Huge, unforgiveable gaffe by McCabe re Walker sale

[boo radley]

Er no, selling Kyle Naughton for £5m was decent business.
Selling Walker for £3m, the right back who has gone on to actually play in the Prem this season, was not.
You don't need many brain cells to work that one out.
And that's before you even start on the 'season-long' loan deal, that wasn't.

He's that good he's going to the world cup - oh no he isn't Glen Johnson is, now many dont rate glen johnson what does that say about Mr walker? which other right backs are going to the world cup? Which other right backs are not going to the world cup who if squad players got injured would then be picked for the squad?
So a bit of realism here please, we lost games this season because of walker. yes we all know he has potential and possibly to be the best but a half built house doesn't stand proud as a home till complete and mature.He is not there yet it isnt his time.

 

[bladesman1889]

Er no, selling Kyle Naughton for £5m was decent business.
Selling Walker for £3m, the right back who has gone on to actually play in the Prem this season, was not.
You don't need many brain cells to work that one out.
And that's before you even start on the 'season-long' loan deal, that wasn't.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing. I'm sure you predicted Walker would be the one breaking into the Spurs team back then lenners...

 

[DuncDisorderly]

As has been said many times, ignore me.

I apologise for suggesting the 'wanker button' for your original post. It was mean and un-necessary to say it, and I am sorry that I went as far as typing it on here. We appear to be at different ends of the spectrum, and I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on most things Sheffield United, but I guess as long as we keep turning up and supporting the team, it doesn't matter...

 

[shorehamview]

Hindsight's a wonderful thing. I'm sure you predicted Walker would be the one breaking into the Spurs team back then lenners...

Lenners has got 20/20 hindsight, but his ability to see into the future is as good as his ability to talk with the animals or plait fog. Selling a player who had made a handful of appearances was good business. The loan recall clause was a cock-up.
Yes, he has gone on to play in the Premier League. Twice. Two whole matches. Since January. That's only two more than Zippy out of Rainbow, or Kylie Minogue.

 

[lenners]

Chaps, enjoying watching you claim that the Walker deal was a good one. If we hadn't already been getting £5m for Naughton, which you all chucklingly overlook, you'd have a point.
That was the good deal, selling Walker wasn't.
It was never anything to do with hindsight boys - it was clear at the time and stated at the time.

 

[secretchief]

We haven't got £5m for Naughton. As with Walker, much of the fee is tied up in appearances money.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Lenners has got 20/20 hindsight, but his ability to see into the future is as good as his ability to talk with the animals or plait fog. Selling a player who had made a handful of appearances was good business. The loan recall clause was a cock-up.
Yes, he has gone on to play in the Premier League. Twice. Two whole matches. Since January. That's only two more than Zippy out of Rainbow, or Kylie Minogue.

Not necessarily, it may have been the only way we could have got the deal done. Look at Billy to Donny, another deal that had conditions involved; sometimes these things allow the loan to happen.

We got more games out of Kyle than we didn't get out of him so a good deal overall.

 

[lenners]

We haven't got £5m for Naughton. As with Walker, much of the fee is tied up in appearances money.

Can't be arsed to dredge up the accounts but I'm pretty sure a figure of £8m for both is mentioned in there. Any amounts above that are likely to be linked to appearances.

 

[bladesman1889]

Chaps, enjoying watching you claim that the Walker deal was a good one. If we hadn't already been getting £5m for Naughton, which you all chucklingly overlook, you'd have a point.
That was the good deal, selling Walker wasn't.
It was never anything to do with hindsight boys - it was clear at the time and stated at the time.

I'm sure you knew at the time :lol:

 

[shorehamview]

As a purely footballing decision selling a player regarded as highly as Walker was not a great one. As a pure business proposition selling a player with only a handful of first team appearances for far more than his development costs was a sound one. The business man won out over the football manager - Blackwell has said that if it was solely up to him then both the Kyles would have stayed.
Lenners is getting confused again, but it must be hard when your only internet access in the care home is when the staff are changing the beds.
If it was solely down to football matters without the need to balance the books we'd be keeping our best players and buying other club's stars. As it stands then we'll continue to sell the likes of Naughton and Walker while other clubs buy the likes of Kaka and Ronaldo.

 

[gavtheblade]

i dont care what anyone says,my argument is that we cant keep hold of good players b coz we dont offer enuf wages.BEATTIE,HALFORD,WALKER,NAUGHTON,JAGIELKA,the list is endless.u get what you pay for,end of.If we are to do owt next season,we need to tie a few players down with contracts,cos if not,they`ll be gone cos we r a tight fisted fukin team.ward,cresswell and sharp are a base to build on.If anyone disagrees with this post then im pissed with u.ey up rich

 

[Sensiblade]

i dont care what anyone says,my argument is that we cant keep hold of good players b coz we dont offer enuf wages.BEATTIE,HALFORD,WALKER,NAUGHTON,JAGIELKA,the list is endless.u get what you pay for,end of.If we are to do owt next season,we need to tie a few players down with contracts,cos if not,they`ll be gone cos we r a tight fisted fukin team.ward,cresswell and sharp are a base to build on.If anyone disagrees with this post then im pissed with u.ey up rich

the possibility is though that everything could go wrong with big money high wage signings and we could end up like the pigs. And none of us want that, right?

 

[lenners]

As a purely footballing decision selling a player regarded as highly as Walker was not a great one. As a pure business proposition selling a player with only a handful of first team appearances for far more than his development costs was a sound one. The business man won out over the football manager - Blackwell has said that if it was solely up to him then both the Kyles would have stayed.
Lenners is getting confused again, but it must be hard when your only internet access in the care home is when the staff are changing the beds.
If it was solely down to football matters without the need to balance the books we'd be keeping our best players and buying other club's stars. As it stands then we'll continue to sell the likes of Naughton and Walker while other clubs buy the likes of Kaka and Ronaldo.

Nice try Shoreham but it wasn't a good footballing or financial decision - as was pointed out at the time.
The stupidity was underlined in January.
We've also lost 6,000/7,000 season ticket holders. If we'd had Walker throughout the season and scraped the play-offs, which was feasible, we would have retained a chunk of those season ticket holders and had higher crowds next season.
The £3m starts to pale straightaway.
That's before you even start to consider the damage selling off the homegrown stars does to the soul of the club and the alleged plan to develop our own players.
All we've done is develop two good players who will now play for other clubs for the rest of their careers and ended up using the funds to pay-off debts and the loan wages of Nosworthy, Connolly, Davies, Bartley etc, etc.

 

[Bramley]

World Exclusive: Good young championship players go to top premier league side in unprecedented move...has anyone called Reuters? we could have a front page here...

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Of course, in 18 months time we could be hailing Walker as the new Lee Morris!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I notice how no one is actually commenting on the fact that Walker wanted to leave to join Spurs. Its not just a case of the club saying no, Walker wanted to go so then you have the problem of keeping an unhappy player who is well aware that we have just stopped him earning nearly 5 times his existing salary.
It all seems very convenient to forget that the player and agent initiated this deal not the club.

Next season will be interesting when he is loaned out again and unfortunately for him he's unlikely to ever hold down a regular place at Spurs.
You guys have him as a future world beater he's only proved himself as a decent championship fullback and £3 Million still seems over the odds compared with comparable others in the league at this moment in time. I simply cannot see where you get £5 Million from, there is no way anyone would offer £5 Million to Spurs for him at the moment so your valuation is totally pie in the sky.

I said when we sold him that 3 years into his contract he will be surplus to requirements at Spurs and I still think that will be the case.

 

[alcoblade]

Not necessarily, it may have been the only way we could have got the deal done. Look at Billy to Donny, another deal that had conditions involved; sometimes these things allow the loan to happen.

We got more games out of Kyle than we didn't get out of him so a good deal overall.

Good point and one that is often missed. When people criticise the club for not putting in recall clauses, what if it wasn't possible? What if we could only loan him without that rule? I think the club would have been silly to lose the deal because they (spurs) might have recalled him.

UTB

 

[blades1889]

That’s united for you, if we were a team trying to get promoted surly we would keep on to players like naughton, walker... Not whilst McCabe is in charge, I also blamed partly on Blackwell for being a yes man.

 

[lenners]

Bob, a decent Championship full back is someone like Connolly.
And Walker was so unhappy he immediately returned to play for us.
It would have been easy to keep him with a proviso he could go the following year which is almost what happened in practical terms anyway.
The overall point though is not about his value to Spurs, it's about his value to us.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Len, you need to read the posts you are answering or does it make it easy just to make it up yourself?
Walker was happy to come back because he'd just got a massive pay boost (many times his previous salary) and was allowed to carry on at United.
I'm sure if we had offered to make him our top earner (or very close) and a 3 year deal he would of stayed but there is not way we could afford that.
As I posted you have to remember Walker via his agent setup and pushed for this deal (while he was discussing Naughton). Walker's head was turned by the contract, the security of that money for the length of the deal, signing for a Premiership club and all while staying for the season (as he thought) at United. It was a good deal for him, makes totally logical sense and he wanted it to happen.

The best he can hope for now is that he gets a loan to a lower half Premiership club in order to try and prove himself at that level, but I still think he isn't going to get a chance at Spurs and will be surplus to requirements by the end of the 2011/12 season.
Our best hope is to somehow get up into the Premiership and be in a position to take him back, but there is no way he is valued at £5 million currently. No one would offer Spurs £5 million for his services at the moment so that figure is totally bollocks.

 

[lenners]

Bob, you're still looking at it through the prism of his value to Spurs or Walker's alleged desire to leave as soon as.
SUFC is a business that does have control over what happens, particularly with contracted players.
When you start recognising that, you can see that the Walker deal was a poor one and will end up costing us more than £3m in declining performance on the pitch.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Bob, you're still looking at it through the prism of his value to Spurs or Walker's alleged desire to leave as soon as.
SUFC is a business that does have control over what happens, particularly with contracted players.
When you start recognising that, you can see that the Walker deal was a poor one and will end up costing us more than £3m in declining performance on the pitch.

You are saying that Walker being in the side would of automatically ensured a high league finish, that isn't quantifiable we only lost him for a few months.
You talk about the contract like we should of just told him to stay and that would be the end of it. That is naive and I'm pretty certainly you don't even believe it.
The player wanted to go, we couldn't keep him, I don't know what more you would have us do. We got £3 Million in and 20 games last season out of him.

 

[Zinedine]

So a young player with no Premier League experience who came through the ranks at a fairly average Championship club with 2 games under his belt would be worth £5million?!

Please get a grip, if we got the £10 million for the pair then we have the better end of the deal.

 

[lenners]

You are saying that Walker being in the side would of automatically ensured a high league finish, that isn't quantifiable we only lost him for a few months.
You talk about the contract like we should of just told him to stay and that would be the end of it. That is naive and I'm pretty certainly you don't even believe it.
The player wanted to go, we couldn't keep him, I don't know what more you would have us do. We got £3 Million in and 20 games last season out of him.

I think it's pretty obvious that losing Walker affected us badly but each to their own.
And no, I do not believe that any player can do whatever he likes at any time.
In this case, it would have been relatively simple to have said to him you're not going now but you'll be free to go at the end of the season if we're not in the Prem.
We'd probably done something similar with Kilgallon who ended up leaving in January instead of last summer.

 

[Robbie]

So a young player with no Premier League experience who came through the ranks at a fairly average Championship club with 2 games under his belt would be worth £5million?!.

Who played just under 2 games?

I see the £5 million valuation as perfectly plausible to be honest, some games at the back end of 08/09 season and possibly a full season of 09/10 season with the form he presented us, made this viable.

I believe Walker to be better than Naughton, we got £5 million for Naughton, why wouldn't we get it for Walker?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Who played just under 2 games?

I see the £5 million valuation as perfectly plausible to be honest, some games at the back end of 08/09 season and possibly a full season of 09/10 season with the form he presented us, made this viable.

I believe Walker to be better than Naughton, we got £5 million for Naughton, why wouldn't we get it for Walker?

Because one of the only teams to vastly over pay for young players (namely Spurs) won't be in for him.
They only wanted £3.5 Million for Bale in January and yet you think £5 million for Walker is reasonable? It's crazy.

 

[Zinedine]

Who played just under 2 games?

I see the £5 million valuation as perfectly plausible to be honest, some games at the back end of 08/09 season and possibly a full season of 09/10 season with the form he presented us, made this viable.

I believe Walker to be better than Naughton, we got £5 million for Naughton, why wouldn't we get it for Walker?

Kyle Walker played 2 league matches for United before the Play-Offs.
Kyle Naughton played 40 for United.

The fact you valued an extremely inexperienced player who plays for an average club at £5 million is daft. In what world would any club pay that for one player alone. The fact Tottenham payed £10 million for them both (but with Naughton being the better prospect) is unbelievable.

£5 million, lol.

 

[Robbie]

Because one of the only teams to vastly over pay for young players (namely Spurs) won't be in for him.
They only wanted £3.5 Million for Bale in January and yet you think £5 million for Walker is reasonable? It's crazy.

It's plausible is what I'm saying, not reasonable.

Kyle Walker played 2 league matches for United before the Play-Offs.
Kyle Naughton played 40 for United..

Is there any reason you're happy to include Naughtons appearances in the play offs, but not Walkers?

Just for reference, Walker made 7 appearances for the Blades before being sold, but his potential was clear to see.

The fact you valued an extremely inexperienced player who plays for an average club at £5 million is daft. In what world would any club pay that for one player alone. The fact Tottenham payed £10 million for them both (but with Naughton being the better prospect) is unbelievable..

You're really strengthening what I'm saying here, Spurs paid over the odds at the point for 2 players, £8 million rising to £10 million.

£3 million of this was for Walker. £5 million for Naughton.

If Walker had played another season (which he would have, had we not sold him) we could plausibly be looking for the same level of price that we sold Naughton for (£5 million).

Just for reference, Theo Walcott went to Arsenall for a possible £13 million when he left Southampton (granted it ended up being around £7.8 million because they took an early pay off) after only 21 appearances in the league, with 8 of them being substitute appearances.

£5 million, lol

Who would you say is the better player, Walker or Naughton?

 

[Worksop_Blade]

Is this thread still going?

I think the phrase "done to death" was invented for describing the debates about the Walker/Naughton sales.

 

[Zinedine]

It's plausible is what I'm saying, not reasonable.



Is there any reason you're happy to include Naughtons appearances in the play offs, but not Walkers?

Just for reference, Walker made 7 appearances for the Blades before being sold, but his potential was clear to see.



You're really strengthening what I'm saying here, Spurs paid over the odds at the point for 2 players, £8 million rising to £10 million.

£3 million of this was for Walker. £5 million for Naughton.

If Walker had played another season (which he would have, had we not sold him) we could plausibly be looking for the same level of price that we sold Naughton for (£5 million).

Just for reference, Theo Walcott went to Arsenall for a possible £13 million when he left Southampton (granted it ended up being around £7.8 million because they took an early pay off) after only 21 appearances in the league, with 8 of them being substitute appearances.



Who would you say is the better player, Walker or Naughton?

Counting the Play Offs Walker made 5 apps, Naughton made 40. That's 8 times as many appearences hence a higher price tag
Your right if we kept Walker for another season then he would have been worth more but he didn't so he didn't have match experience so your price tag of £5 million is completely daft given that after half a sucessful season at United and some appearences for Spurs he is still only rated 6.7 so not worth £5million