I Hope My Concerns Are Unwarranted.

[Sothall_Blade]

We don't have 35+ players over the age of 20

35 relates to the position we were in with NC, which was as I said a unsustainable position.
That's the bigger picture.

But we have never had 35+ Senior (aged over 20) players. Even last season under Clough the most we had at a time was about 22.
According to the list above, we currently still have 22 Senior players including Long and Kennedy who weren't 21 last season but are now.
We lost three over the Summer (Doyle, Turner and Davies) and have gained one (Woolford) leaving us with the same number overall.

I agree with the argument that we ideally need to lose 3 of the current senior players if we are going to sign another 3.
This should be achievable, as most players do not want to hang around all season with no prospect of playing.

I am not sure why people (not just you) keep trotting out the "fact" that we have a 35 man squad when we clearly don't and never have had.
Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have 11 or more Junior (20 and under) players under contract?
If so, which of these do you think we should have allowed to leave? (Reed? Calvert-Lewin? Willis? Dimaio? Whiteman? Khan? Wright?)
Are you able to state with certainty at this stage that they aren't going to make it and should therefore be released to reduce the squad size?
Our current and former coaches don't seem to think so and they're in a better position to judge than us.

 

[BushBlade]

can you name these 35... along with their annual income. I mean to know it's an unsustainable position you must not only know who the 35 are but how they sit within the wage structure... I mean for arguments sake if we had 35 YTS boys in just earning £15k a year that's only £525k a year... which is more than sustainable... however if we had 35 seasoned pro's on £520k a year (£18.2m) then by the token our turn over is less than half that then I would agree it's unsustainable... in reality it's somewhere in between.... now as I have kindly done, I request you name your 35 with added salary amounts to show this to be unsustainable... otherwise I will take it that whereas you require proof of others workings out, you cannot provide proof of your own and thus cannot maintain a reasoned debate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

 

[Barney]

From last night's game it's pretty clear to me that NA is not rushing to look at CB as it seems to me he is happy with McEv and Collo in the centre with McGahey as cover - and Bash if required.
I wouldn't bet on a new CB coming in before the season starts.

He's got to play somebody there though so I don't see your point here.

 

[Davie Blade]

OK, what excesses? To get him even close to Robson you are going to have to pull some real facts out here. Brayford is probably going to be your starting point so lets be honest where and when did we all stand and say "We shouldn't sign him because that's too much"? We don't actually know what the rest cost so this is going to be interesting. I don't believe Higdon will have cost a deal, most of the Scottish guys cost buttons and I can only think of Done (who we don't actually know what he cost) who may have been costing us a penny or two.

Then there is the offset that Robson never had as well. Clough gathered revenue from the sale of Harry plus what must run into millions for our two cup runs. So you could say Cloughs spending was almost self financing. Certainly not something you can say about Robson. Jim Phipps actually said the reason Clough could spend the money was the HM money and the cup runs.

If your comparison is they both spent money then well done Sherlock Holmes, but there the comparison ends.

As for Self Financing LOL
Oh dreary me.

It's a much bigger picture than just transfer fees between clubs.
We had this short sighted nonsense in an earlier thread on here.
One word sustainability.

Players are free are they?

Let's ignore the signing on fee's, the agent's fees and the cost of their wages over the lifetime of their contract.
Let's ignore the fact that in all Choughs' transfer dealings he managed to sign only 2 players (Basham and Adams) who would be worth more than what we paid for them. We paid over the odds for Done and Brayford.
In other words he invested the money from HM on other players (not his asset) and left us with what.
Even Inspector Clouseau might have worked that one that!

Lets ignore the fact that the club has a massively over bloated unbalanced squad that is thread bare on players capable of Championship quality.
Let's ignore the fact that this has led us to a massively high players wage bill.
Lets ignore the fact that you cant guarantee Cup run money ever year.

Clough bet the house on promotion in the JTW.

We'd be well fecked in the Prince pulled out, remember his investment like pissed up the wall parachute payments are finite too.

Both Robson and Clough got comparatively massive resources for their respective divisions, and both left us in
an fecking awful mess , with massively high wage bills, over bloated crap squads through piss poor stewardship of the money.

It might come as a shock to the NC fan boys but
The analogy with Robson is a fair and valid one.

The Emperor is dead move on!
Just give Adkins plenty of time to start clearing up the mess.

 

[Dkc]

Jim Phipps said on FB that we're still looking to strengthen

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Jim Phipps said on FB that we're still looking to strengthen

Lets hope Jim knows the difference between a centre back and a running back.

 

[AlienBlade]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

not quite sure what you are referrring to here... he has constantly asked for proof, yet when they reverse is asked to back up his own claims he goes either quiet or accused people of going off topic... I have stood by by claims and shown where I got the figure from, I havent invented some "pink invisible unicorn" that whispered a number in my ear.

also this isn't really a philisophical debate as both the number and the wages could be proved (maybe not by us but proved as fact none the less) ;-)

 

[Kenilworth]

He's got to play somebody there though so I don't see your point here.

I thought my point was crystal clear and well defined. Where do you need help?

 

[Guesty]

Lets hope Jim knows the difference between a centre back and a running back.

I've got my NFL FF league starting up soon, to be honest I could do with a good Running Back.

 

[BushBlade]

not quite sure what you are referrring to here... he has constantly asked for proof, yet when they reverse is asked to back up his own claims he goes either quiet or accused people of going off topic... I have stood by by claims and shown where I got the figure from, I havent invented some "pink invisible unicorn" that whispered a number in my ear.

also this isn't really a philisophical debate as both the number and the wages could be proved (maybe not by us but proved as fact none the less) ;-)

Calm down. I know what you're saying. I'm agreeing with you. You're not the one making unproven claims. It was just meant to be a light hearted aside.

 

[AlienBlade]

As for Self Financing LOL
Oh dreary me.

It's a much bigger picture than just transfer fees between clubs.
We had this short sighted nonsense in an earlier thread on here.
One word sustainability.

Players are free are they?

Let's ignore the signing on fee's, the agent's fees and the cost of their wages over the lifetime of their contract.
Let's ignore the fact that in all Choughs' transfer dealings he managed to sign only 2 players (Basham and Adams) who would be worth more than what we paid for them. We paid over the odds for Done and Brayford.
In other words he invested the money from HM on other players (not his asset) and left us with what.
Even Inspector Clouseau might have worked that one that!

Lets ignore the fact that the club has a massively over bloated unbalanced squad that is thread bare on players capable of Championship quality.
Let's ignore the fact that this has led us to a massively high players wage bill.
Lets ignore the fact that you cant guarantee Cup run money ever year.

Clough bet the house on promotion in the JTW.

We'd be well fecked in the Prince pulled out, remember his investment like pissed up the wall parachute payments are finite too.

Both Robson and Clough got comparatively massive resources for their respective divisions, and both left us in
an fecking awful mess , with massively high wage bills, over bloated crap squads through piss poor stewardship of the money.

It might come as a shock to the NC fan boys but
The analogy with Robson is a fair and valid one.

The Emperor is dead move on!
Just give Adkins plenty of time to start clearing up the mess.

as you dont know how much we paid for Done... how do you know we paid over the odds for a 20 goal a season striker... (bearing in mind these usually cost in excess of £1m)

if the prince pulled out McCabe would no doubt step in as he has always done (just like he has for the last 15 years)

as I have asked but you are yet to answer! name those people who make up this 35... and their respective wages as you are claiming we have been left with "massively high wage bills" despite the fact a lot of high earners left whilst clough was in charge.

the analogy with Robson is a poor one, as the majority of the mess was actually created by Weir and his large wages, the majority of the signings clough made will have been lesser in pay than those leaving during he tenure. yes he had to sign many players... but when you consider we didnt have a seniour full back in the side at the start of last season that was 4 required just there! we had one striker so he brought in 2 (so 6 quite justifiable players brought in to plug a hole where no players were) so Robson is actually more like Weir rather than Clough, Clough is probably more likened to Wilson or Blackwell, who spent money and enjoyed a "reasonable success"

 

[AlienBlade]

Calm down. I know what you're saying. I'm agreeing with you. You're not the one making unproven claims. It was just meant to be a light hearted aside.

no probs , he is just winding me up as he clearly knows he cant prove his claim hence his complete avoidence of responding... I clearly called his bluff and caught him with his metaphorical pants down.

 

[BushBlade]

no probs , he is just winding me up as he clearly knows he cant prove his claim hence his complete avoidence of responding... I clearly called his bluff and caught him with his metaphorical pants down.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

Edit: there's supposed to be a smiley at the end but for some reason my emoticons don't work on here.

 

[Pierre's PC]

Davie blade in shitpost shocker!

#topbanter

 

[Bladesway]

It might come as a shock to the NC fan boys but
The analogy with Robson is a fair and valid one.

No it isn't. I fundamentally disagree, so can we agree to disagree rather than going the whole week with "no your wrong". Thanks for the weapons grade sarcastic overbombing though, that and Barnyblades lack of getting irony has about made my day.

 

[Bladesway]

He's got to play somebody there though so I don't see your point here.

I see his point, you still wrestling with it?

 

[Barney]

As for Self Financing LOL
Oh dreary me.

It's a much bigger picture than just transfer fees between clubs.
We had this short sighted nonsense in an earlier thread on here.
One word sustainability.

Players are free are they?

Let's ignore the signing on fee's, the agent's fees and the cost of their wages over the lifetime of their contract.
Let's ignore the fact that in all Choughs' transfer dealings he managed to sign only 2 players (Basham and Adams) who would be worth more than what we paid for them. We paid over the odds for Done and Brayford.
In other words he invested the money from HM on other players (not his asset) and left us with what.
Even Inspector Clouseau might have worked that one that!

Lets ignore the fact that the club has a massively over bloated unbalanced squad that is thread bare on players capable of Championship quality.
Let's ignore the fact that this has led us to a massively high players wage bill.
Lets ignore the fact that you cant guarantee Cup run money ever year.

Clough bet the house on promotion in the JTW.

We'd be well fecked in the Prince pulled out, remember his investment like pissed up the wall parachute payments are finite too.

Both Robson and Clough got comparatively massive resources for their respective divisions, and both left us in
an fecking awful mess , with massively high wage bills, over bloated crap squads through piss poor stewardship of the money.

It might come as a shock to the NC fan boys but
The analogy with Robson is a fair and valid one.

The Emperor is dead move on!
Just give Adkins plenty of time to start clearing up the mess.

Don't worry pal i've been debating all day with this fella.
Not sure why there's so much love for a man that ultimately wasted our budget last season and left us with an incredibly over sized squad, most of which is not capable of even the play offs.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Don't worry pal i've been debating all day with this fella.
Not sure why there's so much love for a man that ultimately wasted our budget last season and left us with an incredibly over sized squad, most of which is not capable of even the play offs.

Just as a matter of interest.
How many senior players (Over 20) do you think a club should have?
How many junior players (20 or under) do you think a club should have?
Or don’t you make any distinction between the two at all?

 

[Pedro Verde]

left us with an incredibly over sized squad, most of which is not capable of even the play offs.

Didnt we actually make the play offs with that squad

 

[Pierre's PC]

Didnt we actually make the play offs with that squad

You can't bring those here. Facts lol.

 

[Barney]

Didnt we actually make the play offs with that squad

We did last year, the next year is a different story. Everyone is a year older, most senior players will be slower and declining in ability, some more than others. Hence why most teams make signings to refresh the team and stop those problems occurring.

 

[blades78]

I think we will bring in 1 centre back. We put out 2 different sides last night and still had brayford, Kennedy, Harris, coutts, Flo, Flynn and Done missing.
We must be very close to breaking the FFP rules.

 

[Barney]

Just as a matter of interest.
How many senior players (Over 20) do you think a club should have?
How many junior players (20 or under) do you think a club should have?
Or don’t you make any distinction between the two at all?

I'd say around 18 senior with 4 junior in the squad. Struggling to see your point?

 

[Pedro Verde]

We did last year, the next year is a different story.

Well we might win the League then by your reasoning
Whats to say we wont make the play offs this season with that squad
Wigan apart I think L1 is a little weaker than last season

 

[BushBlade]

I think we will bring in 1 centre back. We put out 2 different sides last night and still had brayford, Kennedy, Harris, coutts, Flo, Flynn and Done missing.
We must be very close to breaking the FFP rules.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/the-benefactor-model-permitted-in-league-1-and-2

 

[Bladesway]

We did last year, the next year is a different story. Everyone is a year older, most senior players will be slower and declining in ability, some more than others. Hence why most teams make signings to refresh the team and stop those problems occurring.

What? At what point does this alarming decline take place and how many of these players do we have to worry about? Is our squad going from a team of midgets to a team of old men in one season?

Scoogs? Murph? Flynn? Mcnuts? Howard? Flynn? Diego? Beard? Done? Che? Wallace? Jose? At what point do these brittle old souls decline?

I would suggest its experience we need right now and why its leaders and captains rather than youth. But i would be happy for you to explain just what the hell you think we need.

 

[Barney]

What? At what point does this alarming decline take place and how many of these players do we have to worry about? Is our squad going from a team of midgets to a team of old men in one season?

Scoogs? Murph? Flynn? Mcnuts? Howard? Flynn? Diego? Beard? Done? Che? Wallace? Jose? At what point do these brittle old souls decline?

I would suggest its experience we need right now and why its leaders and captains rather than youth. But i would be happy for you to explain just what the hell you think we need.

That's the reason I said some more than others. Tbh fella I can't be bothered with your consistent disagreement. We understand, you disagree with me and my ideas, chill out FFS, and have a beer.

 

[super_pig]

2 weeks and 3 days to sign 2 centre backs and ideally a couple more at midfield and strike to strengthen.

half a team then?
we may not actually need anybody. my great uncle told me that the 8th army were a shambles until monty rocked up and they became a world class outfit.. same blokes. it's management.

 

[Bladesway]

Didnt we actually make the play offs with that squad

Yeah but it cost billions and they were all too short. You wouldnt believe it but we are light years away from promotion and need 23 new players to replace the utter rubbish Clough the serial killer/despot evil mismanager paid too much for.

 

[Bladesway]

That's the reason I said some more than others. Tbh fella I can't be bothered with your consistent disagreement. We understand, you disagree with me and my ideas, chill out FFS, and have a beer.

Oh apologies, some more than others. I named a full eleven of players ommitted from your thoughts? Just wanted to nail that down before i kicked back and chilled.

Laughter is a form of therapy and this pre season more than any has given me that opportunity. Thank you.