Jagielka Conspiracy

[Pinchy]

Anyone who really believes he did it on purpose needs a straitjacket and a psychiatric evaluation.

He did do it on purpose. He conspicuously, deliberately and knowingly handled the ball. That’s why the referee gave a penalty and nobody at all protested.

What is in issue is WHY he handled the ball on purpose. He didn’t bother to explain it at the time and never has since. Do you not think he ought to have? It was the proximate cause of our relegation and mattered a great deal to some of us. You know, those of us who care more about our club than blind loyalty towards a particular player. See also Sharp, Brooks et al...

I don’t think it was done to secure a move but I’m sure he didn’t give a fuck about it. He was okay. He knew he was Everton bound. We had to pick up the pieces.

 

[Pinchy]

If you genuinely believe Jagielka deliberately hand balled in order to make sure we lost, got relegated and he got a move to Everton then I think you may have spent too much of your life dealing with recidivists.

I don’t. I have never said that. My view has been entirely consistent. Why hasn’t he told us what happened? It merited an explanation do you not think?

 

[BushBlade]

I don’t. I have never said that. My view has been entirely consistent. Why hasn’t he told us what happened? It merited an explanation do you not think?

No. Just as I don’t think Webber should offer an explanation why he hit the post. I don’t think any footballer is obliged to explain mistakes, it’s a terrible precedent to set. The media already subjects every aspect of football to excessive scrutiny.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It wasn't a blatant hand ball in any way whatsoever.

If you can find the footage, you will see that as the Wigan defender jumped to compete for the ball, his shoulder hit Jags' arm and pushed it upwards, which led to his hand hitting the ball.

I sometimes think many of our supporters are deaf and blind, one thing's for sure, they're certainly not dumb !

 

[RavBlade]

Hasn’t he retired yet!

No, its oap exploitation. He's hidden in the back with the tater rumbler.

 

[Pinchy]

No. Just as I don’t think Webber should offer an explanation why he hit the post. I don’t think any footballer is obliged to explain mistakes, it’s a terrible precedent to set. The media already subjects every aspect of football to excessive scrutiny.

Well, Webber’s shot wasn’t quite on target. That was self-evident. A quite deliberate (not pre-meditated, a big difference) handling in the penalty area is something else. It was a bizarre thing to do. If he panicked and had a moment of madness, tell us. It’s as simple as that. The bollocks about being pushed is nonsense. The lack of protest from anyone, including that known shrinking violet Ol’ Big Nose, gives the lie to that one.

 

[BushBlade]

Well, Webber’s shot wasn’t quite on target. That was self-evident. A quite deliberate (not pre-meditated, a big difference) handling in the penalty area is something else. It was a bizarre thing to do. If he panicked and had a moment of madness, tell us. It’s as simple as that. The bollocks about being pushed is nonsense. The lack of protest from anyone, including that known shrinking violet Ol’ Big Nose, gives the lie to that one.

I’ve watched him play a lot for Everton and he does have the occasional Brian Gayle moment. I’m not convinced he’d be able to explain it other than ‘I shit it’. Did you see the challenge Choudry made in the u-21s for the red card? That was just as inexplicable. I’d guess that most weekends a footballer does something that defies logic and sense.

I suspect at some point this season he’ll be asked about it.

 

[FYT]

Utter nonsense. Contrary to the laws of both physics and bio-mechanics. Bladey Claptrap.

What is utter nonsense?

Have you seen it? Clearly not!

I know you've got form for being outspoken Pinchy but you're talking tripe mate - AGAIN!

 

[FYT]

Unfortunately, the coverage doesn't show it closely enough Sean.

 

[FYT]

He did do it on purpose. He conspicuously, deliberately and knowingly handled the ball. That’s why the referee gave a penalty and nobody at all protested.

What is in issue is WHY he handled the ball on purpose. He didn’t bother to explain it at the time and never has since. Do you not think he ought to have? It was the proximate cause of our relegation and mattered a great deal to some of us. You know, those of us who care more about our club than blind loyalty towards a particular player. See also Sharp, Brooks et al...

I don’t think it was done to secure a move but I’m sure he didn’t give a fuck about it. He was okay. He knew he was Everton bound. We had to pick up the pieces.

Utter nonsense !

 

[Hamburg Blade]

He did do it on purpose. He conspicuously, deliberately and knowingly handled the ball. That’s why the referee gave a penalty and nobody at all protested.

What is in issue is WHY he handled the ball on purpose. He didn’t bother to explain it at the time and never has since. Do you not think he ought to have? It was the proximate cause of our relegation and mattered a great deal to some of us. You know, those of us who care more about our club than blind loyalty towards a particular player. See also Sharp, Brooks et al...

I don’t think it was done to secure a move but I’m sure he didn’t give a fuck about it. He was okay. He knew he was Everton bound. We had to pick up the pieces.

Do you get a feeling of déjà vu? I'm sure this has been mentioned before.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I suppose you could generate an opinion that Warnock deliberately dropped him back there to do exactly that - in cohoots!!

Bizarre team selection.
Bizarre incident.

On a day like that we were all doing bizarre things! One of the toughest days of our football lives. I remember every detail and it was a nightmare.

Talk like this will make Jags wish he hadn't come back.

 

[Pinchy]

Utter nonsense !

Really? Tell me which bits? Much of it is factual. Are you saying the ref was wrong to give a penalty?

 

[Pinchy]

I suppose you could generate an opinion that Warnock deliberately dropped him back there to do exactly that - in cohoots!!

Bizarre team selection.
Bizarre incident.

On a day like that we were all doing bizarre things! One of the toughest days of our football lives. I remember every detail and it was a nightmare.

Talk like this will make Jags wish he hadn't come back.

Perhaps he should have talked a little more before taking a fast car to Everton? Then there would be no ‘talk like this’.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Unfortunately, the coverage doesn't show it closely enough Sean.

I know. Seems like contact as you said but, and it's hard to tell, he appears to stick out his hand, upwards, as the ball approaches.

Meh. Water under the bridge.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Perhaps he should have talked a little more before taking a fast car to Everton? Then there would be no ‘talk like this’.

I would not deny the contract clause was a kick in the teeth at a bad time. That much is fact, for me anyway.

Mind you I would neverhave had Currie back, certainly not laud him. Director now, crazy thing that happens in a crazy world.

Deane came back to play that's different. That's what Jags is doing now. And we need a pillar of strength like him, on and off the field.

 

[GymClassHero]

If you watch the incident jags was pushed in the back, as a result his arm was jolted. Of course it wasn’t on fucking purpose grow up ffs. Don’t you think he could have done it far more discreetly if he intended it?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Unfortunately, the coverage doesn't show it closely enough Sean.

I think it’s clear enough to see that there was a crush of bodies going for the ball, and that he may well have jumped without clear sight of it. It’s not as though he handled it while under no pressure and while free of jostling. I still thought at the time that he had his shirt tugged by McCulloch, and that the raising of hands was to either try and combat that or appeal for a decision.

 

[OnmiEdson]

I appreciate everyone’s point of view and that everyone has a right to see things as they do,but as you pick up on the minutiae of others who post I feel justified to ask ......
What is your evidence for using ‘Knowingly’ and ‘deliberate’

 

[Pinchy]

I would not deny the contract clause was a kick in the teeth at a bad time. That much is fact, for me anyway.

Mind you I would neverhave had Currie back, certainly not laud him. Director now, crazy thing that happens in a crazy world.

Deane came back to play that's different. That's what Jags is doing now. And we need a pillar of strength like him, on and off the field.

How often do you expect to see him on the field Woody?

Were you in favour of that pillar of strength Morgan, on the coaching staff?

 

[Pinchy]

I appreciate everyone’s point of view and that everyone has a right to see things as they do,but as you pick up on the minutiae of others who post I feel justified to ask ......
What is your evidence for using ‘Knowingly’ and ‘deliberate’

Firstly a common sense inference from what he did. Secondly, it wouldn’t have been a penalty otherwise. Nobody protested, remember.

As I have said elsewhere ‘deliberate’ is not to be conflated with ‘pre-meditated’. No doubt on the spur of the moment, he intentionally handled the ball. He meant to do it. That’s what “deliberate and knowingly” imports, nothing more sinister than that.

 

[Pinchy]

If you watch the incident jags was pushed in the back, as a result his arm was jolted. Of course it wasn’t on fucking purpose grow up ffs. Don’t you think he could have done it far more discreetly if he intended it?

You’re not a student of bio-mechanics are you? Or of the laws of football? Or of the English Language?

In one short paragraph you’ve got all three badly wrong.

 

[Bladesman]

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Firstly a common sense inference from what he did. Secondly, it wouldn’t have been a penalty otherwise. Nobody protested, remember.

As I have said elsewhere ‘deliberate’ is not to be conflated with ‘pre-meditated’. No doubt on the spur of the moment, he intentionally handled the ball. He meant to do it. That’s what “deliberate and knowingly” imports, nothing more sinister than that.

We’ve been through this time and again but it really isn’t a stretch to suggest he did not mean to do it, meant to do something else, made a mistake that meant he ended up handling the ball inadvertently (but sufficient contact for the ref to give handball and a penalty). Unintentional. Unfortunate. A mistake.

 

[GymClassHero]

You’re not a student of bio-mechanics are you? Or of the laws of football? Or of the English Language?

In one short paragraph you’ve got all three badly wrong.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

[Woodwardfan]

How often do you expect to see him on the field Woody?

Were you in favour of that pillar of strength Morgan, on the coaching staff?

Not at all. Listen to them both talk about the game.

 

[The Crab]

To my absolute disbelief last night at Burton, a 'fan' (using the term very lightly) in front of me said "I won't clap Jagielka. He got us relegated last time", which was later followed by "He's too old, and his wages will be too high".
She spent her time then explaining to her teenage kids how he "deliberately jumped and handball it to get his move to Everton". Her kids then kept saying how Jags would be jumping at corners to handball it. How had she brainwashed her kids in the space of 20 minutes?
Someone please tell me how, and why, these fans are allowed to attend games?

I'm impressed to be fair. Lasses that dim are usually at home watching Love Island

 

[CrookesBlade]

You do see these bizarre blatant handballs that defy explanation when a defender is under pressure. Not in the same category as Suarez in the 2010 World Cup, more a rush of blood to the head.

Seem to remember away at Gillingham a few years ago their right back inexplicably punched the ball away in the area when it was drifting out for a corner. Likewise McEverly did it against Spurs in the league cup semi.

For me this is what the handball against Wigan was. Definitely deliberate but risible to suggest he’d planned to do it in advance to engineer a move away that would have probably happened anyway.

 

[8lade]

Only Jags knows. Maybe he did it for a reason, maybe it's that inexplicable thing.
In my mind, I thought Jags realised he wasn't best placed so jumped with his arms high to deny sight of the ball to the players behind him, push in the back, handball. I'm sure I've expounded this theory before and it never caught on so I'm putting it in the 'crazy bin', which oddly enough seems to resemble my mind.

 

[Santos' Two Footer]

To my absolute disbelief last night at Burton, a 'fan' (using the term very lightly) in front of me said "I won't clap Jagielka. He got us relegated last time", which was later followed by "He's too old, and his wages will be too high".
She spent her time then explaining to her teenage kids how he "deliberately jumped and handball it to get his move to Everton". Her kids then kept saying how Jags would be jumping at corners to handball it. How had she brainwashed her kids in the space of 20 minutes?
Someone please tell me how, and why, these fans are allowed to attend games?

The short answer is that they shouldn't be allowed.. The bloke was a model professional throughout his whole time with us and would have no doubt got a move even if we had stayed up as he was a class above the rest.