It will all slot into place.

[Woodwardfan]

Add Wallace and Scougall to yesterday's team, with Baxter as the "false No.9".

Abandon the Basham experiment. Play Higdon on the bench for Plan B if needed in the last 20 minutes of games.

Play Flynn on the right. Murphy on the left. Doyle holding midfield.

Abandon the McGahey experiment, play Basham (or Butler or Kennedy instead.)

Simple.

In addition McNulty, Reed, Campbell-Ryce will all grow into the season. Maybe re-sign Evans.

 

[Esablade]

Thought Basham did well today...and thought McGahey was ok too...Collins looking the more uncomfortable of the two at times ...but yes, it will slot into place.

 

[Pinchy]

Add Wallace and Scougall to yesterday's team, with Baxter as the "false No.9".

Abandon the Basham experiment. Play Higdon on the bench for Plan B if needed in the last 20 minutes of games.

Play Flynn on the right. Murphy on the left. Doyle holding midfield.

Abandon the McGahey experiment, play Basham (or Butler or Kennedy instead.)

Simple.

In addition McNulty, Reed, Campbell-Ryce will all grow into the season. Maybe re-sign Evans.

McGahey was excellent yesterday! He's a top player in the making and you want to abandon him? You propose instead a Kennedy experiment? He's not going to make it at The Lane, mate.

A "holding" midfielder is not mandatory. Two who can get up and down, play a bit, pass the ball accurately and press the ball when not in possession are much the better bet. Midfielder - the clue is in the appellation.

I'm afraid some of us have lost contact with the real game. It's played on grass. There are no superimposed lines or circles when you have the ball at your feet.

 

[Woodwardfan]

It's all about opinions, of course it is.

Basham has averaged 4.83 on our fan ratings in the 4 league games. To me he does neither one thing or the other. He does not keep possession well and doesn't really hold his position well. He is an athlete though.

As for McGahey, I'm sorry he looks totally out of his depth to me. On at least 4 occasions yesterday he had the ball in his sights and suddenly kopped out, as if he is full of self-doubt. Added to that, on one occasion he did just that and then should have been sent off when he pulled back the who forward skipped past him. Good job it was "see nothing" Mr. Dursoe. I don't expect him to last another 3 games before he is "rested". His average rating is 5.49 and I think that is making big allowance for his age, fair enough. If Kennedy is not a better central defender I'll eat my hat.

As for not playing Doyle, just look at the results without him. You always miss his type of player when he isn't there.

Personally I think yesterday is just the day to look for alternatives because on another day we would have lost, even against a poor Crawley side. We were atrocious.

 

[Pinchy]

It's all about opinions, of course it is.

Basham has averaged 4.83 on our fan ratings in the 4 league games. To me he does neither one thing or the other. He does not keep possession well and doesn't really hold his position well. He is an athlete though.

As for McGahey, I'm sorry he looks totally out of his depth to me. On at least 4 occasions yesterday he had the ball in his sights and suddenly kopped out, as if he is full of self-doubt. Added to that, on one occasion he did just that and then should have been sent off when he pulled back the who forward skipped past him. Good job it was "see nothing" Mr. Dursoe. I don't expect him to last another 3 games before he is "rested". His average rating is 5.49 and I think that is making big allowance for his age, fair enough. If Kennedy is not a better central defender I'll eat my hat.

As for not playing Doyle, just look at the results without him. You always miss his type of player when he isn't there.

Personally I think yesterday is just the day to look for alternatives because on another day we would have lost, even against a poor Crawley side. We were atrocious.

Topper or Bowler with your chips, Sir?

I usually agree with your views Woody, but this one is so far off the fairway as to be unplayable. Let's see who has the more successful career in the game. Do you honestly think Kennedy is going to play his at a high level? If so, he's taking an awful long time to get going. McGahey was playing in the Championship at 18. He has all the attributes except those that only experience can bring. The lad is going to be an outstanding centre-back - better than his predecessor actually, because he has quite a bit of pace.

As to every team needing "a Doyle" or "a Monty": It's a cheap cliché and gives so-called midfielders license to do half a job. When Wallace is fit he'll be in there with Basham not Doyle, because Basham (and he is yet to impress me) at least gets forward from time to time. Personally I Scoogs!

 

[blader]

'It will all slot into place'

Well, will it? As far as I can see, whilst we have 6 points, we have yet to perform anything like a side that is looking good for promotion. Had we played fantastic in one of the first four games, I'd agree that it was evident the team had potential to just click and run away with it.

So far we have been bettered by Bristol City, woeful at Coventry, lucky at Peterborough, and the 'least worst' team against Crawley. There have been few moments in 360 minutes of football to suggest this side has any more than it is currently giving.

I know a lot have said 'ye but charlton won the league with a series of 1-0 wins'. However, the sign of a good team is grinding out a 1-0 win when you are having an off day. Unfortunately, there is little evidence that these first 4 performances are anything other than the norm for this season.

 

[Lane Ender]

Forget Kennedy he'll go the same way as Ironside,Mcfazdene etc not good enough.

As for McGahey Clough has unearthed a real gem in that lad I personally would like to see Butler at the side of him.
Midfield I've got to agree with Pinchy Wallace,Scoogs , Basham nice balance.

 

[FTPE]

Topper or Bowler with your chips, Sir?

I usually agree with your views Woody, but this one is so far off the fairway as to be unplayable. Let's see who has the more successful career in the game. Do you honestly think Kennedy is going to play his at a high level? If so, he's taking an awful long time to get going. McGahey was playing in the Championship at 18. He has all the attributes except those that only experience can bring. The lad is going to be an outstanding centre-back - better than his predecessor actually, because he has quite a bit of pace.

As to every team needing "a Doyle" or "a Monty": It's a cheap cliché and gives so-called midfielders license to do half a job. When Wallace is fit he'll be in there with Basham not Doyle, because Basham (and he is yet to impress me) at least gets forward from time to time. Personally I Scoogs!

I can't agree with this post any more!
I haven't seen much of basham but I can see what cloughy is hoping he turns into, I like the look of mcghey but there's still a loooooot of work to be done with him.....
But my main point is Doyle
"Uggggh you don't understand the work he puts in"
"Every team needs one"
"He's not flashy but breaks up their play"
"He organises and leads the team"
NO HE DOESNT!! all those quotes are what Keane and Veira did-not that pudding.
going unnoticed in a game doesn't make me an idiot and him an unappreciated midfield general!!!

 

[Lane Ender]

'It will all slot into place'

Well, will it? As far as I can see, whilst we have 6 points, we have yet to perform anything like a side that is looking good for promotion. Had we played fantastic in one of the first four games, I'd agree that it was evident the team had potential to just click and run away with it.

So far we have been bettered by Bristol City, woeful at Coventry, lucky at Peterborough, and the 'least worst' team against Crawley. There have been few moments in 360 minutes of football to suggest this side has any more than it is currently giving.

I know a lot have said 'ye but charlton won the league with a series of 1-0 wins'. However, the sign of a good team is grinding out a 1-0 win when you are having an off day. Unfortunately, there is little evidence that these first 4 performances are anything other than the norm for this season.

FFS we've only played 4 games!

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Abandon the Basham experiment.

Couldn't agree less - Basham is way ahead of some the other Blades players. The problem is NO ONE can see Bashams runs into the box as they have NEVER played with that type of player before. He does it all the time and doesn't get caught offside either. He is the type of midfielder most Blades fans haven't seen the like of before.

A midfield player that can get passed the forwards is worth his weight in gold.

FFS cut Basham a bit of slack.

He is at present 2nd on the team sheet after Davies and will be 3rd on the team sheet once Wallace is fit and playing.

I would get used to Basham and Wallace playing centre mid, injuries permitting.

UTB

 

[blade too long]

 

[Jehovah]

"It will slot into place"

My input into this thread is this. That's what she said.

 

[Pinchy]

'It will all slot into place'

Well, will it? As far as I can see, whilst we have 6 points, we have yet to perform anything like a side that is looking good for promotion. Had we played fantastic in one of the first four games, I'd agree that it was evident the team had potential to just click and run away with it.

So far we have been bettered by Bristol City, woeful at Coventry, lucky at Peterborough, and the 'least worst' team against Crawley. There have been few moments in 360 minutes of football to suggest this side has any more than it is currently giving.

I know a lot have said 'ye but charlton won the league with a series of 1-0 wins'. However, the sign of a good team is grinding out a 1-0 win when you are having an off day. Unfortunately, there is little evidence that these first 4 performances are anything other than the norm for this season.

It's far far too early to conclude what is the norm for the season.

This 'we were lucky...' business is becoming a familiar refrain on here. It has no logical basis and is rather tedious. If you wanted, you could find a "we were unlucky' in most games. Both propositions are pretty ludicrous and frankly irrelevant.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Topper or Bowler with your chips, Sir?

I usually agree with your views Woody, but this one is so far off the fairway as to be unplayable. Let's see who has the more successful career in the game. Do you honestly think Kennedy is going to play his at a high level? If so, he's taking an awful long time to get going. McGahey was playing in the Championship at 18. He has all the attributes except those that only experience can bring. The lad is going to be an outstanding centre-back - better than his predecessor actually, because he has quite a bit of pace.

As to every team needing "a Doyle" or "a Monty": It's a cheap cliché and gives so-called midfielders license to do half a job. When Wallace is fit he'll be in there with Basham not Doyle, because Basham (and he is yet to impress me) at least gets forward from time to time. Personally I Scoogs!

 

[Woodwardfan]

I am so encouraged that there is so much positivity about Basham and McGahey. Next game I will watch them with fresh eyes. I must say I was very despondent yesterday.

 

[mattbianco1]

Add Wallace and Scougall to yesterday's team, with Baxter as the "false No.9".

Abandon the Basham experiment. Play Higdon on the bench for Plan B if needed in the last 20 minutes of games.

Play Flynn on the right. Murphy on the left. Doyle holding midfield.

Abandon the McGahey experiment, play Basham (or Butler or Kennedy instead.)

Simple.

In addition McNulty, Reed, Campbell-Ryce will all grow into the season. Maybe re-sign Evans.

Sounds good but where would you play Davies. He should be first name on the team sheet followed by Alcock

 

[blader]

It's far far too early to conclude what is the norm for the season.

This 'we were lucky...' business is becoming a familiar refrain on here. It has no logical basis and is rather tedious. If you wanted, you could find a "we were unlucky' in most games. Both propositions are pretty ludicrous and frankly irrelevant.

Well is it too early? I don't know about you, but the table already resembles something I predicted it would look like next may. It's not about bein lucky, there's a manner in which good sides win games, and we have not controlled and dominated any of our first 4 matches. Surely that must be a worry for you? As I say, if there had been one match we had previously dominated I would be more patient as I had seen the capabilities of the side. Sadly, we haven't yet. So what makes you so sure this side has more to offer? I haven't seen anything to change my mind yet.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Couldn't agree less - Basham is way ahead of some the other Blades players. The problem is NO ONE can see Bashams runs into the box as they have NEVER played with that type of player before. He does it all the time and doesn't get caught offside either. He is the type of midfielder most Blades fans haven't seen the like of before.

A midfield player that can get passed the forwards is worth his weight in gold.

FFS cut Basham a bit of slack.

He is at present 2nd on the team sheet after Davies and will be 3rd on the team sheet once Wallace is fit and playing.

I would get used to Basham and Wallace playing centre mid, injuries permitting.

UTB

I would love to see some merit in what you say but the lad had played just 117 league games ( why so few I don't know) since 2006 and has scored 5 goals.

He is described on most sites as a "defender/ midfielder". I see a defender trying to make his way in midfield where he prefers to play. However many games his managers have picked him in midfield over the years I would not know, but even if he has played in defence all the time, a goal haul of five is modest surely.

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking in the air. Up to now I see an uncreative midfield which does not protect the defence enough. Frankly without Doyle they were a shambles; just think back to how Bristol waltsed through us time and again; remember their second goal when neither a midfielder or a defender spotted Elliott's run.

However, I will look again next match. I too hope and pray we have signed some good players last summer. However I fear it is up to last season's cup heroes to produce the goods, hence my O.P. Much depends on Wallace.

 

[judge]

"It will slot into place"

My input into this thread is this. That's what she said.

With a jar of vaseline and ten pints everything slots into every place

 

[super_pig]

I
But my main point is Doyle
"Uggggh you don't understand the work he puts in"
"Every team needs one"
"He's not flashy but breaks up their play"
"He organises and leads the team"
NO HE DOESNT!!

couldn't agree more.. he's the new Monty. .although to his credit he did displace Monty.. United fans love to be anti the unpopular player crowd. it's a game. anyone would thing he is Xavi the way some people go on

 

[The Bohemian]

It's all about opinions, of course it is.

Basham has averaged 4.83 on our fan ratings in the 4 league games. To me he does neither one thing or the other. He does not keep possession well and doesn't really hold his position well. He is an athlete though.

As for McGahey, I'm sorry he looks totally out of his depth to me. On at least 4 occasions yesterday he had the ball in his sights and suddenly kopped out, as if he is full of self-doubt. Added to that, on one occasion he did just that and then should have been sent off when he pulled back the who forward skipped past him. Good job it was "see nothing" Mr. Dursoe. I don't expect him to last another 3 games before he is "rested". His average rating is 5.49 and I think that is making big allowance for his age, fair enough. If Kennedy is not a better central defender I'll eat my hat.

As for not playing Doyle, just look at the results without him. You always miss his type of player when he isn't there.

Personally I think yesterday is just the day to look for alternatives because on another day we would have lost, even against a poor Crawley side. We were atrocious.

I'm not sure how reliable average supporter ratings are for assessing a player's performance or capability.

There is a book called 'The Wisdom of Crowds' which identifies where collective wisdom works and where it doesn't. Upshot is: if the question is relatively straightforward, e.g. assess the weight of an Ox (or for the sake of this debate let's say Michael Higdon) the average response from the 'crowd' is generally very accurate (I'd go 13st10Ib). Where there is complexity involved, e.g. in assessing the performance of a central midfield player, crowd judgement is much less reliable. Individuals with expert knowledge are more likely to get it right in these situations (for clarity's sake I am not suggesting I am more expert than you).

Pretty much all professional clubs invest heavily in Prozone software to monitor player performance nowadays - more evidence that this is no straightforward issue. I'd be very surprised if this didn't influence Cloughie's decision to sign him.

Having been away on holiday I saw Basham for the first time yesterday and was very impressed with his work-rate, courage and decision-making (winning it and generally keeping it simple); he also made a few good offensive passes in the first half. As others have pointed out, his ability to make regular runs into the opposition penalty area and recover quickly to a defensive position is a key asset. Not always noticeable but important nonetheless.

He isn't the strongest technically and doesn't look a natural finisher but, let's be honest, if he had these additional qualities he wouldn't be playing in Div 3 would he?

 

[Rodley]

I'm not sure how reliable average supporter ratings are for assessing a player's performance or capability.

There is a book called 'The Wisdom of Crowds' which identifies where collective wisdom works and where it doesn't. Upshot is: if the question is relatively straightforward, e.g. assess the weight of an Ox (or for the sake of this debate let's say Michael Higdon) the average response from the 'crowd' is generally very accurate (I'd go 13st10Ib). Where there is complexity involved, e.g. in assessing the performance of a central midfield player, crowd judgement is much less reliable. Individuals with expert knowledge are more likely to get it right in these situations (for clarity's sake I am not suggesting I am more expert than you).

Pretty much all professional clubs invest heavily in Prozone software to monitor player performance nowadays - more evidence that this is no straightforward issue. I'd be very surprised if this didn't influence Cloughie's decision to sign him.

Having been away on holiday I saw Basham for the first time yesterday and was very impressed with his work-rate, courage and decision-making (winning it and generally keeping it simple); he also made a few good offensive passes in the first half. As others have pointed out, his ability to make regular runs into the opposition penalty area and recover quickly to a defensive position is a key asset. Not always noticeable but important nonetheless.

He isn't the strongest technically and doesn't look a natural finisher but, let's be honest, if he had these additional qualities he wouldn't be playing in Div 3 would he?

Good post.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Good teams are all about partnerships all over the field. Clough tried the Reed/ Basham partnership in central midfield and it was weak defensively and not creative enough in the final third.

From what I see of Basham his qualities are best in the back two thirds of the field. He is optimistic in the final third but he does not seem to have the subtlety, vision or touch needed. As far as I know he has not done it throughout his career, certainly at Blackpool according to their fans who said he was erratic with possession.

He looks an athlete and works very hard for the first hour each game but fades badly.

I agree he's a "pointer" rather than a marker, as spotted by someone above.

Look, Clough is the man, but if we wish for promotion this season we just cannot try and fail with numerous experiments like Basham and McGahey. We need points on the board. A promotion season is not for developing raw kids and converting defenders into midfielders.

Clough is on a bad run. His decision to give Higdon the captaincy for his first match looks ludicrous now let's face it.

The Clough we see on the touchline this season is agitated and a shouter and a "head shaker", not an encouragerer. He looks worried to me and simply does not need to play players out of position or urgently give raw kids games. There is tension and concern on the touchline and it's not all the players' fault. It could all slot into place if the manager plays to his strengths.

 

[Darthblade]

It's all about opinions, of course it is.

Basham has averaged 4.83 on our fan ratings in the 4 league games. To me he does neither one thing or the other. He does not keep possession well and doesn't really hold his position well. He is an athlete though.

As for McGahey, I'm sorry he looks totally out of his depth to me. On at least 4 occasions yesterday he had the ball in his sights and suddenly kopped out, as if he is full of self-doubt. Added to that, on one occasion he did just that and then should have been sent off when he pulled back the who forward skipped past him. Good job it was "see nothing" Mr. Dursoe. I don't expect him to last another 3 games before he is "rested". His average rating is 5.49 and I think that is making big allowance for his age, fair enough. If Kennedy is not a better central defender I'll eat my hat.

As for not playing Doyle, just look at the results without him. You always miss his type of player when he isn't there.

Personally I think yesterday is just the day to look for alternatives because on another day we would have lost, even against a poor Crawley side. We were atrocious.

I would play Doyle in the holding role, sitting in the South stand next to McCabe and the Prince !! If you watched him yesterday against a poor side, he failed again to impose himself, won 2 tackles all match, sprayed passes everywhere except to a red and white shirt and was the cause of at least 2 dangerous moments ..... for us !!
No I'm sorry, Doyle is the same as last season ..... our weak link in the midfield.
UTB & FTP

 

[wizadry]

Good teams are all about partnerships all over the field. Clough tried the Reed/ Basham partnership in central midfield and it was weak defensively and not creative enough in the final third.

From what I see of Basham his qualities are best in the back two thirds of the field. He is optimistic in the final third but he does not seem to have the subtlety, vision or touch needed. As far as I know he has not done it throughout his career, certainly at Blackpool according to their fans who said he was erratic with possession.

He looks an athlete and works very hard for the first hour each game but fades badly.

I agree he's a "pointer" rather than a marker, as spotted by someone above.

Look, Clough is the man, but if we wish for promotion this season we just cannot try and fail with numerous experiments like Basham and McGahey. We need points on the board. A promotion season is not for developing raw kids and converting defenders into midfielders.

Clough is on a bad run. His decision to give Higdon the captaincy for his first match looks ludicrous now let's face it.

The Clough we see on the touchline this season is agitated and a shouter and a "head shaker", not an encouragerer. He looks worried to me and simply does not need to play players out of position or urgently give raw kids games. There is tension and concern on the touchline and it's not all the players' fault. It could all slot into place if the manager plays to his strengths.

Fail with a numerous of experiments you say

Lets be honest now,how many points would you have expected after the 4 games wev'e played.My guess was 7 points out of a possible 12,we have 6,so for me i'd say the supposable gambles you're on about are not gambles.I think they're new players getting used to playing with their new team mates,although my points total is expected to go up quite a bit next month as our fixtures are a little easier on paper,and the players will have played a lot more together.

I will finish on this.Mcgahey and Basham were both at a championship club,so i don't mean to sound simple,but how can playing somebody who's come from a level above be a gamble? Don't get me wrong, Mcgahey hardly played for Blackpool but he's still from the level above no matter which way you look at it.

 

[wizadry]

I know a lot have said 'ye but charlton won the league with a series of 1-0 wins'. However, the sign of a good team is grinding out a 1-0 win when you are having an off day. Unfortunately, there is little evidence that these first 4 performances are anything other than the norm for this season.

I'm sure wev'e just ground out a 1-0 winWe must be one of the shit sides then that never grind them sort of results out

 

[LSF]

I would play Doyle in the holding role, sitting in the South stand next to McCabe and the Prince !! If you watched him yesterday against a poor side, he failed again to impose himself, won 2 tackles all match, sprayed passes everywhere except to a red and white shirt and was the cause of at least 2 dangerous moments ..... for us !!
No I'm sorry, Doyle is the same as last season ..... our weak link in the midfield.
UTB & FTP

Now you've finished your umpteenth ability assassination of Doyle ( and I'll defend him as long as you attack him), care to assess fairly and without prejudice (LOL) if his contribution was better than that of Higdon?

 

[blader]

I'm sure wev'e just ground out a 1-0 winWe must be one of the shit sides then that never grind them sort of results out

Think you've missed the point. We won 1-0, yes, but i am saying that good teams grind out these wins when they are having an off day. The Crawley performance was no different to the previous 3 performances, which implies it wasn't an off day, rather just a.... day.

 

[Darthblade]

Now you've finished your umpteenth ability assassination of Doyle ( and I'll defend him as long as you attack him), care to assess fairly and without prejudice (LOL) if his contribution was better than that of Higdon?

Higdon was absolutely crap yesterday. Deadbats mark of 3/10 was (IMHO) generous as he really didn't do anything right. He was immobile, touch like a JCB and missed a sidefoot at 1-0. I would have subbed him after about 50 mins for McNulty !!! I desperately hope that it was a "one off" performance from Higdon or we are in the shit .......
But I stand by my criticism of Doyle. I paid particular attention to his performance, hoping that he had been given a "kick up the arse" by being dropped, however, even those of you who like Doyle must have seen how limited he was yesterday against a poor side.
UTB & FTP

 

[wizadry]

Think you've missed the point. We won 1-0, yes, but i am saying that good teams grind out these wins when they are having an off day. The Crawley performance was no different to the previous 3 performances, which implies it wasn't an off day, rather just a.... day.

I get you now,but i still think were only a few games in so its difficult to say whether it was just a 'day',or an 'off day' as you put it,only time will tell.