KEVIN MCDONALD

[Bergen Blade]

He only played 3 seasons in the PL didn't he? K-Mac already has 1 and I would wager that he will surpass 3 quite comfortably actually. He only left the PL because of a fall out with Brian Laws, otherwise he would still be there. He is the best CM in league one (by quite a margin as well) and will only go onto much bigger and better things at a faster rate than Sheff Utd will. He is the best CM in my lifetime, but my memory only stretches back as far as the mid-90s so there may have been better previous to that, I'm sure e.g. Currie.

My comments are made relatively speaking, and you should consider that too. We are in league 1, so maybe he isn't quite the player some of our top flight players were, but to not realise he is by far the best CM we could have hope for in league 1 is crazy IMO.

I also rate McDonald and think he could do well in the Premiership again if given the right type of role. But you should avoid bringing McCall into the debate because he was a fantastic player in his prime. Remember watching him against Brazil in the 1990 world cup and he was excellent, so much energy but could also play. He was a different type of player in his first season with us and played more of a holding role. His second season was, however, very poor, as his mobility was no longer good enough, even for a static, holding role.

 

[blader]

OK so lets piece this together. he is better than makeweights like McCAll and Montgomery, arguable and in the case of McCall disrespectful to someone who has international caps aplenty and played most of his career above the current place of KMac. Monty is lowest common denominator. What about Tonge? He was a decent midfielder and while different in attributes anyone who remembers that night against Liverpool or that free kick at the Sty or his integral part of our team over the years he was there would say he was far better than KMac. So perhaps we have had some decent midfielders. Oh and Michael Brown, Graham Stuart, Don Hutchison, Stephen Quinn. Just off my head and not necessarily all better but certainly not much worse.

Another piece of information we are often told is he was so good his passes didn't find team members because they weren't clever enough to make the runs. I have read that back and I still chuckle. After all, Porter could be a Premiership centre forward based on that logic because he makes runs that lesser players just can't spot. I hope that myth is debunked now. Because if that is the case I can still play at a decent standard. I can lamp a ball into a space that only a top player could spot, honest.

My own opinion of the player is that forgetting loyalty because that shouldn't be the issue, he was quality when he wanted to be. However, he was part of a team in a downward spiral. A top player would have gone up a division surely and not plumped for being a big fish in a small pond. Every team has them. I played with some very, very good players but they stayed where they were because they were scared of getting lost amongst better players. And that sums KMac up for me, big fish in a small pond, turns up when he fancies and no more or less. He isn't a poor player thats a fact but he isn't any better than most of what we have had in recent years.

Finally, Scougall and Cody are still 21 and developing. I think both will play at a higher level than MacDonald over a longer period. Why? Because they have talent and are prepared to work hard.

McDonald is a completely different player to Tonge, very difficult to compare. Would have K Mac over Tonge though. Ypou say they will play at a better standard, I disagree. McDonald has already proven he is good enough in the premier league as he started week-in week-out for Burnley in the premier league at just 21. He will also be playing championship football next season, whereas Scougall won't (can't say about Coady yet). McDonald is frustrating, he has the talent of a premier league player, but maybe not the application. Scougall has the application, but not the talent. Still think it's more likely to see McDonald in the prem than Scougall or Coady whoa re currently playing at the highest level they have to date.

 

[bartman]

So you don't think he is the best CM in league 1, I take it? Care to offer an alternate suggestion?

I see other teams once or twice a season so it would be unfair to judge. I also wouldn't pick a Blades player for obvious reasons. However,in our 1st season under DW when he was surrounded by good players,he didn't make centre mid in the PFA team of the year (Darren Potter and Johnnie Jackson were judged better than him by his fellow players). In addition,in that season Cresswell had more assists than him.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

You realise McDonald has already played a full season in the PL right?

Of course I do and I remember he was a roaring success, but we are discussing the merits and quality of current level 3 players. I'll rephrase it so you can offer a real reply rather than pedant avoidance. Of the two, the next to play in the PL will be Scougall not McDonald.

 

[Bladesway]

McDonald is a completely different player to Tonge, very difficult to compare. Would have K Mac over Tonge though. Ypou say they will play at a better standard, I disagree. McDonald has already proven he is good enough in the premier league as he started week-in week-out for Burnley in the premier league at just 21. He will also be playing championship football next season, whereas Scougall won't (can't say about Coady yet). McDonald is frustrating, he has the talent of a premier league player, but maybe not the application. Scougall has the application, but not the talent. Still think it's more likely to see McDonald in the prem than Scougall or Coady whoa re currently playing at the highest level they have to date.

Coady was captain of England U20's (I think) which says to me he has potential. Who does Coady have ahead of him at Liverpool where MacDonald had a dog and a goat in front of him in relative terms (Burnley).

I take your point and I don't think anyone is saying MacDonald is a bad player but to me he seems to be going backwards where all the others mentioned are/were moving forwards at that age/experience.

 

[bartman]

[QUOTE="blader, post: 586493, member: 2318". Would have K Mac over Tonge though. .[/QUOTE] You're not serious are you ? Tonge at the same age as KMac was streets ahead in terms of skill,goals,application and desire.

 

[bartman]

. McDonald has already proven he is good enough in the premier league as he started week-in week-out for Burnley in the premier league at just 21..

According to WIKI he started 15 games in the PL...hardly week in and week out

 

[JohnDenver]

Tonge at the same age as KMac was streets ahead in terms of skill,goals,application and desire.

A soggy Weetabix has more desire than Kevin McDonald. So much talent, so little application.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

The KMac i saw today sat in front of the centre halfs,rarely crossed the half way line and gave the ball away a lot (especially in the 2nd half). He rarely got a tackle in and when he finally did,he got booked.

Because of the way we now play,it meant KMac had no pressure on him when he picked the ball up outside his own box. Indeed,he rarely made an effective pass into our half let alone create a chance or attacking pass for the 5 in front of him who worked their bollocks off whilst KMac flattered to decieve.

Coady was not at his best today but didn't hide when the going got tough....unlike KMAC during the middle third of the game when he didn't touch the ball.

Kevin MacDonald......over-rated show pony

The KMac I saw today hid despite the fact that because of the way we now play he had no pressure on him when he picked the ball up outside his own box.

Made one move forwad which lasted about 5secs and made one decent pass to a forward.

90 minutes = 8 secs involvement.

 

[sitwell]

Better midfielders than KMac since the mid 90s?

Jags, Hodges,Tonge, Quinn(x2), Gillespie, 2 houses (White and Wood), Brown ...

He may look good at this level but I wouldn't rate him with any of above

Don Hutchinson ?

 

[oldblade]

McDonald is a talented player, but to my mind he is also a luxury player. Wolves can afford to have a luxury player because of the overall strength of their side. We are not yet strong enough to be able to accommodate such a player.

 

[blader]

Of course I do and I remember he was a roaring success, but we are discussing the merits and quality of current level 3 players. I'll rephrase it so you can offer a real reply rather than pedant avoidance. Of the two, the next to play in the PL will be Scougall not McDonald.

I am really surprised at this. Each to their own absolutely, but I fail to see your justification for Scougall being more likely to play in the Prem next. Firstly, McDonald will be playing in the championship next season, Scougall will be in League 1.

Also, Scougall has been a decent signing, but decent for League 1. He's not been amazing, so to say he can play Premier League is a very brave call. If a player is destined from Premier League football he would be in at least the championship at 21 (McDonald was already in the prem at 21 as a side note).

He is not standing out in a mid table league 1 side at 21 years old. Not a chance he will make it in the prem in my opinion.

 

[blader]

Taken from the 'view from' thread:

"McDonald is the best midfielder in the division"

"McDonald is a fantastic player at this level and I struggle to remember a Wolves midfielder so comfortable on the ball."

"McDonald was the best player on the park"

"McDonald is absolute class and been out player of the season comfortably."

"If Mcdonald doesn't play well we don't play well. Crawley for example."

Interesting.

 

[Woodwardfan]

There is room in most teams for a player like McDonald but it's all about playing him in the right position and playing to his strengths. Wolves are playing him deeper than the full backs and that is where he can have the time he needs. Weird planned to play him at No 10 but that would not have worked, he is too slow and does not have mobility.

Yesterday he generally played simple,short balls sideways and backwards, generally slowed the game down. What did surprise me we're the 3 lovely through balls and it struck me he needed the runners do enable that. In all our teams we are
never had intelligent movers up front while he was here, hence his appalling "assists" record.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Are you related to McDonald or something blader? I honestly can't see where all the love for McDonald is coming from.

I've only been watching United since the turn of the millennium but McDonald wouldn't even be in my top 5 midfielders.

 

[Harry's Game]

Kevin McDaonald made a Profesional decision to move to a club he felt had more money and better prospects, next season he will be playing in a team in the Mid Table (at worst) of The Championship, next season the club he left will be playing in the Mid Table (at best) of League one

He 100% made the right decision for himself and family.

 

[JohnDenver]

next season the club he left will be playing in the Mid Table (at best) of League one

I hope and expect that's nonsense.

 

[zablade]

Kevin McDaonald made a Profesional decision to move to a club he felt had more money and better prospects, next season he will be playing in a team in the Mid Table (at worst) of The Championship, next season the club he left will be playing in the Mid Table (at best) of League one

He 100% made the right decision for himself and family.

"next season the club he left will be playing in the Mid Table (at best) of League one"

Evidence for this statement?

 

[Harry's Game]

"next season the club he left will be playing in the Mid Table (at best) of League one"

Evidence for this statement?

30 + years of watching football week in and week out to know a promotion challenging side when I see one, this squad isn't now and will almost certainly not have have it's current three best players next season. (Maguire, Brayford, Coady

We are at least three seasons away from challenging for a top two position in this league.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Kevin McDaonald made a Profesional decision to move to a club he felt had more money and better prospects, next season he will be playing in a team in the Mid Table (at worst) of The Championship, next season the club he left will be playing in the Mid Table (at best) of League one

He 100% made the right decision for himself and family.

I prefer to think he's a spineless bastard who hasn't got an ounce of fight in him so he high tailed it to Wolves for an easier life.

 

[sitwell]

Kevin McDaonald made a Profesional decision to move to a club he felt had more money and better prospects, next season he will be playing in a team in the Mid Table (at worst) of The Championship, next season the club he left will be playing in the Mid Table (at best) of League one

He 100% made the right decision for himself and family.

Are you going to Wendys end of season party tonight ?

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I am really surprised at this. Each to their own absolutely, but I fail to see your justification for Scougall being more likely to play in the Prem next. Firstly, McDonald will be playing in the championship next season, Scougall will be in League 1.

Also, Scougall has been a decent signing, but decent for League 1. He's not been amazing, so to say he can play Premier League is a very brave call. If a player is destined from Premier League football he would be in at least the championship at 21 (McDonald was already in the prem at 21 as a side note).

He is not standing out in a mid table league 1 side at 21 years old. Not a chance he will make it in the prem in my opinion.

Indeed each to their own, and I understand your manlove for kmac but can't see how you think anyone in the PL would move for a player who:

Has definite talent, but fails to impose himself in most games
Has a questionable desire when a team struggles
Is poor when his team doesn't have the ball
Doesn't posses any real pace
Was shown to be totally out of his depth in a dozen PL games (he was young though)
Has question marks hanging over lifestyle

Your age limits for attaining the PL are frankly laughable, and as for Scougall well sometimes you can just spot a player with the talent, character and attitude to go places and he ticks the boxes. I said Walker would play for England after his debut against Orient, and I see similar in Scougall.

 

[blader]

Indeed each to their own, and I understand your manlove for kmac but can't see how you think anyone in the PL would move for a player who:

Has definite talent, but fails to impose himself in most games
Has a questionable desire when a team struggles
Is poor when his team doesn't have the ball
Doesn't posses any real pace
Was shown to be totally out of his depth in a dozen PL games (he was young though)
Has question marks hanging over lifestyle

Your age limits for attaining the PL are frankly laughable, and as for Scougall well sometimes you can just spot a player with the talent, character and attitude to go places and he ticks the boxes. I said Walker would play for England after his debut against Orient, and I see similar in Scougall.

Valid points, and don't disagree with most of them. We have certainly detracted from my opening point though. Do you think we would be in the top 6 now if McDonald was here all season? My answer would be yes, if yours isn't, well fair enough. That's football!

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Valid points, and don't disagree with most of them. We have certainly detracted from my opening point though. Do you think we would be in the top 6 now if McDonald was here all season? My answer would be yes, if yours isn't, well fair enough. That's football!

If McD had stayed your assuming Weir would have left instead?
Otherwise there is absolutely no chance of us being in the top six as Clough wasn't available at that time.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Valid points, and don't disagree with most of them. We have certainly detracted from my opening point though. Do you think we would be in the top 6 now if McDonald was here all season? My answer would be yes, if yours isn't, well fair enough. That's football!

No, the Weir factor was too great a burden to get over. Besides which, we won 10 on the bounce without him and frankly I don't think he's a Clough player. Attitude is a big thing with our Nigel.

 

[Pinchy]

30 + years of watching football week in and week out to know a promotion challenging side when I see one, this squad isn't now and will almost certainly not have have it's current three best players next season. (Maguire, Brayford, Coady

We are at least three seasons away from challenging for a top two position in this league.

Utter tripe (50 years +)

 

[blader]

So, I did a little routing around for the 2011/12 season. The following shows our results when McDonald DID NOT start:


Won 7 - (Yeovil, Oldham, Bury, Carlisle, Chesterfield, Scunthorpe, Brentford)
Drew 4
Lost 5

Giving us a win percentage of 43.75%. Not bad.

But when you consider that our other results when he DID start, show we:

Won 20
Drew 5
Lost 5

With a win percentage of 66%. All of a sudden a correlation begins to appear. I have also highlighted that only 2 of those sides we beat without McDonald finished in the top half that season, Carlisle (8th) and Brentford (9th). This, in a team where he was 'surrounded by good players' which, if they were that good, should have won comfortably with or without K Mac surely?

He also played every single game in the 2012/13 season (didn't know that until I checked it), where we finished in the playoffs. We then started this season with him for one game (which we won, and with a superb performance), he left and we only won 4 of the 22 games until January.

Now some may say stats are meaningless, and you may choose to ignore them. I think the evidence is fairly compelling though.

 

[true99blade]

So, I did a little routing around for the 2011/12 season. The following shows our results when McDonald DID NOT start:


Won 7 - (Yeovil, Oldham, Bury, Carlisle, Chesterfield, Scunthorpe, Brentford)
Drew 4
Lost 5

Giving us a win percentage of 43.75%. Not bad.

But when you consider that our other results when he DID start, show we:

Won 20
Drew 5
Lost 5

With a win percentage of 66%. All of a sudden a correlation begins to appear. I have also highlighted that only 2 of those sides we beat without McDonald finished in the top half that season, Carlisle (8th) and Brentford (9th). This, in a team where he was 'surrounded by good players' which, if they were that good, should have won comfortably with or without K Mac surely?

He also played every single game in the 2012/13 season (didn't know that until I checked it), where we finished in the playoffs. We then started this season with him for one game (which we won, and with a superb performance), he left and we only won 4 of the 22 games until January.

Now some may say stats are meaningless, and you may choose to ignore them. I think the evidence is fairly compelling though.

blader, give it a rest. I for one do not give one about McDonald anymore and what is all of the sucking up to him going to be achieving? I mean for goodness sake why don't we bring back another Ched thread?

 

[blader]

OK OK I'll shut up now. I rest my case!

 

[boo radley]

OK OK I'll shut up now. I rest my case!

Bollocks.
I have not had my say.
You are debating with 10/12 people? a lot of whom have stated they see KMc value. Points like ," if we'd have had him would we be top six?" seem pointless Since Ched got done.
Williamson scored 14 goals that season and had a load more assists than K Mc. A lot felt betrayed by that as as with KMc. He was not loved as much as KMc but contributed more. He moved on, Like a lot of players do, they show little loyalty (Kilgallon). Do you wish folks on here to say we would be better off with KMc? Probably most would say yes but think "fuck you KMc you did not appreciate us the fans so why should you get a praise when you come back?".
Fans want heroes they can latch on to and they are very rare these days, excuse us for not latching on to someone who has gone but latching on to the likes of Scougall ( who is likely to stay for a while) and Brayford (who we as fans want to show him how much we appreciate his efforts and want to persuade him to stay). If you love KMc and his contribution to football more than the Blades go and watch Wolves. I love watching Suarez but will always love the Blades more.
We celebrated 125 years Saturday, by 135 KMc will never enter 99% of Blades fans minds.