GoalWatch vs Walsall

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Bergen Blade

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Things have been going well this season as Wilder have done really well after a difficult start. There's simply not been a lot to worry about, and GoalWatch analyses have not felt worthwhile - we've generally been quite solid. The Walsall goals were disappointing though, so here's an exception:


1st
- We're on the attack with plenty of players forward, but Duffy loses possession just outside their box. Oztumer finds their left wing back Edwards who runs onto the ball and continues unchallenged into our half. He slips it through to Bakayoko who finishes past Moore.

A great counter attack by them, but we're making a few errors. Duffy tries to control the ball in a situation where he knows it is very dangerous to lose it, especially as we have so many people (Basham included) forward. Neither Basham (tired) nor Coutts (not his strength) are able to keep up with Edwards.

Skjermbilde 2017-01-15 21.15.52.png

A few seconds later Walsall have achieved a 2 against 1 situation with EEL foolishly stepping forward to challenge the running Edwards, rather than dropping off.

Skjermbilde 2017-01-15 21.39.57.png
* We need EEL to rescue us, but he becomes a traffic cone instead. Coutts can barely keep up with the referee, let alone their runner.

The ball is slipped through and O'Connell can't get across in time to block the shot. Moore is rather easily beaten, being positioned too close to the near post.




We push forward with too many men; lack the work rate to stop the break and make further errors at the back.





2nd - Bit similar. We lose possession in a situation where we have many players in attack. Two defenders remain at the back and Coutts is again the deepest midfielder and again he doesn't take the responsibility of running backwards to cover the space in front of our defenders:

Skjermbilde 2017-01-15 21.45.53.png

O'Connell does make a backtracking run and tackles Cuvelier, but the ball falls to McCarthy. Again Coutts doesn't get involved (appeals for a free kick while jogging). EEL is again caught flat footed (should have backed off again), and a 1-2 sees McCarthy through:

Walsall.png

Moore makes a big error letting that shot in.





We're too sloppy when it comes to preventing the break and repeat the mistakes of the first goal.


3rd - Another break. We lose possession in midfield and a ball over the top sees Bakayoko on the ball down our right side. Freeman catches up with him, but can't stop the pass infield to Edwards. He sidesteps EEL and finishes cooly past a wrong footed Moore.



I know EEL looks slow here, but this is a difficult situation for defenders, who often need their partner to step in and block the shot. O'Connell has stayed with Oztumer at the back post though, while Fleck can't make the block in time.

4th - Not a break. Walsall show some neat passing down our left. We lose patience, both Fleck and Coutts push over, leaving nobody to deal with Dobson centrally. A couple of more passes leads to a mix up between Freeman and Moore. Dobson sneaks in between them, goes down and a rather soft penalty is awarded, and converted.



We're getting desperate at this point, which causes a loss of concentration and organisation i.e. gaps defensively.



I think Walsall looked very well prepared for this game and had us sussed. Their midfield trio neutralised ours, their back three dealt well with Sharp and Lavery. On the break they seemed determined to exploit our midfield's mediocre back tracking, which exposed further weaknesses in our defence.

Going forward I felt we lacked some pace, flair and skill, someone with the ability of beating a man or two. The fact that Wilder only made two substitutions suggests he didn't think there was much more on the bench that could have helped, despite us struggling. I liked the tiki-taka video the other day, but we can't rely on carving through defences like that every match.
 
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Class post once again, excellent analysis.

I rate the Turkish lad that plays for Walsall, but think Carruthers is the better player. Think he'll add a lot when he plays. Also think we need this "Plan B" winger to replace Chapman.
 
Three of their goals against us this season have been counter attacks started by Oztumer where they get behind our defence. Bakayoko's also been involved every time (promising player).

I'd add for the second goal that Oztumer was allowed to run inside onto his left foot, just like he was at Bramall Lane. Show him onto his right, force them wide and keep it away from our exposed centre halves for as long as possible. Force Oztumer into less threatening positions and they don't have much left.

EEL's weaknesses were really highlighted yesterday. He's poor with play in front of him and runners around him.
 
Perhaps we should have been more defensive then Bergen and played for a draw. Or similar to what they did at BDTBL with their smash and grab raid.
 
Perhaps we should have been more defensive then Bergen and played for a draw. Or similar to what they did at BDTBL with their smash and grab raid.

We did try to be more compact by going 442 but the full backs didn't follow instructions. Don't think that would've happened with the more tactically astute Wright on the pitch organising the defence imo.
 
For the 3rd goal I think Freeman was still at wing back but Basham had moved into midfield.
 
Things have been going well this season as Wilder have done really well after a difficult start. There's simply not been a lot to worry about, and GoalWatch analyses have not felt worthwhile - we've generally been quite solid. The Walsall goals were disappointing though, so here's an exception:


1st
- We're on the attack with plenty of players forward, but Duffy loses possession just outside their box. Oztumer finds their left wing back Edwards who runs onto the ball and continues unchallenged into our half. He slips it through to Bakayoko who finishes past Moore.

A great counter attack by them, but we're making a few errors. Duffy tries to control the ball in a situation where he knows it is very dangerous to lose it, especially as we have so many people (Basham included) forward. Neither Basham (tired) nor Coutts (not his strength) are able to keep up with Edwards.

View attachment 22117

A few seconds later Walsall have achieved a 2 against 1 situation with EEL foolishly stepping forward to challenge the running Edwards, rather than dropping off.

View attachment 22118
* We need EEL to rescue us, but he becomes a traffic cone instead. Coutts can barely keep up with the referee, let alone their runner.

The ball is slipped through and O'Connell can't get across in time to block the shot. Moore is rather easily beaten, being positioned too close to the near post.




We push forward with too many men; lack the work rate to stop the break and make further errors at the back.





2nd - Bit similar. We lose possession in a situation where we have many players in attack. Two defenders remain at the back and Coutts is again the deepest midfielder and again he doesn't take the responsibility of running backwards to cover the space in front of our defenders:

View attachment 22119

O'Connell does make a backtracking run and tackles Cuvelier, but the ball falls to McCarthy. Again Coutts doesn't get involved (appeals for a free kick while jogging). EEL is again caught flat footed (should have backed off again), and a 1-2 sees McCarthy through:

View attachment 22120

Moore makes a big error letting that shot in.





We're too sloppy when it comes to preventing the break and repeat the mistakes of the first goal.


3rd - Another break. We lose possession in midfield and a ball over the top sees Bakayoko on the ball down our right side. Freeman catches up with him, but can't stop the pass infield to Edwards. He sidesteps EEL and finishes cooly past a wrong footed Moore.



I know EEL looks slow here, but this is a difficult situation for defenders, who often need their partner to step in and block the shot. O'Connell has stayed with Oztumer at the back post though, while Fleck can't make the block in time.

4th - Not a break. Walsall show some neat passing down our left. We lose patience, both Fleck and Coutts push over, leaving nobody to deal with Dobson centrally. A couple of more passes leads to a mix up between Freeman and Moore. Dobson sneaks in between them, goes down and a rather soft penalty is awarded, and converted.



We're getting desperate at this point, which causes a loss of concentration and organisation i.e. gaps defensively.



I think Walsall looked very well prepared for this game and had us sussed. Their midfield trio neutralised ours, their back three dealt well with Sharp and Lavery. On the break they seemed determined to exploit our midfield's mediocre back tracking, which exposed further weaknesses in our defence.

Going forward I felt we lacked some pace, flair and skill, someone with the ability of beating a man or two. The fact that Wilder only made two substitutions suggests he didn't think there was much more on the bench that could have helped, despite us struggling. I liked the tiki-taka video the other day, but we can't rely on carving through defences like that every match.

Think there manager called it right.walsall stats :: all 8s and 9s.
We had a. bad day at the office with
maybe 6s and 7s across the board.
Which == a team playing to just about there best where we were below par, that's it we lost!! we move on.
 
With regards to the defence, the team is set up to attack and get the ball forward quickly.

This is more apparent when Moore has the ball as play goes forward down either side, with Freeman and Lafferty taking the ball and pushing forward down either side. This is great as it helps us turn defence in to attack very quickly, but it can also leave us very vulnerable to the opposition breaking as we also play with a very high defensive line, and i think that we are very vulnerable to pace.

Our usual defence is a back three, with two wing backs, and i don't think it as an area we are particularly strong.

Ebanks-Landell is a bit of a talisman and a cult hero but i don't think he is that good a defender. I've thought for a while he can be hesitant and can often be caught in two minds. His strength is in the air and he looks strong in the tackle but he can easily be pulled out of position and doesn't seem to have a lot of real pace.

Jake Wright isn't as good as people think he is. His real strength is his organisational skills as he marshalls the back line superbly, and covers very, very well but i think he is also a very limited defender whose game is more centred on leading others, in a sense he reminds me a little of Paul McGrath with his football brain which is a huge positive, and i only think he should be selected as part of a three man defence and if he was part of a conventional flat back four he would leave us weakened.

Chris Basham can do an adequate job, but i think he suffers because he is a jack of all trades and master of none. He is solid in the air, solid in the tackle, and is very mobile, and as far as i can see he has all the attributes needed to be a central defender, but for some reason he doesn't seem to excel at the back as much as he should.

With the two wing backs, Freeman and Lafferty i think they are excellent in the current formation and are the reason i would be reluctant to change the formation, but i still think that Freeman looks very weak defensively and often loses his man when we are defending which causes more pressure of the man playing on the right of a 3 man defence which is usually EEL whose weaknesses i have already addressed. With Lafferty i don't think are many concerns defensively as he looks solid and dependable and would be quite comfortable to be played as a conventional left-back.

The one defender i think who looks like far and away our best defender is O'Connell. As a centre half he looks immense, strong in the tackle, strong in the air, and he has an excellent footballing brain, and he could easily play as either centre half or left back and not look out of place in either position.

It is important to remember that the Walsall defeat was only the second since last August and for the main part the defence has been solid, although they haven't been called upon that often, i still think there are weaknesses that persist, and this is going to be an area that we need to address if and when we get promoted as i just don't feel confident we will be that strong if we get promoted. I don't think i would be looking to keep EEL on if we go up, and if anything i would look to bring in someone who can strengthen the back 3 during this transfer window
 
I was going to defend Moore on another thread without seeing the video of the goals.....

He's had a good season but that was rubbish, Moore should have saved at least two of those first three... could have thrown your cap on those..

However, nobody is criticising the forwards are they, who again failed to score.. worrying developments but it's how they respond... ramsdale if this carries on..
 
I was going to defend Moore on another thread without seeing the video of the goals.....

He's had a good season but that was rubbish, Moore should have saved at least two of those first three... could have thrown your cap on those..

However, nobody is criticising the forwards are they, who again failed to score.. worrying developments but it's how they respond... ramsdale if this carries on..
The forwards got no service.

One forward scored last week and the other the week before. A forward has failed to score in the last game. Hardly a crisis
 
Good OP Bergen.

Coutts has quality but defending and tracking back are not in his locker.

Keeper's bad day meant the defence paid for their shortcomings. In truth Southend could have scored more and Bury should have scored more.

We miss Wright and this week we missed Lafferty as we always would defensively. Done is a 'butterfly' of a player, he flutters around most of the time but rarely fits in to the team pattern. I didn't go to Walsall but I imagine he was mostly anonymous plus in the wing back where he can't do his usual haring about closing down all and sundry, he has to be more disciplined.
 
Great post Bergen.

First 2 goals are down to Moore, both shots should be comfortable saves for him. The third is caused by us chasing the game and the penalty is ridiculously soft.

All we need is a little rethink. Maybe not let one of our back 3 push so far forward (Basham for 1st goal), especially if we are relying on Coutts to run back (his stride gets shorter when he goes back to our goal!!). Also, maybe other teams will see this, gain confidence and attack from the off, which should leave space for our forward players.
 
Excellent work again Bergen.
We wait to see what the reaction is over the next three games. Hopefully just one of those days & I'd be surprised if this squad doesn't pick themselves up & go again.
I think everything has been covered elsewhere re Moore, Laffertey the defence in general etc & we just have to trust Wilder & Knill to sort it out while we do our bit from the stands.
It's a shame there was no video footage from Belper Sports Red Socks Under 15's match yesterday. That defensive display made Saturdays look positively world class
 



Thankfully, there aren't many Oztumer's in this League but he has highlighted our weaknesses twice this season. The potential concerns expressed by some for both Moore and EEL were also there for all to see. I don't think it'll be a problem for this season due to the fact that teams know exactly how we play and most still haven't been able to nullify it but definitely food for thought a division above which I'm sure Tufty is well aware of.

What was interesting in his post match was the comment that he was trying to get the message across for them to switch to 4-4-2 but the players didn't respond.
 
I was going to defend Moore on another thread without seeing the video of the goals.....

He's had a good season but that was rubbish, Moore should have saved at least two of those first three... could have thrown your cap on those..

However, nobody is criticising the forwards are they, who again failed to score.. worrying developments but it's how they respond... ramsdale if this carries on..

Serious? We conceded 4, and you're trying to deflect blame to the strikers? Even if they did score, it's rare you're going to get anything from a game that you concede 4 in.
 
What was interesting in his post match was the comment that he was trying to get the message across for them to switch to 4-4-2 but the players didn't respond.

That seemed incredible to hear. Did he mean that they were told to switch before a goal and didn't (so maybe a 5 minute spell), or that they were told and didn't switch for an extended period of time? Either way a bit embarrassing on a communications front – which I wouldn't have expected in this group.
 
Just an off day for me where things really never went for us and 2 or 3 players had a bad game...I think we are always a bit vulnerable to teams like Walsall who have a bit of pace,move the ball quickly and hit us on the break..Coventry were another team who did the same at times,but didn't capitalise.
Fair play to Walsall,they got their game plan right,and with a bit of luck thrown in,it paid off...Oztumer always looks a good player and Joe Edwards always looks good against us..remember him looking decent for Colchester and Yeovil aswell.
A bit more discipline from United,,and CW to bring in a couple along with Carruthers fit,and I'm confident we'll be good enough for most teams in this League.
 
Just an off day for me where things really never went for us and 2 or 3 players had a bad game...I think we are always a bit vulnerable to teams like Walsall who have a bit of pace,move the ball quickly and hit us on the break..Coventry were another team who did the same at times,but didn't capitalise.
Fair play to Walsall,they got their game plan right,and with a bit of luck thrown in,it paid off...Oztumer always looks a good player and Joe Edwards always looks good against us..remember him looking decent for Colchester and Yeovil aswell.
A bit more discipline from United,,and CW to bring in a couple along with Carruthers fit,and I'm confident we'll be good enough for most teams in this League.

Agree about Joe Edwards. Don't know if he's one who's just performed well against us but he looks like an accomplished, versatile and tidy player. Only recently turned 26. Maybe one to keep an eye on. He's ideal at wing back.
 
I put it down to a bad day at the office. We win as a team and we lose as a team. The autopsy will be, and should be, behind closed doors. Individuals may have been caught flat footed (EEL) but perhaps the attacking players shouldn't have been in that position because someone else didn't do their job right in the first place.

Dust y'selves down lads and show us what yer made on!
 
Perhaps we should have been more defensive then Bergen and played for a draw. Or similar to what they did at BDTBL with their smash and grab raid.



I disagree. This will happen now and again playing the way we do but we’ve just won 6 on the bounce playing this way. If we win 6 and lose 1 that’s better than say winning 5 and drawing 2.


Long live the attacking play and attempts to steamroll opposition. Let’s not be put off by this hiccup.
 
Worrying that Coutts looks like he is back pedalling in those clips. If he is the holding midfielder he cannot afford to be caught upfield as he has no chance of tracking a fast attacker. When Basham is upfield Coutts should sit. Wilder will be having a word one suspects.
 
Agree about Joe Edwards. Don't know if he's one who's just performed well against us but he looks like an accomplished, versatile and tidy player. Only recently turned 26. Maybe one to keep an eye on. He's ideal at wing back.
Yeah,good player...like you say,we don't see him week in week out,and not sure if it's just against us,but always impresses as does Oztumer.
 
Yeah,good player...like you say,we don't see him week in week out,and not sure if it's just against us,but always impresses as does Oztumer.

Seems to me that he's been unfairly tainted by 3 relegations in 3 seasons. He had Championship interest in 2015 so that would suggest his performances against us weren't a one off. He was Yeovil's player of the season in the Championship. He rarely misses a game by the looks of it too so that's another plus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Edwards_(footballer)
 
Seems to me that he's been unfairly tainted by 3 relegations in 3 seasons. He had Championship interest in 2015 so that would suggest his performances against us weren't a one off. He was Yeovil's player of the season in the Championship. He rarely misses a game by the looks of it too so that's another plus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Edwards_(footballer)
I suppose the only downside is his lack of goals looking at the stats.
 
We know how Pep feels!

Listening to Souness talking about City he commented on how slow their ageing midfield was to react to Everton's counter attacks, and he could have been talking about us.

Everton had 4 shots on target out of 5 and scored 4 - Walsall had 6 on target and scored 4.

Our defence was left totally exposed to the counter - and then didn't manage it properly themselves. If we have the high press approach to the game, as well as being organised to cover you need high energy players everywhere - there are a few of ours that don't fit that description. I won't mention names to avoid a reaction from their fan clubs, but it's obvious who they are.

All that being said - put Moore in rehab for the week and we should be fine!!

UTB
 
At last someone who everyone on here has time for Bergen Blade has pointed out the same as many of us have been saying for a long time.
Only yesterday finlaytheblade pointed out how we have been getting away with this because of the League we are in. He also said that he believes CW knows this and will adjust for the Championship. The coverage in front of the defence is missing. I suggest we also go back to Southends 1st goal and tell me who went missing on that one and who was in the best position given the wait time for the throw to be taken but did not use that time to gain position early.
 



The original post is one of the best I've ever read, excellent analysis, but as its also an excellent "how to beat united" guide can I suggest it gets moved to the members only area. No point making it easy for others no matter how much they've worked out by themselves already.

I'd find similar analysis of when its not working so well in the final third interesting as well. All too often on saturday we'd quickly get to within 30 yards of their goal and then slow it down and go out wide and then little triangles on the flanks. Final ball much later bouncing back off the first defender or into the arms of the goalie with all their defenders standing just where they want to be.

The way we play with wing backs pushed up and often one of our back three also close to a touch line leaves us a bit vulnerable to a breakaway down the middle. As others have said it needs discipline from the back 3 and maybe to be a bit narrower when the wing backs are up field.
 

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