Outgoing? Hamer

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ormester said:
Lose hamer it easily is the biggest blow the thing is the owners have done sweet fa to show ambition
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Aye
Equally,:- lose Bramall Lane to a meteorite strike is an equivalent “biggest blow” especially given the owners have “done sweet fa” to show ambition given their failure to construct a ‘golden dome’ over S2
 

If we sell and replace = not bothered 😕 to be expected when we don’t go up.

If we sell and for replace … new owners have not got a lot to piss in and we are in trouble.

One thing with the prince was he always got top whack and we usually signed a replacement
 
TL: DR - I think we should cash in for 15m

A few thoughts on value:

  • He is 28 (and will be 29 next year entering the final year of his contract).
  • His value will be impacted by his age, as clubs won't be factoring in playing ability growth, and potential future profit in their valuation.
  • For that reason I think his value is around 15m, low for a Championship POY, high for 28yo with 1 year in the top flight.
  • His value next year will be around 8m-10m - meaning the cost of retaining him will be ~5-7m (100 - 120k a week).
  • If we are able to reinvest the funds, this perpetuates the asset that we developed with Ndiaye. I, like many, was devistated to lose Ndiaye, but if we don't sell Ndiaye (and he leaves for free), we don't have Hamer, and potentially the next player (or players) those funds can be used on.

On field:

  • Losing your best player is never a good thing, players of his quality don't pull on our shirt that often.
  • BUT I question whether Hamer will have the same incremental impact on the Selles team.
  • Wilders approach last season was basically, stay solid, and let our talent win out. It was a successful strategy that got us a lot of points. You need players like Hamer to do something special in that scenario.
  • Selles is more of a system approach (like Wilder first term), whereby the collective (if successful) is greater than its sum. Losing a uniquely talented player out of this system may not be as damaging as it would have been under Wilder's approach.
  • There is also a question of fit for Hamer in the system. We know the plan is to play him centrally which makes him either the 10 or one of the 2 CM positions.
  • At 10 : He is going to be expected to do a lot of pressing, which I think he is OK at, but actually think O'Hare is better at. From a Creative perspective I like Hamer more than O'Hare, but O'Hare is an adequate replacement (and there could also be an incoming replacement if we spend the funds). There may also be cases where we want to use the 10 for actual strikers too, of which we have many options. Peck can play there, and apparently Caceres can too (who knows how good he is).
  • At B2B CM: I think he can do a great job here and would probably be the position I would slotd him in, but we also have Peck, Blaster, Brooks and maybe (big MAYBE) Davies.
  • At DM: He can play DM, at Coventry he was long considered a DM, I remember calling for us to sign him at DM when Cov got promoted from League One. In the Selles System where the DM is going often find himself isolated and needing to cover a lot of space, I don't really see Hamer as a good fit and potentially a waste of his talent. I believe Coventry played dual DMs too. Arblaster can play DM, but moreover, I think we are all hoping/expecting for a real replacement for Souza.

On balance then, if the funds are made available for reinvestment then I would be OK with selling. Either with a plan to replace him with a creative CM/10, or more likely a really high quality winger (Like this Finnish lad). Get a high potential younger player we can develop to be worth 15m+ in the future so that we can extend the asset we developed with Ndiaye as long as possible.
 
Looks like Feyenoord are soon to be €40m richer and will need someone who can play on the left wing...


1000033330.webp
 
3Cheers4Ramirez said:
He was far from brilliant in the championship. Why should we have got more? If he was half as good as he's hyped to be we'd have been much more dominant last season. Souza looked right at home at championship level. Let's see how popular he is with the Wolfsburg fans, who are more accustomed to having Brazilian players and won't be quite so dazzled
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Far from brilliant in the Championship, absolute dogshit in the top flight, and we still made a profit on him. Can't say fairer than that.
 
Sithblade said:
Either he's buying storage boxes to pack up or new furniture for his gaff, so he's either off or staying 🤷
View attachment 216270
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Earns tens of thousands of pounds a week but eats pizza from Fat Sam's in Dronny and shops at Dunelm.

That's the behaviour of a true Yorkshireman. He's staying, tha knows.
 

SUFCScorecard said:
  • Selles is more of a system approach (like Wilder first term), whereby the collective (if successful) is greater than its sum. Losing a uniquely talented player out of this system may not be as damaging as it would have been under Wilder's approach.
Click to expand...

No, he's not.

Wilder was a system man. Pick a system and formation and every player must play to it, even if it means cramming square pegs into round holes. It doesn't matter what your strengths are, all decisions are made for you. If scenario A happens, do this. If scenario B happens, do this. It was predictable robotic football, like Didsy recently commented about. Win, win, win even if it means players are bang average and don't develop.

Selles is about finding a system that plays to his players strengths and developing them in their roles so that they play with instincts and to their strengths. Hence why so many players kept the ball against York and ran with it, instead of pass, pass, pass boring Subbuteo football. Granted it was only against York, but Marsh played really well playing his natural game, the same as he's been doing for the development team for the last two seasons. O'Hare stood out as he loves to run with the ball, something players seldom did under Wilder. Brooks looked effective on the wing instead of lost, because he could run and take on players.

Their efforts and intensity might be the same as each other in training but that's where Selles and Wilder being similar stops. Wilder was all about the result. Selles is about coaching, developing and improving players, which may see a drop in results along the way, but in the long term will see the players get better and then results will improve.
 
Last edited:
Tony_Kaufman said:
No, he's not.

Wilder was a system man. Pick a system and formation and every player must play to it, even if it means cramming square pegs into round holes. It doesn't matter what your strengths are, all decisions are made for you. If scenario A happens, do this. If scenario B happens, do this. It was predictable robotic football, like Didsy recently commented about. Win, win, win even if it means players are bang average and don't develop.

Selles is about finding a system that plays to his players strengths and developing them in their roles so that they play with instincts and to their strengths. Hence why so many players kept the ball against York and ran with it, instead of pass, pass, pass boring Subbuteo football. Granted it was only against York, but Marsh played really well playing his natural game, the same as he's been doing for the development team for the last two seasons. O'Hare stood out as he loves to run with the ball, something players seldom did under Wilder. Brooks looked effective on the wing instead of lost, because he could run and take on players.

Their efforts and intensity might be the same as each other in training but that's where Selles and Wilder being similar stops. Wilder was all about the result. Selles is about coaching, developing and improving players, which may see a drop in results along the way, but in the long term will see the players get better and then results will improve.
Click to expand...
It's all quite exciting really isn't it?
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
It's all quite exciting really isn't it?
Click to expand...
I'm excited about the prospect about what we could become, even if it takes more than one season. It'll be refreshing to potentially read positive comments on RoysView rather than the same negative comments that opposing fans had about us all of last season.
 
Just guessing but I think Souza is the “cutting our cloth” sale…..Hamer we can afford to play hardball on with the vast majority of the fee being used for a replacement.

Worth remembering we haven’t got Arkwright McCabe in charge these days.
 
SUFCScorecard said:
TL: DR - I think we should cash in for 15m

A few thoughts on value:

  • He is 28 (and will be 29 next year entering the final year of his contract).
  • His value will be impacted by his age, as clubs won't be factoring in playing ability growth, and potential future profit in their valuation.
  • For that reason I think his value is around 15m, low for a Championship POY, high for 28yo with 1 year in the top flight.
  • His value next year will be around 8m-10m - meaning the cost of retaining him will be ~5-7m (100 - 120k a week).
  • If we are able to reinvest the funds, this perpetuates the asset that we developed with Ndiaye. I, like many, was devistated to lose Ndiaye, but if we don't sell Ndiaye (and he leaves for free), we don't have Hamer, and potentially the next player (or players) those funds can be used on.

On field:

  • Losing your best player is never a good thing, players of his quality don't pull on our shirt that often.
  • BUT I question whether Hamer will have the same incremental impact on the Selles team.
  • Wilders approach last season was basically, stay solid, and let our talent win out. It was a successful strategy that got us a lot of points. You need players like Hamer to do something special in that scenario.
  • Selles is more of a system approach (like Wilder first term), whereby the collective (if successful) is greater than its sum. Losing a uniquely talented player out of this system may not be as damaging as it would have been under Wilder's approach.
  • There is also a question of fit for Hamer in the system. We know the plan is to play him centrally which makes him either the 10 or one of the 2 CM positions.
  • At 10 : He is going to be expected to do a lot of pressing, which I think he is OK at, but actually think O'Hare is better at. From a Creative perspective I like Hamer more than O'Hare, but O'Hare is an adequate replacement (and there could also be an incoming replacement if we spend the funds). There may also be cases where we want to use the 10 for actual strikers too, of which we have many options. Peck can play there, and apparently Caceres can too (who knows how good he is).
  • At B2B CM: I think he can do a great job here and would probably be the position I would slotd him in, but we also have Peck, Blaster, Brooks and maybe (big MAYBE) Davies.
  • At DM: He can play DM, at Coventry he was long considered a DM, I remember calling for us to sign him at DM when Cov got promoted from League One. In the Selles System where the DM is going often find himself isolated and needing to cover a lot of space, I don't really see Hamer as a good fit and potentially a waste of his talent. I believe Coventry played dual DMs too. Arblaster can play DM, but moreover, I think we are all hoping/expecting for a real replacement for Souza.

On balance then, if the funds are made available for reinvestment then I would be OK with selling. Either with a plan to replace him with a creative CM/10, or more likely a really high quality winger (Like this Finnish lad). Get a high potential younger player we can develop to be worth 15m+ in the future so that we can extend the asset we developed with Ndiaye as long as possible.
Click to expand...
I think you do make some good points here and I'd be inclined to agree with some of it if we were not entering our first full season with new owners.

There's a bit of an obsession with shifting players on when they get to a certain age in order to recoup some funds before they end up in Saudi or MLS nowadays. I'd like to think that under new ownership, recouping funds in the region of 15m shouldn't entirely be necessary at this point, especially after the sale of Souza and given there's not many players around like Hamer for that price point. At 28/29 Hamer is pretty much going to be in his prime now and with his flare, passing ability and finishing, I really think he'll shine in this Selles team. 15m will be peanuts if he gets us promoted and if we don't, I'd like to think that the new owners won't be flapping about the idea of his value dropping in his final year.

There's other aspects at play in terms of parachute payments and whether or not the player wants to move, but the owners should and will have had to put together a thorough plan to the EFL in order to buy us in the first place, one of which would be how they manage the funds when parachute payments end. I think these folks do have some decent money behind them, I think they're just being sensible about where and how it's spent. If Hamer isn't pushing for a move, to me, it's not a sensible decision to sell him this window given what he is very much capable of helping us to achieve this coming season.
 
Ideal scenario for me: Gus loves it here and really likes Selles, so agrees a new 5 year contract with another year option.

Becomes club captain in 2026 after leading us to the league title.

Starts to become a rotation option by 2028/29 as our Premier League squad swells with top class players, whilst we suckle at the corporate teat.

Gus decides to legally change his name to "Harmer", announcing his definitive choice of pronunciation across all of social medias.

Or something like that. Hope we keep him, he's got quality that's very hard to buy at our level.
 
If PSV have won the title and are champions league bound, why are they wanting a championship player, answer to be a squad player, Gus isn't going to be a first choice, hardly going to help his Brazil ambitions stuck on the bench. wages might be better admittedly, but he seems to love playing and he's our star player at the lane and what better than to take us to the Premier League
 
Pintor75 said:
If PSV have won the title and are champions league bound, why are they wanting a championship player, answer to be a squad player, Gus isn't going to be a first choice, hardly going to help his Brazil ambitions stuck on the bench. wages might be better admittedly, but he seems to love playing and he's our star player at the lane and what better than to take us to the Premier League
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They play in the Eredivisie, he would be a starter, it isn’t a strong league. They will be cannon fodder in the Champions League.
 

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