Is United World worth the money?

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Part of the journey is the end.

In Châteauroux, the endgame is very much upon us.

Yesterday it was confirmed that all 17 out of contract and loan players would be leaving plus 2 others not named had also found other clubs.

By the end of the week €880,000 needs to arrive into the account to flatten the season just gone. There then needs to be evidence that some $3m+ is there to ensure completion of the 2023/24 season; a cash injection would be the most compelling evidence to ensure National status, though there may be alternatives.

So, the game is afoot. Will Prince Abdullah keep Châteauroux afloat? Or does he feel betrayed by some of the local management enough to let them fall?

We will find out before the weekend!
 

Champagneblade said:
Part of the journey is the end.

In Châteauroux, the endgame is very much upon us.

Yesterday it was confirmed that all 17 out of contract and loan players would be leaving plus 2 others not named had also found other clubs.

By the end of the week €880,000 needs to arrive into the account to flatten the season just gone. There then needs to be evidence that some $3m+ is there to ensure completion of the 2023/24 season; a cash injection would be the most compelling evidence to ensure National status, though there may be alternatives.

So, the game is afoot. Will Prince Abdullah keep Châteauroux afloat? Or does he feel betrayed by some of the local management enough to let them fall?

We will find out before the weekend!
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i bEt He tekS mUnNeh aRt ov BlaYaRds
 
I understand that if The Prince ever takes money out of SUFC, that would show in the accounts.

I understand that when The Prince puts money into SUFC, that shows in the accounts.

But, the difficult optic here is .... if The Prince has to put money in to "save" Châteauroux, that is money he has sourced which he could have put into SUFC, but which he hasn't.

That is the United World drain that United fans will worry about.

(I'll also go on record as saying - no football fans deserve to see their club go down/go under because of a fucking ego project. So, I hope the money is found for, and spent on, Châteauroux.)
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I understand that if The Prince ever takes money out of SUFC, that would show in the accounts.

I understand that when The Prince puts money into SUFC, that shows in the accounts.

But, the difficult optic here is .... if The Prince has to put money in to "save" Châteauroux, that is money he has sourced which he could have put into SUFC, but which he hasn't.

That is the United World drain that United fans will worry about.

(I'll also go on record as saying - no football fans deserve to see their club go down/go under because of a fucking ego project. So, I hope the money is found for, and spent on, Châteauroux.)
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Spot on!
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I understand that if The Prince ever takes money out of SUFC, that would show in the accounts.

I understand that when The Prince puts money into SUFC, that shows in the accounts.

But, the difficult optic here is .... if The Prince has to put money in to "save" Châteauroux, that is money he has sourced which he could have put into SUFC, but which he hasn't.

That is the United World drain that United fans will worry about.

(I'll also go on record as saying - no football fans deserve to see their club go down/go under because of a fucking ego project. So, I hope the money is found for, and spent on, Châteauroux.)
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This is spot on and this is the point people should be making.

Not that he's robbing from Peter (SUFC) to pay Paul (UW clubs).

It might also be that he's raising money against the assets of the UW clubs that he's funding, like he has with SUFC, in which case we're not foregoing money to benefit UW.
 
I'm surprised the Prince isn't trying to do a buy one get United world free deal with us tbh.
 
derekacorah said:
This is spot on and this is the point people should be making.

Not that he's robbing from Peter (SUFC) to pay Paul (UW clubs).

It might also be that he's raising money against the assets of the UW clubs that he's funding, like he has with SUFC, in which case we're not foregoing money to benefit UW.
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My only real problem is the money we pay to the central UW pot for services that we don't use. I wish no ill on the other clubs lumbered with this daft situation
 
Carlton Blade said:
My only real problem is the money we pay to the central UW pot for services that we don't use. I wish no ill on the other clubs lumbered with this daft situation
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That's a separate debate in my view.

The point I'd have an issue with is around the scarcity of capital. E.g. if Abdullah had say £10m in the bank after his numbers come up on the Saudi Lotto this weekend, we (his first club and in my view the club who he should focus on!) need £10m for 2 players to make us competitive next season and he could fund these without putting more debt on the company and still have money left for the heating and a few tins of beans at Abdullah Towers.

Also Kerala United have decided Kerala is shit so they want to move to Hyderabad now and change names again and need £2m, Beerschot want a couple of players for £2m and Chateauroux are fucked so they need £2m.

That leaves us with £4m, if he decides that they are all equal priorities to us. Selfishly I want all £10m for SUFC, so the UW group is causing us problems in that sense.

All hypothetical I know.
 
derekacorah said:
That's a separate debate in my view.

The point I'd have an issue with is around the scarcity of capital. E.g. if Abdullah had say £10m in the bank after his numbers come up on the Saudi Lotto this weekend, we (his first club and in my view the club who he should focus on!) need £10m for 2 players to make us competitive next season and he could fund these without putting more debt on the company and still have money left for the heating and a few tins of beans at Abdullah Towers.

Also Kerala United have decided Kerala is shit so they want to move to Hyderabad now and change names again and need £2m, Beerschot want a couple of players for £2m and Chateauroux are fucked so they need £2m.

That leaves us with £4m, if he decides that they are all equal priorities to us. Selfishly I want all £10m for SUFC, so the UW group is causing us problems in that sense.

All hypothetical I know.
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The problem is Alghamedi the CEO of United World and SUFC Board member has said in the past all clubs are treated equally and we have to go to the top table with our begging bowl along with the others in terms of investment. Thats the problem I have with UW. Having said that there has been little in the way of investment secured by UW outside of the current shirt deal.

SUFC are wholly owned by the Prince and subsequently United World, Beerschot and Chatearoux are not. We are the leading light and have raised the profile of UW significantly with our promotion back to the EPL yet we are treated on an equal footing with clubs of lesser standing. The model doesn't work and will not do so whilst there is firstly a lack of funding and secondly where the Club with the highest standing does not get the lions share of any available funding/ investment. Just to add if Beerschot were in the champions league I would have no issue with them being the ones getting the larger slice of the investment cake available.

For SUFC to progress we need to unbundle from UW.
 
Addison said:
The problem is Alghamedi the CEO of United World and SUFC Board member has said in the past all clubs are treated equally and we have to go to the top table with our begging bowl along with the others in terms of investment. Thats the problem I have with UW. Having said that there has been little in the way of investment secured by UW outside of the current shirt deal.

SUFC are wholly owned by the Prince and subsequently United World, Beerschot and Chatearoux are not. We are the leading light and have raised the profile of UW significantly with our promotion back to the EPL yet we are treated on an equal footing with clubs of lesser standing. The model doesn't work and will not do so whilst there is firstly a lack of funding and secondly where the Club with the highest standing does not get the lions share of any available funding/ investment. Just to add if Beerschot were in the champions league I would have no issue with them being the ones getting the larger slice of the investment cake available.

For SUFC to progress we need to unbundle from UW.
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The last point is a valid one, we are the top club in the UW stable and probably pay more of the shared costs, therefore we should expect more back from them.

We seem to get the shitty end of the deal as none of our younger players seem to be developing at any of the sister clubs yet we are seemingly financially worse off as a result of being part of UW. Granted we aren't on the brink (yet) as Chateauroux seemingly are, so it might be said that they are doing worse out of it than we are!
 
Addison said:
The problem is Alghamedi the CEO of United World and SUFC Board member has said in the past all clubs are treated equally and we have to go to the top table with our begging bowl along with the others in terms of investment. Thats the problem I have with UW. Having said that there has been little in the way of investment secured by UW outside of the current shirt deal.

SUFC are wholly owned by the Prince and subsequently United World, Beerschot and Chatearoux are not. We are the leading light and have raised the profile of UW significantly with our promotion back to the EPL yet we are treated on an equal footing with clubs of lesser standing. The model doesn't work and will not do so whilst there is firstly a lack of funding and secondly where the Club with the highest standing does not get the lions share of any available funding/ investment. Just to add if Beerschot were in the champions league I would have no issue with them being the ones getting the larger slice of the investment cake available.

For SUFC to progress we need to unbundle from UW.
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Don’t disagree at all but without knowing exactly what funding the other clubs have received l’d guess we do get the lions share, based purely on the tercentenary share issues.
 
They started their pre-season training yesterday.

They expected it to be led by the u17 coach but even he didn't show up!

In the end it was the coach of the u16s who took the session.

One senior pro had been excused, Basque, and another was nursing an injury, recent signing Mustapha Fall (not a made up name btw) so it meant just 6 pros and the youth team.

Players under pro contracts: Adama Mbengue, Aloys Fouda, Kenan Toibibou, Romain Basque (absent), Tarek Baïch, Moustapha Fall (toe injury), Natanaël Thio, François Mendy.
Players under elite amateur contracts: Jason Gnakpa, Téo James Michel.
Players from the academy: Moussa Ba, Samuel Folgoat, Gaëtan Melisse, Mattéo Massy, Isaac Luneko, Ethan Bakeya, Yanis Bensaïd, Fred Kingue, Jad Koembo, Allan Masuke, Sascha Touodop.
Technical staff: Baptiste Mantaux, Thomas Martinet, Nabil Ghammit.

It now seems the required cash could be provided as late as next Friday but they would face an uphill struggle to build a squad from so little. Their Transfermarkt page looks so pathetic. Given some of the pros are from the B team. I think they had about 5 listed.

I suppose we can send over 7 players on loan to give them a hand though there seems little concept of collaboration!

Meanwhile, Beerschot fans will not be that pleased PurpleRain ?

Dante Rigo was allowed to leave, the midfield starter alongside Captain Ryan Sanusi has joined Ligue 2 Grenoble at the end of his deal. In comes Welat Cagro, 1m88 midfielder who last played in the Netherlands but hasn't played for a year!

In addition. My man Ilias Sebaoui, who inexplicably didn't kick on last year after a really promising emergence, has joined Feyenoord of the Eredivisie on a 2 year deal with an option of a third. Initially he goes to FC Dordrecht on loan. Not clear what fee is involved as he was under contract.

I'm addition, the one player I thought could be valuable to them Thibo Baeten, last season's top scorer, is being linked with a move to Go Ahead Eagles. That would leave them with two relatively novice strikers in Koyde and Kosiah.

One plus is that Mike Vanhamel, the keeper, former captain and sometime United World spy has finally agreed a contract termination.

At least they have one kit out. A nice all black away number with silver, reminiscent of ours from a few seasons back.

So, unless given to them by TV, it doesn't seem much money is being made available and the old self-sufficient mantra is being rolled out in full.
 
There was an interview this Saterday with our general manager giving a status update. Owners are in discussions with two candidates for a buyout. One German group and one US group but no names mentioned. Pending the discussions no money will be invested and only a minimum budget has been put in place to keep the club alive. No money for transfers. When players are sold like Sebaoui a transfer free player can come in to make up numbers. Also the new training facilities were once more cancelled despite that a 50% subsidy was obtained and now likely will be lost. The situation is negative. There are doubts that the takeover talks will lead to anything. Rumor has it that the asking price of 15mio is much too high since the club is in a worse state then it was when prince bogroll arrived. We were 2nd and averaged over 8.000. Now we are mid table at best the coming season and attendances have dropped. The promised training facilities were never realized. Obviously Chateauroux are in an even worse state. It does seem like the Blades were managed the best of the clubs in the group. But if you can’t find a good new owner for a PL team with loads of potential, you have to question what is going on. Only explanation I can think off is that princey is way too greedy and has little realizations to show for and to justify a big pay check. New owners will need to invest massively in whatever club of the UW group they would buy. The statement of princey that they would leave each of their clubs in a better state when they would leave appears a lie at least for Chateauroux and us. In the case of the Blades I guess you can differ in opinion on that.
 
I feel really bad for the fans of both Beesrchot and Chateauroux. I'm really confused about the UW premise.

He picks up us, in the Championship, an unfashionable side in an unfashionable city.
He pick up a side in the Flemish speaking part of Belgium in a fairly unfashionable city
He picks up a French side with a good record for its academy but little else in the middle of France with seemingly not a lot going for it.

Was there any attempt to link us up, outside of a few terribly botched loans of youth players to Belgium?

No attempt to get fans to have anything to do with each other.

No attempt to try and foster links.

Just perplexing. At least McCabe's little world benefitted his own business interests!
 
robbiez666 said:
I feel really bad for the fans of both Beesrchot and Chateauroux. I'm really confused about the UW premise.

He picks up us, in the Championship, an unfashionable side in an unfashionable city.
He pick up a side in the Flemish speaking part of Belgium in a fairly unfashionable city
He picks up a French side with a good record for its academy but little else in the middle of France with seemingly not a lot going for it.

Was there any attempt to link us up, outside of a few terribly botched loans of youth players to Belgium?

No attempt to get fans to have anything to do with each other.

No attempt to try and foster links.

Just perplexing. At least McCabe's little world benefitted his own business interests!
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We were in League 1 when he joined. Openly with a view to make money on his investment.

Antwerp is Belgium’s second biggest city and is known for its diamond district.

Not all deals work out. Look at Jordan at Palace for one. The Prince has probably spread himself too thin. Without the Saudi and Indian clubs. Had we got good players from them all but the antiSaud lot would be happy. Fine lines and easy risk free judgements to make.

Chengdu and CCM cost McCabe money. Think he might have done okay at Fradi.
 

Sean Thornton said:
We were in League 1 when he joined. Openly with a view to make money on his investment.

Antwerp is Belgium’s second biggest city and is known for its diamond district.

Not all deals work out. Look at Jordan at Palace for one. The Prince has probably spread himself too thin. Without the Saudi and Indian clubs. Had we got good players from them all but the antiSaud lot would be happy. Fine lines and easy risk free judgements to make.

Chengdu and CCM cost McCabe money. Think he might have done okay at Fradi.
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It's just the fact the clubs never seem to make more of it. No pre-season friendlies, no encouraging fans to visit. It's what I kind of expected. Let alone the link-up with players, especially at youth level.

As for McCabe, I think he saw those as personal investments.
 
robbiez666 said:
It's just the fact the clubs never seem to make more of it. No pre-season friendlies, no encouraging fans to visit. It's what I kind of expected. Let alone the link-up with players, especially at youth level.

As for McCabe, I think he saw those as personal investments.
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I get that.

Chengdu apart, you’re correct about McCabe, although he was a player in China long before.
 
Sean Thornton said:
We were in League 1 when he joined. Openly with a view to make money on his investment.

Antwerp is Belgium’s second biggest city and is known for its diamond district.

Not all deals work out. Look at Jordan at Palace for one. The Prince has probably spread himself too thin. Without the Saudi and Indian clubs. Had we got good players from them all but the antiSaud lot would be happy. Fine lines and easy risk free judgements to make.

Chengdu and CCM cost McCabe money. Think he might have done okay at Fradi.
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There isn't a Saudi Club under the United World umbrella.
 
Just noticed that there are actually now 4 divisions in UAE.

Al Hilal play in the second division, which is below the first division and pro league, so the third tier.

I'm struggling to see the point apart from Phil's Polo Shirt analogy.

I'm failing to see what benefit to Chateauroux, Beerschot or United this team possesses. Similarly the India team that was displaced. I don't see what the attraction is. I assume they also cost money and don't make any. Would have been better sticking to fewer clubs and getting some collaboration going.

I can well imagine he is looking to gradually back out of the lot.

At least Beerschot don't have to feign gratitude for borrowing players from us that they seemingly didn't want or need. The ironic thing is that Chateauroux do have a need but there is no talk of the other group members being pulled in to help them out.

He's probably come over better in Sheffield than Chateauroux but the whole Rich Man's play thing probably feels that way in France right now.

I think Polo shirts are a less expensive venture to satisfy this craving!
 
Beerschot shedding further players.

Soumaré, who had just returned, though didn't give the impression he wanted to stay, just got moved on to Le Havre for around 400k. Also, probably their best defender Jan Van Den Bergh expressed a desire to leave so has now joined NAC Breda, for what fee it wasn't indicated.

It leaves them with 19 players and an average age of 23.
 
I do find it amusing that we were worried that ALK would asset strip if they took us over and now UW seem to be selling anyone worth anything at both Beerschot and Chateauroux.

I'm a little puzzled it isn't happening here. I presume it will next season if/when we go down.
 
diode_blade said:
Sos if already posted, brilliant interview by Hal. Thanks.
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I think that review goes a long way to explaining about the Unite World costs and How we can benefit from them. It seems to be no help to any club apart from SUFC.
It also explains why we seem to have very little income available to invest in new players.

If I was a supporter of Brum, Preston, Reading or Blackburn I would be very worried
 
Seems to be one of those things in terms of costs.

You don't have no Scouting network. But from our side, unless I'm mistaken, we paid 3.5m over the past 2 years to United World for Insurance, Directors Expenses and primarily Scouting, when we've made one perm signing and that was Jack Lester's mate.

I'd imagine paying similar and funding oversees Prem recruitment might justify the expense more.
 
Champagneblade said:
Seems to be one of those things in terms of costs.

You don't have no Scouting network. But from our side, unless I'm mistaken, we paid 3.5m over the past 2 years to United World for Insurance, Directors Expenses and primarily Scouting, when we've made one perm signing and that was Jack Lester's mate.

I'd imagine paying similar and funding oversees Prem recruitment might justify the expense more.
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I’m more concerned that United paid consultant’s fees to a negotiator for the Ramsdale deal.

Is there no-one at board level suitably qualified? Sorry, that appears to be a rhetorical question given transfer fees paid in recent years
 
As suggested, Baeten has now joined Go Ahead Eagles for a few of 400k plus 100k add ons after he expressed an interest to play at a higher level. He only made a loan permanent this summer. I'd imagine a healthy profit there.

Probably over a million in the kitty on fees alone this past week.

But the locals in Belgium are beyond annoyed, more asking the last one to turn the lights out!

Down to 18 players now.
 

Champagneblade said:
As suggested, Baeten has now joined Go Ahead Eagles for a few of 400k plus 100k add ons after he expressed an interest to play at a higher level. He only made a loan permanent this summer. I'd imagine a healthy profit there.

Probably over a million in the kitty on fees alone this past week.

But the locals in Belgium are beyond annoyed, more asking the last one to turn the lights out!

Down to 18 players now.
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Thorisson is the next one to leave, to MLS. It’s a fire sale and with what’s left over it will be another relegation season. Anger is growing and I expect that the first home game will be one with lots of fireworks and another multiple week stadium ban as a result.
 
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