How do you stop Growing Crowd Disorder

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steve26272 said:
Honestly mate don’t think you can

The Wembley thing is fine if there’s room but it needs planning at design stage - we wouldn’t have room for it at John St or BL

Fact is if you put 30000 people in an emotionally charged environment, pissed up, probably coke’d up with access to the opposition’s players the day was always coming

That full weight cunt will loose his job and hopefully bump into a couple of Blades in the nick

But next year there will be another oxygen thief smashed off his tits and it will happen again

Grealish got twatted a couple of years ago, and that was on the pitch as the game was been played

There are some fuckin idiots in this world, personally I would castrate them so they can’t create another generation of scum, but thats probably a step too far
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Thats the root of it isn't it, booze, drugs, people not able to properly express their feelings / mental health and all of it coming out at the one place they have where they can express it. Not to mention social media, every cunt on the pitch last night had their phone in their hand videoing themselves. That's my take. It's still a side-effect of the pandemic, it will take something happening like Hillsborough again for any change to happen. What's the change? Alcohol bans? Drug testing (not sure you can for 30000+ people) Who knows? I don't.
 
sheff_blade90 said:
as the title said How do you stop Crowd Disorder, because everyone who been to an away game this season or watched football in the last 2 weeks could see this billy sharp incident coming a mile off. we already had a Leicester fan arrested & jailed for 4 months at city ground in march. we arent going towards the bad old days we are in the bad old days right now

for me the stewarding & policing at some grounds that ive seen in person & on social media has left a lot to be desired, which hasn't helped, it ended up completely lawless. you only have to look at Huddersfield who were just as bad as forest, they were all just watching it happening but doing absolutely nothing while a luton player was getting slapped & abused while trying to applaud the away end beside the goal.

what can be done or what will be done, because of course metal barriers are a no go for obvious reasons. as i can only think of putting netting around the stadiums or the wembley style barriers. because something needs to be done, before things are too late & we are talking about a monica seles style attack at the french open

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Electrified fences and ID cards.
 
robbiez666 said:
You're then banning for life hundreds of people who run on the pitch at the end of a season. Bit harsh. It should be mandatory to provide an ID for a ticket everywhere..
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Sorry Robbie. If don't come on then they don't harm any players. Meets and greets are designed to engage with fans as is social media.

Running on to the pitch is not up for debate.
 
Stop allowing away fans
 
Maidenhead said:
As I'm someone that travels away on a regular basis, do you really expect me to believe that? 🤣 🤣 🤣

Also, how many Forest players were deliberately "inciting" the crowd "before they scored"?
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Johnson shouting 'fuck off' to our fans goes beyond banter and unnecessary imho considering it was early in the game and he'd no abuse whatsoever
 
Flawed said:
People need to tell their kids that if they're going to do drugs, they shouldn't mix cocaine and alcohol. That combination is a disaster waiting to happen. I've seen pretty chilled out people suddenly turn into the incredible hulk.

Prison if full of regretful people who did something dumb after mixing charlie and booze. 🤷‍♂️

Trust me: it is a significant factor in the amount of trouble we're seeing.
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Legalise ecstasy so everybody is happy! 🤣
 
Mousseblade said:
Sorry Robbie. If don't come on then they don't harm any players. Meets and greets are designed to engage with fans as is social media.

Running on to the pitch is not up for debate.
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Pretty sure if you tried to ban 500 season ticket holders it would be.
 
I'm sure I noticed at the weekend during the Celtic title celebrations that the stewards were very robust in dealing with anyone who entered the playing area. During interviews on the pitch you could clearly see stewards in the background scuffing and tackling people who had encroached before dragging them away. That set the tone for a reasonably fan free pitch
 
Anyone who invades the pitch is chased around by Gary Sinclair on a chariot pulled by Kevin Gage and Asaba whilst he wields a Cat-o-nine tails at the hooligans.
 



Davalon said:
Johnson shouting 'fuck off' to our fans goes beyond banter and unnecessary imho considering it was early in the game and he'd no abuse whatsoever
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And of course none of our fans had given him any grief whatsoever just because he scored in both legs.
 
SellyOakBlade said:
Couldn't disagree more.

The basic reality is currently that if you get a bit excited about a goal and run on the pitch individually you are likely to get a banning order and fine.

Whereas if you are part of a larger pitch invasion - something that presents a much greater risk of serious issues (goading of away fans, danger to players/officials) due to the number of people involved you basically get away with it.

That seems...backwards...
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Having seen the stuff around Mcburnie now, with things not as clear cut, you're probably right. Players should never be in a position where they fear for their safety or have to potentially defend themselves.
 
Instead of the old perimeter fencing netting should be brought in to stop people running onto the pitch
 
Peezablade said:
Stopping the reasons for disorder would be a good start. Wankers like Vardy and that twat last night stood in front of opposition fans with hands cupped behind their ears just gets all the wrong (or the right) emotions high.
It was in that same corner that we had last night that the Leicester fan tried to punch a Forest player. I understand why now.
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I agree, how many players do you see now that go jumping straight into their own supporters after scoring as well, that also encourages fan encroachment
 
tenor.gif
 
Just a simple fine would do. Make photos a mandatory part of buying a ticket then when the twats are identified from plod and or tv cameras send a 10k fine through the post!
 
I think that some sort of barrier needs to be brought back, given that stewards are normally part time minimum wage types who don't want to go toe to toe with some knuckle daggers, and very few people seem to be prosecuted. I've seen gates that can be opened automatically in a crisis.
 
www.thetimes.co.uk

Football fans caught using cocaine face five-year ban

People convicted of using cocaine at football matches could face a five-year ban and be forced to surrender their passports when their team is playing abroad, t
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk

People convicted of using cocaine at football matches could face a five-year ban and be forced to surrender their passports when their team is playing abroad, the policing minister has said.

Under the proposals brought in by the Home Office, those caught supplying or in possession of class A drugs in connection with football will also be banned.

The FA, Premier League and the Football League have expressed support for a ban, after Class A drug use was identified as a key factor in the rise in violence and disorder in football.

The proposal comes after some England fans were filmed openly snorting white powder at Wembley before last year’s European Championship final, when large numbers of ticketless people forced their way into the stadium.
A special report by The Times in February, when we accompanied the police on an operation targeted at football supporters attending matches in Nottingham, uncovered drug use, the carrying of illegal flares and vandalism of trains.
Commenting on the measures, Boris Johnson said: “Middle-class cokeheads should stop kidding themselves, their habit is feeding a war on our streets, driving misery and crime across our country and beyond.

“That’s why we are stepping up our efforts to make sure those who break the law face the full consequences — because taking illegal drugs is never a victimless crime.”

Kit Malthouse, the policing minister, said: “More and more the police are finding Class A drugs at the heart of that disorder and so we must act. The football family wants every ground to be a safe space for fans, especially children, and so do we.”
Earlier this year, Mark Roberts, the chief constable of Cheshire, who is in charge of the UK’s football policing, said cocaine use at matches was one of the factors behind a surge in crowd trouble.

Before the Carabao Cup final in February police took swabs on trains going to London. Traces of cocaine were found on every train that was checked.

Football banning orders are imposed by a court and must be made with the clear intention of preventing the individual’s involvement in violence, disorder or harm, the Home Office said. At present they can only be imposed on people convicted of violence, disorder and racist or homophobic chanting and, after a recent change, online hate offences.

The changes are expected to be introduced during the next football season.
 
www.thetimes.co.uk

Football violence: Cocaine and kids as young as 12 – the new face of hooliganism

A traumatised train manager stands on the platform of Nottingham Station, shaking. She has endured nearly two hours of hell dealing with Grimsby Town fans, and
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk

A traumatised train manager stands on the platform of Nottingham Station, shaking. She has endured nearly two hours of hell dealing with Grimsby Town fans, and needs to be comforted by East Midlands Railway staff.

Passengers, caught up in the chaos on the 10.39 from Grimsby last Saturday, get off their trashed train dazed and distressed.“That was disgusting,” says one woman, who because of these hooligans must now wait for the next service to complete her journey.

Carriages are littered with broken glass, bottles of urine, discarded beer cans and bottles. And there are empty sachets that had contained Class A drugs. Football fans, alerted by those travelling on an earlier train that the police were conducting searches with sniffer dogs, had wolfed down the drugs before pulling into the station.

Fans on that first train — arriving four and a half hours before the game against Notts County — had no such warnings. They were surprised by police dogs Bella, Dudley and Oakley, who were on duty as part of Operation Wolfgang — an exercise in gathering further evidence of the link between cocaine and football-related violence.

Some travelling supporters, suspected of being in possession of drugs, were led away by officers. Others ditched what they had before passing through the police checkpoint. By the time some 400 rowdy fans had ventured towards the city centre, many of them already intoxicated and some heading for the local Hooters restaurant, platform seven was peppered with sachets of white powder and flares. In all, eight plastic drug bags were recovered, one of which contained a significant amount of white powder, along with nine smoke bombs.

These flares are illegal because they are extremely dangerous. A Blackpool fan lost two fingers and a thumb when he picked up one that had been thrown towards some nearby children.

Last weekend in Nottingham will be remembered for the shocking moment a Leicester City supporter ran onto the pitch and assaulted Nottingham Forest players celebrating their third goal. Cameron Toner, 19, has been charged with “three counts of common assault and going onto a playing area at a football match” and is due to appear at Nottingham Magistrates’ Court on February 24.

But for officers on duty in Nottingham it was only one of many football-related incidents across another weekend that shamed the national game.

Statistics released by the UK Football Policing Unit (UKFPU) last month highlighted a dramatic escalation in violence and disorder at and around matches. Arrests are up by 47 per cent, with the Football League and the National League seeing a rise of more than 50 per cent in reported incidents. Of particular concern is the connection between the abuse of class A drugs such as cocaine and violence, an issue that was cited by Baroness Casey in her report on the disorder that marred last summer’s European Championship final at Wembley. Mark Roberts, the chief constable for Cheshire and the head of football policing in the UK, told The Times last week that he fears a return to the dark days of the 1970s and 1980s if more is not done to tackle a growing problem.

The Times asked the UKFPU if we could spend a weekend with their officers, to see from their perspective exactly what they are dealing with.

Stuart Dickerson and Wayne Mitchell, the two national dedicated football police officers who are based at UKFPU headquarters in Croydon, attend matches up and down the country. They invited us to Nottingham, where they had two games to police: Notts County’s National League encounter with Grimsby on the Saturday and that FA Cup tie between Forest and Leicester on the Sunday — a first meeting between the two East Midlands sides since 2014. Some 2,500 Grimsby fans were expected at Meadow Lane, with Leicester due to bring more than 4,000 to the City Ground.

In terms of our access, very little was off limits. We attended morning planning meetings when officers shared information on what they call the “risk groups” and known hooligans — “faces”— who are members of some long-established “firms”. These include the “Forest Executive Crew” and Leicester’s “Baby Squad”, a firm which was formed in 1981 and has men as old as 60 in its ranks.
On Sunday, squads of officers were deployed to hunt down these gangs having received intelligence in advance that the rival firms were planning to renew hostilities.

The dedicated football officers joined British Transport Police (BTP) as trains arrived from Leicester. Kick-off was at 4pm and they expected to see large numbers of Leicester fans arriving from 11.23am, in time for bars opening at 11.30am. On the first train ordinary passengers complain of a deeply unpleasant journey, even if officers note the absence of known “faces” among a boisterous, boozy crowd.

The hooligan element must have used other forms of transport to access the city, which was confirmed as reports came over police radio of fighting at the Fat Cat pub in the city centre. We moved quickly with officers to the station entrance and piled into a police van, which was soon racing, siren blaring, across town. There were male and female officers in the van. Were they at all nervous? “It’s the job,” said a female officer.

The scene at the Fat Cat was appalling: while families sat inside trying to enjoy their Sunday lunch, Leicester City fans smashed windows using chairs and tables. The pub had been chosen as a venue for a clash of rival fans. No matter that no Forest fans were inside. They attacked the pub anyway.

Fighting broke out outside the pub, with members of the “Baby Squad” among a 100-strong menacing group of Leicester fans being contained by the police. Dog units and mounted police officers were deployed as they were moved back towards the train station and the City Ground beyond. Officers had to hold back a group of Forest thugs while the Leicester fans passed, snarling German Shepherds proving an effective deterrent.

Police formed a funnel to check, one by one, whether these Leicester fans had tickets for the game. Around 25 per cent of them were ticketless, with the police issuing Section 35 dispersal orders forcing them to return immediately to Leicester. One was found to be in possession of knuckle-dusters. Another was sporting a rather nasty bite mark on his side.

It was shortly after 2pm, almost two hours before kick-off, and the police moved the remaining fans up to the ground, which was due to open its gates at 2.30pm.

By the time we arrived at the City Ground, reports had come in of a further disturbance. This time it was outside the Cross Keys pub in Byard Lane, with men fighting and throwing bottles and street furniture. More windows were smashed, more arrests were made.

The dedicated football officers (DFOs) for Leicester and Forest, known to many of the fans simply as Dave and Simon, were welcomed by the majority of fans, appreciative of the community policing they do in the face of rising football violence. Some fans greeted these officers with affection. Of course for those intent on causing trouble, they are rather less popular.

Back at Nottingham Station on Saturday lunch-time and the police are capturing on video camera evidence of the trashed train. Seven empty plastic drug bags were recovered as rail staff organised for the train to be taken to the sidings for cleaning. “It’s simply not safe for the service to continue,” says PC Mitchell, who also notes that some of the seats are soaked in urine.

The age of the fans causing the disruption and damage was striking: some looked as young as 12, many of them no older than 14 or 15, and the majority appeared to be drunk.

They dressed and behaved exactly like the older men, wearing a uniform of designer clothing. CP Company hats with their distinctive goggles retail at about £100, as do the Aquascutum scarves. Stone Island jumpers can cost as much as £400, sometimes more, while their adidas Gazelle trainers are upwards of £60.

Police are concerned by this development. At Bolton the previous weekend, officers were abused by a 12-year-old, while at Derby an officer was punched in the face by a 14-year-old boy.

“The change that we are seeing, and I also hear this from other forces across the country, is that there is a new generation of what we call risk supporters coming through,” Inspector Craig Berry tells The Times. “They become involved with older lads and adults. They seem to feel they are part of something, this sub-culture we see in football.

“Some of the issues that are on the rise we probably started to see before Covid but since coming out of lockdown we’ve really started to notice groups of young lads — kids as young as 14 and 15 as well as older teenagers — who are coming into football risk groups.

“At the recent Forest-Derby match we saw incredibly young lads that were very aggressive, particularly those standing on the segregation lines inside the ground. It’s not necessarily what people would expect risk groups in football to look like. Already at 15 or 16 they are taking up a lot of our time. But five or ten years from now they are going to be a real problem.

“There’s a safeguarding and vulnerability issue here. After all, we are talking about children, and in some cases we are talking about grooming — in the same way youngsters get groomed into organised crime gangs.”

At Meadow Lane on Saturday a 14-year-old was interviewed on suspicion of throwing a flare onto the pitch. Simon Travell, a DFO, planned to review the CCTV and then visit the boy with his parents.

“We have something called Operation Barclay, which is looking at this particular issue,” says PC Travell, who explains that in some cases the older men in these risk groups will ask young lads to carry their Class A drugs in a bid to avoid detection. “Sometimes the parents have no idea their lads are going away to football, to a different city in a different part of the country. We will visit certain lads with their mums and dads and point out their behaviour, and the company they are keeping. It can prove very effective.”

Before taking on his national role, PC Dickerson was the DFO for Portsmouth. On one occasion he invited 35 lads to the ground with their parents. For the majority it proved an important intervention. “I’ve had emails from parents telling me how their son has just started university, or joined the army etc,” says PC Dickerson, who also saved the life of an England fan attacked by Russian thugs in Marseille at Euro 2016. “It’s good to hear that sort of thing.”

While there were no pitch invasions at Meadow Lane, Grimsby fans did announce their intention to storm the field if their team scored the winner from a late free kick. When they did they attempted to do just that, wrestling with stewards in an area occupied by now terrified disabled spectators. One female steward was led past us by St John Ambulance staff nursing a broken nose.

In the control room, officers were now liaising with East Midlands Railway to get visiting fans safely back to Grimsby. At the expense of the rail operator a “special train” with extra carriages was organised, with BTP officers called in from across the Midlands to travel with the Grimsby fans and provide protection for rail staff as well as members of the public. Additionally, a fleet of buses was laid on, also at the expense of a rail operator motivated by a desire to protect its workforce and customers.

Even then, there were problems. The fans did not allow passengers already on the train to get off at Nottingham. By the time a mother with her son and daughter had managed to escape, the children were in tears.

“The majority of football fans are great,” said Inspector Berry. “But what we are doing here is about public safety, and actually at the request of the silent majority — decent hardworking people who go to football to support their clubs, families who take their kids. If we don’t do something about this now, football will become more and more appealing to the wrong kind of people.”
 
Rochdaleblade said:
I think that some sort of barrier needs to be brought back, given that stewards are normally part time minimum wage types who don't want to go toe to toe with some knuckle daggers, and very few people seem to be prosecuted. I've seen gates that can be opened automatically in a crisis.
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We definitely don't need barriers, it ends up just being a case of making it more difficult and not impossible and to some that becomes a challenge

We need to punish fans and the club directly and sadly the best way to do this is by punishing the majority for the behaviour of the minority and hit the clubs financially with reduced attendances (and therefore reduced revenues).

And if there are stands closed or games behind closed doors, these games are then pulled from Sky TV and iFollow etc. Basically, play nice or you don't get to enjoy your team
 



Moats surrounding the field of plays, players can only access via drawbridge.
Moat full of hungry crocs that haven't been fed since the last home game when a couple of coked up twats fell in.
 
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