Jan Van Winckel

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Wilder would walk immediately if anyone had final say on who we can / cannot buy. So too any idea of bringing in Director of Football. Wouldn't work with Wilder. He is the boss of football at BDTBL. Full-stop.
 



Van Winchel has top coaching qualifications, however that proves nothing except that he isn't a novice. Served as Bielsa's assistant in French club football so he is respected. I understood that The Prince wanted him to have more input in to the football side at The Lane two may be three seasons ago and McCabe didn't knock it back but Wilder quite rightly did. Moving on we are bottom of the Premier and odds on for relegation, if Van Winchel is again offered to Wilder and he kicks back what does the Prince do then? We all know how stubborn our Chris can be sometimes.
 
If VW had anything to do with bringing in Holzhauser to Beerschot then he clearly has an eye for what’s needed. Picked up on a free he plays LM/LCM and has been involved in just about every goal Beerschot have scored this season.
I’m not saying Holzhauser would be the answer for us. But I am highlighting that there are hidden gems out there. To have someone like VW to identify these players could only be a good thing.
I’ve thought for a long time now that the English market is poor value for money. You have to pay 20mil+ just for potential. I’m sure you could buy 2 players with better quality from the continent with that money.
 
Metalblade is right. Going down the Doyen/Coco Carvalhal route would be a disaster. Wilder has to have the final say on players. The problem is that although he has a thorough knowledge of the English lower leagues, he doesn't appear to know the foreign leagues well. He needs to be able to say to an intermediary what type of player he wants, and then the intermediary - via an extensive scouting network - finds that player for him.
 
CoatesyBlade said:
If VW had anything to do with bringing in Holzhauser to Beerschot then he clearly has an eye for what’s needed. Picked up on a free he plays LM/LCM and has been involved in just about every goal Beerschot have scored this season.
I’m not saying Holzhauser would be the answer for us. But I am highlighting that there are hidden gems out there. To have someone like VW to identify these players could only be a good thing.
I’ve thought for a long time now that the English market is poor value for money. You have to pay 20mil+ just for potential. I’m sure you could buy 2 players with better quality from the continent with that money.
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 
TomJonesBlade said:
What's Van Winkel's record on player transfers? Has he signed some belters on the cheap? Made vast profits for his past clubs?

And isn't his name 'Jan'?
Click to expand...

This is part of the problem. We look at players with one eye on potential profits. Prime example being Berge. We didn’t need him, he doesn’t fit into our system and our performances have nose dived since he arrived.

We need to look at players that address shortfalls in our team and that fit into how we want to play. So what if they are over 27 and we might not make money on them? If they keep us up, that’s where the money comes from.
 
There is no doubt that Chris and our current recruitment team don't have anything like the knowledge of the foreign transfer market that the vast majority of our competitors do. In that respect there is much room for improvement in that area. Whether Van Winkel is the man to help is immaterial really, that fact is we should and must have a better understanding of the foreign market. Wilder is a control freak and likes to have his DNA on everthing to do with the club - he's admitted that himself. This is one area though that he might have to loosen the rope on. For his own personal development alone, there is no way a bigger prem club than us would touch him until he's proven that he can recruit and work with top foreign players.
 
Snake said:
There is no doubt that Chris and our current recruitment team don't have anything like the knowledge of the foreign transfer market that the vast majority of our competitors do. In that respect there is much room for improvement in that area. Whether Van Winkel is the man to help is immaterial really, that fact is we should and must have a better understanding of the foreign market. Wilder is a control freak and likes to have his DNA on everthing to do with the club - he's admitted that himself. This is one area though that he might have to loosen the rope on. For his own personal development alone, there is no way a bigger prem club than us would touch him until he's proven that he can recruit and work with top foreign players.
Click to expand...
I disagree, we (as well as all PL teams) will have a decent scouting network. We just choose not to sign people from overseas as our manager seems to prefer to sign British players with the odd exception.
 
metalblade said:
So you're saying at 18 Premier League clubs some bloke sat in an office all day picks a player on football manager decides to buy him then tells the manager to do summat with him. I'm sure Klopp, Mourinho etc would stand for that.
Click to expand...
I don't think you know how modern day football works then in that case, because that is quite literally not far from it.
Some of the more high ranking managers (Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola, Ancelotti) might make the final decision on who is brought in, but they won't be able to force it through if the transfer team think it's a bad idea.
They'll also be given a shortlist of players by the DOF and told to pick them in order of preference
United and Burnley are the only clubs where the manager has total full reign, and even that's been put in jeopardy with Burnley this summer
 
Bellypork said:
Metalblade is right. Going down the Doyen/Coco Carvalhal route would be a disaster. Wilder has to have the final say on players. The problem is that although he has a thorough knowledge of the English lower leagues, he doesn't appear to know the foreign leagues well. He needs to be able to say to an intermediary what type of player he wants, and then the intermediary - via an extensive scouting network - finds that player for him.
Click to expand...
That's usually how it is anyway, I'm not suggesting JVW takes full control of all ingoings and outgoings at the club and Wilder is just told to concentrate on the team, but the amount of money we've pissed up the wall can't be ignored
 



I dont think anybody is suggesting that JVW takes over as a sort of DOF signing players and expecting CW to manage them. The foreign market is something we need to look at if we are seriously thinking about PL football be that this season or in the future. We dont seem to have any connection abroad apart from JVW
There is nothing wrong with JVW sourcing players that CW could work with or integrate into our system / squad. It would be down to CW to have the final say
 
Some people on here seem to have missed the last 10-15 years of how the area of football infrastructure directing and staffing has developed at the top echelons of the EPL. I suppose its not surprising given how we far we have risen up in the Wilder era.
It's one area where Wilder has accelerated the club massively beyond its infrastructure (see also training ground facilities/scouting network etc).
You can't hope to survive in the Premier by just ringing Steve Bruce or Jake Wright Snr to check if a player 'is a decent lad'. Due diligence is now much much more. Identifying transfers needs a team of people to do it including character checks/scouting/analysis etc.
I'm not an expert but you just need to watch the Amazon documentaries on Man City and Spurs to see how its done and how much is invested in this area. For example Arsenal made 55 people redundant on their football admin side as a result of Covid, whilst unfortunate for those involved this probably didn't make a massive difference to the headcount or how they go about doing things.
Even Leeds have been investing heavily in this area to make sure their infrastructure can support the talent of the manager.
The Directors of Football are usually incredibly talented ex players who have European experience and can take a wider view on things (our Deano would be a great appointment in this area I reckon, although obviously Van Winckel is a trusted advisor to the Prince and is doing some of this role at the moment maybe. We probably need to strengthen things here)
I get that some older folk on here want Wilder to have the final say and it just be down to CWAK and their coaches and that is probably correct on first team players but he definitely won't be able to do all the things needed to sustain us in the prem - its too much and far beyond any one man. He can be the figurehead for sure and the charismatic indiviudal who ties it all together, unites them and knits it into on the field success but its not all down to him. I think Wilder knows this and is doing all this stuff/work/progress towards this behind the scenes. I get that he is drivving things forward with the prince on this.
I would say that it seems SUFC are super super lean generally in the area of transfers but am not privvy to the inner workings. I think we do well in player welfare (injuries; sports science etc), junior football and social media but are absolutely miles off on womens football, transfers, football infrastructure, scouting and international work.
Given the job adverts, recent appointments for the women and age group sides, international club tie ups, and the planning applications on training ground it is being addressed but we are a fair way behind in some of these areas.
 
Last edited:
Pedro Verde said:
I dont think anybody is suggesting that JVW takes over as a sort of DOF signing players and expecting CW to manage them. The foreign market is something we need to look at if we are seriously thinking about PL football be that this season or in the future. We dont seem to have any connection abroad apart from JVW
There is nothing wrong with JVW sourcing players that CW could work with or integrate into our system / squad. It would be down to CW to have the final say
Click to expand...

Nail on the head. I think if anyone disagrees with the idea of widening our scouting pool, with the help of JVW, that's when you might be off your rocker as Chabuddy G says. We've reached the point where our predominant focus on the UK market has massive limitations for us.
 
Chabuddy G said:
Would anyone have any issues with him taking a more leading role with regards to recruitment, given how Chris has spent the fortune he's been given on average to middling players (and I'm being kind)?

If you would have any issues with it, for the record, I think you're off you're rocker
And Chris can have no arguments if Princey turns round to him and says 'you can keep your job, but Jan/Jules/Rip is spending the money' if you ask me
Click to expand...
Not at all, god knows what Paul Mitchell is doing, absolutely stealing a living
 
We are trying to replicate what Burnley did but

1) The league is seemingly getting more difficult than when Burnley established themselves
2) Goals are going up so low scoring teams are finding it harder
3) Burnley keep it very simple. 442, know your role. We are apparently so complicated that we can't even tweak things slightly
4) Burnley sign, big, strong, athletic players. That's the opposite of what we have
5) Burnley are the only team as bad at scoring as United

Sean Dyche has the same level of control Wilder has but he's just so much more experienced at this level. He's been through relegations and relegation battles.

To reiterate the point, it's a very tough league. I think anything that would allow Wilder to focus fully on what's happening on the pitch would be a good thing. And I think he's demonstrated a startlingly unimaginative view of potential transfers - If we don't have more people involved in the day to day running of the club it's going to be very difficult to arrest this slide. Most of the parachute payment money is already allocated to the mortgage and transfers already made. If we do go down and want to come back up we'll need to be a whole lot smarter than we have been since promotion
 
knowsnowt said:
So basically you want someone you know nowt about to come in and take over player recruitment.
Im not a fan of it if I'm honest.
Click to expand...


Use of the word "obviously" negates any questions you may have.
 
If he’s not already recommending players...What’s his role?
I thought he was supposed to be key to exploiting the foreign market for us. I sure we could have found more proven and better valued players than McBurnie and Brewster.
 
SteveBlade said:
Wilder absolutely needs someone advising him. I'm not really for someone other than Wilder having control of recruitment, but he clearly needs help.
Click to expand...
I think if JVW oversaw the European recruitment, as in recommendations to Chris and the team for all of them to discuss, then i'm in on the idea. I think Wilder would have to have the final say though. Maybe that's what happens now? I dunno..........
 
Grappler said:
Just for anyone who doesn't know who Van Winckel is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Van_Winckel

And the SUFC Board of Directors: -

View attachment 99326
Click to expand...
VW is a director so will have a say on policy especially with his back ground in the game.Sometime ago a bit of friction surfaced as Wilder felt his position was being eroded . Some agreement was reached and it's been quite ever since.
Wilder would be foolish not to take on board any assistance VW could offer especially in the foreign market.Berge and this young lad who is on lone in Belgium are testimony to this.
 
JackSUFC said:
How much influence does he have on your recruitment PurpleRain?

If he is quite a significant figure at Beerschot then it seems as if he is doing a good job.
Click to expand...
Yes he is the head of our technical commission together with the head coach and some advisors. Together they decide who is brought in but Van Winckel has a key role in that commission. Holzhauser, Suzuki, Coulibaly have been brilliant transfers. Holzhauser costed nothing since he was out of contract when we signed him. Suzuki was the top scorer of the Japanese league and he costed 1.5 million and Coulibaly we normally would have bought for 1.2 million but then a bidding war started with Club Bugge and Galatasaray and then you guys stepped in with an offer of 2.3 million and with the loan construction. At first I was sceptical but now I have to admit fantastic things are happening and I would trust Van Winckel to bring you some foreign players next transfer window.
 



CarlMcBlade said:
If he’s not already recommending players...What’s his role?
I thought he was supposed to be key to exploiting the foreign market for us. I sure we could have found more proven and better valued players than McBurnie and Brewster.
Click to expand...
Maybe Chris’s antagonism towards him, is ever so slightly stifling our foreign recruitment policy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GymClassHero
Sod it, just bring him back
Replies
3
Views
645
silver blade
silver blade
Bartleby
Charlton v Blades Pre-match press conference
Replies
1
Views
403
mattbianco1
mattbianco1
Bartleby
Blades v Birmingham City Pre-match press conference summary
Replies
0
Views
440
Bartleby
Bartleby
B
I hope Sheffield United don't come to regret this
3 4 5
Replies
134
Views
12K
Dkc
Dkc
1973Blade
Managers who have walked out on us for another club
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
Gin&Juice
Gin&Juice

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom