Excellent post in a Facebook group

[itsinyerblood]

But we don’t know what the budget is? Sounds more like nonsense and knee-jerking to me. I blame Giddings.

And it's rare that we ever know. The best we arrive at are guesstimates based on what are generally varying fees that sometimes don't reflect what's reported.
As mentioned elsewhere, I think it was Sean Thornton, prepare for a relatively small budget that Wilder can do what he wishes with.

 

[Woodwardfan]

to

Plenty of meaningful contribution from me all over this forum. Including in the sections that you have dismissed as meaningless in the past. As I've noted before, assuming that you are more intelligent or "meaningful" than everyone else is always a dangerous move to make. Especially on this forum.

My New Year resolution will be to avoid all engagement with superior, self-satisfied, patronising, pompous trolls. Absence of self-awareness, and lecturing others on your own virtue and value ? Pfffft.

Oh, and I wasn't talking to you (perish the thought). I was talking to LYDON. His posts generally merit a reply. Yours don't.

Now Lydon does qualify to be on my 'ignore' list - heavyweight there.

Step up Shocking Sorry, I just feel you deserve it. Not like me to snipe at all.

But we can all be clever prats at times Shocking as it is.

 

[BushBlade]

Great post.

The only club you mention that I might challenge is Brentford. Yes he’s piling money in but he’s a genuine fan trying to do something different to potentially get Brentford promoted. They do buy young prospects and then trade them.

I had a conversation with a friend on mine who supports another club and he was saying there might only be 2 clubs yet to fulfill potential that could eventually challenge the top end of the PL.

Wolves is one and it’s pretty clear they will get promoted this year and then could spend enormous amounts I’m told.

The other is Leeds. They will get it right one day and apparently the new owner is close to the Qatar royal family. If he sold, sovereign wealth could propel Leeds.

Kevin will sell if we reach the PL and maybe the Prince but we have no idea who will take over and who will be suitable or how competitive we’ll be. Of course competing against parachute clubs and wealthy owners which covers half of the Championship gives no guarantee we’ll be successful in getting promotion.

Best to enjoy the football Chris’s team produces and stop worrying about it.

The reason I mentioned Brentford is that this season they've sold off some of their best players and downscaled their new stadium plans. It seems Benham is reluctant to keep chucking large sums of money into the club year on year. And, as you say, he's a fan with the club's best interests at heart. I remember the days when Benham was held up as an exemplar owner, when Brentford were ripping apart Wilson's and Weir's teams.

 

[Pinchy]

And it's rare that we ever know. The best we arrive at are guesstimates based on what are generally varying fees that sometimes don't reflect what's reported.
As mentioned elsewhere, I think it was Sean Thornton, prepare for a relatively small budget that Wilder can do what he wishes with.

Yes, my guess is it will be a relatively modest sum, but it’s known only to very few. None of whom are silly Twitter ITK tossers or the gullible on here who believe everything they read, provided it suits their agenda.

 

[Pinchy]

I don't see why people are getting their knickers in a twist.

Wilder has targets. He will decide if they go through or not based on the valuations given.

We all saw the video from August.

Chill out and see what happens. We all know a midfielder will be coming in. And if the 3 loans are true... It's wilder who has decided that.

That comes solely from Giddings the Numpty writing something that Wilder patently didn’t say. Misrepresenting your own contemporaneously recorded interview requires unique skills. Well done “Gidds”.

Only on Radio S2...

 

[Pinchy]

Ah didums poor rich businessmen, really deserve our sympathy. Or, if its to tough for them sell to someone who can afford a football club. Truth is they own it because they hope to to make tons of money from it on and off the pitch.

That’s really naive, mate, and certainly not the reason Kevin McCabe owns United. History shows that if you want to be a rich man in football, you better start off a very rich man. As for selling the club, where are the buyers?

 

[itsinyerblood]

Yes, my guess is it will be a relatively modest sum, but it’s known only to very few. None of whom are silly Twitter ITK tossers or the gullible on here who believe everything they read, provided it suits their agenda.

Completely agree. United's owners, whilst not being short of a bob or two, don't seem capable of providing the type of funds that many seem to hope for. Nothing wrong in hoping for large amounts, but I'd have thought it's as clear as day that from past experience we're just not a big spending club.

It's been commented on many times, but there are positives to being overly cautious, just as spending freely can sometimes pay dividends. It's a gambler's market in reality, and unless you have enormous resources to call upon don't attempt to compete with those who throw their money about like there's no tomorrow. There aren't that many Abramovich's about to subsidise a football club, so rather than indulge in fits of pique, accept who we are and what we're capable of. Until the day arrives when a genuine moneybags takes control of this club, we're a club who punches above it's weight on a regular basis.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

How exactly have the owners recouped anything when we continue to lose money every year?

Surely you'e not suggesting brown envelopes are passing under tables to sweeten the deal and explain why we report such low fees.

As I've said above, I don't know.

The context of my earlier post though was trying to get my head around the sale of Brooks this season, bearing in mind this season's increased match-day revenue, fairly substantial increased TV money revenue, & the Maguire/Walker sell-on money.

Woody's a poster who's always banging on about Kev's chance to recoup his £50m losses when(/if) we get back into the Prem, so I'm hardly alone in thinking it may be a consideration.

Selling a star player every season was difficult enough to swallow in the Third Division, but at a higher level when, on the face of it, it's difficult to see any sort of pressing financial necessity, it sticks in the craw that bit more. If, of course, it happens.

 

[Pinchy]

As I've noted before, assuming that you are more intelligent or "meaningful" than everyone else is always a dangerous move to make. Especially on this forum

Never done me any harm...

 

[UnitedBlade]

That comes solely from Giddings the Numpty writing something that Wilder patently didn’t say. Misrepresenting your own contemporaneously recorded interview requires unique skills. Well done “Gidds”.

Only on Radio S2...

To be fair, you will have missed the explanation of this. It was said in the press briefing after Giddings had finished his interview with Wilder.

He may have his faults but Giddings isn’t that incompetent.

 

[Pinchy]

As I've said above, I don't know...

...but I’m perfectly happy to make negative assumptions and throw out hints in furtherance of the Agenda. I have a right to spend other people’s money and then decry them for keeping my football club going. That is my self-entitled prerogative and it costs me nothing.

 

[Pinchy]

To be fair, you will have missed the explanation of this. It was said in the press briefing after Giddings had finished his interview with Wilder.

He may have his faults but Giddings isn’t that incompetent.

Was it? Show me, please.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Was it? Show me, please.

It’s somewhere in the various threads we had yesterday!

Someone asked for clarification on Giddings twitter and that was the reply he gave so you can check it there.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Joshaston28

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

...but I’m perfectly happy to make negative assumptions and throw out hints in furtherance of the Agenda. I have a right to spend other people’s money and then decry them for keeping my football club going. That is my self-entitled prerogative and it costs me nothing.

Not at all. Just that I don't see any need to personally sympathise with our owner's plight.

As I say, I can't see where the pressing need exists to flog Brooks this season, bearing in mind the increased income from other sources.

Not interested in spending other people's money. Just as uninterested in saving it too.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Has he sent you a Christmas card? I'm sure he'll know where you live....

What Woodwardfan means is...

You don't post OPs that gain 60+ 'likes' therefore, you (and I + many others) don't really contribute to this board.

VUMx

PS... Have a good Christmas.

Never done me any harm...

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

How disappointing that you feel unable to tell us all the real facts.

Well ok. I’ll try to be basic.

£150k a week losses aren’t problems beset by the club. It’s reckless spending by reckless men. Men who are employed by McCabe to oversee spending. That we are losing such sums is the fault of those in charge. No clear wage structure can have been formed. No limits can have been set. Simplistic.

League 1 money is poor at best. TV revenue is shit. Sponsors aren’t that bothered...

We’re no longer in league 1. Revenue has shot up. We have more season tickets than any time in the last 10 years. Better known sponsors (top spring and v sports anyone...?)

If we suggest that this season is a financial consolidation as oppose to a push on to the play-offs then the sell-on fees are getting swallowed up. How much has promotion been worth? Really?

Nothing if you’re not willing to spend it.

But hey, what do I know?

 

[steve26272]

Clough spent a lot but for 2 million we could have had a run of the mill fullback and a proven league 1 goal scorer, instead we got Brayford and Done (didn't Done cos a fair wad also but not enough to get us a forward with goals in him). Think our priorities were wrong.

clough obviously wanted his love child to be signed, so.......
Bradford is signed - wtf spending all that on a defender, fuck off McCabe.
Brayford isn't signed - wtf back the manager, fuck off McCabe.

can't be arsed to add then up exactly, but i reckon for every man city & Chelsea investment success, there's 3 sunderland/leeds/pigs fuck ups.
few years ago everyone loved the Steve gibson/boro success, well run by a sensible investor, i would bet they are giving him the same shit McCabe is getting now. Unless it's serious coin who knows what will happen, be careful what you wish for - anyone else half expecting the Barnsley take over to end in tears?

 

[BushBlade]

Not at all. Just that I don't see any need to personally sympathise with our owner's plight.

As I say, I can't see where the pressing need exists to flog Brooks this season, bearing in mind the increased income from other sources.

Not interested in spending other people's money. Just as uninterested in saving it too.

But you do realise that our expenses have gone up considerably too? We've given all our decent players new contracts and signed a few more. The championship isn't like the PL, where if you get promoted into it your financial problems are solved by huge TV payments. We've gone from covering losses so we can have one of the biggest wage bills in the division to a situation where even if the owners were prepared to continue to cover the losses at the level they did previously, (and common sense indicates that neither can afford to do that) we'd still have one of the smallest wage bills in the division.

The bottom line is that we will have to sell players to reinvest in new ones. Just like Spurs had to sell the likes of Bale, Modric, Berbatov, to get where they are now. It's far from perfect but I'd still rather be in that situation than have just been taken over by the people who've taken over the Dingles.

 

[BushBlade]

clough obviously wanted his love child to be signed, so.......
Bradford is signed - wtf spending all that on a defender, fuck off McCabe.
Brayford isn't signed - wtf back the manager, fuck off McCabe.

can't be arsed to add then up exactly, but i reckon for every man city & Chelsea investment success, there's 3 sunderland/leeds/pigs fuck ups.
few years ago everyone loved the Steve gibson/boro success, well run by a sensible investor, i would bet they are giving him the same shit McCabe is getting now. Unless it's serious coin who knows what will happen, be careful what you wish for - anyone else half expecting the Barnsley take over to end in tears?

Funny you should mention Barnsley...

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well ok. I’ll try to be basic.

£150k a week losses aren’t problems beset by the club. It’s reckless spending by reckless men. Men who are employed by McCabe to oversee spending. That we are losing such sums is the fault of those in charge. No clear wage structure can have been formed. No limits can have been set. Simplistic.

League 1 money is poor at best. TV revenue is shit. Sponsors aren’t that bothered...

We’re no longer in league 1. Revenue has shot up. We have more season tickets than any time in the last 10 years. Better known sponsors (top spring and v sports anyone...?)

If we suggest that this season is a financial consolidation as oppose to a push on to the play-offs then the sell-on fees are getting swallowed up. How much has promotion been worth? Really?

Nothing if you’re not willing to spend it.

But hey, what do I know?

You've not put one opposing argument against the figures mentioned or facts claimed. Not one.

Losses don't count because they're made by the owners. Even though it's them that suffer the loss. Right.

The club don't have a budget. Unlikely.

Revenue has shot up etc. No mention of the improved contracts offered to players. No surprise. Only thing missing is it suits them to stay at this level.

Clearly not as much as you believe.

 

[Bladesman]

Aaah right. Standard football chairman speak. We're skint.

You truly believe season ticket sales are based solely on owners statements - or lack of them - rather than what happens on the pitch?

If we were bottom of the table and they said Wilder had say £10m to spend, season ticket sales would be as good as they have been?

Where did I say they were based solely on the owners statement? McCabe has always raised expections during the summer break. You reckon if he came out saying "We're fucked and have no cash. So don't expect much next season." then it wouldn't effect ST sales at all?

It's marketing regardless of the actual size of the transfer budget.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

But you do realise that our expenses have gone up considerably too? We've given all our decent players new contracts and signed a few more. The championship isn't like the PL, where if you get promoted into it your financial problems are solved by huge TV payments. We've gone from covering losses so we can have one of the biggest wage bills in the division to a situation where even if the owners were prepared to continue to cover the losses at the level they did previously, (and common sense indicates that neither can afford to do that) we'd still have one of the smallest wage bills in the division.

The bottom line is that we will have to sell players to reinvest in new ones. Just like Spurs had to sell the likes of Bale, Modric, Berbatov, to get where they are now. It's far from perfect but I'd still rather be in that situation than have just been taken over by the people who've taken over the Dingles.

We've raked in, what?, £7m from the Walker/Maguire sell-ons! The TV money's gone up many millions (in addition to match-day receipts/commercial income). And we're still having to sell?

We're in a right state then. God help us next season if we don't go up!

 

[metalblade]

I see the old well income has improved but so have expenses excuse has shown itself. So what are we saying here is giving out improved contracts to players going to increase our losses because if that is so you are calling the very people you are defending incompetent. If they are not in fact incompetent then surely they will be giving out contracts we can afford and living within our means, this expenses have increased argument doesn't really stack up.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Where did I say they were based solely on the owners statement? McCabe has always raised expections during the summer break. You reckon if he came out saying "We're fucked and have no cash. So don't expect much next season." then it wouldn't effect ST sales at all?

It's marketing regardless of the actual size of the transfer budget.

So do you think more season tickets are sold based on what occurs on the pitch or McCabes spiel ? Only you only mentioned McCabe thus suggesting that there's a sheep mentality. Which with all due respect is bollocks and a myth put about by the Groundhog Day "realists" on here who fail every time to back up their "facts" and get a bit snippy when this is pointed out.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I see the old well income has improved but so have expenses excuse has shown itself. So what are we saying here is giving out improved contracts to players going to increase our losses because if that is so you are calling the very people you are defending incompetent. If they are not in fact incompetent then surely they will be giving out contracts we can afford and living within our means, this expenses have increased argument doesn't really stack up.

It's true though. Has anyone said losses will increase. Apart from you above, no. Accuracy flies out of the window yet again.

We don't give out improved contract to players and guess what, they leave. A bit much referring to others incompetence when basic common sense has deserted you.

I should read your post again if I were you.

 

[Sean Thornton]

To make it simpler for the terminally slashing, what I and others have said is that additional income will cover increased wages. The sell ins cover the losses. So break even, any investment could go on the team as there are no losses to cover. Whether that investment is forthcoming in any amount is sadly debatable.

Why people need to pretend anything else has been said is rather sad.

 

[metalblade]

It's true though. Has anyone said losses will increase. Apart from you above, no. Accuracy flies out of the window yet again.

We don't give out improved contract to players and guess what, they leave. A bit much referring to others incompetence when basic common sense has deserted you.

I should read your post again if I were you.

What are you saying now give players anything they want or they leave? Whether in the Championship or League one you pay what you can afford I don't think it is a bit much calling the contracts Clough and to a certain degree Adkins was allowed to give out anything but incompetent. If after being promoted losses are still growing then something is wrong Wilder is on a reduced budget to Adkins you might want to ask yourself where's money gone ? Maybe the board are still incompetent. Like I said elsewhere we will see in February, for the record I'll be happy with one permanent and a few loans I see no reason to splash millions like the pigs as long as we keep our best players.

 

[Sean Thornton]

What are you saying now give players anything they want or they leave? Whether in the Championship or League one you pay what you can afford I don't think it is a bit much calling the contracts Clough and to a certain degree Adkins was allowed to give out anything but incompetent. If after being promoted losses are still growing then something is wrong Wilder is on a reduced budget to Adkins you might want to ask yourself where's money gone ? Maybe the board are still incompetent. Like I said elsewhere we will see in February, for the record I'll be happy with one permanent and a few loans I see no reason to splash millions like the pigs as long as we keep our best players.

Why suggest I've said something I haven't? I commented on wages having increased. Along with income.

Are we talking about now or the past?

Has anyone said losses are still growing ? Other , again, than you?

 

[Bladesman]

So do you think more season tickets are sold based on what occurs on the pitch or McCabes spiel ? Only you only mentioned McCabe thus suggesting that there's a sheep mentality. Which with all due respect is bollocks and a myth put about by the Groundhog Day "realists" on here who fail every time to back up their "facts" and get a bit snippy when this is pointed out.

No, what I am saying is a bit of both goes someway to people renewing.

 

[metalblade]

Why suggest I've said something I haven't? I commented on wages having increased. Along with income.

Are we talking about now or the past?

Has anyone said losses are still growing ? Other , again, than you?

Maybe you should read the OP again in particular the bits about how much we lost in the six years in League one which roughly works out on average £5m per season compared to a loss of £7,7m last season which is suggesting increasing losses. Also stated in the OP were yearly wage levels of £11m in league one when the average was £4m. Clearly we are talking of the past in an effort to justify a possible low level of investment in the season where in the words of the board at the time that the real significant investment from the Prince would kick in.