Jan Van Winckel

[Chabuddy G]

Yes he is the head of our technical commission together with the head coach and some advisors. Together they decide who is brought in but Van Winckel has a key role in that commission. Holzhauser, Suzuki, Coulibaly have been brilliant transfers. Holzhauser costed nothing since he was out of contract when we signed him. Suzuki was the top scorer of the Japanese league and he costed 1.5 million and Coulibaly we normally would have bought for 1.2 million but then a bidding war started with Club Bugge and Galatasaray and then you guys stepped in with an offer of 2.3 million and with the loan construction. At first I was sceptical but now I have to admit fantastic things are happening and I would trust Van Winckel to bring you some foreign players next transfer window.

I didn't know how much he actually had to do with those transfers but that's brilliant.

Let's not forget Coulibaly is our lad before you get too attached...

 

[ancientblade]

were definetly missing a trick with the foreign market seems to be much better value there but lets not forget were buying championship players because were only paying championship salaries and there lies the big problem for us at this time we cant match any other club in the premier league on wages and thats why weve missed some vital targets having said that if we do go down we will have the best squad in the championship even assuming 2 or 3 will be sold

 

[Chabuddy G]

were definetly missing a trick with the foreign market seems to be much better value there but lets not forget were buying championship players because were only paying championship salaries and there lies the big problem for us at this time we cant match any other club in the premier league on wages and thats why weve missed some vital targets having said that if we do go down we will have the best squad in the championship even assuming 2 or 3 will be sold

The lads in the Belgian, Austrian, Polish, Czech, Russian and Swiss leagues are not even on Championship wages. Nor are 3/4th of the German and French leagues you can bet.

 

[PurpleRain]

I didn't know how much he actually had to do with those transfers but that's brilliant.

Let's not forget Coulibaly is our lad before you get too attached...

No problem, Nainggolan is our ex player and he is eying a return. When we deliver Coulibaly back to you we take Nainggolan

 

[INTERUNITED]

My understanding of our recruitment, is that Chris relies heavily on Paul Mitchell (the scout we headhunted from Chesterfield). His role at the club has been absolutely fantastic, up to getting got the Premier League. Unfortunately he had/has no idea what recruitment was needed at this level as it's beyond what he has been involved in previously, and our rise has been so rapid, that he didn't get time to prepare (which is why we've ended up with a lot of Championship level players). With hindsight, what was needed last summer was a top overseas scout (whether than be Van Winkle or whoever), but you can't really blame the club for relying so much on Mitchell with the success he's achieved with the players scouted previously. Hopefully we'll learn from this and won't make the same mistake twice.

 

[BushBlade]

The lads in the Belgian, Austrian, Polish, Czech, Russian and Swiss leagues are not even on Championship wages. Nor are 3/4th of the German and French leagues you can bet.

True but the vast majority of them aren’t good enough for the PL. The ones that are also get scouted by Bundesliga teams, Ligue Un teams, PL teams etc.

I’m not saying don’t scout Europe, of course not, but we’re still going to be faced with the same problem of competing against other clubs that are prepared to pay higher wages than us for PL ready players. You know that as soon as us, or any club, shows an interest in some player their agent touts them around other clubs and then you get the likes of Villa offering double what we can afford to pay.
So you start out trying to find a Kante and end up with a fucking Joelinton.

The truth is, there are no easy solutions that don’t involve spending decent money and, as per fucking usual, we’ve got an owner who hasn’t got the money to do that.

 

[metalblade]

That's usually how it is anyway, I'm not suggesting JVW takes full control of all ingoings and outgoings at the club and Wilder is just told to concentrate on the team, but the amount of money we've pissed up the wall can't be ignored

Sounded to me like JVW taking a leading role don't give the manager a lot of say in who he wants for the team, exactly what happened at S6 with Doyen sports and the hapless £20 note crusher. Strange when some of the only ones on this forum talking sense are Pork. I wonder why that is? Surely it is the state of the south Barnsley team who bought masses of attackers and foreign players on high wages who turned out to be duds because they were not properly vetted and required for the positions they played.

 

[Chabuddy G]

Sounded to me like JVW taking a leading role don't give the manager a lot of say in who he wants for the team, exactly what happened at S6 with Doyen sports and the hapless £20 note crusher. Strange when some of the only ones on this forum talking sense are Pork. I wonder why that is? Surely it is the state of the south Barnsley team who bought masses of attackers and foreign players on high wages who turned out to be duds because they were not properly vetted and required for the positions they played.

'It failed at Wednesday, it can't work for anyone else'

 

[Chabuddy G]

True but the vast majority of them aren’t good enough for the PL. The ones that are also get scouted by Bundesliga teams, Ligue Un teams, PL teams etc.

I’m not saying don’t scout Europe, of course not, but we’re still going to be faced with the same problem of competing against other clubs that are prepared to pay higher wages than us for PL ready players. You know that as soon as us, or any club, shows an interest in some player their agent touts them around other clubs and then you get the likes of Villa offering double what we can afford to pay.
So you start out trying to find a Kante and end up with a fucking Joelinton.

The truth is, there are no easy solutions that don’t involve spending decent money and, as per fucking usual, we’ve got an owner who hasn’t got the money to do that.

Of course we are, but as proven with Sander we can compete for the best talents as a PL club. Emanuel Dennis was a talent and went nowhere. We could've had him as a very lazy example,

 

[knowsnowt]

Bloody hell. We'll be serving mange tout wit pies next.

 

[metalblade]

'It failed at Wednesday, it can't work for anyone else'

Put it this way it wouldn't be much use JVW phoning CW and saying I have just bought you a RCB when everyone knows CW is desperate for a LCB. No one would be against JVW finding players and suggesting them to CW you know like a scout would do to quote your OP a more leading role would suggest JVW picking the players rather than them working together on recruitment.

 

[BushBlade]

Of course we are, but as proven with Sander we can compete for the best talents as a PL club. Emanuel Dennis was a talent and went nowhere. We could've had him as a very lazy example,

I’d consider Berge to be more of a good young prospect than a PL ready player though. We’re not even able to compete for the best signings in the championship, I watched West Ham v Villa last night, Bowen, Benrhama, Watkins; all getting paid more than we can afford. I can’t see it being hugely different in the European market.

 

[BushBlade]

Put it this way it wouldn't be much use JVW phoning CW and saying I have just bought you a RCB when everyone knows CW is desperate for a LCB. No one would be against JVW finding players and suggesting them to CW you know like a scout would do to quote your OP a more leading role would suggest JVW picking the players rather than them working together on recruitment.

Didn’t Martin Jol accuse Spurs of doing that? Something like “I wanted a wardrobe and they bought me a table lamp”?

 

[Balham]

Sounded to me like JVW taking a leading role don't give the manager a lot of say in who he wants for the team, exactly what happened at S6 with Doyen sports and the hapless £20 note crusher. Strange when some of the only ones on this forum talking sense are Pork. I wonder why that is? Surely it is the state of the south Barnsley team who bought masses of attackers and foreign players on high wages who turned out to be duds because they were not properly vetted and required for the positions they played.

It's not an either-or thing. What happens at every club in the Premier League, bar United and Burnley, is that the manager (or head coach) identifies an area of the team which needs improving then the technical committee (scouting) shortlists possible signings. The technical committee, headed by the DoF, then goes through that shortlist with the manager and targets the player(s) mutually identified.

What I think Chabuddy G is suggesting is not that van Winckel takes over player recruitment totally but that he's allowed to be involved in the recruitment process with the final say, as it should, sitting with the manager.

 

[finlaytheblade]

It's not an either-or thing. What happens at every club in the Premier League, bar United and Burnley, is that the manager (or head coach) identifies an area of the team which needs improving then the technical committee (scouting) shortlists possible signings. The technical committee, headed by the DoF, then goes through that shortlist with the manager and targets the player(s) mutually identified.

What I think Chabuddy G is suggesting is not that van Winckel takes over player recruitment totally but that he's allowed to be involved in the recruitment process with the final say, as it should, sitting with the manager.

As an experienced coach and director I would assume he has an input on recruitment

 

[Chabuddy G]

Put it this way it wouldn't be much use JVW phoning CW and saying I have just bought you a RCB when everyone knows CW is desperate for a LCB. No one would be against JVW finding players and suggesting them to CW you know like a scout would do to quote your OP a more leading role would suggest JVW picking the players rather than them working together on recruitment.

They don’t do things like that they work together

 

[finlaytheblade]

As an experienced coach and director I would assume he has an input on recruitment

As an experienced coach and director I would assume he has an input on recruitment

 

[Pedro Verde]

Sounded to me like JVW taking a leading role don't give the manager a lot of say in who he wants for the team, exactly what happened at S6 with Doyen sports and the hapless £20 note crusher. Strange when some of the only ones on this forum talking sense are Pork. I wonder why that is? Surely it is the state of the south Barnsley team who bought masses of attackers and foreign players on high wages who turned out to be duds because they were not properly vetted and required for the positions they played.

The link JVW has / would have would be nothing like the influence that Doyen had over the Pigs
If you read the posts properly nobody is suggesting the JVW takes over all recruitment duties from CW/AK
just assists in scouting players in the foreign market that may fit our system or positions CW would like to strenghten. Hes doing a pretty good job at Beerschot

 

[BushBlade]

The link JVW has / would have would be nothing like the influence that Doyen had over the Pigs
If you read the posts properly nobody is suggesting the JVW takes over all recruitment duties from CW/AK
just assists in scouting players in the foreign market that may fit our system or positions CW would like to strenghten. Hes doing a pretty good job at Beerschot

Isn’t he already doing that? Isn’t that how we found Berge, Verrips and maybe Coulibaly?

 

[8lade]

My understanding of our recruitment, is that Chris relies heavily on Paul Mitchell (the scout we headhunted from Chesterfield). His role at the club has been absolutely fantastic, up to getting got the Premier League.

I was getting ready to post this. It seems odd that people think Wilder does the scouting too, I'm sure as was proposed for the 'way to go', Wilder already says we need a forward, Mitchell goes off and scouts them comes back with the list tells Wilder the pros and cons. then we try and sign one.

Unfortunately he had/has no idea what recruitment was needed at this level as it's beyond what he has been involved in previously, and our rise has been so rapid, that he didn't get time to prepare (which is why we've ended up with a lot of Championship level players).

I disagree with this as already posted we haven't had the financial clout to bring in first choices.

 

[Pedro Verde]

Isn’t he already doing that? Isn’t that how we found Berge, Verrips and maybe Coulibaly?

Im not sure but hes signed a couple of gems for Beerschot for not much money
I know the Belgian League is not the PL but they have produced some good players over the last 5/6 years

 

[Stevo]

What's Van Winkel's record on player transfers? Has he signed some belters on the cheap? Made vast profits for his past clubs?

And isn't his name 'Jan'?

RIP, it's Rip

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Might be a bit of confusion between player identification and player recruitment.

Paul Mitchell has done an excellent job of identifying suitable players and Wilder trusts him enough to agree recruitment of these players.

JVW seems to have a similar record looking at the Beerschot identification and recruitment. Maybe Wilder isn't as trusting, maybe Wilder wants that additional, background information on character and squad integration that JVW doesn't provide. The politics of it all is what we aren't party to, but we need a system in place to be able to recruit abroad like Brentford, Brighton et al. Takes time, doesn't happen overnight but we need to start somewhere.

 

[robbiez666]

As long as Wilder still has a say in the matter, I'd welcome anyone with a good track record being involved. We obviously don't know the European market that well. If there's expertise somewhere else we can tap into then great. I'm not sure if JVW or Beerschot would feel the same about him working for us as well.

I have wondered since we signed Berge whose signing he was and how much say Chris had in it. He's clearly a quality footballer but he always looks the odd one out for us. Doesn't seem to naturally fit into the way we play.

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

I think CW clearly needs help when it comes to PL recruitment, so I'd have no problem with advice being given.

 

[nopigfansintown]

United already have a transfer committee which Van Winkel has had a seat at for several years. You've already got what you're advocating.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Yes he is the head of our technical commission together with the head coach and some advisors. Together they decide who is brought in but Van Winckel has a key role in that commission. Holzhauser, Suzuki, Coulibaly have been brilliant transfers. Holzhauser costed nothing since he was out of contract when we signed him. Suzuki was the top scorer of the Japanese league and he costed 1.5 million and Coulibaly we normally would have bought for 1.2 million but then a bidding war started with Club Bugge and Galatasaray and then you guys stepped in with an offer of 2.3 million and with the loan construction. At first I was sceptical but now I have to admit fantastic things are happening and I would trust Van Winckel to bring you some foreign players next transfer window.

Exactly the same setup United have already.

 

[ancientblade]

until we can compete salary wise with other clubs in the premier league its pointless us being in it we will just be yet another yoyo team getting promoted then going back down to the championship chris wilder cant keep pulling rabbits out of the hat without major financial help

 

[Pedro Verde]

United already have a transfer committee which Van Winkel has had a seat at for several years. You've already got what you're advocating.

Have we though ?
JVW seems to have picked up some smart signings for Beerschot for a tiny fraction of what we have spent
I know the PL is obviously a higher level than the Belgian League but there are baragins to be had

 

[AdamSufc1997]

Definitely needs to get involved in the transfers. The £100m+ we've just blown on championship players hasn't been great, agree on the other use that he's tried to copy Burnley but the league has got tougher