Howard or Long?

[sportinguista]

Long stood still as Hull Tigers scored today. Howard didn't concede. Therefore...er...

 

[metalblade]

At the time Matty Lowton turned 20, he had made a total of zero senior starts for us. When he turned 21, he had made two starts.

So what Lowton was never going to get a game in front of Kyle Walker, Kyle Naughton or even Derek Geary and Greg Halford who could play RB.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

So what Lowton was never going to get a game in front of Kyle Walker, Kyle Naughton or even Derek Geary and Greg Halford who could play RB.

I'm just pointing out that if we'd have applied your logic on your making-it-by-20 criteria, Lowton would probably have been released and we'd be £3 million poorer. Some players develop later – Lowton is a clear example of that.

 

[metalblade]

I'm just pointing out that if we'd have applied your logic on your making-it-by-20 criteria, Lowton would probably have been released and we'd be £3 million poorer. Some players develop later – Lowton is a clear example of that.

Can't agree I think we had 3-4 better options at the time which kept Lowton out of the team not his lack of development,

 

[Dalelane01]

George long has played about 30 first team games less than Howard in their careers. So that goes out the window.

Not mine it doesent leonardo but we all got differant opinions and i always respect this otherwise whats the point of having a forum all i can say is whoever plays as long as we win who cares. we all want best for blades this season even if it was long he would still get my full support

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Can't agree I think we had 3-4 better options at the time which kept Lowton out of the team not his lack of development,

Really? The season he debuted, Walker returned to Spurs in January. Here were the other right-backs used:

- Geary, 5 apps then career over
- Connolly (loan), signed late in the season and fairly rubbish
- France for a game or two, awful
- Nyron Nosworthy, replaced Walker

So which were the 3-4 players after Walker went back that kept Lowton out of the team from Jan-May?

 

[mosbolad]

Long on the other hand might improve but if a player hasn't made it by the time he is 20 well frankly he never will keeper or not, I don't get all this bollocks that keepers peak later than outfield players they play longer for the simple reason they don't need to run about.

Interesting but not true.

Players all mature at the same age it's just that mistakes made by keepers are not acceptable. Mistakes made by strikers pass without notice. Miss a couple of sitters, no problem as long as you bang one in the net. Midfielders fluff a pass or miscontrol a cross, no problem. Defenders, get it wrong, don't worry, the keeper can mop up. The keeper makes an error, he's shit, he needs dropping!

So they mature at exactly the same time it's just that keepers can't make mistakes.

I trust the judgement of NA. Whoever he goes with, that's good enough for me..

 

[mosbolad]

Theres some short memories on here ,before Howards injury he was by far the best keeper in the division ,he had performance and consistency ,something Long has never had and I doubt he ever will at this level.

Long is 21. He has had 106 first team appearances. At that age Howard had had 21 appearances mostly in Scotland. Howard is now 28 yet according to you Long is no good? Where is the logic behind this?

 

[JohnDenver]

If Long has matured at Motherwell then he's really not far behind Howard, who finished last season poorly.

To be honest, Howard wasn't the best keeper in the league at any stage. He was very good when he had Harry, Brayford, Collins and Harris in front of him during Clough's first season, but was latterly dragged down by the randomised defence of last season, and then injury problems.

Having not watched pre-season I'd go with Howard, but he has to improve.

 

[Swanseablade]

Alan Kelly

Has to be Howard.

Hate to be controversial but at present I don't think George is good enough

 

[sitwell]

Long is 21. He has had 106 first team appearances. At that age Howard had had 21 appearances mostly in Scotland. Howard is now 28 yet according to you Long is no good? Where is the logic behind this?

My logic comes from watching him play ,he has no presence which a major asset for a keeper ,he has made a few good one on one saves but that's it. He worries defenders doesn't command his box and for me has too many weaknesses to become a good keeper. Sorry for labouring the point but watch Hulls goal today ,I know he had no chance of saving it ,but hes like a fucking mute ,no call to the defender ,no communication , if he cant do that after 100 games he never will.

 

[Liaminho9]

This really does seem to be one of the biggest crowd splitters between fans!

I'll through in my thoughts... Long for me. From what i have seen from pre season, only once have i seen a doubt over Long. Against Newcastle the ball came into his box and he backed off, so Collins rush clearing it, then had a go and Long. However, Long didn't cower away from the situation like previous... He had a go back at Collins. He's grown up and i think he is a better shot stopper than Howard.

 

[metalblade]

Really? The season he debuted, Walker returned to Spurs in January. Here were the other right-backs used:

- Geary, 5 apps then career over
- Connolly (loan), signed late in the season and fairly rubbish
- France for a game or two, awful
- Nyron Nosworthy, replaced Walker

So which were the 3-4 players after Walker went back that kept Lowton out of the team from Jan-May?

The season before Lowton made his debut we had Kyle Naughton playing regular, back up in Kyle Walker, Geary and Halford so not much chance of 1st team football for Lowton. 2009 both Kyles had gone to Spurs but we had on loan for the season Kyle Walker who turned out to be better than Naughton, so much so that at the end on the JTW Spurs recalled him but by this time Matt Lowton was already in Hungary playing for Ferencvaros on loan. This left us in a bit of trouble for the rest of the season but when Lowton returned he made his debut just before the season ended so he was good enough. Would you have put him in the team in preference to a future England right back or even Kyle Naughton ? All I'm saying is United at the time had loads of better options at right back Lowton would have debuted much sooner anywhere else. So there we are that season after January we had nobody to keep Lowton out of the team but Lowton wasn't even in the country, pity we didn't recall him from his loan like Spurs did with Walker and that was to go elsewhere and away from semi-pro.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Now pre season is over who would you choose to be in goal for us this season?

Not seen any pre-season but based on last season we had someone who couldn't stop daisy cutters and threw points away on a regular basis against someone making motm performances for Motherwell in BOTH play off games.

Long all the way.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

So there we are that season after January we had nobody to keep Lowton out of the team but Lowton wasn't even in the country

We recalled Ashmore and Wedgbury from Fradi due to fairly trivial squad injuries, but didn't bring Lowton back when Walker returned. In fact Wedgbury, based on reports at the time, had been the better performer (I'm guessing Fradi fan KyoPityus no longer posts on here). The fact that Wedgbury dropped down the leagues, whereas Lowton (same age as Wedgbury) headed up them, suggests that Lowton was a late-developer. You seem to suggest that throwing him into the first team earlier would have propelled his development. I think doing that too early, before they're ready for it, can potentially hinder it.

 

[Pinchy]

Good old Local George. He had two good games for Motherwell so he's left all his glaringly obvious faults behind him.

There's Bladey Bladeness all over this. My favourite is that we should choose him because he's an "unknown quantity". Yes, that's certainly the way to choose a goalkeeper. I think it's known as the "Lee Baxter" theory...

 

[Guesty]

Good old Local George. He had two good games for Motherwell so he's left all his glaringly obvious faults behind him.

There's Bladey Bladeness all over this. My favourite is that we should choose him because he's an "unknown quantity". Yes, that's certainly the way to choose a goalkeeper. I think it's known as the "Lee Baxter" theory...

On the other hand we know Howard's weaknesses. The amount of shots from distance that beat him was staggering. A free kick on the edge of the area may as well have been immediately marked as a goal to the opposition (especially if the opposition was Paul Gallagher). Don't get me wrong, I'm no huge fan of Long either but to suggest Howard has the spot locked down is either a) way off the mark or b) a very worrying sign.

 

[Harry's Game]

Yes, it is. It cost us a lot of points last season.

You said "any and every shot from outside the box" That is not true is it?

 

[Pinchy]

On the other hand we know Howard's weaknesses. The amount of shots from distance that beat him was staggering. A free kick on the edge of the area may as well have been immediately marked as a goal to the opposition (especially if the opposition was Paul Gallagher). Don't get me wrong, I'm no huge fan of Long either but to suggest Howard has the spot locked down is either a) way off the mark or b) a very worrying sign.

Those weaknesses really manifested themselves when he was labouring under a back injury; not good for a goalie. That's the worry - bad backs tend not to go away. If he's fully fit he's a competent keeper, though not outstanding. George Long has yet to convince me of even that and I'm afraid that, unlike some on here, dropping vital points for the sake of "developing" youngsters doesn't appeal...

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Now pre season is over who would you choose to be in goal for us this season?

Should have added a futher tick / press button box below Mark Howard , George Long

Competent other / alternative goalkeeper , as many would choose neither the above IMO .

UTB

 

[mosbolad]

Sorry for labouring the point but watch Hulls goal today ,I know he had no chance of saving it ,but hes like a fucking mute ,no call to the defender ,no communication ,

Do you mean that 'away. away' call to the defender McFadzean. The call that is clearly audible on the video?

A cracking finish from Hernandez by the way.



NA sees them day in day out. I trust his judgement to make the right decision either Howard, Long or someone else if he deems neither good enough. But don't just make up nonsense to rubbish a player.

 

[Barney]

It's weird that not many have actually acknowledged the tremendous skill and composure that was shown by Hernandez when he took the ball on. The way he nodded it into his own path from a lob was a staggering show of ability.

It's just one of those things, Hernandez is a top notch player with great skill and things like that happen when you play against those sorts of players. I'd be quite certain you wouldn't find any league one player finish with such finesse and ability at the lane or anywhere for that matter.

There was absolutely nothing Long could do about that goal.

 

[sheff_blade90]

Even though admittedly howars has improved alot since that dreadful display v Rotherham in 1 of weirs final games where couldn't catch a cold. I would go with long hes got great potential still even though he been at utd ages hid problem last time was that after a long run of games his performance tailed off but that should be sorted after his loan spell at Motherwell

 

[Jehovah]

Do you mean that 'away. away' call to the defender McFadzean. The call that is clearly audible on the video?

A cracking finish from Hernandez by the way.



NA sees them day in day out. I trust his judgement to make the right decision either Howard, Long or someone else if he deems neither good enough. But don't just make up nonsense to rubbish a player.

How do you know who shouted that?

 

[sitwell]

and even if he did without his lips moving ,what use is away away ? He needed help from his keeper ,be honest if you were a defender would he inspire you ?

 

[mosbolad]

How do you know who shouted that?

Lol....Have you even been this pre-season (or any season for that)? That's what keepers shout when they want the defender to get the ball away.

Thinking about it, you are probably right, it will have been a spectator throwing his voice! or maybe the ref wanting Mcfadzean to get the ball away.

Perhaps it was god Jehovah captured on the GoPro willing the ball away.

 

[Jehovah]

Lol....Have you even been this pre-season (or any season for that)? That's what keepers shout when they want the defender to get the ball away.

Thinking about it, you are probably right, it will have been a spectator throwing his voice! or maybe the ref wanting Mcfadzean to get the ball away.

Perhaps it was god Jehovah captured on the GoPro willing the ball away.

So, you dont know. You're presuming it was Long. Have I ever been any season? Yes and I have never seen Long open his mouth.

 

[mosbolad]

I know he had no chance of saving it

and even if he did without his lips moving ,what use is away away ? He needed help from his keeper ,be honest if you were a defender would he inspire you ?

You may as well have gone on to say :-

'so even though I am wrong and he had no chance of saving it, and even though he did shout ( but didn't move his lips mind you ) what use is it anyway as he is rubbish'.

Don't let facts and your own comments stand in your way!.....

 

[mosbolad]

So, you dont know. You're presuming it was Long. Have I ever been any season? Yes and I have never seen Long open his mouth.

Oh dear, must have been divine intervention after all!

 

[Jehovah]

Oh dear, must have been divine intervention after all!

Well either that or one of our defenders as unbelievable as that is.