Is this really our only option...?

[Kenilworth]

He literally won us 92 points last season, really don't understand why he gets so muck flack for a club legend. Some poor bits of transfer business sure totally get that but he knows how to win games of football and get out of this division ffs and he unites the fan base. Style of football? sure not the most progressive or modern way of playing but again it wins games of football. Get behind him and lets get out of this mess

And let’s not forget, he and Knill were responsible for one of the most successful innovations in years. This tired and cliche’d response of him being too old school is just the same tired and cliche’d nonsense that was talked about Bassett. When you are playing with hand me downs and fewer resources than your peers you have to use all you have to make a difference.

 

[Bladesman101]

A lot of what I'm about to say has probably been picked up in other threads, but I don't know that there's one that really captures it all.
Ruben Selles has clearly been a disastrous appointment. I think it was well-intentioned, with an eye to the future, but one that hasn't worked out. Whilst Selles himself was probably out of his depth, his appointment was only one part of a series of changes that needed to be made, in relation to overall strategy, management and coaching structure, recruitment etc. That none of the other changes happened, probably meant that, whomever the coach was, they'd have struggled, to a greater or lesser degree. I was a supporter of moving on from Wilder; as was said on the late, lamented Bladespod, the new approach had a higher ceiling, but also perhaps a lower floor. Sadly, it's the latter of those two predictions which has come to pass. Doesn't necessarily mean that the vision was wrong; however, clearly, the strategy and execution underpinning it was deeply flawed.

So, Selles' position became untenable and he was dismissed. But is going back to Wilder really the best we can do? I have mixed feelings on this. I think that it's unquestionably the safest thing we can do. He's only been out of the building for five minutes, so will be able to pick up where he left off. He does seem to be able to inspire a team (though interestingly, it only seems to work with United, as his other body of work is underwhelming), and I think that the threat of relegation is eliminated by his return.

But...
Really? Wilder? Is he really the best possible option for the club? Is there really no way to move on? People wax lyrical about how he "gets" the club, how he's "one of our own" and all that tosh, when none of that seems to matter when we're talking about professional players, paid to do a job to the best of their ability. What does it even mean, to "get" the club? What makes SUFC apparently uniquely ungettable by other managers, coaches or owners? I'm genuinely curious. I understand that Wilder has a special place in the club's history, and that he's been canonised by an appreciable proportion of the fanbase. But, sooner or later, for one reason or another, he'll have to move on. What then? I've seen, in these threads, Billy Sharp and Chris Basham cited as possible replacements. Again: really? Is Bladey-bladeness in a coach all we can reasonably aspire to? These are club legends - but with zero coaching experience. On paper at least, Selles would be a better hire!

Like I said, I think Wilder will get us out of this mess. But as fans of a club that will endure long after Wilder, we should be looking for evidence of the next step and the one after that. We need a club and a process that is not in thrall to one man. Everyone cites Brighton as the model for a well run club. Their managers and players are regularly picked off... and it doesn't matter, because they have underlying strategy and clarity of purpose. I very much hope that one thing that comes out of this debacle is that a deeply experienced football director (not CW! That would have echoes of Putin oscillating between president and PM) is appointed, who will figure out what we want to be, what we need to get there - and then start working through it.

I really don’t agree with this post and think it’s just going round and round in circles. He gets the club and all that but they are just bonuses.

In his first spell, he took over when we finished 11 in league 1, and left when we were on the verge of relegation from the premier league. That was successful.

In his second spell, he took a club who’d been getting destroyed week in week out with a team not good enough (he basically picked up where he left off). He gained 92 points in a season and lost in a PO Final. For me that’s a successful season in terms of has he done his job for the club.

If a man from Bristol who supported Bristol City came in and had those achievements we’d be very happy to see him return.

You contradicted yourself as well, you ask do we “really” need to get wilder but then go on to say “he will get us out of this mess”. If you’re confident he’ll do that then yes get him back. Make no mistake, after what I’ve seen this season, the wrong appointment could easily lead to a relegation battle, so if you have someone you think will definitely fix it, appoint him!!!

 

[Kenilworth]

It would be refreshing for him to show some humility from the start.

Admit that we fucked up spectacularly at the back end of last season ( even taking into account Burnley and Leeds’ form)

Admit that we were negative for large parts of last season.

Admit that he got it wrong in the second half / last 20 mins of the play off final and even further got it wrong at the end of the match when he disappeared down then tunnel straightaway.

Might go some way to bringing some of the nay sayers on board and install a bit more unity amongst the fans.

Like many others have said, we need a structure in place that supports succession and progression in team management.

People are so swift to rewrite history or to conveniently forget the situation prior to the start of last season. I’m seeing a lot of whinging about antics, embarrassing moments, ancient and outdated tactics etc.

The main gripes I’ve observed about last season are:
1. the turgid football that was less than entertaining

2. The scraping of 1-0 wins - by getting a goal in front and grinding out a victory

3. The fact we ran out of steam on 60 mins and weren’t capable of addressing that with any tactical changes or substitutions.

4. We were ahead of Leeds and Burnley and then screwed it up in the final weeks.

All these in the backdrop of

1. A disastrous and soul destroying season in the Prem that would have sapped the confidence of anyone.

2. 19 players leaving, many of whom had been absolute stalwarts for the club during the previous 6 years

3. Trying to rebuild a competitive squad without a huge pot to do so - adding key players in key positions. Cooper, Campbell, Souttar, Burrows, COH, Gilchrist, JRS - plus retaining Hamer and Souza (what a decent window that was compared to the shite (Tanga aside) we’ve had this one).

4. Doing 3. In time for the season kick off.

5. George Baldock’s tragic death and the effect on the club.

6. Arblaster ACL - losing your captain and brighter prospect in November.

7. Losing Harry Souttar on New Year’s Day - an absolute defensive rock for us.

8. Beginning the season with a -2 points penalty

9. Competing (which we did) with Leeds and Burnley, who both accumulated 100 points each an and had squads worth far more than ours.


And we also did the steel city double, last season, again.

 

[TJ blade]

A lot of what I'm about to say has probably been picked up in other threads, but I don't know that there's one that really captures it all.
Ruben Selles has clearly been a disastrous appointment. I think it was well-intentioned, with an eye to the future, but one that hasn't worked out. Whilst Selles himself was probably out of his depth, his appointment was only one part of a series of changes that needed to be made, in relation to overall strategy, management and coaching structure, recruitment etc. That none of the other changes happened, probably meant that, whomever the coach was, they'd have struggled, to a greater or lesser degree. I was a supporter of moving on from Wilder; as was said on the late, lamented Bladespod, the new approach had a higher ceiling, but also perhaps a lower floor. Sadly, it's the latter of those two predictions which has come to pass. Doesn't necessarily mean that the vision was wrong; however, clearly, the strategy and execution underpinning it was deeply flawed.

So, Selles' position became untenable and he was dismissed. But is going back to Wilder really the best we can do? I have mixed feelings on this. I think that it's unquestionably the safest thing we can do. He's only been out of the building for five minutes, so will be able to pick up where he left off. He does seem to be able to inspire a team (though interestingly, it only seems to work with United, as his other body of work is underwhelming), and I think that the threat of relegation is eliminated by his return.

But...
Really? Wilder? Is he really the best possible option for the club? Is there really no way to move on? People wax lyrical about how he "gets" the club, how he's "one of our own" and all that tosh, when none of that seems to matter when we're talking about professional players, paid to do a job to the best of their ability. What does it even mean, to "get" the club? What makes SUFC apparently uniquely ungettable by other managers, coaches or owners? I'm genuinely curious. I understand that Wilder has a special place in the club's history, and that he's been canonised by an appreciable proportion of the fanbase. But, sooner or later, for one reason or another, he'll have to move on. What then? I've seen, in these threads, Billy Sharp and Chris Basham cited as possible replacements. Again: really? Is Bladey-bladeness in a coach all we can reasonably aspire to? These are club legends - but with zero coaching experience. On paper at least, Selles would be a better hire!

Like I said, I think Wilder will get us out of this mess. But as fans of a club that will endure long after Wilder, we should be looking for evidence of the next step and the one after that. We need a club and a process that is not in thrall to one man. Everyone cites Brighton as the model for a well run club. Their managers and players are regularly picked off... and it doesn't matter, because they have underlying strategy and clarity of purpose. I very much hope that one thing that comes out of this debacle is that a deeply experienced football director (not CW! That would have echoes of Putin oscillating between president and PM) is appointed, who will figure out what we want to be, what we need to get there - and then start working through it.

Your wasting your time mate, no out of towner, who's no connection to the club will ever be excepted at the club, could be were just a village club, which fans enjoy tooing and frowing within the championship top six & mid table... sad really

 

[William Large]

People are so swift to rewrite history or to conveniently forget the situation prior to the start of last season. I’m seeing a lot of whinging about antics, embarrassing moments, ancient and outdated tactics etc.

The main gripes I’ve observed about last season are:
1. the turgid football that was less than entertaining

2. The scraping of 1-0 wins - by getting a goal in front and grinding out a victory

3. The fact we ran out of steam on 60 mins and weren’t capable of addressing that with any tactical changes or substitutions.

4. We were ahead of Leeds and Burnley and then screwed it up in the final weeks.

All these in the backdrop of

1. A disastrous and soul destroying season in the Prem that would have sapped the confidence of anyone.

2. 19 players leaving, many of whom had been absolute stalwarts for the club during the previous 6 years

3. Trying to rebuild a competitive squad without a huge pot to do so - adding key players in key positions. Cooper, Campbell, Souttar, Burrows, COH, Gilchrist, JRS - plus retaining Hamer and Souza (what a decent window that was compared to the shite (Tanga aside) we’ve had this one).

4. Doing 3. In time for the season kick off.

5. George Baldock’s tragic death and the effect on the club.

6. Arblaster ACL - losing your captain and brighter prospect in November.

7. Losing Harry Souttar on New Year’s Day - an absolute defensive rock for us.

8. Beginning the season with a -2 points penalty

9. Competing (which we did) with Leeds and Burnley, who both accumulated 100 points each an and had squads worth far more than ours.


And we also did the steel city double, last season, again.

Preaching to the converted in me pal.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I think right now, yes it’s the best option to try and rescue the season.

It’s definitely a panic move from COH and I also don’t think I’d trust them to bring in someone else to be fair.

Are you saying that as long as COH are the owners Wilder is the only manager we could ever possibly have?

 

[Houston_Blade]

It's not because Chrissy is one of our own or he gets the club at all. They're just bonuses. It's because he's actually a very good football manager. I just can't fathom why some of our fanbase can't see this as the only thing that matters because within our limitations as a football club in terms of size, the league we're in and current position I don't see a better manager than Wilder who we could get. He also knows many of the players and succeeded with them last season. But no, let's get Michael Carrick or why can't we get Sean Dyche. Probably because he knows he's got a great chance if a OK club. Then you've got some fans who dont want Dyche because his football is defensive! Deary me, that's the one thing we need sorting more than anything else.

So you can make out that it's fans saying none of that foreign muck but it's far more because Wilder has a very good record as a manager, end of.

He’s a good manager for us. He’s not done anything of note with other Championship clubs, he’s definitely the best option for us under the structure we currently have in place. He’s also keeps a lot of fans happy because he ticks the boxes around being a Blade and ‘getting us’.

 

[KMC-1889]

And let’s not forget, he and Knill were responsible for one of the most successful innovations in years. This tired and cliche’d response of him being too old school is just the same tired and cliche’d nonsense that was talked about Bassett. When you are playing with hand me downs and fewer resources than your peers you have to use all you have to make a difference.

That innovation was nearly ten years ago, his last bit of success with us was nearly six years ago.

People love the memory of Wilder, rather than the reality.

 

[SwissBlade]

Are you saying that as long as COH are the owners Wilder is the only manager we could ever possibly have?

No

But they clearly don’t have a clue what they’re doing, footballing wise. So as I said, for now, wilder is the best choice for them to not fuck it up completely this season.

Would I trust them to make any decision next summer based on the decisions so far? No.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

It’s a very good thread & excellent points raised.

I think the unfortunate answer at the moment & bias aside he’s probably our best available option because of where we are.

The majority of the players know him & loved playing for him (from what I’ve been told)

He knows the club, understands the fans & will have a large majority of them backing him on Saturday / delighted he’s returned.

Do I think it’s good long term? No. I didn’t mind him being sacked in the summer, the frustrating thing was we as a club aren’t ready for anyone other than Wilder at the moment because the owners don’t seem to know what they’re doing & there’s no infrastructure between the owners & the football management team

 

[SwissBlade]

That innovation was nearly ten years ago, his last bit of success with us was nearly six years ago.

People love the memory of Wilder, rather than the reality.

Seemed to do pretty well last season given the circumstances… better than some what to believe

 

[KMC-1889]

Seemed to do pretty well last season given the circumstances… better than some what to believe

Finished third with the third biggest budget in the league, lost every game against the top teams and bottled the final to a team that finished 16 points behind him.

Great success.

 

[SwissBlade]

Finished third with the third biggest budget in the league, lost every game against the top teams and bottled the final to a team that finished 16 points behind him.

Great success.

Been through this chat before, but last summer was ia big achievement on its own.

My view of last season was that we did pretty well. As I said,

Was it ultimately a success? No, because the two sides that finished above us were both exceptional, as stats also prove.

But you want to make others believe that Wilder was only good 10 years ago? Nah, we finished 9th in 2020. Check your stats and budgets for that year as well…

Not sure anyone is really suggesting that we’ll see innovative tactics that we saw to get us from league 1 to the premier league… and keep us in the premier league but Wilder certainly gets results, he did last season. That’s the point really

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Much I usually like your posts I hope you are wrong on this one.

IF CoH are going cap in hand to Wilder then what you suggest might be the case.

I hope it is not as, notwithstanding the poor position we are in and the uphill struggle we face, Wilder needs to show some humility and suggest he is coming back with the best of intentions and not to lord it over the owners, the club or anyone else.

He should not be given, nor is he entitled to, carte blanche. He is an employee and if he thinks and behaves as if he is someone much more than that I hope he doesn’t come back.

I think his ego only takes the job, working with these owners if he gets carte blanche....

Don't get me wrong, he absolutely shouldn't but i just don't see him coming back unless he now has the power....

 

[BlairBlade]

I think his ego only takes the job, working with these owners if he gets carte blanche....

Don't get me wrong, he absolutely shouldn't but i just don't see him coming back unless he now has the power....

Who knows maybe Dave Challinor will make it to the Lane ……… some day. Wilder hasn’t been re-appointed yet, has he?

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

But it's constantly claimed that the fans ARE the club, and "the club would be nothing without the fans".

Is this bollocks?

What about the punters?

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Nice one .

I think there are 2 rooms on here .

Wilder gets results which is undoubtedly what we need .. unfortunately some of us got frustrated with the antics and blaming everyone but himself.. some humility wouldn't go amiss .

Like most just hoping for a change in results more than anything , steady the ship and let's all take it from there .

I hear you.

We sacked a 7 out of 10 championship manager because we thought we could do better. We ended up with a 1 out of 10 championship manager and are hurriedly reverting back to the 7 out of 10 manager.

Were we right to do so - that's up for debate. Did we fuck up and seriously downgrade - no debate whatsoever. What should we do next time - that's anyone's guess!!

 

[Youngand70]

If the owners choose to bring Wilder back then who manages Wilder, he needs managing and its clear that Bettis cant do it.
Call it DOF or whatever but it needs a strong football person who takes no shit and the authority to hire and fire .

The scene from lock stock immediately springs to mind ..

" If you get pissed in the Banner ,you're sacked , if you start fights and get fines , your sacked , if you say something when weve told you to keep you mouth shut , your sacked , if your mates tweet shit your sacked...in fact Chris your going to find it difficult to stay employed"

How dare you criticise Mr Bettis he's the best CEO since before sliced bread Director of Football - please stop blastpheming that would be in the real world.

 

[YES Blade]

It feels a bit like having a mate that’s split up with his girlfriend, starts seeing another girl which doesn’t work out, so ends up going back to the ex.

You’re left thinking surely there is someone else out there for him? See how it goes with a few more before going crawling back to the ex.

 

[Striker]

Your wasting your time mate, no out of towner, who's no connection to the club will ever be excepted at the club, could be were just a village club, which fans enjoy tooing and frowing within the championship top six & mid table... sad really

Dave Bassett????

 

[luffenhamblade]

Your wasting your time mate, no out of towner, who's no connection to the club will ever be excepted at the club, could be were just a village club, which fans enjoy tooing and frowing within the championship top six & mid table... sad really

Just so, so far from reality... sad really

 

[The Fox]

How dare you criticise Mr Bettis he's the best CEO since before sliced bread Director of Football - please stop blastpheming that would be in the real world.

Actually I take the tongue in cheek comment but I think whilst Bettis is a competent CEO he struggled to keep a reign on Wilder, albeit that may not be in his remit to be fair.

Perhaps that's going to be PA'S job .

 

[TJ blade]

Dave Bassett????

Now pal... probably when we had some sensible fans on board! Instead of some of the neanderthals what follow us away now

 

[TJ blade]

Are you saying that as long as COH are the owners Wilder is the only manager we could ever possibly have?

Think that's what the fans want mate. Probably Sharp/ Bash/ Montgomery/anybody really whats got connections or had them. Unmanageable really from all accounts

 

[Nick Jansky]

No

But they clearly don’t have a clue what they’re doing, footballing wise. So as I said, for now, wilder is the best choice for them to not fuck it up completely this season.

Would I trust them to make any decision next summer based on the decisions so far? No.

You don’t expect them to have learned any lessons from it then?

 

[Kenilworth]

That innovation was nearly ten years ago, his last bit of success with us was nearly six years ago.

People love the memory of Wilder, rather than the reality.

It continued into 2019-20 so only five years ago it was still innovative.

Perhaps you’d care to mention the innovations the other bandied about candidates like Cooper, Dyche, Mousinho, Challinor and the hapless mr Selles have been responsible for?

Besides Cooper, which of the other candidates has a Premiership promotion campaign win? Which of those has an LMA manager of the year award - as voted for by their peers.

It’s OK diminishing past achievements and chalking them off as irrelevant but you have no guarantee that anything alternative & new will be anywhere near the success it needs to be whilst the infrastructure remains the same.

 

[Pintor75]

Just a thought
If wilder comes back and he's not a success the third time around will it be
1 - because Selles brought in the players,?
2 - will there be calls for Hecky to return?
3 - will wilder fans accept that, that's enough we need someone new entirely.?

 

[blade too long]

Short answer no. Is their objectively a proven manager with a better CV out there than Wilder that would come to us and that we could afford? I think you know the answer. The two most compelling proposals were Dyche and Nuno. Dyche was divisive and Nuno was laughed off (on here). It's heresy to point it out on here but we're very lucky to have the Wilder option.

RE: Bladey Bladeyness or whatever the next asinine buzz phrase is used to describe anyone with Blades pedigree getting a job at the club. It doesnt exist. Warnock got the job due to his excellent record before arriving at BL. His sacking was very harsh. Wilder got the job due to his Northampton miracle and prior successes at all levels below (he has a brilliant body of work). He got the job again due to his Blades miracle and prior successful career. He has the job again due to the excellent job he did last season (acknowledged almost everywhere except here) and the chronic failure of the unbelievably naive Selles appointment. A Saudi Prince and an American consortium appointed Wilder because he's a Blade? You really believe that? If so please PM to buy my bridge in London and my spare packet of magic beans. There's a guy who just got sacked that had nowhere near the CV to justify getting a plum Champ job over a guy with a much better CV. Now that was illogical. Spainy Spainyness?

The players with Blades backgrounds that sign at all levels do so because they're excellent at football. My Kingdom for peak Sharp, Maguire, Walker, Woodward, Jones etc etc etc. The vast majority of footballers who support United never have a professional career at United. How does that fit in with the Bladey Bladeyness concept?! It doesn't because it's bollocks. If Arblaster was shit he wouldn't be here.

You make some interesting points about structure but don't address the elephant in the room that sacking Wilder was totally unnecessary. There's zero evidence that he wouldn't work within a different structure nor that the existing structure has a higher ceiling or lower floor than any other. Indeed Wilder is one of two managers to keep a club in the Premier League with a small overall budget in a long time. So the ceiling is 9th in the Prem and the floor 3rd in the Champ. I'd loveDyche who is a staun to see the huge list of names that could do better with our likely (continued) budgets regardless of club

Not a chance of getting Nuno hed only take a prem job which leaves Dyche whos mega defensive way more than Wilder ...both would ask double at least what we get Wilder for...so neither is viable

 

[nopigfansintown]

Only 15 minutes? It was about an hour wasn't it?!

It was absolutely devastating to double the pigs and then rub their snouts in it on their own patch. Let's all pray it doesn't happen again so protect the delicate sensibilities of some.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Not a chance of getting Nuno hed only take a prem job which leaves Dyche whos mega defensive way more than Wilder ...both would ask double at least what we get Wilder for...so neither is viable

Wilder is massively digging us out of the shit. He should've sat on his contract living the life or riley whilst telling them to and to shove it but he hasn't. That's the measure of the man. His detractors must be unanimous in massively praising him today. I haven't read the board today but I'm expecting a lot if volte faces.