George Long

[Highbury_Blade]

Now who is making up stories to suit? Why would McCabe had someone to come in and assess our chances of promotion? All the press had us down as favourites to go back up that season so your "not fucking likely" comment is total and utter horseshit.

Oh, i don't know, why would anyone who's the CEO of a multimullion pound business assess the probability of success for the forthycoming year?

I didn't say anything about anyone 'coming in'.

The parachute payments had just run out, we had a massive wage bill, no striker to speak of - sounds a recipe for success right there doesn't it?

 

[Bladesway]

But here's my problem with your list (or request for me to break it down) - take Henderson. I wouldn't accept that he was undersold. If we are paying a player £15K per week that's only worth £5K per week, then what transfer fee should we expect? I wouldn't class Henderson as bad business. Same with Quinn.

Paul Iffil was surely just crap. Mel Eves - just can't remember but I have a feeling of barrel scraping there.

Either way, the myth is that we "give all out players away". My general point is that it's a struggle to break 10 names (and I believe people are scraping the barrel to hit that number) and given the amount of transfer activity and hence number of opportunities, the stats don't back up the myth that "we give everyone away".

UTB

But there you go, YOU believe people are barrel scraping but you laid a gauntlet down to name 10 players. I sat there for 10 minutes and put that list together. If anyone could actually be arsed I am certain they could list you a lot more than 10 that in their opinion were given away.

Paul Ifill, so shit we paid £800k for him a season before. Also, you said sold cheap, Henderson and Quinn were sold cheap make no bones about it. there was an alterior motive but thats not what you asked.

I do believe your point that we don't just give players away on all occasions to be correct. But we do have a history of dropping our drawers as soon as someone comes with an offer. We never keep players, we never play hard ball with people, we just appear to roll over and have our tummy tickled. Even teams like Bristol Rovers used to sell their strikers at a price (Nathan Ellington, Jason Roberts, Ricky Lambert, Marcus Stewart to name a few) and you can't tell me they weren't a selling club. Yet we are all led down the garden path to the tune of "we're not Man United so we have to sell". To some thats hard to take.

 

[Bladesway]

Oh, i don't know, why would anyone who's the CEO of a multimullion pound business assess the probability of success for the forthycoming year?

I didn't say anything about anyone 'coming in'.

The parachute payments had just run out, we had a massive wage bill, no striker to speak of - sounds a recipe for success right there doesn't it?

I dig the irony, but your point still holds like leaves on a windy day.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I never even mentioned Billy Sharp which has to be the biggest underselling in the history of undersales.

How about £400,000 for Michael Brown to Tottenham, a few months after this:

 

[Guesty]

To be fair Bergen, Brown was absolutely dreadful for the first half of his final season before we flogged him.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I dig the irony, but your point still holds like leaves on a windy day.

How would you have plugged the £10 million hole in the accounts?

It was sarcasm BTW, not irony...

 

[alcoblade]

But there you go, YOU believe people are barrel scraping but you laid a gauntlet down to name 10 players. I sat there for 10 minutes and put that list together..

If anyone could be arsed, they could create a list of 1,000 players. It wouldn 't mean they were sold cheaply. I've knocked off several from your list (going back 30 years but struggling to get to 10) for the reasons stated, but gone on to explain the futility of it as there's no definition of cheap / given away (I appreciate it was me that opened the can of worms).

I don't, for expample, accept that Darius Henderson was given away. I've said why. I think you are taking the piss with Paul Ifill, but you've gone on to make the case that we overpaid for him, which is different. I thought we'd got £800K for Ifill, which is actually a case of us having someone's pants down. Also on the comedy front, didn't Mel Eves leave for Gillingham?

You don't accept my rebuttals, that's fair enough. But, from my perspective, you are barrel scraping.

UTB

 

[FleaPitBlade]

I don't have a problem with selling players as long as the following rules are applied:

a) we get the best price we possibly can
and b) the money we get for them is invested in replacements

Without the above two criteria we slowly but surely get worse, as we have done over the last 6 years or so.

We have a situation now where the largest percentage of any incoming monies has to service a debt and that is probably because we didn't stick to rule b) above and instead threw money away on any manner of other things which didn't provide the returns (or if they did they were trousered by another company [person]).

 

[alcoblade]

I don't have a problem with selling players as long as the following rules are applied:

a) we get the best price we possibly can
and b) the money we get for them is invested in replacements

Without the above two criteria we slowly but surely get worse, as we have done over the last 6 years or so.

We have a situation now where the largest percentage of any incoming monies has to service a debt and that is probably because we didn't stick to rule b) above and instead threw money away on any manner of other things which didn't provide the returns (or if they did they were trousered by another company [person]).

It's a £20M+ wagebill for several years an pie in the sky business ventures that's led to the debt problem. There will be no other third division clubs, and few second division clubs that have taken as much in in trasfer fees as us in recent years.

UTB

 

[Micalijo]

If anyone could be arsed, they could create a list of 1,000 players. It wouldn 't mean they were sold cheaply. I've knocked off several from your list (going back 30 years but struggling to get to 10) for the reasons stated, but gone on to explain the futility of it as there's no definition of cheap / given away (I appreciate it was me that opened the can of worms).

I don't, for expample, accept that Darius Henderson was given away. I've said why. I think you are taking the piss with Paul Ifill, but you've gone on to make the case that we overpaid for him, which is different. I thought we'd got £800K for Ifill, which is actually a case of us having someone's pants down. Also on the comedy front, didn't Mel Eves leave for Gillingham?

You don't accept my rebuttals, that's fair enough. But, from my perspective, you are barrel scraping.

UTB

I think you're being very harsh on Ifill who for me played a more than decent role in our promotion.

 

[diplomat]

Indeed, Ifill scored 9 or 10 goals and was top assist merchant by some marjin.

He was spectacularly erratic in the process mind.

 

[raul]

I'd love someone as shit as Ifill now.

 

[alcoblade]

I think you're being very harsh on Ifill who for me played a more than decent role in our promotion.

Actually, I liked him too..... But for the sake of this debate I was trying to put myself in the minds of what I remember of the majority, and also view what he went on to do afterwards - which was surely sweet FA? So considering we got a reported £800K for him, I'd make him a terrible example of us "giving players away".

UTB

 

[Fiery Blade]

Actually, I liked him too..... But for the sake of this debate I was trying to put myself in the minds of what I remember of the majority, and also view what he went on to do afterwards - which was surely sweet FA? So considering we got a reported £800K for him, I'd make him a terrible example of us "giving players away".

 

[Fiery Blade]

Bloody Hell - Alco and me liking the same player !

Cannot get my breath!

 

[Bladesway]

How would you have plugged the £10 million hole in the accounts?

It was sarcasm BTW, not irony...

I find your sarcasm ironic considering.

You see, there you go moving the goalposts. I wasn't aware at the end of the play off season there was a £10m hole in the accounts to fill. But to enlighten you, had I been in charge we wouldn't have gotten here in the first place. I wouldn't have employed Robson and I would have sacked Warnock before he had chance to make a horlicks of the Premiership season. Had we gotten relegated I also wouldn't have changed by business plan from one that worked to one of a drunken gambler in a casino.

Is that your question answered?

 

[Revolution]

Think about the position we were in when he was sold. We'd lost the playoff final, mccabe i'm sure would have had someone assess the teams chances of getting promoted the following season, and the answer would have been 'Not fucking likely'.

McCabe's Pavlovian response every time we have lost a playoff final is to get rid of our best players. Contrast Huddersfield, who kept Rhodes and reaped the rewards. McCabe would have sold him the year before.

 

[Bladesway]

If anyone could be arsed, they could create a list of 1,000 players. It wouldn 't mean they were sold cheaply. I've knocked off several from your list (going back 30 years but struggling to get to 10) for the reasons stated, but gone on to explain the futility of it as there's no definition of cheap / given away (I appreciate it was me that opened the can of worms).

I don't, for expample, accept that Darius Henderson was given away. I've said why. I think you are taking the piss with Paul Ifill, but you've gone on to make the case that we overpaid for him, which is different. I thought we'd got £800K for Ifill, which is actually a case of us having someone's pants down. Also on the comedy front, didn't Mel Eves leave for Gillingham?

You don't accept my rebuttals, that's fair enough. But, from my perspective, you are barrel scraping.

UTB

So the pint you were offering was unwinnable?

 

[Houso]

On the Ifill front, around the time at which we sold him he was lambasted as being an absolute waste of a wage and nary anyone thought he had any role at the club. And at that point he WAS very poor, but there's an awful lot of revisionism going now to make a point.

I'm looking forward to 2017 when we've just sold George Willis and everyone claims they were fans of Monty and he was sold off cheap...

 

[Bladesway]

On the Ifill front, around the time at which we sold him he was lambasted as being an absolute waste of a wage and nary anyone thought he had any role at the club. And at that point he WAS very poor, but there's an awful lot of revisionism going now to make a point.

I'm looking forward to 2017 when we've just sold George Willis and everyone claims they were fans of Monty and he was sold off cheap...

How many games did he play for us in the Premiership season?

 

[Houso]

How many games did he play for us in the Premiership season?

A handful I believe. Your point?

 

[Bladesway]

As a player who was one of our leading goalscorers and our leading assistmaker of the season it didn't take him long to become a bag of crap did it?

 

[Pinchy]

On the Ifill front, around the time at which we sold him he was lambasted as being an absolute waste of a wage and nary anyone thought he had any role at the club. And at that point he WAS very poor, but there's an awful lot of revisionism going now to make a point.

I'm looking forward to 2017 when we've just sold George Willis and everyone claims they were fans of Monty and he was sold off cheap...

Everyone?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I find your sarcasm ironic considering.

You see, there you go moving the goalposts. I wasn't aware at the end of the play off season there was a £10m hole in the accounts to fill. But to enlighten you, had I been in charge we wouldn't have gotten here in the first place. I wouldn't have employed Robson and I would have sacked Warnock before he had chance to make a horlicks of the Premiership season. Had we gotten relegated I also wouldn't have changed by business plan from one that worked to one of a drunken gambler in a casino.

Is that your question answered?

You weren't aware that at the end of the play-off season, the parachute payments were running out?

No goalposts been shifted there. The point is those transfers don't exist in a vacuum. Cash flow is very important to a business, and sometimes selling for less money now is more beneficial to a business than holding on to something and selling it for more later.

All the rest of your post (robson aside) is all very well with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Darren]

If anyone could be arsed, they could create a list of 1,000 players. It wouldn 't mean they were sold cheaply. I've knocked off several from your list (going back 30 years but struggling to get to 10) for the reasons stated, but gone on to explain the futility of it as there's no definition of cheap / given away (I appreciate it was me that opened the can of worms).

I don't, for expample, accept that Darius Henderson was given away. I've said why. I think you are taking the piss with Paul Ifill, but you've gone on to make the case that we overpaid for him, which is different. I thought we'd got £800K for Ifill, which is actually a case of us having someone's pants down. Also on the comedy front, didn't Mel Eves leave for Gillingham?

You don't accept my rebuttals, that's fair enough. But, from my perspective, you are barrel scraping.

UTB

Mel Eves is very much barrel scraping. We got him on a short term contract in Dec 84, he scored loads of goals and was widely rumoured to be off to Hudders in March 85 when his contract was up because we couldn't match their wages. Surprise, surprise, we did and we gave him a contract to the end of 85-86.

Eves promptly got injured in April 85, was still injured at the start of the following season and when he had recoverd was way down the strking pecking order after Edwards, Withe, Philliskirk etc. He got 1 goal in 85-86 and we freed him at the end of the season whem, as you say, he joined Gillingham. He managed to play acouple more seasons in the bottom two divisions with the Galaticos of Gillingham and Mansfield before dropping into non-league.

Yes, Mel Eves, we really someone who we gave away....

 

[LoughboroBlade]

How many games did he play for us in the Premiership season?

I don't think it was many. Think he started vs Liverpool, but can't recall many more starts. I thought his sudden fall from favour was a bit harsh on him to be honest - though Gillespie had stepped up his performances somewhat. Once CKR came in, Ifill was suddenly 3rd choice for the right wing.

 

[Pinchy]

Mel Eves is very much barrel scraping. We got him on a short term contract in Dec 84, he scored loads of goals and was widely rumoured to be off to Hudders in March 85 when his contract was up because we couldn't match their wages. Surprise, surprise, we did and we gave him a contract to the end of 85-86.

Eves promptly got injured in April 85, was still injured at the start of the following season and when he had recoverd was way down the strking pecking order after Edwards, Withe, Philliskirk etc. He got 1 goal in 85-86 and we freed him at the end of the season whem, as you say, he joined Gillingham. He managed to play acouple more seasons in the bottom two divisions with the Galaticos of Gillingham and Mansfield before dropping into non-league.

Yes, Mel Eves, we really someone who we gave away....

My word, he was good when we first signed him. He had a touch of real quality. A particular memory is a cracking goal against Dirty, Cheating, Bribing Leeds at the Kop end.

Sadly, he was almost crocked by the time we got him. He certainly wasn't a give-away.

 

[Houso]

Everyone?

Okay, almost everyone...

 

[Darren]

My word, he was good when we first signed him. He had a touch of real quality. A particular memory is a cracking goal against Dirty, Cheating, Bribing Leeds at the Kop end.

Sadly, he was almost crocked by the time we got him. He certainly wasn't a give-away.

Oh yes, I well remember that Leeds goals - he was the main catalyst ig getting us into a relatively safe position by the time he got injured in April - 8 goals in around 15 games.

 

[Houso]

As a player who was one of our leading goalscorers and our leading assistmaker of the season it didn't take him long to become a bag of crap did it?

Neill Collins was our worst player a couple of seasons ago, last season he was possibly our best.

It's funny what a change in division will do to a player.

I don't think Ifill was that bad in the Prem, but at the point at which he was sold, it's safe to say he wasn't a crowd favourite... AND he was third in line in his position.