How much debt are we in

[cahill]

curious like

 

[Rustyblade]

curious like

Think of the last time McCabe came on Radio Sheffield with words such as "well run", "we", "model for other clubs", "we", "substantial", "we", "youngsters", "we", "future", "we", "revenue streams" and "academies". Count the months, multiply by the number you first thought of and you still won't be close.

Fact is, we've been had. Done over. Our pants are down.

 

[bottletree]

48 million quid. But don't worry its a soft loan??????HA HA HA HA. Its also been called like having a mortgage HA HA HA.

 

[bartman]

Think of the last time McCabe came on Radio Sheffield with words such as "well run", "we", "model for other clubs", "we", "substantial", "we", "youngsters", "we", "future", "we", "revenue streams" and "academies". Count the months, multiply by the number you first thought of and you still won't be close.

Fact is, we've been had. Done over. Our pants are down.

I'll bite...how do you work that one out then ?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Anyone seen my........................

 

[beightonblade]

Anyone seen my........................

Is that a pig ?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

It is, a rather lovely and cute one but a pig none the less.

 

[Rustyblade]

I'll bite...how do you work that one out then ?

Okay. We've been here before but what the hell.

I work it out on the simple calculation that, as the amount of our debt came as a complete surprise to almost all of us and, as a fair proportion of us also actually had faith in what McCabe was saying, we have indeed been conned. Taken for a ride. We were told we are a model for other clubs to follow whereas the reality is that we are deeper in the shit than most. Everything that we were told would assist SUFC in whatever way, financially or football related has proved to be a drain on the club. ALL our other interests are costing us money.

Our pants have been pulled down by the sale of anyone who might actually a) be worth watching b) be someone who the fans could possibly give a shit about or c) help us get out of this division. And STILL it isn't enough. If you think it's bad now, wait for the further cutbacks next season when anybody on anything more than a couple of quid and a packet of salted puffed wheat fucking cheesy snacks will be cleared out to make way for what? We have assumed the position and are about to be shafted by a team made up almost entirely of loans and not quite good enoughs. In short. We're fucked.

Sorry. I don't have a piggy to hand. Will a fish do?

:fishy:

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

So long and thanks for all the fish.

While we are floating questions that have been covered a million time before has the hotel posted a full years accounts yet? Just interested before we write it off as a massive waste of money. I mean most business' of a similar nature are given at least 5 years to turn a decent profit and we've written it off without even seeing the first years figures.

 

[Rustyblade]

As far as I know, there was a loss on the first year. Would have been surprising if there hadn't been.

I do however, think that the hotel, what with our agreement with Copthorne and the numbers involved, is the least of our worries right now.

And when it does eventually turn a profit. How many players do you think it'll pay for? In the whole scheme of things, it's chickenfeed.

 

[alcoblade]

So long and thanks for all the fish.

While we are floating questions that have been covered a million time before has the hotel posted a full years accounts yet? Just interested before we write it off as a massive waste of money. I mean most business' of a similar nature are given at least 5 years to turn a decent profit and we've written it off without even seeing the first years figures.

I don't think people are writing the hotel off Bob - I think most would acknowledge that it will probably be good for us long term - but the moans are part of a wider picture - we were sold a dream of a model club whose income would come from various sources, thereby protecting us from any downturn. Then what happens? We publish a set of accounts where the ONLY part of the business turning a profit is the club itself - after selling it's best players. Oh, and just to compound it, we tuck away a £50M debt but hope people miss it, and our chairman who's previously basked in the limelight makes appearances that are rarer than rocking horse shit. It's "just a little" disappointing.

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

As far as I know, there was a loss on the first year. Would have been surprising if there hadn't been.

I do however, think that the hotel, what with our agreement with Copthorne and the numbers involved, is the least of our worries right now.

Really I only thought it opened a year ago don't suppose you can post any figures or anything.

 

[Rustyblade]

Really I only thought it opened a year ago don't suppose you can post any figures or anything.

No you're right. I can't.

But a little thought experiment might just help.

Income for first year (over or not) minus cost to build equals a loss in anybody's money.

This is a long term investment which will give us a fixed yearly income, if I remember right. It won't break even for us for a while yet. And even when it does, it ain't gonna be enough to bankroll a Beattie type signing. A Beattie mark 1, that is.

 

[alcoblade]

Income for first year (over or not) minus cost to build equals a loss in anybody's money.

Not quite how it works fella. From memory, ish.....;

If we build a hotel for £10M then we have a debt of £10M, assuming we lend the money, and an asset of £10M. No loss there.

At the end of year 1, we have lost the interest on the loan, the set depreciation on the building, and the cost of running the hotel (wages, food etc). We've gained the income from customers paying for their room.

We make or lose depending on one being bigger or smaller than the other. Don't confuse cash in the bank (very important though) with profit and loss.

UTB

 

[Rustyblade]

Yes, I get all that.

But to take your hypothetical situation. If we buy a hotel for 10 million. All of what you say above is true but unfortunately, what you can't do is lop off a couple of storeys to buy a box to box midfielder.

What I should have said perhaps is that the 10 mill or whatever is lost to the club in that it cannot be used to either buy players or contribute to the wage bill unless we sell it.

I guess as an asset it's better than a house in that it can be used for more than security on loans and will actually earn money but the base problem still remains. You can only realise its value by selling it. Can't you? Unless it can slip on a pair of boots and slip seamlessly into the back four.

 

[Gibbo89]

"But to take your hypothetical situation. If we buy a hotel for 10 million. All of what you say above is true but unfortunately, what you can't do is lop off a couple of storeys to buy a box to box midfielder."

Very true but the 10 million was borrowed to build a revenue earning asset which could if necessary always be sold to repay the debt. In the current climate try borrowing 10 million to buy a box to box midfielder and they would laugh at you.

Of course we could have just pretended we were going to build the hotel and gone ahead and bought the player instead ;-)

 

[beightonblade]

not half as much as Clown Brown has got the UK into !

 

[alcoblade]

"But to take your hypothetical situation. If we buy a hotel for 10 million. All of what you say above is true but unfortunately, what you can't do is lop off a couple of storeys to buy a box to box midfielder."

Very true but the 10 million was borrowed to build a revenue earning asset which could if necessary always be sold to repay the debt. In the current climate try borrowing 10 million to buy a box to box midfielder and they would laugh at you.

Of course we could have just pretended we were going to build the hotel and gone ahead and bought the player instead ;-)

That's the point that needs reinforcing. We couldn't have borrowed the money to spend on players. That bit isn't really questionable. But, the "£5M" per year in interest payments - that needs finding from somewhere. If the hotel and other "assets" don't make money, it has to come from somewhere. Bye Kyle.....

UTB

 

[ghandi]

"But to take your hypothetical situation. If we buy a hotel for 10 million. All of what you say above is true but unfortunately, what you can't do is lop off a couple of storeys to buy a box to box midfielder."

Very true but the 10 million was borrowed to build a revenue earning asset which could if necessary always be sold to repay the debt. In the current climate try borrowing 10 million to buy a box to box midfielder and they would laugh at you.

Of course we could have just pretended we were going to build the hotel and gone ahead and bought the player instead ;-)

The hotel is only revenue earning in the sense that Copthorne pay us for leasing the hotel (the theory being we use this to pay the "mortgage") and any operting profit/loss belong's to Copthorne. The profit elements comes to us when the mortgage is paid off.

 

[lenners]

We're in loads of debt.
We sold an England U-21 international who made his debut for the 4th placed team in the Premiership yesterday for £3m.
It is not surprising we are in loads of debt.
We have a hierarchy that's great at building everything apart from an actual football team.

 

[broomhillblade]

Not quite how it works fella. From memory, ish.....;

If we build a hotel for £10M then we have a debt of £10M, assuming we lend the money, and an asset of £10M. No loss there.

UTB

At the risk of being pedantic, 'we' didn't lend anything. We borrowed £10m.

Nothing personal - football clubs do it all the time, saying they have loaned a player when they mean they have borrowed one.

 

[alcoblade]

At the risk of being pedantic, 'we' didn't lend anything. We borrowed £10m.

Nothing personal - football clubs do it all the time, saying they have loaned a player when they mean they have borrowed one.

Acutally, I just cringed at my typo before I read your post. You were being pedantic though.....

UTB