Frees and loans

[Snowflake]

I do wish the club would stop confusing input with output.

Putting in a bid or negotiating with a player is just input. To broadcast you’re doing that shouldn’t placate anyone.

Personally us trying isn’t something that I think any fan should be placated by or impressed by.

It’s output that counts I.e. what you actually achieve rather than the effort you extol that counts. So far diddly squat. But if your plan is likely to take time then don’t at the same time be saying how you want players in early. It’s basically only Hecky and Bettis now so they can save themselves a lot of grief by being on the same page.

If we aren’t looking to spend fees then we aren’t getting players early. If we are looking at frees but not wanting to take on big wages or big signing on fees then we also aren’t signing early. If we’re looking at loans once PL teams have done their business or frees who are considering their options then we may as well be up front with it.

We’ll just about get away with this during the 22/23 season as we still have plenty in contract. Unless we renew though, we aren’t going to be replacing Fleck or Norwood or Sharp in the last knockings of the window next season. So the approach has to change and as I alluded we have very few mid twenty players to replace the 30-somethings. It’s unrealistic to expect the team not to suffer if an experienced pro leaves only to be replaced by an U-19 player.

The last point depends on how good the youngster has become before the experience leaves.
I agree it is a risk if we are looking at more than three youngsters being part of the immediate future.

 

[robbiez666]

I do wish the club would stop confusing input with output.

Putting in a bid or negotiating with a player is just input. To broadcast you’re doing that shouldn’t placate anyone.

Personally us trying isn’t something that I think any fan should be placated by or impressed by.

It’s output that counts I.e. what you actually achieve rather than the effort you extol that counts. So far diddly squat. But if your plan is likely to take time then don’t at the same time be saying how you want players in early. It’s basically only Hecky and Bettis now so they can save themselves a lot of grief by being on the same page.

If we aren’t looking to spend fees then we aren’t getting players early. If we are looking at frees but not wanting to take on big wages or big signing on fees then we also aren’t signing early. If we’re looking at loans once PL teams have done their business or frees who are considering their options then we may as well be up front with it.

We’ll just about get away with this during the 22/23 season as we still have plenty in contract. Unless we renew though, we aren’t going to be replacing Fleck or Norwood or Sharp in the last knockings of the window next season. So the approach has to change and as I alluded we have very few mid twenty players to replace the 30-somethings. It’s unrealistic to expect the team not to suffer if an experienced pro leaves only to be replaced by an U-19 player.

The worry is that we'll begin next season having to replace Norwood, Sharp, Fleck, Robinson, Stevens, Osborn, Wes, McBurnie, JoC. On top of anyone else who leaves, is injured or no longer good enough.

No permanent long-term signing since summer 2020. If we don't address this and carry on with loans and short-term contracts we'll end up in a situation we can't get out of.

 

[Caseh]

How do we earn our way into things with no money

Live within our means, spend what we earn, make shrewd signings that have the potential to make money rather than lose it? basically like any other business away from Football?

Edit: This isn't me saying I'm happy with how things are going, but my complaint isn't that we're skint - It's that I think we could be spending the little money we have better.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Live within our means, spend what we earn, make shrewd signings that have the potential to make money rather than lose it? basically like any other business away from Football?

Spend what we earn? L2 it is then

 

[Caseh]

Spend what we earn? L2 it is then

You think a club that constantly gets 27k+ crowds is earning L2 levels of money? Stop with the ridiculous hyperbole ffs, it's embarrassing.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

The worry is that we'll begin next season having to replace Norwood, Sharp, Fleck, Robinson, Stevens, Osborn, Wes, McBurnie, JoC. On top of anyone else who leaves, is injured or no longer good enough.

No permanent long-term signing since summer 2020. If we don't address this and carry on with loans and short-term contracts we'll end up in a situation we can't get out of.

Agree to a degree but there’s still time to extend contracts of those we want to keep longer.

 

[robbiez666]

Agree to a degree but there’s still time to extend contracts of those we want to keep longer.

We can't just 'extend contracts' like it's some kind of magic wand. We've already triggered extensions this summer. They're basically new contracts next time round.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

We can't just 'extend contracts' like it's some kind of magic wand. We've already triggered extensions this summer. They're basically new contracts next time round.

Renegotiate is probably a better word rather than extend

 

[biggiesablade]

Live within our means, spend what we earn, make shrewd signings that have the potential to make money rather than lose it? basically like any other business away from Football?

Edit: This isn't me saying I'm happy with how things are going, but my complaint isn't that we're skint - It's that I think we could be spending the little money we have better.

We can't compete with wages with anyone because we are skint. Even Hull look like beating us to players we are after. Like it or not and I really don't like it by the way we need money chucking at us I'm afraid

 

[yorkshirecoast]

You think a club that constantly gets 27k+ crowds is earning L2 levels of money? Stop with the ridiculous hyperbole ffs, it's embarrassing.

What is embarrassing is that we do get 27k crowds but seemingly can’t compete on transfers, even those with no fee involved, with any club in the Championship, other than maybe Rotherham.

The fact is it’s extremely difficult to compete unless you have owners willing to invest. More and more clubs, many smaller than us, have billionaire owners who put money in.

This idea that we can just spend what we earn and build the team around academy players is ludicrous and a recipe for disaster.

 

[jt64]

What is embarrassing is that we do get 27k crowds but seemingly can’t compete on transfers, even those with no fee involved, with any club in the Championship, other than maybe Rotherham.

The fact is it’s extremely difficult to compete unless you have owners willing to invest. More and more clubs, many smaller than us, have billionaire owners who put money in.

This idea that we can just spend what we earn and build the team around academy players is ludicrous and a recipe for disaster.

Don't get the "no fee involved" comment as if it magically makes a difference. Free agents, as a general rule, can command higher wages. Need to look at overall cost of ownership. Assuming a four year deal, a £2m player on £15k/week costs the same as a free transfer on £25k/week - and with the way most transfers are structured, it's not even a case of needing to stump up a huge amount in advance. Nobody pays the full amount up top basically ever unless you're negotiating with a club with infinite money like City.

But your remaining points are correct. Championship clubs, as a rule, are losing a fucking fortune. You've got to be bankrolled massively if you want to be competitive, and that's either coming from Premier League TV money (assuming all the money wasn't twatted away at the time), or external investment. People can point to Wilder year 2 and some others like Huddersfield, but those are very much the exception

 

[Surrey Blade]

I don't want us throwing money at players in a desperate bid for promotion and, as a consequence, landing the club in financial difficulty. The frustration for me is how, as in 06-07, we have failed to capitalise on a short stint in the Prem. For all his wonderful work in taking the club from L1 to the top flight, CW did waste far too much money on transfers that have not worked or offered vfm. Our cupboard should not be so bare.

 

[Champagneblade]

I don't want us throwing money at players in a desperate bid for promotion and, as a consequence, landing the club in financial difficulty. The frustration for me is how, as in 06-07, we have failed to capitalise on a short stint in the Prem. For all his wonderful work in taking the club from L1 to the top flight, CW did waste far too much money on transfers that have not worked or offered vfm. Our cupboard should not be so bare.

This is the crux of it. Wasted money on transfers but also did fuck all for the infrastructure. No wonder he jumped ship.

Our Premiership legacy is high fee installments to clear the next couple of years. No upgrades of any note and probably a 50% loss on money invested in players.

Loved him to bit but you look back and he was a kid in a sweat shop. Absolutely clueless about how to spend PL money.

 

[CPB]

You know it's an interesting situation we are in transfer wise.

We don't want to lose any key assets and yet losing a Berge MIGHT mean we can spend some money on fees and enter a different market a little.

I guess when you think about the team that was successful last season we have essentially lost one player in MGW so far.
If we can use N'diaye a bit like MGW perhaps or bring in a replacement then although they aren't likely to be anything like as good as MGW we should be competitive at the right end of the table.

Where of course it could fall down in a very Sheffield united way is to lose Berge, Egan and maybe even N'Diaye towards the end of the window and we scramble around and don't replace very well.

Of recent season of teams that have been relegated from the Prem. Are we one of the first to really curb spending a great deal in the grand scheme of things as opposed to trying to buy players to bounce up?

I expected Burnley to spend very little but they are doing.

 

[S64 Blade]

What is embarrassing is that we do get 27k crowds but seemingly can’t compete on transfers, even those with no fee involved, with any club in the Championship, other than maybe Rotherham.

The fact is it’s extremely difficult to compete unless you have owners willing to invest. More and more clubs, many smaller than us, have billionaire owners who put money in.

This idea that we can just spend what we earn and build the team around academy players is ludicrous and a recipe for disaster.

You do realise that we are currently committed to paying 10/15 players at least £15k a week?

This is the reason why we aren't spending money that other clubs are, who don't have this barrier. Throw in the transfer fees from the PL, that we will still owe and you can see why our costs are already sunk.

It's still very early days yet, so let's leave it a bit until we start getting worried. It's all conjecture at this stage of the window.

 

[Netsix_and_chill]

Conjecture is all we have at the moment to pass the time.

My concern is that the decision has been made to sell and so no investment will be incoming, we sell the assets late in the window with no time to replace anyone. By the time the window closes the season will be starting to take shape with a good number of games already played.

To have my moan about it we do seem to be the skintest parachute team ever, all the reasoned excuses about living within our means also apply to the other teams in similar positions to us and they do seem to be able to scrape enough money together to compete on decent transfers.

 

[Toronto Blade fan]

We are literally one or two injuries away from a disaster. If one of Berge or N'Daiye go down.... We be fucked.
Not bringing in any permanent players is going to be our downfall. With about five players contracts ending at the end of this year.... Leads me to question whether or not we have a plan for next year.
I hate to say it but this recruitment team needs to go.

 

[Yogi]

We are literally one or two injuries away from a disaster. If one of Berge or N'Daiye go down.... We be fucked.
Not bringing in any permanent players is going to be our downfall. With about five players contracts ending at the end of this year.... Leads me to question whether or not we have a plan for next year.
I hate to say it but this recruitment team needs to go.

Don’t think it’s the recruitment team Toronto they’ve got some fish and a few loaves of bread and are being asked to feed the 5000 unless they’re the second coming we’re going to go hungry.

 

[CPB]

Don’t think it’s the recruitment team Toronto they’ve got some fish and a few loaves of bread and are being asked to feed the 5000 unless they’re the second coming we’re going to go hungry.

It's likely not the recruitment team but the plan from above.

Hecky's done well but I fear what this "new strategy" we announced on his appointment meant.
I can understand not wanting to go the way of a Derby County etc. where we break the EFL spending rules if we don't go up. And I also think being sustainable is also good (If this is true).
However at some point clubs have to spend some money to achieve a promotion or success. We have a good academy but it's not grinding out first team players every season. We don't also have the scouting network to get the up and coming players at a snip like say Brentford do.

IF this season ends up being frees and loans, come next season if we don't achieve promotion this model will need to start to change.
At this level we are not a small club, we should be able to have some clout once the wage bill has reduced. What confuses me slightly is that the wages had relegation reduction clauses and we've now got a fair chunk off that bill from 12 months ago.

 

[247Blade]

Has it become rely on u23s ... ffs what a nightmare UTD are in .... im really not looking forward to 1st August

 

[Yogi]

It's likely not the recruitment team but the plan from above.

Hecky's done well but I fear what this "new strategy" we announced on his appointment meant.
I can understand not wanting to go the way of a Derby County etc. where we break the EFL spending rules if we don't go up. And I also think being sustainable is also good (If this is true).
However at some point clubs have to spend some money to achieve a promotion or success. We have a good academy but it's not grinding out first team players every season. We don't also have the scouting network to get the up and coming players at a snip like say Brentford do.

IF this season ends up being frees and loans, come next season if we don't achieve promotion this model will need to start to change.
At this level we are not a small club, we should be able to have some clout once the wage bill has reduced. What confuses me slightly is that the wages had relegation reduction clauses and we've now got a fair chunk off that bill from 12 months ago.

It’s not a sustainable model you’re right the rebuild has to start at some point we can’t keep patching it up and pushing it down the line but it seems we don’t have the cash to build a new foundation

 

[CPB]

It’s not a sustainable model you’re right the rebuild has to start at some point we can’t keep patching it up and pushing it down the line but it seems we don’t have the cash to build a new foundation

Exactly. At some point we should do though.

We still don't actually know what this summer will bring recruitment or departure wise too.

We could be pleasantly surprised or utterly distraught.

 

[robbiez666]

Don’t think it’s the recruitment team Toronto they’ve got some fish and a few loaves of bread and are being asked to feed the 5000 unless they’re the second coming we’re going to go hungry.

I do question who we're targeting though. We seem to waste so much time chasing after unrealistic players with a very low probability of success. It has been a long time since we've signed someone from the lower leagues who has had any sort of impact. Lunny, maybe? Why are we not looking for players who we can afford and who will come in league 1 and 2. I have no issue trying to sign long odds players but we seem to think we can and we almost always can't.

 

[Yogi]

I do question who we're targeting though. We seem to waste so much time chasing after unrealistic players with a very low probability of success. It has been a long time since we've signed someone from the lower leagues who has had any sort of impact. Lunny, maybe? Why are we not looking for players who we can afford and who will come in league 1 and 2. I have no issue trying to sign long odds players but we seem to think we can and we almost always can't.

I’d agree but it seems barring one potential exception we’re not going to be paying fees if we want the cream of the league one crop we’ll have to pay fees. It seems we’re in limbo until something happens to change our financial situation.

 

[robbiez666]

I’d agree but it seems barring one potential exception we’re not going to be paying fees if we want the cream of the league one crop we’ll have to pay fees. It seems we’re in limbo until something happens to change our financial situation.

Again, I don't get it. Say with only have £1 million to spend on fees, why spend it on one player.

I'll bet you now, when we don't sign them, that £1million pounds will disappear.

There are frees to be had in all divisions. Bristol city signed the league 2 player of the season.

 

[Grizzly blade]

I will Chuck something else into the melting pot as well….not only are we looking at free’s and loans….we are looking at free’s that won’t get into the team at half the clubs in this league, and are substantially cheaper in wages.
We allegedly had offers in for players to get our business done early….yeah…course we did!! Offering miles less than others in wages no doubt, so we’re never in with a shout.
Plus they try to curry favour with the fans by releasing another snippet…we have a bid in worth 7 figures for a foreign player….ooooohhhhh….provided that player isnt signed by the club that has first option, and assuming nobody else bids for this mystery player!!

Same fucking mistakes that have been here for 3 years….miss our main targets, end up with lesser alternatives and pay miles over the odds as the delays caused by our own incompetence make us sitting ducks to be taken to the cleaners as we become desperate.
Where’s the plan? Surely there is one, and it’s pretty clear that it revolves around selling some players before we can even think about bringing someone in. And this is the kicker…I half applaud the club for knocking back low offers and holding out for the right money, but the fact this owner lacks the financial clout to loan the club the money to buy the players early until we sell that player is the killer. We’ve literally got the opposite of McCabe….he loaned the club plenty but sold players too soon.

This takeover is not going anywhere, and seems very convenient as it’s a nice cover that fans will accept for not spending money, when the truth is he’s not frigging got any to loan us!
But it’s ok, we can design our own shirts with our new sponsor Errea with our other potless chums in the United world fallacy,
Season prediction- 15th.
Next season- relegated if this shower of shite are still running the show

 

[Champagneblade]

I will Chuck something else into the melting pot as well….not only are we looking at free’s and loans….we are looking at free’s that won’t get into the team at half the clubs in this league, and are substantially cheaper in wages.
We allegedly had offers in for players to get our business done early….yeah…course we did!! Offering miles less than others in wages no doubt, so we’re never in with a shout.
Plus they try to curry favour with the fans by releasing another snippet…we have a bid in worth 7 figures for a foreign player….ooooohhhhh….provided that player isnt signed by the club that has first option, and assuming nobody else bids for this mystery player!!

Same fucking mistakes that have been here for 3 years….miss our main targets, end up with lesser alternatives and pay miles over the odds as the delays caused by our own incompetence make us sitting ducks to be taken to the cleaners as we become desperate.
Where’s the plan? Surely there is one, and it’s pretty clear that it revolves around selling some players before we can even think about bringing someone in. And this is the kicker…I half applaud the club for knocking back low offers and holding out for the right money, but the fact this owner lacks the financial clout to loan the club the money to buy the players early until we sell that player is the killer. We’ve literally got the opposite of McCabe….he loaned the club plenty but sold players too soon.

This takeover is not going anywhere, and seems very convenient as it’s a nice cover that fans will accept for not spending money, when the truth is he’s not frigging got any to loan us!
But it’s ok, we can design our own shirts with our new sponsor Errea with our other potless chums in the United world fallacy,
Season prediction- 15th.
Next season- relegated if this shower of shite are still running the show

Clearly burnt by Wilder’s poor Premiership recruitment legacy, we’ve clearly embraced the mantra “can’t make bad signings if you don’t make any signings!”

 

[Grizzly blade]

Clearly burnt by Wilder’s poor Premiership recruitment legacy, we’ve clearly embraced the mantra “can’t make bad signings if you don’t make any signings!”

They share the blame for premier recruitment, for me it was clear from the off the plan was to yo-yo for a few seasons with gradual improvement and adding a couple of big spends every other year.
Strikers killed us, you simply cannot pick up strikers of the quality needed paying top end championship fees and salary. Plus needing to replace the L1 players like Clarke etc with suitable decent squad players. Those squad players like Bogle/Lowe are now being talked about as top end champ/prem players yet 12 months ago were held up as huge expensive failures.

Unlucky with Berge and O Connell….but we go around in circles.
I stand by my point this owner and club board are sending us back to where we were when he arrived. He needs to find investment sharpish or sell to a realistic owner with the contacts/funds to prop the club up and sub it the money when needed. Not saying Chuck millions at it, can still be run sustainably by picking up the right players for decent fees at the right time and moving them on.

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

Our window will go something like this:

Berge is finally sold on the last day of the window
We are too late to be able to use any of the Berge money for new players
We start the season with a weaker squad

 

[Booker4]

Our window will go something like this:

Berge is finally sold on the last day of the window
We are too late to be able to use any of the Berge money for new players
We start the season with a weaker squad

If Berge does go I think it may be towards the start of the season but I can see it being before the last few weeks of the season as his agent will be doing everything he can to drum up interest. If it is true that Leeds are one of them then surely that will hot up over the next few weeks now Phillips has gone.

If he does leave near the end then I'd expect us to replace him with a loan signing but saying that, the club will have targets in mind to replace him, it's whether they're still available when Berge goes of course.

I think we'll start this season with a weaker squad than last season whatever sadly.