George Long

[alcoblade]

So the pint you were offering was unwinnable?

Anyone who puts Gilllingham bound Mel Eves in a list of players we disasterously gave away wont be getting a pint off me. Adding Ifill means you owe me a pint for cheek.



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[Sothall_Blade]

To be fair Alco, you moved the goalposts from what Blade Nath originally said.
He didn't say we "gave players away", he said we "sold them for a fraction of what they will/would be worth later"
On the original basis, I would suggest the following meet the criteria:-

Walker, Lowton, Quinn, Sharp, Jagielka, Britton, Kenny, Kelly, Derry, Dellas, Mendonca, Beagrie, Marsden, Cockerill, Edwards

Fair enough. But on that criteria, it's probably fair to say that (age aside) much more than than 50% of all players sold will be worth more later.

As I've said previously, the fact that a player who only signed a contract based on the insertion of a sell on clause is used to pad out the list says to me that people are padding out the list...... Kenny meets that criteria too, I think.

Of your list I'd say that Sharp and Mendonca are the obvious give aways. I can't remember enough of Cockerill and Edwards transfers. Britton was considered wank and his failure siad more about our style than business acumen. Same for Dellas.
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The original challenge you/Nath Blade set between you was to name 10 players who had been undersold (i.e. sold for less than were worth or they would later be worth)

I would say valid reasons for excluding people from my list are:-
1) United didn’t sell them for less than they were later worth

Not a valid reason for excluding them:-
1) You can’t remember them
2) Some fans thought they were w**k
3) United entered into some weird detrimental agreement that meant they were forced to sell them at too low a price
4) United needed the cash

I named 15 players who were undersold and I’m not sure how many of those you can reasonably exclude.
However, I do accept that 15 players undersold in the last 30 years is probably not an exceptionally high number compared with other clubs.
It’s just you see that I support Sheffield United and don’t really care what other clubs have been doing.

 

[Bladesway]

Ok, Eves a bad example. Disputing Ifil being the worst player ever to grace the planet as houso seems to remember, but there are still a few on the list which haven't been blasted. I'll go dig some more up if you fancy.

 

[Bladesway]

Ooh we got good money for Olivier Tebily and Curtis Woodhouse.

 

[Darren]

The original challenge you/Nath Blade set between you was to name 10 players who had been undersold (i.e. sold for less than were worth or they would later be worth)

I would say valid reasons for excluding people from my list are:-
1) United didn’t sell them for less than they were later worth

Not a valid reason for excluding them:-
1) You can’t remember them
2) Some fans thought they were w**k
3) United entered into some weird detrimental agreement that meant they were forced to sell them at too low a price
4) United needed the cash

I named 15 players who were undersold and I’m not sure how many of those you can reasonably exclude.
However, I do accept that 15 players undersold in the last 30 years is probably not an exceptionally high number compared with other clubs.
It’s just you see that I support Sheffield United and don’t really care what other clubs have been doing.

Fair point, but I think the standard moan (not that you adhere to it) is that United are run by a bunch of incompetents who, on the basis of what was known at the time, routinely undersell players. I think you would have trouble arguing that any of the players on your list were undersold on that basis.

And it seems to me nonsense to moan about an "underselling" on the basis of the later acheievments of players. Did Scunthorpe undersell future England internationals Keegan and Clemence to Liverpool for about £30K each?

 

[Bladesway]

You weren't aware that at the end of the play-off season, the parachute payments were running out?

No goalposts been shifted there. The point is those transfers don't exist in a vacuum. Cash flow is very important to a business, and sometimes selling for less money now is more beneficial to a business than holding on to something and selling it for more later.

All the rest of your post (robson aside) is all very well with the benefit of hindsight.

In fairness it was hindsight people were talking about at the time.

 

[alcoblade]

Ok, Eves a bad example. Disputing Ifil being the worst player ever to grace the planet as houso seems to remember, but there are still a few on the list which haven't been blasted. I'll go dig some more up if you fancy.

Hmmm, I think it's a bit futile unless we can define what "given away" means, which we've estblished we can't. I'm certain in my view that it's a myth that we are rank undervaluers of players. Though you'll have to do better to force a pint out of me for it (I'd get you one for being a Blade anyway), I don't expect to convince you to alter your opinion.

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[Bladesway]

Alco, doesn't stop the debate being interesting though does it?

 

[alcoblade]

Alco, doesn't stop the debate being interesting though does it?

Of course not fella. And in the end we agree to disagree, but both know I'm right.....

You mentioned Woodhouse as a good sale above - but funnily enough he was once linked with Rangers for something like £4 M (in The Sun ) and I remember proclaiming that if we gave him away for that, I'd be done with United..

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[Bergen Blade]

And it seems to me nonsense to moan about an "underselling" on the basis of the later acheievments of players. Did Scunthorpe undersell future England internationals Keegan and Clemence to Liverpool for about £30K each?

Don't you think a player's potential should be reflected in his value?

 

[Bladesway]

Of course not fella. And in the end we agree to disagree, but both know I'm right.....

You mentioned Woodhouse as a good sale above - but funnily enough he was once linked with Rangers for something like £4 M (in The Sun ) and I remember proclaiming that if we gave him away for that, I'd be done with United..

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Problem with Rangers is they would still owe us now

 

[Darren]

Don't you think a player's potential should be reflected in his value?

Of course, but potential can only be judged on what is known at the time.

On any objective view, you would have said players who had played 2-3 seasons in the second tier, looked pretty good there and had played for England under 21's (Morris and Woodhouse) had more potential than someone who (at around a similar age had played 5 second tier games and hadn't played for England under 21's (Walker).

As it happens, Walker turned out to be much better than Morris and Woodhouse, but I really can't see how it is fair to criticise people for not realising that in 2009.

 

[beightonblade]

This 'dealing' caper is dead fooking easy.......buy right is my tip!

 

[Bergen Blade]

Of course, but potential can only be judged on what is known at the time.

On any objective view, you would have said players who had played 2-3 seasons in the second tier, looked pretty good there and had played for England under 21's (Morris and Woodhouse) had more potential than someone who (at around a similar age had played 5 second tier games and hadn't played for England under 21's (Walker).

As it happens, Walker turned out to be much better than Morris and Woodhouse, but I really can't see how it is fair to criticise people for not realising that in 2009.

While they did well, both Morris and Woodhouse had limitations technically and physically. Walker was different, anyone involved in professional football should have spotted that he was an exceptional talent. Walker played for England U19s before he played for Sheffield United. While Blackwell was known for his reluctance to play youngsters, it may have been a surprise if Walker had been picked for the England U21 before he was picked for us.

I'm not sure who made the actual decision to sell him though?

 

[Hodgyman]

Would it be possible to have a thread whose main topic is gleamed from its title? In this case it is George Long. If people wish to write (or even debate) other topics such as things that happened years ago to players Long (no pun intended) gone, then would it be too much to ask that a new thread is started titled according to the discussion matter. I have had to read through 6 pages of comments and debate on separate issues when I chose the George Long thread expecting to read comments about George Long. After his fine series of displays this season, I would have expected to see comments related to praise for his good work