CONFIRMED Harvey Gilmour on loan to Tranmere Rovers - UPDATE: Now perm

[trfc2015]

Confirmed this evening, no mention of a fee

I'm delighted as he has looked really good and capable of playing at a higher level

 

[Foxy]

Confirmed this evening, no mention of a fee

I'm delighted as he has looked really good and capable of playing at a higher level

If we've been sensible, we'll have a buyback clause.

Best of luck to the lad, he's got some talent.

 

[TCsLoveChild]

Confirmed this evening, no mention of a fee

I'm delighted as he has looked really good and capable of playing at a higher level

GLTTL

 

[Redhead]

Great move for the lad. Deserves his chance to progress his career.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Our products seem to be either

• picked up by richer/PL clubs
• not even good enough to become squad players for us

 

[Redhead]

Our products seem to be either

• picked up by richer/PL clubs
• not even good enough to become squad players for us

Why should Gilmour or any other young player we have be satisfied with being a squad player with us and play a league cup and FA Cup game a season when they can go and play football week in week out and make a career for themselves.
Do you realise the standard required to be in a top 4 Championship squad? Never mind in the starting line up.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Why should Gilmour or any other young player we have be satisfied with being a squad player with us and play a league cup and FA Cup game a season when they can go and play football week in week out and make a career for themselves.
Do you realise the standard required to be in a top 4 Championship squad? Never mind in the starting line up.

I was just pointing out the fact that our products seem to be either too good for us, or not good enough.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Shame, hope he does well and we have a buy back clause. Any news about the fee?

 

[robbiez666]

I'm surprised as I thought there were high hopes for him and he's been impressing out on loan.

I wonder what the U-23 regulars make of it.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I was just pointing out the fact that our products seem to be either too good for us, or not good enough.

Not good enough is arguable though.

We let someone go only a couple of years ago for nowt who's now wanted by West Brom.

 

[Silent Blade]

Our products seem to be either

• picked up by richer/PL clubs
• not even good enough to become squad players for us

Think Brooks might be the last to be picked up by a PL club for a while. Our Academy is now Category 2 and our best players in the younger age groups are being picked up by the Category 1 Academies

 

[Chali 2na]

Not good enough is arguable though.

We let someone go only a couple of years ago for nowt who's now wanted by West Brom.

Being good enough at the time required and being good enough eventually are two entirely different things.

 

[mancunianblade]

Its a smart way to progress our youngsters imo. 6/12 months somewhere isnt enough to turn them into starters in the majority of cases. the confirmation seemed to suggest no fee but a number of clauses.

Move them on

Being good enough at the time required and being good enough eventually are two entirely different things.

Very true. 6/12 months somewhere doesnt in the majority of cases make a player a ready for our 11. move them on for a nominal amount and inc a buy back and significant sell ons

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Being good enough at the time required and being good enough eventually are two entirely different things.

Quite, but for the outlay those 2 years would cost....particularly if covered by a couple of loan deals to determine if they are or not, surely it's worth keeping around? It's difficult to judge (see Mr Brooks) if a player is good enough before they reach 20/21 due to physical/mental development.

 

[Chali 2na]

Quite, but for the outlay those 2 years would cost....particularly if covered by a couple of loan deals to determine if they are or not, surely it's worth keeping around? It's difficult to judge (see Mr Brooks) if a player is good enough before they reach 20/21 due to physical/mental development.

You could say that about just about any academy graduate though: keep them around, just in case they make it.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

You could say that about just about any academy graduate though: keep them around, just in case they make it.

Yep, however in Gilmours case we have a player that is young still, yet in his first foray into professional football is attracting positive reviews. Seems a bit mental just to let him go on a perm and for what I understand, very little fee.

 

[Chali 2na]

Yep, however in Gilmours case we have a player that is young still, yet in his first foray into professional football is attracting positive reviews. Seems a bit mental just to let him go on a perm and for what I understand, very little fee.

I sort of thought the same about Ben Whiteman, but at the end of the day, we can't just hoard any academy player that shows a hint of promise, in the faint hope that they may one day be good enough.

I haven't seen enough of Gilmour to judge, so I might be wrong, but assuming there's a reasonable sell on/buy back, then I can only see this move as a positive for all parties.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I was just pointing out the fact that our products seem to be either too good for us, or not good enough.

I think Prem clubs are very quick to jump on potential talent these days and if they've appeared internationally that seems to be a given now. Whether they turn out to be a Brooks or a Slew, we tend to find out very quickly.

With the stupid money these days, if, say Bournemouth went down, they'd have a queue of lower Prem/promoted clubs ready to pay £20M for Brooks. If they fail, they're soon shunted off somewhere and no-one is worried about a few million quid lost.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I sort of thought the same about Ben Whiteman, but at the end of the day, we can't just hoard any academy player that shows a hint of promise, in the faint hope that they may one day be good enough.

I haven't seen enough of Gilmour to judge, so I might be wrong, but assuming there's a reasonable sell on/buy back, then I can only see this move as a positive for all parties.

Aye, thought the same about Whiteman too. As pointed out, whilst on loan they're getting the football they want, they aren't costing us much, so I'd have thought the business model would be to test them at a particularly level, if they succeed then try and move them up a level. Even if they don't play for us, having good seasons and being youthful at league 1 level can surely attract decent bids compared to just letting them join the loan club on a perm.

We probably never even touted him out

 

[Chali 2na]

Aye, thought the same about Whiteman too. As pointed out, whilst on loan they're getting the football they want, they aren't costing us much, so I'd have thought the business model would be to test them at a particularly level, if they succeed then try and move them up a level. Even if they don't play for us, having good seasons and being youthful at league 1 level can surely attract decent bids compared to just letting them join the loan club on a perm.

We probably never even touted him out

I get what you're saying, sort of a like a Chelsea-lite system; keep loaning them out (often at a profit) until there either good enough or surplus.

My only problem is, that while that may be useful financially, it probabaly doesn't get the best out of the players; I've seen loads of great Chelsea youngsters waste the formulative period of their careers bouncing from one loan to another, as their development stalls.

I think often, the benifit from the stability that a permanent deal and an X year contract offers is what helps these players thrive.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I get what you're saying, sort of a like a Chelsea-lite system; keep loaning them out (often at a profit) until there either good enough or surplus.

My only problem is, that while that may be useful financially, it probabaly doesn't get the best out of the players; I've seen loads of great Chelsea youngsters waste the formulative period of their careers bouncing from one loan to another, as their development stalls.

I think often, the benifit from the stability that a permanent deal and an X year contract offers is what helps these players thrive.

Indeed, even Kev himself has said the academy needs to be self funding almost, so surprised at this deal (though I do think it's great that we have an academy that is producing professional footballers).

Like Ball_Sup (Phil) always says though, are they any worse than some of the players we've brought in for fees/on much bigger contracts?
Is Norrington-Davies that far behind Johnson?
We'll never really know.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

My favourite story from the times I've seen Gilmour play isn't actually about his playing abilities. At Bristol City away in August 2017 Slater, Semple, Smith & Mallon were all out injured. They made Gilmour Captain that day. He scored a great opening goal after half an hour. But, just a minute into the second half he took a right whack on his knee (I think) right in front of the bench. He had to come off for the sub. The physio wallahs ice packed him up. Then, he just sat alongsise Binnion on the bench for the rest of the second half. Bawling out instructions & tactics & gentle encouragement (with occasional frustration) at top volume. The staff (Inc Trav) seemed to trust him & let him get on with it. Obvs, as just a young lad, he couldn't really compete with Binnion in the Sustained Volume Challenge. But, he gave it a right go. That episode said (to me) a lot about Harvey, Binnion & how our Academy treat the young lads. Superb cameo....

 

[Chali 2na]

Indeed, even Kev himself has said the academy needs to be self funding almost, so surprised at this deal (though I do think it's great that we have an academy that is producing professional footballers).

Like Ball_Sup (Phil) always says though, are they any worse than some of the players we've brought in for fees/on much bigger contracts?
Is Norrington-Davies that far behind Johnson?
We'll never really know.

The academy is self funding in a sense that it's provided us with more money from the sales of academy graduates, than it costs to run (despite it not being cheap).

In an ideal world, it would provide us with players for the first team too, but we don't live in an ideal world.

You're example of Johnson and Norrington-Davies is an interesting one. Either N-D is woefully short of the required standard or Wilder sees something in Johnson we don't.

 

[Chali 2na]

My favourite story from the times I've seen Gilmour play isn't actually about his playing abilities. At Bristol City away in August 2017 Slater, Semple, Smith & Mallon were all out injured. They made Gilmour Captain that day. He scored a great opening goal after half an hour. But, just a minute into the second half he took a right whack on his knee (I think) right in front of the bench. He had to come off for the sub. The physio wallahs ice packed him up. Then, he just sat alongsise Binnion on the bench for the rest of the second half. Bawling out instructions & tactics & gentle encouragement (with occasional frustration) at top volume. The staff (Inc Trav) seemed to trust him & let him get on with it. Obvs, as just a young lad, he couldn't really compete with Binnion in the Sustained Volume Challenge. But, he gave it a right go. That episode said (to me) a lot about Harvey, Binnion & how our Academy treat the young lads. Superb cameo....

Maybe the real purpose of the academy is to produce future managers, and were just playing the long game.

 

[I should coco]

Maybe the real purpose of the academy is to produce future managers

Nah, it's to keep Ball_Sup (Phil) and the CBF off the streets. Imagine the carnage at local railway stations if the platforms were snided out with anorak wearing sharp elbowed types, kidney punching old ladies to get a better view of a Deltic 6-4-2.

At least when they're at Stocksbridge, plod know where they are and can have the folding steel wall at the ready......

 

[Champagneblade]

Victim of our progression.

20 years old. Done well in League Two though even then he was a little in and out for a while.

Contrast to Brooks, already around 1st team at that point.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I had a nice friendly chat with Travis Binnion at the U23s at Crewe yesterday. I'm very much a fan. Close to Man-Crush. I dote on every word he says & find a lot of what he says very interesting. He never says "between me & you". But, I wouldn't want to break any confidence. In general terms, he discussed the natural frustration of football people, with a winning mentality, like him, Geary, Dungworth, Wadsworth, not being able to pick the best side to win a particular game. But, needing to pick players, and put them in positions to further their development, rather than win. For eg, George Cantrill in the middle of a three, pushing Sam Graham out right. To put Cantrill under pressure & let him have some exposure to that role. And, eg asking Stephen Mallon to play LWB, rather than the roving Midfield or up top role he is more suited to. Travis mentioned something along the lines of "we're playing two nines & two tens today". I'm emphasising, he was not moaning, or wishing it any other way. He was just trying to explain that he & the others have to rein in their winning mentality for the greater good. A nice insight I thought.

 

[BushBlade]

Aye, thought the same about Whiteman too. As pointed out, whilst on loan they're getting the football they want, they aren't costing us much, so I'd have thought the business model would be to test them at a particularly level, if they succeed then try and move them up a level. Even if they don't play for us, having good seasons and being youthful at league 1 level can surely attract decent bids compared to just letting them join the loan club on a perm.

We probably never even touted him out

Do you really believe that? That Binnion and Wilder haven’t considered keeping the young players and loaning then out? Or that we haven’t tried to get a better deal for Gilmour (and nor has his agent?).

Bear in mind L2 clubs probably can’t afford to pay the full wages and even if they can, it’s only for nine months out of twelve, maximum.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Do you really believe that? That Binnion and Wilder haven’t considered keeping the young players and loaning then out? Or that we haven’t tried to get a better deal for Gilmour (and nor has his agent?).

Bear in mind L2 clubs probably can’t afford to pay the full wages and even if they can, it’s only for nine months out of twelve, maximum.

Seems all out of the blue, same as Whiteman really, same situation with both...with the receiving club ecstatic they've managed to get the player in perm. Always had the impression Gilmour was highly thought of here.

 

[8lade]

Do you realise the standard required to be in a top 4 Championship squad? Never mind in the starting line up.

Not that high judging on Sunday's performance!