Jim Phipps on Facebook

[Barney]

It's your wordings of certain posts of late.

Any necessary quotes to back that up? Preferably more than one.

 

[derryblade]

I think that speech by Mr Phipps was a plea to put to one side all the issues that many fans are showing and stand together as blades and support the club.Have you ever heard a chairman of a business make such a plea to its customers he obviously here's all the anger
that fans feel about our currant situation. He almost opened the minutes to the meeting the board had with clough on that fateful day for clough when he was sacked,the atmosphere must have been toxic with what he has divulged he and the Board are accepting blame for allowing clough to waste money on unfit players and building a top heavy squad. That is some statement a very brave one and Mr Phipps deserves tremendous credit for laying the club's cards on the table .As a group how do we respond ? any true blade will see that to move fonward we have to stick together we all want the same thing (basically he is begging for time so that they can turn it round big bucks have been spent with more to come) as I said in a post earlier today it's going to be a very interesting January window

I can't get my head around the fact that a football manager had the power to acquire the huge amount of players on contracts that NC assembled without the owners/board being aware it was spiralling out of control. It doesn't add up, it borders on stupidity. Never mind they have said we wont let it happen again WOW, now I'll trust them embarrassing

 

[Sean Thornton]

Do you think they've cleared the debt yet Sean?

Which debt Woody?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Don't ask him about the accounts.

He get's all tetchy, especially if you display some knowledge of them.

The tetchiness only arises when people claim to know what they are talking about but spout rubbish about the actual realities whilst claiming to be able to read accounts, run a multi million turnover business, manage a league side and be well aware of bona fide would be investors for other clubs but none for the team he purportedly supports.

 

[Sean Thornton]

yeah, YEAH, I feel so motivated that a millionaire (co) running my club is so competent that he has to ask the fans how to do his job. On fucking Facebook.

So confident that this club is being run professionally and well managed,

Where has he asked the fans how to do his job?

 

[Top Cat]

Are you debating the fact that they're purely here to make money?

Do a bit of research to stop yourself looking silly and come back to me.

Their own words.

I feel that you have a gross misunderstanding of the word "investment" You appear to be confusing it with the word "benefactor"

Everyone calls for "investment" but if the investor dare to even attempt to withdraw or make any sort of a return on their "investment" let the dogs loose.

Are the Glazers benefactors or investors? Abramovich? Sheikh Mansour? Fenway Sports Group?

Find me one board or chairman that is not in it make money from the 92 Football League and Premier League clubs, then come back to me.

Find one benefactor. Should be easy.

 

[MobileBlade]

I think they have a clueless, but brave owner in the amount that he's invested.

It's exactly the sort of investment that's needed here. A dislike for a rival team won't prevent me from offering my honest views.

Although I'm not as oblivious as to not understand what you're trying to suggest, which is incredibly boring now.

I think it's a shame that a difference in opinion can result in such an accusation.

How much has he invested?

 

[bornablade]

Jim wants us to make suggestions - well here's mine. Everyone at the club should start to understand what it means to be a Blade.

Over the past 48 hours there have been plenty of clues for them to take on board. Look at the thread 'Basset Boys', similarly read why Paul Heaton became a Blade - 'it suited my underdog spirit'.

At present everything about the club is too sanitized. Even Nigel Adkins post match interviews are all cleverly scripted. Being a Blade Nigel is not just about the carefully staged singing of the GCB at the start of the match. Being a Blade is more than that.

As much as many may dislike Chelsea for what they stand for many of their fans are hurt

 

[Revolution]

A few random thoughts about this (sorry if I'm repeating things from the last few pages, I stopped reading after the debate became pointless and tedious):

1. My big takeaway from this is that it reinforces my opinion that there are too many people making decisions at the Lane who are not "tough enough". One of my big problems with the current regime, and the McCabe only one that preceded it, is the inability to say no to agents and players and other clubs re the sale of our best players, a failing which has proved ruinous. It turns out that this failing is repeated internally too - we have a system set up to evaluate the purchase of players (which I think is a good thing) but Clough does not co-operate with it, and yet still gets his way, with consequences which are causing obvious problems now.

The people on the Technical Board who did not follow their own rules and let Clough saddle us with a number of oft injured mediocre players were not doing their jobs properly. We do not know all the details but if I were running things I would replace them all. That is appalling management.

To answer one of Phipps' questions, the board need a league one version of Daniel Levy. Someone who doesn't care that people he's negotiating with don't like him. Someone who can say no internally or externally. Someone who will sell when its in our interests, not in Mark Rankine's interest.

2. Phipps is a lawyer, amongst other things. I don't know what sort of law he practiced, but any lawyer will tell you that you don't say more than you have to in your dealings with other parties, whether it be litigation, negotiation or whatever. Phipps should know this. There is IMHO a lot of information in that post which it might be better were not in the public domain. As I supporter I find it interesting and am glad he does it - but I am not sure it is in the best interests of the club. The Clough info and the details of the money are just 2 examples.

If I were in a position to tell Phipps what to do, I would tell him to get off social media and stay off it. Adkins knows how to do it - his press conferences are a masterclass in saying nothing. Don't give away information that might hurt you. So naive.

3. Asking for ideas as to how the board might do a better job sounds desperate and sounds like you're not sure that what you're doing is the right thing. That might be true, but don't tell the world that.

 

[raul]

For me there's a tacit admission that they've been done over by "football" people and the way "football" operates. The experience been expensive, painful and has resulted in this mulch of a squad. Whilst recognising a problem and actually solving it are two different things, I think we should be at least comforted to know they've got halfway.

The bigger question is - do you think this new found realisation is enough to sustain a real change, or just more free beer tomorrow stuff? Only actions will provide the answer, over to you James D.

 

[PeteBlade]

I feel that you have a gross misunderstanding of the word "investment" You appear to be confusing it with the word "benefactor"

Everyone calls for "investment" but if the investor dare to even attempt to withdraw or make any sort of a return on their "investment" let the dogs loose.

Are the Glazers benefactors or investors? Abramovich? Sheikh Mansour? Fenway Sports Group?

Find me one board or chairman that is not in it make money from the 92 Football League and Premier League clubs, then come back to me.

Find one benefactor. Should be easy.

I know the difference very well, thanks very much for smugly asking.

You've missed the point by 3 country miles, so I'll explain it again.

The person I was replying to speaks as Phipps and co and here for our benefit, like they've taken us on for a love of Sheff United and we should all be grateful as they are doing us a massive favour.

They aren't. They are here to make money from our football club.

And as Jim's status admits, they've messed up so far.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

He's just posted this to Facebook, thought those who don't have it might like to read.


I have upwards of 40 messages in my inbox, which this message is intended to address. I am sorry I cannot respond to all personally and I am sorry for the length of this missive.

Every Blade has his or her own view on the football so far this season. Some are patient. Some are not. Some teeter between hope and despair. And, frankly, given the inconsistency of the results, the diabolical nature of the competition in L1, the apparent weakness of the league this season ('it's there for the taking') and the fact that we have been in this league now for a fifth season (too say nothing of the environmental issues in the league such as the standard of officiating), the range of sentiments we are experiencing as a Blades family is all too understandable.

Personally, I think we -- the board, the management, the players, and the fans -- need to step it up, if we are going to get where we want to go this season: Automatic promotion. I am not blaming any one. I am just saying we all can do better.

In the spirit of taking responsibility for what I can take responsibility for on a personal level as your co-chairman, I thought I might take a minute to talk a little about what the board has done and is doing to improve matters.

I start by acknowledging that, we as a board are far from perfect. The board is, however, committed and continues to operate in a manner that allows the top football professionals we have at the Club (both on the touchline and in the front office) to make the core decisions about who wears the strip and how the football resources will be applied. Which positions do we need to strengthen? How quickly can we shrink the squad to a more rational, economical size, given the injury situation? What strength can we draw from our academy to serve the first team? Which players should be recruited and on what terms (loan, perm, price, etc.)? All such questions are left to our Technical Board (MD, Football Manager, FD, Academy Manager, etc.) to decide, provided they are within board approved budgets and other parameters.

That said, some of the current problems in the side (its size, for example) are byproducts of our trying as a board to be true to our approach, in circumstances where we allowed the Technical Board process to be thoroughly undermined by a gaffer, who was not interested in the process; hence, some of the excesses (recruiting in quantity, signing injured players, etc). We should have seen what was happening (the excesses, any way) and responded more quickly to address. Hindsight is 20:20. In appointing the new football manager, we specifically sought a gaffer who would help us re-establish a process that prevent the repetition of the same mistakes. I am very happy with the progress we have made on this particular and believe the fruits of the Technical Board process will show themselves over time, if we stick to the process.

On the football performance side, we have made a significant increase in the amount of communication between the board and the football management team. This has been very easy to accomplish owing to the open and communicative nature of the football management team. The amount of back and forth is healthy and the substance of the conversation is inspires confidence. For those who imagine that the gaffer's position is some how precarious or at risk, nothing could be further from the truth. Our confidence in Nigel Adkins is very high. We have the right man for the job. And the people he has brought with him are quality.

For those who have followed closely, you already know that, on the money front, HRH has, for his part, put in GBP 13 Million in the last 2.25 years, the most recent GBP 3 Million during the most recent close season. This capital injection has enabled the Club to do the things that enabled it to secure GBP 4 Million in cup winnings over the last two season (GBP 3 Million of which has been applied to first team football; and about GBP 1 million to Desso pitch at BDTBL and on new training pitches). The prince's investment has also allowed the Club to apply/allocate all (that's 100%) of the proceeds from player sales to first team football. In total, that's investment/re-investment of GBP 21 Million into the football club in a brief 2.25 year period. By L1 standards, that is a fairly substantial sum. (For those who imagine otherwise, the Club has not made a distribution of profits to owners, since we came in late Summer 2013, because the Club operates at a deficit year in and year out.)

During the months ahead, the owners plan to inject further monies into the club to ensure that the Club has every chance of achieving its goal of going up this season in the automatic positions. In all, investment/re-investment during the most recent three L1 season, including the current season, will top GBP 25 Million by season end.

We see Nigel Adkins and the team making progress. Perhaps the most important change so far is that we are playing every game to win. True, we are getting stung on the counter attack too frequently, and we're conceding goals too easily, but we are not setting ourselves up negatively for matches and the substitutions have consistently evidenced an intent to score. Are there issues still to be addressed? Yes. Do we have confidence that NA is the right person to address them? Absolutely.

At the board level, we love the Club. We back that up with substantial resources and an approach that leaves the footballing decisions to our very highly qualified, and carefully vetted front office and touchline professionals. We all want better performances and better results and they will come. Rome, however, wasn't built in a day. We see the problems. The gaffer sees what needs doing. We will get there.

- What do you think the board needs to do better to help the Club win promotion?
- What do you think management needs to do better to help the Club win promotion?
- What do you think the players need to do better to help the Club win promotion?
- What do you think the supporters can do better to help the Club win promotion?

Surely, we can all stretch a bit more to realise our shared goal. Let's talk to and about each other in a way that assumes that we all want the same thing and desire to do what's necessary to get there. We do not have to agree on everything, but we can safely assume we are in a common cause and talk to each other as friends, rather than as adversaries. Let's get united and be a strength to each other.

UP THE MIGHTY BLADES!

That's a lot of words to simply say we need a centre back.

 

[Large Mendonca]

I can't get my head around the fact that a football manager had the power to acquire the huge amount of players on contracts that NC assembled without the owners/board being aware it was spiralling out of control. It doesn't add up, it borders on stupidity. Never mind they have said we wont let it happen again WOW, now I'll trust them embarrassing

This too was something that struck me. I think what JP should have said is won't let this happen YET AGAIN. Didn't McCabe come out with something similar a few years ago, saying he had taken his eye off the ball leaving the managing director to mess things up ? (forgot who the MD in question was now). I think this time, they were all in awe of the Clough name, and they have taken their eye well and truly off the ball to be point of shitting circa 5-10M down the drain, and set us back 2-3 years. Don't let it happen AGAIN fellas.......

 

[Revolution]

This too was something that struck me. I think what JP should have said is won't let this happen YET AGAIN. Didn't McCabe come out with something similar a few years ago, saying he had taken his eye off the ball leaving the managing director to mess things up ? (forgot who the MD in question was now). I think this time, they were all in awe of the Clough name, and they have taken their eye well and truly off the ball to be point of shitting circa 5-10M down the drain, and set us back 2-3 years. Don't let it happen AGAIN fellas.......

Yes, and of course even if all this was new to Phipps, it should not have been new to McCabe and his people.

 

[Worksop II]

This too was something that struck me. I think what JP should have said is won't let this happen YET AGAIN. Didn't McCabe come out with something similar a few years ago, saying he had taken his eye off the ball leaving the managing director to mess things up ? (forgot who the MD in question was now). I think this time, they were all in awe of the Clough name, and they have taken their eye well and truly off the ball to be point of shitting circa 5-10M down the drain, and set us back 2-3 years. Don't let it happen AGAIN fellas.......

I can understand that, but their solution seems to be we fucked up, now we are gonna sit on our hands for 2 years while it rights itself.

I dont think Adkins should be hanstrung by what went off before he came, the guys who should pay the price are the Prince and McCabe

Those two should get this put right, whatever it takes, and now, and let Adkins get on with his task

In the current scenario, Adkins will be gone, sacked, pissed off, or tempted away to calmer waters, and the next guy will have a better shot at it

2 years wasted

If Adkins is the right guy, we as a Club should be as one in our convictions, those two are minding the pennies again, as ever it was, eh Kev ?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

That's a lot of words to simply say we need a centre back.

He could have called me back in June and saved a lot of heartache.

 

[Large Mendonca]

I can understand that, but their solution seems to be we fucked up, now we are gonna sit on our hands for 2 years while it rights itself.

I dont think Adkins should be hanstrung by what went off before he came, the guys who should pay the price are the Prince and McCabe

Those two should get this put right, whatever it takes, and now, and let Adkins get on with his task

In the current scenario, Adkins will be gone, sacked, pissed off, or tempted away to calmer waters, and the next guy will have a better shot at it

2 years wasted

If Adkins is the right guy, we as a Club should be as one in our convictions, those two are minding the pennies again, as ever it was, eh Kev ?

I hope Adkins is the right guy, although not convinced by his transfer dealings so far (Sharp excluded), i think he needs the time to "complete the jigsaw" (haha take that one Jim Phipps ) before we judge him.

With regards to the Prince & Co, i suppose we'll find out in the next year or so if this really is "game changing investment", or if they rocked up thinking £20m would be enough, and have wasted it all.

 

[BushBlade]

I feel that you have a gross misunderstanding of the word "investment" You appear to be confusing it with the word "benefactor"

Everyone calls for "investment" but if the investor dare to even attempt to withdraw or make any sort of a return on their "investment" let the dogs loose.

Are the Glazers benefactors or investors? Abramovich? Sheikh Mansour? Fenway Sports Group?

Find me one board or chairman that is not in it make money from the 92 Football League and Premier League clubs, then come back to me.

Find one benefactor. Should be easy.

Sheik Mansour and Abramovich. I don't see how they will ever recover their investment and don't see them making huge efforts to do so. Abramovich looks to be reducing his input as did Mansour, due to FFP restrictions. Several clubs were due to make a legal challenge of FFP and because of this, Platini was going to relax the rules, then the FIFA scandal broke and I don't know if it ever got resolved.

I'd suggest they are the only ones that clearly came in with the intention of 'losing' money, knowing they could afford to do so and that was what they wanted to spend their money on.
Others have lost money, like Lerner apparently, but I don't think he intended to lose the amount he did.

The lower leagues aren't reported as much so I don't know how many of them are subsidised by benefactors, or how many of those came in with the intention of being a benefactor. Matthew Benham, for example, has put a huge amount into Brentford but I don't know if he thinks he can eventually recover it, same as the Russian at Bournemouth.

Outside the PL, it's very difficult to make money out of a club and very easy to lose it. Seems to me to be a hugely risky way of trying to make money.

 

[Trigger Blade]

What makes you more of a supporter than the one's that actually try and do what they can to change the many things that are wrong with the club? Acceptance of mediocrity is a dangerous thing, and this is exactly what the owners are after.

A couple of questions barny:-

a) Who are the supporters who are trying to change things and how are they setting out to achieve their aims?

b) Do you have any evidence to support your extraordinary assertion that the club's owners want mediocrity to be accepted?

 

[Barney]

A couple of questions barny:-

a) Who are the supporters who are trying to change things and how are they setting out to achieve their aims?

b) Do you have any evidence to support your extraordinary assertion that the club's owners want mediocrity to be accepted?

A - Supporters that express their dissatisfaction with the failings of the club. It's these expressions that are read and responded to more and more often, it's especially the case with our Co-chairman with how active he is with social media among other things.

B - Look at the way Phipps has consistently tried to feed the fans his tripe and get them to support a view that blatantly ignores the core of each problem. All in the hope they are hypnotised by communicating with someone so high up at their football club.

 

[Darren]

A - Supporters that express their dissatisfaction with the failings of the club. It's these expressions that are read and responded to more and more often, it's especially the case with our Co-chairman with how active he is with social media among other things.

B - Look at the way Phipps has consistently tried to feed the fans his tripe and get them to support a view that blatantly ignores the core of each problem. All in the hope they are hypnotised by communicating with someone so high up at their football club.

Why on earth would the owners want mediocrity to be accepted? The only chance they have of making any money out of this whole sorry mess is if United get in the Premier League.

There are only two rational approaches the owners might have to the club

(a) making a reasonable effort to take the club up through the pyramid;
(b) thinking "fuck it, this club is costing me a fortune and is just not worth it, I'm out".

It's batshit crazy to think the owners are happy to be throwing good money after bad just so United can tread water in the third division.

 

[Sean Thornton]

A few random thoughts about this (sorry if I'm repeating things from the last few pages, I stopped reading after the debate became pointless and tedious):

1. My big takeaway from this is that it reinforces my opinion that there are too many people making decisions at the Lane who are not "tough enough". One of my big problems with the current regime, and the McCabe only one that preceded it, is the inability to say no to agents and players and other clubs re the sale of our best players, a failing which has proved ruinous. It turns out that this failing is repeated internally too - we have a system set up to evaluate the purchase of players (which I think is a good thing) but Clough does not co-operate with it, and yet still gets his way, with consequences which are causing obvious problems now.

The people on the Technical Board who did not follow their own rules and let Clough saddle us with a number of oft injured mediocre players were not doing their jobs properly. We do not know all the details but if I were running things I would replace them all. That is appalling management.

To answer one of Phipps' questions, the board need a league one version of Daniel Levy. Someone who doesn't care that people he's negotiating with don't like him. Someone who can say no internally or externally. Someone who will sell when its in our interests, not in Mark Rankine's interest.

2. Phipps is a lawyer, amongst other things. I don't know what sort of law he practiced, but any lawyer will tell you that you don't say more than you have to in your dealings with other parties, whether it be litigation, negotiation or whatever. Phipps should know this. There is IMHO a lot of information in that post which it might be better were not in the public domain. As I supporter I find it interesting and am glad he does it - but I am not sure it is in the best interests of the club. The Clough info and the details of the money are just 2 examples.

If I were in a position to tell Phipps what to do, I would tell him to get off social media and stay off it. Adkins knows how to do it - his press conferences are a masterclass in saying nothing. Don't give away information that might hurt you. So naive.

3. Asking for ideas as to how the board might do a better job sounds desperate and sounds like you're not sure that what you're doing is the right thing. That might be true, but don't tell the world that.

To be fair the financials will be released at some point, the 2015 accounts expected in December. Let's hope they tie in with Jins statements.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Sheik Mansour and Abramovich. I don't see how they will ever recover their investment and don't see them making huge efforts to do so. Abramovich looks to be reducing his input as did Mansour, due to FFP restrictions. Several clubs were due to make a legal challenge of FFP and because of this, Platini was going to relax the rules, then the FIFA scandal broke and I don't know if it ever got resolved.

I'd suggest they are the only ones that clearly came in with the intention of 'losing' money, knowing they could afford to do so and that was what they wanted to spend their money on.
Others have lost money, like Lerner apparently, but I don't think he intended to lose the amount he did.

The lower leagues aren't reported as much so I don't know how many of them are subsidised by benefactors, or how many of those came in with the intention of being a benefactor. Matthew Benham, for example, has put a huge amount into Brentford but I don't know if he thinks he can eventually recover it, same as the Russian at Bournemouth.

Outside the PL, it's very difficult to make money out of a club and very easy to lose it. Seems to me to be a hugely risky way of trying to make money.

Istm that owning a football club is often a status symbol eg owning a "Premier League" team is like paying £100m for a painting of flowers. I think there has to be an element of that in the Prince's spending.

Another model is the Jack Walker types who want, as they see it, to benefit the community. Is this McCabe's vision?

Neither case is a sound business model for returning a profit.

 

[Hartley Hare]

I agree Bushy, Pete is not thinking straight.

The owners of our club are captains of industry, wise and successful business people they would not risk millions of pounds on a football club investment. It does not make sense.

Sure, they would like to make a profit, but outside of the Premier League (and even within) that is highly unlikely. Football clubs are very very bad investments, with only a few exceptions.

If they wanted to make money there are easier opportunities.

HH

 

[Sean Thornton]

Why on earth would the owners want mediocrity to be accepted? The only chance they have of making any money out of this whole sorry mess is if United get in the Premier League.

There are only two rational approaches the owners might have to the club

(a) making a reasonable effort to take the club up through the pyramid;
(b) thinking "fuck it, this club is costing me a fortune and is just not worth it, I'm out".

It's batshit crazy to think the owners are happy to be throwing good money after bad just so United can tread water in the third division.

"Batshit crazy"

Think that nails it. There's a few on here and BM who put forward that playing in L1 is not only acceptable to the owners but is indeed a plan. There's been plenty of " they don't want promotion " posts over the years.

 

[Darren]

Istm that owning a football club is often a status symbol eg owning a "Premier League" team is like paying £100m for a painting of flowers. I think there has to be an element of that in the Prince's spending.

Another model is the Jack Walker types who want, as they see it, to benefit the community. Is this McCabe's vision?

Neither case is a sound business model for returning a profit.

I've said it be before but when you are so rich that you have serious trouble thinking of things to spend your money on, you might buy expensive pneumatic blondes, expensive yachts or a football club. None are bought with a view to making money. They are just fun things to spend your money on.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

To be fair the financials will be released at some point, the 2015 accounts expected in December. Let's hope they tie in with Jins statements.

Is there a.conflict in Jim's statement?

I can't easily see it on my phone but from memory he says spending is £21m - he also mentions a figure of £25m by the end of this season. Great that means we'll be spending £4m in the JTW I thought. Hmmm. Just to check I reread and it says the £21m is also by the end of this season.

So is it £21m or £25m? Am I missing something?

This is not a moan - I'm trying to understand the statement.

 

[Revolution]

"Batshit crazy"

Think that nails it. There's a few on here and BM who put forward that playing in L1 is not only acceptable to the owners but is indeed a plan. There's been plenty of " they don't want promotion " posts over the years.

It also gives them too much credit. That we are where we are is more due to incompetence than design.

 

[Revolution]

I agree Bushy, Pete is not thinking straight.

The owners of our club are captains of industry, wise and successful business people they would not risk millions of pounds on a football club investment. It does not make sense.

Sure, they would like to make a profit, but outside of the Premier League (and even within) that is highly unlikely. Football clubs are very very bad investments, with only a few exceptions.

If they wanted to make money there are easier opportunities.

HH

I agree with the broader point but the Prince is nothing more than the beneficiary of inherited wealth, rather than a wise businessman, isn't he?

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

All the deep debate on this thread would be solved with the signing of a half decent centre half. Top and bottom of it.