otherwise.

I don’t alienate anyone with common sense. The idea that it’s more important to be local than excellent is one of the daftest of the legion of daft notions that emanate from some Blades fans. Not only daft, but indicative of something quite unpleasant, rather like Brexit.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I don’t want the same type of club as you and the other Bladey Boybanders, Woody. We’d have a mediocre to poor team full of local youngsters, run on Sunday League Under- 15 philosophies and principles.

We’ve never been a club self-sustained by local players, from Billy Gillespie to Tony Currie and back. In a world shrinking by the day, it ain’t gonna happen going forward, either.

You want youth football? Go and enjoy the 23s and 18s. Leave the first team to those of us that want it to do as well as it possibly can, unfettered by the ball and chain that is parochialism.

Little Louis now occupies a bench close to the bottom of Division Four and falling. His direction of travel is now assured. He’s not good enough; nowhere near.

Ironside..... Ironside.....

Pinchy, that reply was not for you in fact, so why reply? You're out of context for me and anyone who has watched big hearted Louis play these past 2 years. You are so out of date and out of context for those who are interested in supporting, yes supporting, any player who wears a Blades shirt and refrain from crucifying them from their key board.

A 'fan' who supported a player who chose not to play for his manager or the club shirt and never put a shift in for a full season and suddenly runed up to play when we had a new manager who transfer listed him and told him he was a lazy player. That plus no other club showing any interest in him when he was transfer listed.

Of course there are only tenuous comparisons and Coutts has come good, but if anybody deserved such attacks then he did in 2015/16.

Reed has just turned 20 years old and deserves our encouragement, the very least he does is give 100% for the shirt and his manager, always will, he's that sort of lad.

Pinchy, you are out of date, vindictive and sour sat on your self-built pedestal in front of your keyboard day in day out. Please stop answering my posts to other members of the forum though, nothing to do with you, you're 'out of context' old man.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I'll assume you've either misread or misunderstood what I have to say on the topic of the academy and academy players WWF . I certainly hope so anyway as I'm genuinely at a loss as to why you'd aim such a disrespectful post in my direction .

It was a post furthering the debate and a serious question, not intended as disrespectful in any way. How do we nurture young lads and play them in our first team. I see the complexities of the stage of the club and very respectfully complimented you on 'a super post' above as you know. You outlined all the barriers so how do we do it?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Super post. The board and the manager have a declared policy called 'Pathway for Youth'. You have outlined the complexities.

The first team always has to be pickef on merit. Without an extreme set of circumstance Brook would be starring at Chesterfield now. Belatedly it was decided he's good enough and he then got his chance because of 4 striker injuries. He was around to take his opportunity.

The real decision is when any lad is good enough to 'be around' to earn his place on the bench and then good enough to take his opportunities to earn a first team place. If hes not then he should be out on loan until he is.

Soon both Fleck and Coutts will be out suspended. Lundstram will get his opportunity. After January maybe Whiteman will be there to step in.

I'd hate us to decide Reed's and Whiteman's futures so soon. Lets see them perform in front of 26000 at Bramall Lane when they have 50 league games under their belts, then we'll know.

Brooks has fast tracked beyond anybody's perceptions. All lads ask is the opportunity to be in the frame when they've earned the right. Further signings from outside in January will reduce those opportunities. A manager has to be bold to play young lads especially when every game matters. By the second half of the season there may be less pressure if we are in mid-table perhaps. By next season will Whiteman be better than som of these imports? Could well be.

This was my other reply coolhandluke

 

[I should coco]

The idea that it’s more important to be local than excellent is one of the daftest of the legion of daft notions that emanate from some Blades fans

Your straw men again.

Nobody is saying 'local' instead of 'excellent'. Others are suggesting that a local lad with a feeling for the club is better than someone from 200 miles (or 2,000 miles) away. It goes without saying, that the local lad has to have the requisite skill and ability.

I have never seen anyone wanting players picked just becasue they are local. Reed for example played some decent games under Clough and looked a prospect. He hasn't come on and is now not exactly setting the fourth divison alight. This happpens with young players. Some develop, grow with the game and improve, others fall by the wayside.

Your continual derogatory remarks about 'Little Louis' do you no credit. A snide insult for the sake of it, is not the sign of a 'great man'.
Of course you know this as you clearly aren't daft, but your WUM personality disorder just has to keep kicking in.

Maybe see if you can go a whole week without posting something contemptuous about our academy players?

 

[Pinchy]

How do we nurture young lads and play them in our first team. You outlined all the barriers so how do we do it?

We don’t have to do it. It’s not an obligation or an imperative. This is hard, real-life professional football; not Sheffield’s Got Talent.

Excellent young players will prove themselves by outstanding performances in their age group. They are then selected for the first team. It might be half a dozen; it might be one; it might be none at all. The rest will fall by the wayside. It’s self-regulating natural selection. ‘Twas ever thus.

Alternatively:

 

[Pinchy]

Your straw men again.

Nobody is saying 'local' instead of 'excellent'. Others are suggesting that a local lad with a feeling for the club is better than someone from 200 miles (or 2,000 miles) away. It goes without saying, that the local lad has to have the requisite skill and ability.

I have never seen anyone wanting players picked just becasue they are local. Reed for example played some decent games under Clough and looked a prospect. He hasn't come on and is now not exactly setting the fourth divison alight. This happpens with young players. Some develop, grow with the game and improve, others fall by the wayside.

Your continual derogatory remarks about 'Little Louis' do you no credit. A snide insult for the sake of it, is not the sign of a 'great man'.
Of course you know this as you clearly aren't daft, but your WUM personality disorder just has to keep kicking in.

Maybe see if you can go a whole week without posting something contemptuous about our academy players?

Sure. Can others go a whole week without kidding themselves about young Reed? If ever a dead horse were being flogged...

 

[Woodwardfan]

We don’t have to do it. It’s not an obligation or an imperative. This is hard, real-life professional football; not Sheffield’s Got Talent.

Excellent young players will prove themselves by outstanding performances in their age group. They are then selected for the first team. It might be half a dozen; it might be one; it might be none at all. The rest will fall by the wayside. It’s self-regulating natural selection. ‘Twas ever thus.

Alternatively:

View attachment 31833

Except you are not in real life professional football, you are a fan and a forum member. Support don't damage, respect don't attack and personally insult young hopefuls, they are trying to forge a career and are entitled to expect encouragement.

Frankly if Brooks reads the tenor of your posts directed at his colleagues how do we hope and like some fans, even expect him to show any loyalty to our club and our fans when he gets the opportunity to grab the money or stay with us.

I don't do cartoons but can you imagine the images I would produce for you? I don't do personal name calling either, nor do I swear on here, but imagine how I could attack you sir.

I suspect Reed's father or uncle is a member on here. Imagine how he would just love to give you back some of your own medecine. Perhaps the truth is you don't hold any malice towards Reed, it's malice towards anybody who rates him and wishes him well, there lies the reality. It's not professional, real life football, it's social media animosity for the sake of it, keyboard warrior. What a cartoon that would make.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

The idea that it’s more important to be local than excellent is one of the daftest of the legion of daft notions that emanate from some Blades fans. Not only daft, but indicative of something quite unpleasant, rather like Brexit.

I have to say Pinchy, whilst you are often guilty of obnoxiousness and the over-use of straw men to emphasis this point at times, this post is excellent. It makes the point very succinctly and it is difficult to refute.


All that said, I think it's a daft notion held my a microscopic minority.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It's a cracking achievement. But the same question still remains unanswered . At what point do we as a Club make a decision on his future ? How long should we keep hold of Academy players in the hope that theyll eventually break into the first team ?

Whiteman is a great case in point . Is he good enough right now to replace Coutts Fleck or Duffy ? The answer is of course an emphatic no . But is he currently good enough to replace Brooks , Carruthers or Lundstrum in the first team squad ? The answer once again is no .

Now let's assume that in January we go out a strengthen the midfield even further .
This does 2 things . Firstly it means Whiteman will fall even further away from challenging for first team inclusion either as a starter or in the squad . And secondly it's a tacit agreement by Wilder et al that Whiteman still isnt good enough .

So at what point does the Club make a decision about whitemans future at the club ? I think it's wrong on a proffessional and personal level to keep farming Whiteman out for an indeterminate length of time in the hope he'll develop into a player who'll push himself into the first team reckoning . If he was 18 , fair enough , but in his early 20's it's surely a resounding no both for him and the Club .

I love seeing our Academy players playing for us just like everyone else does . I'm also one of the Academy's biggest adherents . But I also realise that there can be absolutely no room for sentiment here . We can only keep Academy players for a finite amount of time before making a decision on their futures . For me Whiteman , Reed etc should be given another 6 months max before the final decision on their futures is made .

Whiteman bossed it in League 2 and has had mixed reviews in League 1 with his most recent match seeing him score a hat trick. The evidence is that whilst he’s not a first team player for us yet, he’s not a long way off the standard. Coutts and Fleck are very good and he’s unlikely to shift them but we need a squad.


Carruthers seems better more advance (Duffy role) which means we look at Lundstram or moving Basham if Coutts or Fleck are out.

The sample size is small but from what I’ve seen so far, there’s very little between Lundstram and Whiteman (though they’re a little different in terms of style) and Whiteman is a couple of years younger and won’t be on a lot of money. If nothing else, he’s worth having as a back up squad player who could still develop and improve at minimal cost. I expect Reed to go on because I agree somewhat with the principle of your point that we can’t stockpile these lads indefinitely and Whiteman seems to be closer than Reed at present.


Let us also not forget though that with these lads, it can sometimes come almost all at once. Brooks was on the verge of being a Chestefield player and hadn’t looked like getting near our first 11 5 months ago (behind the likes of Jay O Shea). Now many want him starting every game and he’s considered one of our real match-winning options.


If Whiteman can just find that extra little step up that Brooks has over recent months, he could also be banging on that first team door very soon.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Like it or not Pinchy is saying what we all know to be true .

We all want our Academy players to go on to have glittering careers with us . Deep down though none of us wants to see us throw the young guns into the first team when they are clearly not good enough only to see them fall flat on their faces .

Do any of us really want to see the first team weakened in this way whilst seeing the hopes and dreams of some young player systematically dismantled in front of tens of thousands ?

No, I don’t think anyone does. I think there are differing opinions on which ones can cut the mustard though and to what extent. Would Brooks have played at Hillsborough and had the chance to deliver a MOM performance if Sharp and Donaldson had been fit? Probably not.


I’m not saying we should chuck all young players in to see how they go but sometimes, when a player has done well at all of the build up levels (U23s, out on loan etc.) they need that platform to show they can make the step up. Ben Whiteman appears to be very close to that point. I don’t feel qualified to say he should be playing for us. But, he impressed hugely in League 2 and seems to have something about him in League 1. That suggests he’s not a million miles off and if he continues to improve, he has to be close to being worth a shot.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I'll put my tin hat on here , but I'm still not fully convinced by Brooks .

I don’t think it’s necessary for anyone to be “fully convinced” by a young lad in his first few appearances at first team level. All we really need to see at this stage is that they’re not out of their depth and that they can bring something to the team. The next step is to continue to make it hard for the manager to drop them and to keep improving.


Brooks has done very well in his first steps on the professional ladder (2 MOM awards in his first 2 senior starts). It then becomes about kicking on, proving he can be consistent etc.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

That’s Bladey Boyband Blasphemy! As it happens, I am, but he’s certainly not the finished article. He has a great deal to learn.

If we kept all the young tyros, to see how they develop, as long as the BBs would like, we’d have a squad of about 500, most of them with long grey beards, no teeth and fucking walking frames. Why, oh why did we release Jordan Chappell, Local Joe and McFadz so prematurely? They cudda bin contenders...

I don’t think more than 1 or 2% of our fanbase would have had a problem with releasing the likes of Ironside. McFadzean or Chappell. They got to make the odd appearance to see how they coped at first team level having done OK at youth level and ultimately, didn’t cut it. So they move on, fair enough. That’s the nature of the beast. Similarly, Slew, Maguire, Lowton etc. all did OK or better and were sold for significant fees. DCL, Ramsdale etc. sold for fees too despite not playing many games.


These lads need to earn it (impress at U23 and loan level) but when they do, they need to have that bit of faith shown in them to let them make that next step and show what they can do at first team level. We were a gnats bollock away from making a mistake with Brooks this year. It’s not an exact science and some will take to it better than others. Brooks doesn’t seem to have had particularly better reviews than the likes of Slater, Reed, Whiteman etc. in U23 games but he’s taken to first team football like a duck to water. It happens sometimes and you only find out by giving them that chance to sink or swim.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Clough may be interested if they go down but I doubt it.

The vast majority of players we release before they are 21 go into non league football. I can think of only 3 of recent batches that are still playing league football. McGahey at Rochdale, Otis Khan at Yeovil and Diego on loan at Chesterfield. No one goes on to play Championship football.

McGahey isn’t one of our academy players but you know what, I think he just might go on to the championship some day. By all accounts was very good for Rochdale last season (looked decent when we went there back in March).


I liked the look of Ottis Khan as a youngster. A little surprised he’s not ended up doing better than Yeovil.

 

[Pinchy]

I don’t think more than 1 or 2% of our fanbase would have had a problem with releasing the likes of Ironside. McFadzean or Chappell. They got to make the odd appearance to see how they coped at first team level having done OK at youth level and ultimately, didn’t cut it. So they move on, fair enough. That’s the nature of the beast. Similarly, Slew, Maguire, Lowton etc. all did OK or better and were sold for significant fees. DCL, Ramsdale etc. sold for fees too despite not playing many games.


These lads need to earn it (impress at U23 and loan level) but when they do, they need to have that bit of faith shown in them to let them make that next step and show what they can do at first team level. We were a gnats bollock away from making a mistake with Brooks this year. It’s not an exact science and some will take to it better than others. Brooks doesn’t seem to have had particularly better reviews than the likes of Slater, Reed, Whiteman etc. in U23 games but he’s taken to first team football like a duck to water. It happens sometimes and you only find out by giving them that chance to sink or swim.

When they earn the chance, yes. That is their responsibility, not United’s. We don’t have to create some mythical ‘Yellow Brick Road for Kids’.

As a matter of interest, how many chances should we be prepared to give to how many kids? At the expense of how many points? Calamity George would be a good starting point.

At a time (and such times are historically rare)when we have a very good team, do we really want to disrupt that which is going well, by shoehorning youngsters in forrarun in the name of boyband parochialism? To what point or purpose?

 

[Pinchy]

McGahey isn’t one of our academy players but you know what, I think he just might go on to the championship some day. By all accounts was very good for Rochdale last season (looked decent when we went there back in March).


I liked the look of Ottis Khan as a youngster. A little surprised he’s not ended up doing better than Yeovil.

That’s because he’s not as good as you thought. In fact, he’s not very good at all. He’s mediocre at best, like the vast majority of Bladey Boyband favourites.

 

[Pinchy]

Except you are not in real life professional football, you are a fan and a forum member. Support don't damage, respect don't attack and personally insult young hopefuls, they are trying to forge a career and are entitled to expect encouragement.

Frankly if Brooks reads the tenor of your posts directed at his colleagues how do we hope and like some fans, even expect him to show any loyalty to our club and our fans when he gets the opportunity to grab the money or stay with us.

I don't do cartoons but can you imagine the images I would produce for you? I don't do personal name calling either, nor do I swear on here, but imagine how I could attack you sir.

I suspect Reed's father or uncle is a member on here. Imagine how he would just love to give you back some of your own medecine. Perhaps the truth is you don't hold any malice towards Reed, it's malice towards anybody who rates him and wishes him well, there lies the reality. It's not professional, real life football, it's social media animosity for the sake of it, keyboard warrior. What a cartoon that would make.

He’s not good enough Woody. Not even close. He’s at his level, right here, right now.

I’ll explain that to his family, friends, dog, iguana or anybody or anything else who or which is willing to listen rather than making three wishes. They’ll leave the consultation a little wiser, if poorer, than when they came in.

Why do you shut your eyes to the blindingly obvious? Even the youth team regulars don’t agree with you, but you sidestep that one.

Have a cartoon on me:

 

[AWetFlannel]

Why haven't people just started ignoring Pinchy yet like we have done to other thread-killing forum trolls to get them to fuck off.
Don't feed the troll...

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

A detailed analysis of the ages & development pathways of United's current First Team Squad reveals Key Facts.

ALL of the squad, 100% of them, have been, are now, or will be in the future, aged 20 years old.

ALL of the squad, 100% of them, were at some stage of their development not good enough for the First Team.

If you've got pipes, put those in. And Smoke....

 

[UnitedBlade]

McGahey isn’t one of our academy players but you know what, I think he just might go on to the championship some day. By all accounts was very good for Rochdale last season (looked decent when we went there back in March).


I liked the look of Ottis Khan as a youngster. A little surprised he’s not ended up doing better than Yeovil.

Agree.

There are a couple of others playing league football. Elliott Whitehouse came up with Lincoln. Seamus Conneely appears to be a regular at Accrington. Looks like League 2 is the best our released youngsters get to, it’s very competitive.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

No, I don’t think anyone does. I think there are differing opinions on which ones can cut the mustard though and to what extent. Would Brooks have played at Hillsborough and had the chance to deliver a MOM performance if Sharp and Donaldson had been fit? Probably not.


I’m not saying we should chuck all young players in to see how they go but sometimes, when a player has done well at all of the build up levels (U23s, out on loan etc.) they need that platform to show they can make the step up. Ben Whiteman appears to be very close to that point. I don’t feel qualified to say he should be playing for us. But, he impressed hugely in League 2 and seems to have something about him in League 1. That suggests he’s not a million miles off and if he continues to improve, he has to be close to being worth a shot.

Certainly shows the benefit of getting these youngsters out on loan for regular first team football. At least the management have a much clearer idea of their likely long term chances of making the grade for our squad.

 

[Pinchy]

Why haven't people just started ignoring Pinchy

Because:

I know what I’m talking about; challenge those who offer nothing but drivel; encourage common sense; support my football club fervently as I have for over fifty years; dare to lift my head beyond the wall at the end of Shoreham Street; love proper football.

I don’t:

Cap-doff other clubs whilst denigrating our own; ludicrously elevate players beyond their worth solely because of their place of birth; pretend our fans are the best in the land when a fair proportion are self-entitled, ignorant gobshites; spend other people’s money; wish upon a star.

I do a tough job on here, work hard and give great value for no remuneration whatsoever, never complain and this is the thanks I get...

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Because:

I know what I’m talking about; challenge those who offer nothing but drivel; encourage common sense; support my football club fervently as I have for over fifty years; dare to lift my head beyond the wall at the end of Shoreham Street; love proper football.

I don’t:

Cap-doff other clubs whilst denigrating our own; ludicrously elevate players beyond their worth solely because of their place of birth; pretend our fans are the best in the land when a fair proportion are self-entitled, ignorant gobshites; spend other people’s money; wish upon a star.

I do a tough job on here, work hard and give great value for no remuneration whatsoever, never complain and this is the thanks I get...

Pinchy there with the Bladey Tribute Act manifesto.
Salute.....

 

[Pinchy]

A detailed analysis of the ages & development pathways of United's current First Team Squad reveals Key Facts.

ALL of the squad, 100% of them, have been, are now, or will be in the future, aged 20 years old.

ALL of the squad, 100% of them, were at some stage of their development not good enough for the First Team.

If you've got pipes, put those in. And Smoke....

Precisely so. Are they all from Sheffield? That appears to matter disproportionately, I would say, to you.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Precisely so. Are they all from Sheffield? That appears to matter disproportionately, I would say, to you.

Happy to clarify. Doesn't matter at all to me where they were born nor bred. If I've given that impression, I'll apologise. And I'm correcting now. Will the Bladey Tribute Act accept that?

 

[georgebernardshaw]

Ignore the egocentric windbag, most of us have, and read the opinions of other forum posters who have valid points to make - these same posters don’t usually leave a nasty smell behind them

 

[Come from away]

Watched Whiteman in training last year and he did not look out of place working with Fleck and Coutts so, unlike Reed, I feel there is still an opportunity for him.

 

[mosbolad]

Because:

I know what I’m talking about; challenge those who offer nothing but drivel; encourage common sense; support my football club fervently as I have for over fifty years; dare to lift my head beyond the wall at the end of Shoreham Street; love proper football.

I do a tough job on here, work hard and give great value for no remuneration whatsoever, never complain and this is the thanks I get...

Oh dear, same old self important crap.

Pinchy on Adkins....

"Only in S2 would the fans even contemplate getting rid of a manager of NA's proven record of both achievement and performance after less than a season.

On the proposed appointment of Wilder.

It might be for silly Bladey Blades. The rest of the football community would look at his CV and beg to differ.

Nonentity. Fucking Bladey Bladey Nonentity. Read and learn.

He wouldn't get a mention if he had no United connections. He's a complete nonentity."

Imagine if the club had followed your sage pontifications.

Read and learn eh.......

Sorry to repeat a previous post but it puts in context some of the self righteous crap he spouts.

 

[sheffielder]

Oh dear, same old self important crap.

Pinchy on Adkins....

"Only in S2 would the fans even contemplate getting rid of a manager of NA's proven record of both achievement and performance after less than a season.

On the proposed appointment of Wilder.

It might be for silly Bladey Blades. The rest of the football community would look at his CV and beg to differ.

Nonentity. Fucking Bladey Bladey Nonentity. Read and learn.

He wouldn't get a mention if he had no United connections. He's a complete nonentity."

Imagine if the club had followed your sage pontifications.

Read and learn eh.......

Sorry to repeat a previous post but it puts in context some of the self righteous crap he spouts.

And to think, he does all this posting with no thanks or remuneration

 

[FinchleyBlade]

Because:

I know what I’m talking about; challenge those who offer nothing but drivel; encourage common sense; support my football club fervently as I have for over fifty years; dare to lift my head beyond the wall at the end of Shoreham Street; love proper football.

I don’t:

Cap-doff other clubs whilst denigrating our own; ludicrously elevate players beyond their worth solely because of their place of birth; pretend our fans are the best in the land when a fair proportion are self-entitled, ignorant gobshites; spend other people’s money; wish upon a star.

I do a tough job on here, work hard and give great value for no remuneration whatsoever, never complain and this is the thanks I get...

Really?

Because you come across as a bit of an egotistical, pompous prat.

To be honest.