Lack of professionalism

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

And that lot were finishing circa 8th ! What would we give today for a Paddy K, Del Geary, Morgs/Jags, Michael Tonge, even an Andy Gray who'd give you 12 goals a year.

Is that (the Adonis ) Paddy pre or post ‘cough medicine’ & his nose chewing exploits

 

[Sean Thornton]

18 to 35 year olds go out for a drink on a Saturday night and it's not acceptable?! When did that happen?

When we were 9th in the PL the fans would have been sucking the players off in the bars at 2am if they'd seen them.

New rule: Footballers are only allowed out for a beer if they are doing well on the pitch.

Wilder gets beer for players on coach journey home - what a manager!

Wilder let’s players have a drink - bastard

 

[Sean Thornton]

Mousset has always been unfit though, it's just he was scoring goals in a decent team before. Now he's fat and we're shit it's an issue that he drinks.

I'm not saying it's wrong to be upset by it, just that football fans have short memories.

Most would have let him drink champagne out of their belly button whilst fingering his bumhole at 4am on a matchday morning after the Man U game the other season. Now it's not acceptable for him to drink because he's crap and we are.

I told you that in confidence……

 

[jono_t2000]

Are you Prince Andrew's defence lawyer?

It was the same with the Mcburnie stomping incident, people rushed on here to say no it wasn't him just someone who looked like him.

People don't wanna believe what's right in front of their face sometimes.

 

[Ridgeway Blade]

How often do you watch training?

I don't, but if they are doing what it takes to be their best why are nearly all of them so much poorer than they were 18 months ago. Why are we so slow and off the pace?
I know confidence in sport makes a massive difference but we look so fragile and suspect last year had a profound effect on a lot of these players. I sincerely hope I am wrong but we will need to change soon.

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

Mousset has always been unfit though, it's just he was scoring goals in a decent team before. Now he's fat and we're shit it's an issue that he drinks.

I'm not saying it's wrong to be upset by it, just that football fans have short memories.

Most would have let him drink champagne out of their belly button whilst fingering his bumhole at 4am on a matchday morning after the Man U game the other season. Now it's not acceptable for him to drink because he's crap and we are.

Whilst I could indeed get enough champagne in my belly button to serve both the rest of the team and the U23's too I draw a line at the second part particularly because 10pm is my bed time and all I can think about at 4am is coffee.

 

[Keen Blade]

You can't make up for it unless you have a couple of months in a training camp away from the games. It's an absolutely essential part of the preparation for any cardio based sport. It's no surprise that every team runs all over us - particularly in two or three game weeks. Slav should ban players from the internationals and be putting all our them through double sessions in the international breaks to help catch us up. Whoever was in charge of pre season should've already been sacked.

There was a lot of talk about "not recruiting a manager in haste" and "waiting for the right man".
But the club was effectively asleep in the summer and when the players returned to the scene of Wilder's ignominious failure , when they needed a lift from a strong leader , the new management team were simply not ready to knock them into shape.
Wilder had been trying to leave since the previous November , when he & we knew relegation was coming.
New management should have been announced in May.

 

[Keen Blade]

There was a lot of talk about "not recruiting a manager in haste" and "waiting for the right man".
But the club was effectively asleep in the summer and when the players returned to the scene of Wilder's ignominious failure , when they needed a lift from a strong leader , the new management team were simply not ready to knock them into shape.
Wilder had been trying to leave since the previous November , when he & we knew relegation was coming.
New management should have been announced in May.

And we had a desperate financial need for promotion this season - each subsequent season it gets harder as the parachute payments ebb away.
I can't understand the club's lack of urgency.
Soon we'll be one of the poorest again in financial terms + what are the future chances of another "Wilder rise" on next to no money ?
It's as if the owner is just too remote + his proxy at the Lane is incompetent - just no common sense between them.

 

[Keen Blade]

Wilder gets beer for players on coach journey home - what a manager!

Wilder let’s players have a drink - bastard

For goodness sake , the alcohol is not the issue ... The issue is the piss-poor club senior management from November 2020 , culminating in a squad that has no hope of promotion in a season where immediate promotion is financially crucial.
A feckin shambles by a remote owner/board & hapless CEO.
Forget the football - look at the corporate governance which has been used to manage the hopes of 25,000 fans.
It's just amateur.
SUFC
Run by amateurs my entire lifetime.

 

[Bert]

A feckin shambles by a remote owner/board & hapless CEO

Remote owners...... Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City.

 

[Sean Thornton]

For goodness sake , the alcohol is not the issue ... The issue is the piss-poor club senior management from November 2020 , culminating in a squad that has no hope of promotion in a season where immediate promotion is financially crucial.
A feckin shambles by a remote owner/board & hapless CEO.
Forget the football - look at the corporate governance which has been used to manage the hopes of 25,000 fans.
It's just amateur.
SUFC
Run by amateurs my entire lifetime.

You’ve totally missed my point. The comment was about the fickleness of fans, in this case a few beers. When CW and the players were all pissed most were lapping it up. Now CW had somehow let it get out of hand.

It wasn’t a dig at him nor am l blaming him especially as I. Like most on here don’t know the facts.

 

[Sean Thornton]

There was a lot of talk about "not recruiting a manager in haste" and "waiting for the right man".
But the club was effectively asleep in the summer and when the players returned to the scene of Wilder's ignominious failure , when they needed a lift from a strong leader , the new management team were simply not ready to knock them into shape.
Wilder had been trying to leave since the previous November , when he & we knew relegation was coming.
New management should have been announced in May.

The only thing l’d query is half of the players don’t look like they give a monkeys, pretty much like last season, when Wilder couldn’t get a tune out of them either.

Watch the Blackburn equaliser, watch the players and the body language (c McNulty). You’d think it was the 5th or 6th, not 1-1.

 

[nopigfansintown]

There was a lot of talk about "not recruiting a manager in haste" and "waiting for the right man".
But the club was effectively asleep in the summer and when the players returned to the scene of Wilder's ignominious failure , when they needed a lift from a strong leader , the new management team were simply not ready to knock them into shape.
Wilder had been trying to leave since the previous November , when he & we knew relegation was coming.
New management should have been announced in May.

Wilder had already pointed out his red lines, and all but resigned at the end of the first Championship campaign. The climbdown from the board after Bristol was the only reason that the tearful Wilder stayed. The board would have been under no illusion that the same red lines were in place when discussions started towards the end of the second prem season. "If the plan doesn't change" is the Wilder quote that sums up the reasons for the denouement of
his reign. There is zero excuse for them not having a plan once they decided to cross those red lines, change the plan and contemplate the removal of Wilder. The problem is not necessarily removing Wilder (after all he's not the only capable manager in the world!) it's the lack of planning and contingencies when they decided to defenestrate, undermine or control him (this will depend on an individual's subjective opinion of his reign!).

Managers should already have been informally approached; the transfer committee should have already drawn up targets; players that we wanted rid of should have already been on a list - perhaps with names being circulated and negotiations on ins and outs already started. Legal advise on post Brexit targets (both players and management) should have been sought and understood. Pre season plans should have been in place - regardless of who the next manager was, with input from the remaining football staff at the club.
What we got was neglect and gross incompetence.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

You’ve totally missed my point. The comment was about the fickleness of fans, in this case a few beers. When CW and the players were all pissed most were lapping it up. Now CW had somehow let it get out of hand.

It wasn’t a dig at him nor am l blaming him especially as I. Like most on here don’t know the facts.

But the reasoning behind stopping the coach and buying the beer was simple, it was something totally unexpected, a shock to everyone on the coach, designed to change the mood/thinking and bring the team together after a defeat, as previously said, you can't revert to the same action time and time again, with the same players, it dilutes the effect each time, as the players know what's about to happen

 

[metalblade]

Getting pissed up in the early hours has never made anyone perform better the next day either physically or mentally is it too much to ask the players if they have a drink to do it in moderation? They can do what they want as far as I care out of season when they are off on holiday work and leisure should be kept separate. Some might say it is only football it doesn't hurt anyone but to me it is only the same as someone working in heavy industry you can't rely on someone who has been out on the piss. I once refused to work with a bloke who would regularly come to work Monday mornings chewing his face or sweating special brew the gaffer wasn't happy and it nearly came to blows between us, that one sorted itself out when he lost his job due to being caught drink driving one morning from the night before.

 

[Sean Thornton]

But the reasoning behind stopping the coach and buying the beer was simple, it was something totally unexpected, a shock to everyone on the coach, designed to change the mood/thinking and bring the team together after a defeat, as previously said, you can't revert to the same action time and time again, with the same players, it dilutes the effect each time, as the players know what's about to happen

I haven’t suggested that. Now Wilder isn’t flavour of the month, he’s involved in a drinking culture when before, many were seemingly all for it when it suited the lads team spirit”

Enough to criticise him already.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

I haven’t suggested that. Now Wilder isn’t flavour of the month, he’s involved in a drinking culture when before, many were seemingly all for it when it suited the lads team spirit”

Enough to criticise him already.

Problem is, if it worked then, it's not working now, that's why people are questioning if it's an issue

 

[Sean Thornton]

Problem is, if it worked then, it's not working now, that's why people are questioning if it's an issue

Then SJ/the Club should deal with it. If it is a problem, it’s for them to clamp down. No good sitting down, ignoring it and saying “another cock up by Wilder”.

On the other side of the ITK coin, l read the other day that CW “made us £200m” and “ran the club from top to bottom” Which made me wonder why he didn’t get the hole in the fecking roof fixed?

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Whether we are winning or losing, clearly it is unacceptable for highly paid professional footballers to go out drinking or partying before games. Stopping the coach at an off license on the way back from an away game as a one off is one thing (and fine in the circumstances) but staying out late and drinking before games is Sunday League standard.

I want our players to be totally committed to the club and as fit as possible as this will give us the best chance of being competitive and winning games.

Unfortunately we’ve seen for the last 18 months that many of our players don’t give a toss. And the disconnect between fans and players continues to grow.

 

[Dark muffy]

I don't think it's Billy, I reckon it's a conspiracy. Someone obviously had cosmetic surgery to look like him.

I'm a bit shit at lookalikes and my suggestions usually get laughed at, but I'm convinced this time that Koke at Athletico is Billy Sharp, and if thats the case then its most likely him making videos and framing Billy. Not on really.

 

[Youngand70]

Ive said this before but a drinking culture crept in under Wilders reign. I've been told by certain people that in one press conference CW was even still partially under the influence.

Players who would also get on the booze with Wilder were also seen more favourable in the managers selections.

Don't shoot the messenger, just what I've been told. Not saying there is or isn't any truth in the above.

Wilder seemed pissed at most press conferences

 

[Keen Blade]

You’ve totally missed my point. The comment was about the fickleness of fans, in this case a few beers. When CW and the players were all pissed most were lapping it up. Now CW had somehow let it get out of hand.

It wasn’t a dig at him nor am l blaming him especially as I. Like most on here don’t know the facts.

I hadn't missed your point (which is valid about the fickleness of fans).
I was trying to widen the discussion away from the minor issue of a few beers to the general lack of professionalism in the club from top to bottom - a club/company which had a turnover of £250m in 2 years + seems to be run in anything but a professional way

 

[Keen Blade]

The only thing l’d query is half of the players don’t look like they give a monkeys, pretty much like last season, when Wilder couldn’t get a tune out of them either.

Watch the Blackburn equaliser, watch the players and the body language (c McNulty). You’d think it was the 5th or 6th, not 1-1.

Totally agree , they definitely don't give a monkeys - I'm trying to discuss why - it's not just a few beers that's the issue - i think the thread is called "lack of professionalism - it's starts at the top"

 

[Keen Blade]

Remote owners...... Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City.

If the owner is going to be remote , he/she/it needs to have good control via the Board or local Chairman or CEO.
We had his son-in-law for a while but I'm not sure what happened there or whether the poor kid had any experience in PL corporate governance

 

[Keen Blade]

Then SJ/the Club should deal with it. If it is a problem, it’s for them to clamp down. No good sitting down, ignoring it and saying “another cock up by Wilder”.

On the other side of the ITK coin, l read the other day that CW “made us £200m” and “ran the club from top to bottom” Which made me wonder why he didn’t get the hole in the fecking roof fixed?

Maybe the Board/CEO failed to make him aware that it was their job to do nothing much and his job to carry the entire club .... no wonder the poor fecker ended up with what amounted to a nervous breakdown .... being forced to choose between abandoning the club he clearly loves and literally doing everything including mending the bleeding roof.
He made mistakes , like any human , both in the transfer market & in dishing out long lucrative contracts to players who were bound to sit on their arse once they got them.
But a c£125m pa turnover club/company shouldn't have left every aspect of its business , especially in a new environment (the PL) , to one bloke , without providing any apparent governance or support.

 

[Keen Blade]

Wilder had already pointed out his red lines, and all but resigned at the end of the first Championship campaign. The climbdown from the board after Bristol was the only reason that the tearful Wilder stayed. The board would have been under no illusion that the same red lines were in place when discussions started towards the end of the second prem season. "If the plan doesn't change" is the Wilder quote that sums up the reasons for the denouement of
his reign. There is zero excuse for them not having a plan once they decided to cross those red lines, change the plan and contemplate the removal of Wilder. The problem is not necessarily removing Wilder (after all he's not the only capable manager in the world!) it's the lack of planning and contingencies when they decided to defenestrate, undermine or control him (this will depend on an individual's subjective opinion of his reign!).

Managers should already have been informally approached; the transfer committee should have already drawn up targets; players that we wanted rid of should have already been on a list - perhaps with names being circulated and negotiations on ins and outs already started. Legal advise on post Brexit targets (both players and management) should have been sought and understood. Pre season plans should have been in place - regardless of who the next manager was, with input from the remaining football staff at the club.
What we got was neglect and gross incompetence.

This is so true - and what has the club derived from 2 years in the PL ?
A clear corporate structure with someone scrutinising the CEO's performance ?
A better scouting system despite having Van Winkel in place ? What does he actually do ?
Did we waste time chasing foreign players who couldn't get VISAs ?
A better training ground or any prospect of one now that money is tight ?
Have we paid off the mortgage on the assets (for which we paid top dollar to Kevin because at that time we were a PL club) ?
Has the hotel opened ?
Any improvement to the squad of players ? (I accept that injuries to Berge & JoC are bad luck)
Have any of the facilities at the back of the Kop improved since 1992 ?
Have we managed to get the 2 parcels of land at the back of the Kop off Kevin ?
Have we still got posts on the Kop ?
Tell me one aspect of the club that has improved in any meaningful way since we had an injection of c£250m.
My Grandma fed a family of 5 in the 1930s on no money , but a damn sight more ingenuity than has been shown by those running my beloved club.

 

[Sean Thornton]

This is so true - and what has the club derived from 2 years in the PL ?
A clear corporate structure with someone scrutinising the CEO's performance ?
A better scouting system despite having Van Winkel in place ? What does he actually do ?
Did we waste time chasing foreign players who couldn't get VISAs ?
A better training ground or any prospect of one now that money is tight ?
Have we paid off the mortgage on the assets (for which we paid top dollar to Kevin because at that time we were a PL club) ?
Has the hotel opened ?
Any improvement to the squad of players ? (I accept that injuries to Berge & JoC are bad luck)
Have any of the facilities at the back of the Kop improved since 1992 ?
Have we managed to get the 2 parcels of land at the back of the Kop off Kevin ?
Have we still got posts on the Kop ?
Tell me one aspect of the club that has improved in any meaningful way since we had an injection of c£250m.
My Grandma fed a family of 5 in the 1930s on no money , but a damn sight more ingenuity than has been shown by those running my beloved club.

The starting point is to analyse where the £250m or however much it proves to be when the accounts come out , historically December time, has been spent. Genuine question, would the Kop and training facilities have improved our position?


Did Wilder want to control everything? Did the board let him, because if so, the board fiddled while Rome burned around them. Poor judgement on all sides, you can’t excuse Wilder totally, Who decided on the players we bought? Who had the last say, l find it hard to believe Wilder was left out on a limb by Bettis and is therefore blameless in all this. ( Despite the signings, l would still have given him a chance to get us back up because l believed in him. He obviously didn’t believe in the players anymore).

I think your breakdown comment is pretty much spot on. He was a broken man and it showed. To blame it all on the board however, takes the biscuit. Maybe it’s about all of them. Derek Dooley was a hoard level success at United because one of his major strengths was knowing his own limitations, and knew when to go. If the writing was on the wall after the first championship season, the board did a great job persuading him to stay because he took us up and gave us some more great memories. This is not all black and white, it’s certainly not Basset versus Charles Green despite what some would have you believe.

Have we moved on as a club? Clearly not. Let’s follow the money to find out why.

 

[Sean Thornton]

If the owner is going to be remote , he/she/it needs to have good control via the Board or local Chairman or CEO.
We had his son-in-law for a while but I'm not sure what happened there or whether the poor kid had any experience in PL corporate governance

His son in law wasn’t CEO.

 

[ghandi]

I don't think it's Billy, I reckon it's a conspiracy. Someone obviously had cosmetic surgery to look like him.

I agree his voice is about 3 octaves higher than Billy's.

 

[Keen Blade]

The starting point is to analyse where the £250m or however much it proves to be when the accounts come out , historically December time, has been spent. Genuine question, would the Kop and training facilities have improved our position?


Did Wilder want to control everything? Did the board let him, because if so, the board fiddled while Rome burned around them. Poor judgement on all sides, you can’t excuse Wilder totally, Who decided on the players we bought? Who had the last say, l find it hard to believe Wilder was left out on a limb by Bettis and is therefore blameless in all this. ( Despite the signings, l would still have given him a chance to get us back up because l believed in him. He obviously didn’t believe in the players anymore).

I think your breakdown comment is pretty much spot on. He was a broken man and it showed. To blame it all on the board however, takes the biscuit. Maybe it’s about all of them. Derek Dooley was a hoard level success at United because one of his major strengths was knowing his own limitations, and knew when to go. If the writing was on the wall after the first championship season, the board did a great job persuading him to stay because he took us up and gave us some more great memories. This is not all black and white, it’s certainly not Basset versus Charles Green despite what some would have you believe.

Have we moved on as a club? Clearly not. Let’s follow the money to find out why.

Genuine answer re the Kop & Training Facilities - No.
But either would represent some sort of tangible legacy from our hollow PL experience of apparently "spunking money" when Wilder had previously claimed he would guard the club's finances "as if it was his own money".
Of course he is not blameless but it was the club's money , not his , and the club gave him too much rope with which he eventually hung himself - how they could sign off on Brewster's Millions is a total mystery , for a player who'd never really played grown-up football.
The accounts for 20/21 should , as you say , be out at the end of the year.
I genuinely await your analysis , coz I won't have access and anyway I'm not as skilled as you at reading them.
The question of "weer's munneh?" (as is often posed on here) might crop up if we are hamstrung in the January window !