Honest discussion about the atmosphere

[Nick Jansky]

I suppose it could be an opinion that we'd be best off playing Cannon in net and Cooper on the wing, it's just obviously stupid.

We didn’t get promoted, which was the target for this season, so it obviously didn’t work. You’re, once again, making yourself look stupid.

 

[AWetFlannel]

We didn’t get promoted, which was the target for this season, so it obviously didn’t work. You’re, once again, making yourself look stupid.

You're, once again, misunderstanding what I'm saying.

The tiki-taka, Guardiola brand of football works. It has repeatedly delivered success for the majority of top teams in the majority of major leagues. The theory is sound.

I wasn't talking about our style of play this season, particularly given we don't play that style. I mentioned Leicester under Maresca as the example, not Wilder for us.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I suppose it could be an opinion that we'd be best off playing Cannon in net and Cooper on the wing, it's just obviously stupid.

As analogies go, that is pretty err, what’s that word?

 

[AWetFlannel]

As analogies go, that is pretty err, what’s that word?

Another who enjoys basking in his own smug aura more than trying to have a conversation in good faith. Doesn't it get boring?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Another who enjoys basking in his own smug aura more than trying to have a conversation in good faith. Doesn't it get boring?

The irony is tangible.

Smug?

“The reality is, most people that come don't feel responsible for creating an atmosphere, they have no intention of making any noise. Another group are just miserable, entitled twats, who think that unless we blow teams like Middlesbrough, Coventry and Sunderland away, we aren't playing well enough.”

An analysis of much of the fanbase after someone disagrees with a football point.

Much like your reply to me. Insult rather than debate. Poor form. And second hand old hat.

 

[AWetFlannel]

The irony is tangible.

Smug?

Yes, you come across as very smug.

“The reality is, most people that come don't feel responsible for creating an atmosphere, they have no intention of making any noise. Another group are just miserable, entitled twats, who think that unless we blow teams like Middlesbrough, Coventry and Sunderland away, we aren't playing well enough.”

An analysis of much of the fanbase after someone disagrees with a football point.

I don't want a reply, but I don't think it's controversial to say that most people that turn up don't feel responsible for creating an atmosphere and aren't bothered about chanting. I'm not judging these people, it's just the reality of modern football fandom for many clubs.

Much like your reply to me. Insult rather than debate. Poor form. And second hand old hat.

What's their to debate with you? You said my analogy was stupid, but not what it is about my actual point that you disagree with. Why pretend you want a debate with me about this when you obviously think you're above it. I've not insulted either of the people I've replied to in this thread today, you're just insufferable in my opinion.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Yes, you come across as very smug.

I don't want a reply, but I don't think it's controversial to say that most people that turn up don't feel responsible for creating an atmosphere and aren't bothered about chanting. I'm not judging these people, it's just the reality of modern football fandom for many clubs.

What's their to debate with you? You said my analogy was stupid, but not what it is about my actual point that you disagree with. Why pretend you want a debate with me about this when you obviously think you're above it. I've not insulted either of the people I've replied to in this thread today, you're just insufferable in my opinion.

If you couldn’t formulate any reply to the point, which was about a stupid analogy, then your only option, as shown twice in a very short time, is that you insult (inc part of our fanbase) . You’re all over the place.As your claim that you aren’t judging “miserable entitled twats” shows.

 

[Eyeball]

4. Tickets. Per. Member.

And cheaper…….

 

[AWetFlannel]

If you couldn’t formulate any reply to the point, which was about a stupid analogy, then your only option, as shown twice in a very short time, is that you insult (inc part of our fanbase) . You’re all over the place.

I didn't insult Nick despite him misunderstanding and insulting me, I didn't insult alcoblade in my replies to him. After numerous experiences of your sneering, belittling approach to posting on this forum, I decided to say I think you're smug.

Sorry if it's hurt your feelings, I'll end it there.

 

[FlamingLip]

And cheaper…….

And don't they like always win

 

[Sean Thornton]

I didn't insult Nick despite him misunderstanding and insulting me, I didn't insult alcoblade in my replies to him. After numerous experiences of your sneering, belittling approach to posting on this forum, I decided to say I think you're smug.

Sorry if it's hurt your feelings, I'll end it there.

I didn’t say you did. Can you ever deal with the point raised? I made it clear for you above.

Hurt feelings? School Days? You can’t help yourself.

 

[Nick Jansky]

You're, once again, misunderstanding what I'm saying.

The tiki-taka, Guardiola brand of football works. It has repeatedly delivered success for the majority of top teams in the majority of major leagues. The theory is sound.

I wasn't talking about our style of play this season, particularly given we don't play that style. I mentioned Leicester under Maresca as the example, not Wilder for us.

Tiki-taka works for clubs, usually elite ones, that have the players to successfully execute it. Thankfully, there are signs that its beginning to go out of style because it has become boring.

How would you describe our style?

 

[1889]

You're, once again, misunderstanding what I'm saying.

The tiki-taka, Guardiola brand of football works. It has repeatedly delivered success for the majority of top teams in the majority of major leagues. The theory is sound.

I wasn't talking about our style of play this season, particularly given we don't play that style. I mentioned Leicester under Maresca as the example, not Wilder for us.

Just because a style of football has been successful for some teams, doesn’t mean its is a style, that if adopted by every team, will produce the same levels of success.

The style of football a team play has to take into consideration the players available and their individual attributes. Guardiola brand of football, relies on top level players all over the pitch, who are comfortable in possession, one touch passing and mobility. It aims to draw the opponents out of position, before exploiting the space, with intricate passing, quick movement and rapid strikers.

It’s certainly a case of horses for courses, I mean, where do you suppose Pep would play Jack Robinson and Keiffer Moore?

(Not withstanding that Man City, successful or not, are one of the most boring teams to watch on the Planet.)

 

[AWetFlannel]

Just because a style of football has been successful for some teams, doesn’t mean its is a style, that if adopted by every team, will produce the same levels of success.

The style of football a team play has to take into consideration the players available and their individual attributes. Guardiola brand of football, relies on top level players all over the pitch, who are comfortable in possession, one touch passing and mobility. It aims to draw the opponents out of position, before exploiting the space, with intricate passing, quick movement and rapid strikers.

It’s certainly a case of horses for courses, I mean, where do you suppose Pep would play Jack Robinson and Keiffer Moore?

(Not withstanding that Man City, successful or not, are one of the most boring teams to watch on the Planet.)

I agree with most of that, but I don't think that style requires top level players. Birmingham have done it this season in league 1, and Swansea have used it in recent seasons with decent results given their budget.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Tiki-taka works for clubs, usually elite ones, that have the players to successfully execute it.

Which is the only point I was making when I said the style works.

How would you describe our style?

Not sure tbh, it's not extreme enough in any way for me to put my finger on it. Wilder seems to agree with the "over, around, or through" stuff he's been saying recently. Sometimes we are direct and don't try to hold onto possession, sometimes we play it out from the back slowly.

 

[Valley Blade]

I agree with most of that, but I don't think that style requires top level players. Birmingham have done it this season in league 1, and Swansea have used it in recent seasons with decent results given their budget.

It requires top level players at the top level. Witness Southampton's attempt at it.

 

[AWetFlannel]

It requires top level players at the top level. Witness Southampton's attempt at it.

Any system requires top level players at the top level. Their squad was shite, bottom 3 at best, and they finished bottom 3. Had they played another style, the result would have likely been the same.

Perhaps for newly promoted teams having to compete against the best of the best every other week, it's a slightly worse style than others. It requires confidence and belief, which is hard to maintain when you're getting mauled constantly.

There are far more teams that play safe, defensive and negative and get pounded just as badly, we should know that as well as anyone. It might be slightly easier playing that football, but I think it's overstated. Southampton hoped their momentum and belief in their style was a better bet than ripping it all up and going direct. They had players suited to that style and manager who has successfully coached it, it was as good a bet as any imo. It's not like they improved under Juric.

 

[Valley Blade]

Any system requires top level players at the top level. Their squad was shite, bottom 3 at best, and they finished bottom 3. Had they played another style, the result would have likely been the same.

Perhaps for newly promoted teams having to compete against the best of the best every other week, it's a slightly worse style than others. It requires confidence and belief, which is hard to maintain when you're getting mauled constantly.

There are far more teams that play safe, defensive and negative and get pounded just as badly, we should know that as well as anyone. It might be slightly easier playing that football, but I think it's overstated. Southampton hoped their momentum and belief in their style was a better bet than ripping it all up and going direct. They had players suited to that style and manager who has successfully coached it, it was as good a bet as any imo. It's not like they improved under Juric.

You said that you didn't think that style requires top level players. You must play a style that's effective. To think championship standard players can play like that, in the premiership, is foolish in my opinion and mostly derives from the ego of the manager.

 

[AWetFlannel]

You said that you didn't think that style requires top level players.

By which I meant that the style is also viable for 2nd, 3rd and 4th division teams, and for mid table teams in all those leagues (like Swansea).

You must play a style that's effective. To think championship standard players can play like that, in the premiership, is foolish in my opinion and mostly derives from the ego of the manager.

Right, but I also think that Championship standard players will be unsuccessful playing direct football in the PL. You get boned either way if your players aren't up to the level.

 

[FriethBlade]

Pretty sure they sold out by phase 2 or 3, but as I mentioned in SB, my friend, his dad and brother are members and between them bought 12 tickets to take family. I took 4, on 4 separate memberships. When I bought the tickets i couldn't take my daughter, or wife, or dad or mum etc...

That's because , according to some on here, if they let season ticket holders buy more than one each some season ticket holders wouldn't get a ticket as we would sell out before they got chance

One things for sure if we make another play off final in the next 5 years we will be lucky to sell 25k never mind 35k so they had better come up with a better plan

 

[alcoblade]

I agree with most of that, but I don't think that style requires top level players. Birmingham have done it this season in league 1, and Swansea have used it in recent seasons with decent results given their budget.

I'm not sure many people are arguing about the effectiveness of the style. I think the realisation is dawning, for many, that the premier league isn't worth the pain. What you can at least hope for, an entertaining 90 minutes. Last season was incredibly boring given that we amassed 92 points.

 

[alcoblade]

That's because , according to some on here, if they let season ticket holders buy more than one each some season ticket holders wouldn't get a ticket as we would sell out before they got chance

One things for sure if we make another play off final in the next 5 years we will be lucky to sell 25k never mind 35k so they had better come up with a better plan

They really need a rethink about the way we sell tickets should we get to a playoff final in the next few years. We're looking at an embarrassingly low backing should it happen and we continue with the current approach.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I'm not sure many people are arguing about the effectiveness of the style.

They aren't in this thread, you're right. I was talking about fans generally, and a lot regularly express that view, the "what's the point of passing it out from a goal kick if you're just going to hoof it up anyway" stuff.

I think the realisation is dawning, for many, that the premier league isn't worth the pain.

Couldn't agree more, it's completely broken.

What you can at least hope for, an entertaining 90 minutes. Last season was incredibly boring given that we amassed 92 points.

I found most of the games last season interesting and satisfying from a football perspective. It's the atmosphere and mood around the club that makes me wonder whether I'm wasting my money.

 

[alcoblade]

They aren't in this thread, you're right. I was talking about fans generally, and a lot regularly express that view, the "what's the point of passing it out from a goal kick if you're just going to hoof it up anyway" stuff.

Couldn't agree more, it's completely broken.

I found most of the games last season interesting and satisfying from a football perspective. It's the atmosphere and mood around the club that makes me wonder whether I'm wasting my money.

There's a few things leading to a poor atmosphere, generally linked to a poor distribution of where people have to sit on the kop. But putting those things aside, there's no doubt that goals and attacking play raise the crowd's spirit. And this year that's been in short supply.