George Long

[Grecian2000]

We've got some posters who despite spending their lifetime slagging off some of our players, still claim it's bad business when we sell them.

Indeed.

I don't think Pinchy will be along anytime soon to suggest we should have squeezed out a few dollars from our Aussie heroes for taking his nemesis though!

I always find these debates slightly difficult. It matters not a jot to me what happens to a players career once he's left the Lane. He might do a Lee Morris or a Kyle Walker, but there's nothing to say the same would have happened if they'd stayed put. To me a decision is judged on how it affected our team rather than what that player became afterwards. For instance, Brian Deane is not thought of in the same regard anywhere other than BDTBL but his leaving (twice) had severe detrimental affects on the team so can be judged as catastrophic (especially getting relegated the season after that first sale).
We might not a have "given players away" based on their subsequent efforts but the drip, drip effect of team weakening has resulted in years of regression.

 

[JohnDenver]

Harsh on Morris, John. It was injuries, not a bad attitude, the crippled his career.

I did actually edit the post to remove mention of Lee's dodgy legs. It just made the sentence flow better.

Well, that and the stories I'd heard about how Morris treated his injuries with ale.

 

[metalblade]

I get it entirely. As you say, Spurs took a risk, and as Balham Blade says he could have been the next Lee Morris (who do you think got the better of that deal by the way, the "clowns" at the Lane or Premier League Derby?). This time the risk paid off for them. There was no guarantee that it would. Given Walker's pedigree in 2009 (an undistinguished loan spell at Northampton, an undistingusihed debut at Orient followed by 5 good games which could well have been flukes), you would have thought a Morris outcome much more likely than him becoming an England player.

And if you think "everyone else" could see the potential of Walker in 2009, why was there no bidding war for his services then?

No bidding war Darren because as everyone knows SUFC always accept the first bid no matter how derisory, and no you still don't understand Spurs were buying into potential. Best we agree to differ, this has been done by others times over what I will say is Blades who accept the mediocre deserve mediocrity and that is the attitude that has for around 50+ years held this club back, that is why we have only won a 4th div championship since 1925, that is why this club will never win owt.

 

[Darren]

No bidding war Darren because as everyone knows SUFC always accept the first bid no matter how derisory, and no you still don't understand Spurs were buying into potential. Best we agree to differ, this has been done by others times over what I will say is Blades who accept the mediocre deserve mediocrity and that is the attitude that has for around 50+ years held this club back, that is why we have only won a 4th div championship since 1925, that is why this club will never win owt.

That doesn't even make any sense on your terms.

If "everyone knows" SUFC will accept the first bid and "everyone knew" how great Walker would be, we must have had a load of clubs offering to buy him for £3m. Presumably, given that SUFC are so hopeless, you think we just picked a bid at random and did not seek to play off the bidding clubs against each other and that Spurs were the winner of this lucky dip.

Do you really think that's how the top bods at SUFC work? If you do, how do you think they manage to get out of bed and get dressed in the morning?

 

[Balham]

Still don't get it do you all, Spurs were not interested in a 18 yr old full back with 5 games under his belt they saw like everyone else did (apart from the clowns at the lane) a kid with the potential to be a future England player, Spurs were willing to pay for that potential and take a calculated risk. They now have an England full back for a snip we got Nyron Nosworthy

I agree to an extent. I accepted that United needed to sell Kyle Naughton but would rather we sold Naughton on his own to Everton (heavily linked at the time) for £5m rather than both to Spurs. However, what you and I will never know is what our financial situation was at the time - maybe we needed £8m to avoid penalties from the banks?

Wasn't there also quite a bit at the time from people who knew Walker who said that he wanted to leave to further his career? I might be wrong on that point.

No bidding war Darren because as everyone knows SUFC always accept the first bid no matter how derisory, and no you still don't understand Spurs were buying into potential. Best we agree to differ, this has been done by others times over what I will say is Blades who accept the mediocre deserve mediocrity and that is the attitude that has for around 50+ years held this club back, that is why we have only won a 4th div championship since 1925, that is why this club will never win owt.

We don't "always accept the first bid no matter how derisory". Stephen Quinn last year is a good example: we got another season out of him where at times he was excellent.

I don't get it Metal - I don't think I've ever seen you post anything positive. We are where we are, there's nothing you or I can do about it but get behind the team.

 

[alcoblade]

Indeed.

I don't think Pinchy will be along anytime soon to suggest we should have squeezed out a few dollars from our Aussie heroes for taking his nemesis though!

I always find these debates slightly difficult. It matters not a jot to me what happens to a players career once he's left the Lane. He might do a Lee Morris or a Kyle Walker, but there's nothing to say the same would have happened if they'd stayed put. To me a decision is judged on how it affected our team rather than what that player became afterwards. For instance, Brian Deane is not thought of in the same regard anywhere other than BDTBL but his leaving (twice) had severe detrimental affects on the team so can be judged as catastrophic (especially getting relegated the season after that first sale).
We might not a have "given players away" based on their subsequent efforts but the drip, drip effect of team weakening has resulted in years of regression.

You're spot on.

Mind you, I don't blame the immediate decisions, more the situations that brought them about. I can accept the recent offlaodoing of players as abolutley necessary. It doesn't anger me. What angers me was McCabe's running of the club in the previous years that brought us to the position where the sales were necessary.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

I don't get it Metal. We are where we are, there's nothing you can do about it but sit on your sofa, moan, and demand others act

I think you meant this.



UTB

 

[moDtheGod]

Darren, why do you bother with these arguments? You're never going to move from your position anyway. Where's the fun for you?

As it happens, you're completely right in this thread and only a moron would oppose the view that Walker was "let go" for peanuts, but I do wonder why you bother sometimes.

 

[Darren]

Darren, why do you bother with these arguments? You're never going to move from your position anyway. Where's the fun for you?

As it happens, you're completely right in this thread and only a moron would oppose the view that Walker was "let go" for peanuts, but I do wonder why you bother sometimes.

To quote Basil Fawlty: just my way of getting through the day, the Samaritans were engaged....

 

[blade too long]

8m at that time for kyle duo was a great deal , no one knew how good Walker was going to be, hed done well in only 2 championship games for us but to get 3 million, he played well in the 26 back on loan but to get 3m on the basis of 2 games , unheard of

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Will be gone by January if he contiously plays this well. I hate to say it but a bigger club will come along and snap him up, and typically we will sell him for a fraction of what he'll be worth in a few years time.

This is the biggest myth attached to Sheffield United, IMHO.
"Typically".......so, out of the thousands of players sold, who do you think we've given way. If you break 10 I'll buy you a pint. ... UTB

To be fair Alco, you moved the goalposts from what Blade Nath originally said.
He didn't say we "gave players away", he said we "sold them for a fraction of what they will/would be worth later"
On the original basis, I would suggest the following meet the criteria:-

Walker, Lowton, Quinn, Sharp, Jagielka, Britton, Kenny, Kelly, Derry, Dellas, Mendonca, Beagrie, Marsden, Cockerill, Edwards

 

[alcoblade]

To be fair Alco, you moved the goalposts from what Blade Nath originally said.
He didn't say we "gave players away", he said we "sold them for a fraction of what they will/would be worth later"
On the original basis, I would suggest the following meet the criteria:-

Walker, Lowton, Quinn, Sharp, Jagielka, Britton, Kenny, Kelly, Derry, Dellas, Mendonca, Beagrie, Marsden, Cockerill, Edwards

Fair enough. But on that criteria, it's probably fair to say that (age aside) much more than than 50% of all players sold will be worth more later.

As I've said previously, the fact that a player who only signed a contract based on the insertion of a sell on clause is used to pad out the list says to me that people are padding out the list...... Kenny meets that criteria too, I think.

Of your list I'd say that Sharp and Mendonca are the obvious give aways. I can't remember enough of Cockerill and Edwards transfers. Britton was considered wank and his failure siad more about our style than business acumen. Same for Dellas.

Anyway, it's been done to death now.

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

I don't agree about Walker. I think that (as JD) says below Morris and Woodhouse both looked better players than he did at the same age.

I also recall that when he was with us on loan the following season and played 30ish games, whilst he was obviously a decent second tier player, no-one was saying "wow that player is something else, he will definitely play for England".

This was posted on the 12th of November 2009:

For me Walker still has things to learn, and I've blamed him for a few of the goals we've conceded this season. But his potential is absolutely fantastic. He has got all the right attributes, and can be a world class right back if he wants to, and if he's coached and managed right. I will be very surprised if he hasn't played for England within a couple of seasons.

His England debut was in November 2011.

 

[Darren]

This was posted on the 12th of November 2009:



His England debut was in November 2011.

Ok, 1 person said it...

 

[Revolution]

8m at that time for kyle duo was a great deal , no one knew how good Walker was going to be, hed done well in only 2 championship games for us but to get 3 million, he played well in the 26 back on loan but to get 3m on the basis of 2 games , unheard of

We wasted the money and were relegated within 2 seasons, partly because of an error prone defence of loanees.

It was a disaster.

 

[alcoblade]

We wasted the money and were relegated within 2 seasons, partly because of an error prone defence of loanees.

It was a disaster.

Agreed, a disaster. As I've said elsewhere, it's another case of not these actual sales annoying me, but the previous poor busniesss management that made these sales inevitable.

UTB

 

[Pinchy]

Ok, 1 person said it...

I knew he'd play for England but didn't bother to mention it, since I have not the slightest interest in that particular team. Do I get half a point?

 

[Bladesway]

This is the biggest myth attached to Sheffield United, IMHO.

"Typically".......so, out of the thousands of players sold, who do you think we've given way. If you break 10 I'll buy you a pint. ...

UTB

Keith Edwards, Tri Dellas, Graham Stuart, Jan Aage Fjortoft, Glenn Cockerill, Brian Deane, Graham Stuart, Steven Quinn, David Goldsworth, Carl Tiler, Radius Henderson, Paul Ifill, Alex sabella. Just chucking some into the fire off tye top of my bonce.

 

[raul]

If we're chucking stuff into fires - Craig Beattie.

 

[Bladesway]

Mel Eves

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Fuck it, i might as well stick my oar in.


If someone can point me in the direction of another championship right back that was sold for £3m after 5 games i'd be stunned.

He may well be worth £20m now, but that's only because he's been in the premier league for a season and a half. Championship right backs don't make shit loads of money when they're sold.

Think about the position we were in when he was sold. We'd lost the playoff final, mccabe i'm sure would have had someone assess the teams chances of getting promoted the following season, and the answer would have been 'Not fucking likely'.

Now contrary to what some people might think, £3m is not chump change. it's not the kind of money you would want to go double or quits on if you already owe £30m+, yet that's precisely what a fair amount of people would want mccabe to do.

 

[metalblade]

Fuck it, i might as well stick my oar in.


If someone can point me in the direction of another championship right back that was sold for £3m after 5 games i'd be stunned.

He may well be worth £20m now, but that's only because he's been in the premier league for a season and a half. Championship right backs don't make shit loads of money when they're sold.

Think about the position we were in when he was sold. We'd lost the playoff final, mccabe i'm sure would have had someone assess the teams chances of getting promoted the following season, and the answer would have been 'Not fucking likely'.

Now contrary to what some people might think, £3m is not chump change. it's not the kind of money you would want to go double or quits on if you already owe £30m+, yet that's precisely what a fair amount of people would want mccabe to do.

Lowton if you believe what those wearing rose tinted specs tell you ...................... Stunned ????
not 5 games but only half the player

 

[Highbury_Blade]

L

Lowton if you believe what those wearing rose tinted specs tell you ...................... Stunned ????

Well since you can't read properly, i'll spell it out for you. Lowton had played nearly 2 full seasons for us when he was sold.

 

[grafikhaus]

Fuck it, i might as well stick my oar in.


If someone can point me in the direction of another championship right back that was sold for £3m after 5 games i'd be stunned.

He may well be worth £20m now, but that's only because he's been in the premier league for a season and a half. Championship right backs don't make shit loads of money when they're sold.

Think about the position we were in when he was sold. We'd lost the playoff final, mccabe i'm sure would have had someone assess the teams chances of getting promoted the following season, and the answer would have been 'Not fucking likely'.

Now contrary to what some people might think, £3m is not chump change. it's not the kind of money you would want to go double or quits on if you already owe £30m+, yet that's precisely what a fair amount of people would want mccabe to do.

Absolutely correct, HB. KW played (I think) his fifth game at Wembley v. Burnley. You could tell he was the real deal and to imagine United could have held on to him would have been cruelty.

Just rejoice (?) that United's system has produced such a rich crop over the years. Remind me. When was the last time a Wendy player came through the ranks and played for England?

 

[Pinchy]

Absolutely correct, HB. KW played (I think) his fifth game at Wembley v. Burnley. You could tell he was the real deal and to imagine United could have held on to him would have been cruelty.

Just rejoice

Have we sunk The Belgrano again?

 

[alcoblade]

Keith Edwards, Tri Dellas, Graham Stuart, Jan Aage Fjortoft, Glenn Cockerill, Brian Deane, Graham Stuart, Steven Quinn, David Goldsworth, Carl Tiler, Radius Henderson, Paul Ifill, Alex sabella. Just chucking some into the fire off tye top of my bonce.

Have we turned this into a list of players who've just played for us?

To be fair, I remember the corus of disapproval when Paul Iffil left, followed by the pain when he went on to win the World Cup. Wibble.



UTB

 

[Bladesway]

Have we turned this into a list of players who've just played for us?

To be fair, I remember the corus of disapproval when Paul Iffil left, followed by the pain when he went on to win the World Cup. Wibble.



UTB

Not what you said in your initial post though is it Alco. You asked for a list of people who we undersold and that is my list. Edwards went to Hull for nothing early in his career and we had to buy him back. Cockerill went to Southampton and onto far greater things but we just let him go rather than got top dollar for him. Tri Dellas left for peanuts because he was homesick apparently. Paul Ifill went for nothing if memory serves me because his face didn't fit, even though he had a great assists record the season before. Mel Eves left for buttons. Darius Henderson went for free because we couldn' t afford his wages, even though he actually took a pay cut to join Milwall. I never even mentioned Billy Sharp which has to be the biggest underselling in the history of undersales.

The question you asked was who did we undersell. You haven't given a constructive answer to any of my suggestions. Ball in your court I would suggest.

Players we HAVE got good value for by the way:-

Michael Tonge, Lee Morris, Rob Hulse, Jon Stead, Tony Agana (thank you Warnock), Vas Borbokis.

Jagielka I have sympathy with the club because had we stayed up we would have kept him and he had a release clause which was signed in goodwill to keep him previously.

Fuck it, i might as well stick my oar in.


If someone can point me in the direction of another championship right back that was sold for £3m after 5 games i'd be stunned.

He may well be worth £20m now, but that's only because he's been in the premier league for a season and a half. Championship right backs don't make shit loads of money when they're sold.

Think about the position we were in when he was sold. We'd lost the playoff final, mccabe i'm sure would have had someone assess the teams chances of getting promoted the following season, and the answer would have been 'Not fucking likely'.

Now contrary to what some people might think, £3m is not chump change. it's not the kind of money you would want to go double or quits on if you already owe £30m+, yet that's precisely what a fair amount of people would want mccabe to do.

Now who is making up stories to suit? Why would McCabe had someone to come in and assess our chances of promotion? All the press had us down as favourites to go back up that season so your "not fucking likely" comment is total and utter horseshit.

It wasn't the worst deal of all time granted but (and its a big one) if you believe that your team has the chance of promotion you pull out the stops to keep your best players. If you don't why the fuck do you have the manager in place in the first place? Blackwell offered his resignation on live television, he could have got rid of Blackwell and the players if he didn't think we could get promotion. Also, if you believe in this wonderful academy brining the riches through and the players being brilliant, you hold onto the bloke for another season don't you? This I believe is the entire crux of the issue with many fans. Van Persie stays with Arsenal another year because they want to give it another shot, Fabregas did the same. Ronaldo stays another year at Man U before moving on for even more money than he had previously. We let players go at the very first sign of interest. We are the club who put out on a first date. Portsmouth are a better bet than Sheffield United when it comes to keeping hold of players and yet they are in administration.

 

[beightonblade]

The hurt i felt when TC was sold will never be matched again.

 

[alcoblade]

Not what you said in your initial post though is it Alco. You asked for a list of people who we undersold and that is my list.

But here's my problem with your list (or request for me to break it down) - take Henderson. I wouldn't accept that he was undersold. If we are paying a player £15K per week that's only worth £5K per week, then what transfer fee should we expect? I wouldn't class Henderson as bad business. Same with Quinn.

Paul Iffil was surely just crap. Mel Eves - just can't remember but I have a feeling of barrel scraping there.

Either way, the myth is that we "give all out players away". My general point is that it's a struggle to break 10 names (and I believe people are scraping the barrel to hit that number) and given the amount of transfer activity and hence number of opportunities, the stats don't back up the myth that "we give everyone away".

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

dp