Excellent post in a Facebook group

[Silent Blade]

Lack of investment really?
United’s losses, before taking into account player sales, were £7.7 million in 2016/17, or about £150,000 a week. Total similar losses during the League One years were £31.2 million, although player sales reduced this by £12.5 million.
Wages in L1 reached as much as £11m a year the average for L1 is £4m
Yet with figures like that we still blew £2m on Brayford
So while it’s easy to be critical of the board let’s be realistic & look at the bigger picture.
Don’t forget we’ve picked up some quality players on the cheap that would demand sizeable transfer fees today & we are challenging the big spenders on the pitch
The problem is pure frustration obviously we all want to throw money at the squad & bring in top players but that’s not Chris Wilders style & is no guarantee of success... we all know a pig fan don’t we ? ask them

 

[Woodwardfan]

Well said Silent.

Those are all figures which never sink in to certain members on here, partly because they don't want to hear it as it doesn't suit their mood towards the club. They want to have someone to blame for not delivering success on a plate to them at all costs.

Looking at those figures for that relatively short period of time supports my claims that McCabe has invested north of £50m over the period he has owned the club even after allowing for the properties which he have been assigned to him at market price ( through his companies) in repayment of debt owing to him.

Of course that is not the full issue. Investment is one thing, picking a manager capable of delivering success is another. Managerial appointments have been disastrous until Wilder was appointed. This has been a pressure job at a 'big club' and some of the pieces of the jigsaw have not been visible until Wilder got back to basics and cleared away much of the untidy mess and got them all on the table.

We could have expected some of those managers to be big enough men to properly manage the above investments listed in the O.P. but alas they were not. Wilder is, or we hope he is because the job is only partly done as yet and he is right in the middle of his first dip at our club. How he and the players react to this dip may well determine all our futures at our club.. He has to carry the players along with him and at the same time get them to grow as players and characters who will see new players challenge them for their team places now and in the future.

The owners can only set out the jigsaw pieces on the table and the manager has to put it all together. It might seem like a thousand piece jigsaw with all dull colours and vague shapes at the moment but that's just the way things go. Wilder will keep having a go and another go until it's complete.

McCabe will only get his £50m back if we are back in the Premiership and if we can stay up there a second year the money just rolls in. The man is planning a big ground extension for that time so that we capitalise on exactly that.

 

[bladesmanluke]

Nobody and I mean nobody would be complaining about our tiny budget this January if the board were just honest for once. Just tell us we’re potless and we’ll deal with it.

They couldn’t manage that though could they? Back in the summer it was all jam tomorrow. What was the need in McCabe saying we would invest big in January if we had a chance of promotion? This is why people are fed up

 

[Woodwardfan]

Nobody and I mean nobody would be complaining about our tiny budget this January if the board were just honest for once. Just tell us we’re potless and we’ll deal with it.

They couldn’t manage that though could they? Back in the summer it was all jam tomorrow. What was the need in McCabe saying we would invest big in January if we had a chance of promotion? This is why people are fed up

We will have an idea by the end of January but it would be daft to declare it now.

Having a budget is one thing, spending it is another, particularly in January. Get the impression Wilder won't panic like Clough did.

 

[Stretch]

It is very sobering to see the figures laid out like this and at the end of the day I have no doubt that the McCabes and the Prince have lost a great deal of money in recent years [the McCabes ever since they came in probably] in funding the clubs losses.

However, other clubs of a similar size and similar ownership structure must face similar losses yet seem to fair better in terms of overall investment. A successful benefactor model largely relies on the owner being willing/able to consistently cover losses as well as investing their own fortunes to provide additional funding. Ours seem to be reluctant or unable to do both, which is why it's always squeaky bum time during transfer windows and why injuries will always affect us more than teams with greater strength in depth, which invariably costs.

The only way the owners will make anything back is to get PL football, but they don't seem willing to pay out to get there, hoping instead that a very talented manager will work miracles and relying on good luck, something that isn't normally associated with us.

 

[South Bucks]

I always remember when it first came out we'd spent millions on Brayford I was deeply saddened because I knew it would mean we'd have nowt left for midfielders and forwards and would end up feeding on cheap scraps. With 3 points for a win it makes no sense to me to spunk most of your money on defenders. A team that keeps clean sheets but can't score is destined for a borderline relegation points total in many seasons. For me paying that for Brayford was the single biggest act of mis management in the decade. Even appointing Madkins wasn't as bad cos there was a chance he might have come good. Brayford was never going to make much of a difference in terms of winning games and the money would have been better spent on players that score goals.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Lack of investment really?
United’s losses, before taking into account player sales, were £7.7 million in 2016/17, or about £150,000 a week. Total similar losses during the League One years were £31.2 million, although player sales reduced this by £12.5 million.
Wages in L1 reached as much as £11m a year the average for L1 is £4m
Yet with figures like that we still blew £2m on Brayford
So while it’s easy to be critical of the board let’s be realistic & look at the bigger picture.
Don’t forget we’ve picked up some quality players on the cheap that would demand sizeable transfer fees today & we are challenging the big spenders on the pitch
The problem is pure frustration obviously we all want to throw money at the squad & bring in top players but that’s not Chris Wilders style & is no guarantee of success... we all know a pig fan don’t we ? ask them

Can we make this a mandatory read before people can post on this forum?

 

[Woodwardfan]

I always remember when it first came out we'd spent millions on Brayford I was deeply saddened because I knew it would mean we'd have nowt left for midfielders and forwards and would end up feeding on cheap scraps. With 3 points for a win it makes no sense to me to spunk most of your money on defenders. A team that keeps clean sheets but can't score is destined for a borderline relegation points total in many seasons. For me paying that for Brayford was the single biggest act of mis management in the decade. Even appointing Madkins wasn't as bad cos there was a chance he might have come good. Brayford was never going to make much of a difference in terms of winning games and the money would have been better spent on players that score goals.

We actually signed Done, Coutts, Wallace I think and I think Freeman that JTW as well as Brayford.

That was more than big backing for Clough who had spent a lot the previous summer too.

Maguire had gone by then but let's not say we haven't spent money. See the O.P.

 

[boo radley]

Nobody and I mean nobody would be complaining about our tiny budget this January if the board were just honest for once. Just tell us we’re potless and we’ll deal with it.

They couldn’t manage that though could they? Back in the summer it was all jam tomorrow. What was the need in McCabe saying we would invest big in January if we had a chance of promotion? This is why people are fed up

Football clubs are autocratic. If you were in charge you would be the same.
I have given up debating financial matters because loads of people claim all sorts of different figures for different things.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Bleedin spendthrifts

 

[sheffielder]

Nobody and I mean nobody would be complaining about our tiny budget this January if the board were just honest for once. Just tell us we’re potless and we’ll deal with it.

They couldn’t manage that though could they? Back in the summer it was all jam tomorrow. What was the need in McCabe saying we would invest big in January if we had a chance of promotion? This is why people are fed up

Well this fucks be right off. I have woken up, missed Christmas and I haven’t started my fucking diet. He we are in feb and no signings To boot

 

[raul]

Do these threads ever go anywhere?

Man runs club. Man makes a lot of bad decisions. Man pays for bad decisions.

Half of the people think he's a Deity for paying for them, the rest wonder why he makes so many and more importantly when he's going to stop.

Storm January / JWTDDA approaches, already fuelled by boardroom appointments and loans being taken out. Again, half see this as more evidence of his brilliance , half that he's up to something. Again.

Question is - has anyone ever taken in the opposing point of view (and conceded it has merit ) or are we just doomed to spouting the same owd same owd for the sake of it when surely by now everyone who's a regular knows where everyone else stands?

 

[South Bucks]

We actually signed Done, Coutts, Wallace I think and I think Freeman that JTW as well as Brayford.

That was more than big backing for Clough who had spent a lot the previous summer too.

Maguire had gone by then but let's not say we haven't spent money. See the O.P.

Clough spent a lot but for 2 million we could have had a run of the mill fullback and a proven league 1 goal scorer, instead we got Brayford and Done (didn't Done cos a fair wad also but not enough to get us a forward with goals in him). Think our priorities were wrong.

 

[metalblade]

All well and good saying we lost this, this and this amount of money but Mr Joe Public on FB doesn't really know he is guessing like the rest of us unless it is Kev or the Prince posting under a different name. No doubt we shall see how much we have invested or not come February 1st

 

[oaklandrdblade]

The only way the owners will make anything back is to get PL football, but they don't seem willing to pay out to get there, hoping instead that a very talented manager will work miracles and relying on good luck, something that isn't normally associated with us.

Even there not many make money and many are massively in debt https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/01/premier-league-finances-club-by-club

 

[TarquinDelouche]

Ye but weer’s munny gonn?

 

[LenTednTony]

......or just maybe, the Wilder requirements of a player mean that the vast majority of them won’t have a Billy Biggonads attitude and that they will be hungry for success, if they don’t have a huge price tag. Maybe also, CW and AK are cute cookies who get the owners to say (manna from heaven for them) that we don’t have a lot of money to spend. This way we all know CW has to shop for his hidden gems and if it doesn’t work out, CW can claim it’s because of where we have to shop. Win win for CW and AK. Nah, I don’t believe it either! In CW I trust.

 

[LJBlade]

Nobody and I mean nobody would be complaining about our tiny budget this January if the board were just honest for once. Just tell us we’re potless and we’ll deal with it.

They couldn’t manage that though could they? Back in the summer it was all jam tomorrow. What was the need in McCabe saying we would invest big in January if we had a chance of promotion? This is why people are fed up

You seriously think that nobody would complain if McCabe (or the Prince) came out and said we don’t have much money so we won’t be spending much in January. You think there won’t be some asking where the money has gone, quoting season ticket sales and sell on fees? I don’t, I think there will be some who complain regardless of what is said.

Also, there are plenty of clubs who have no money but how many times do you hear the club tell it’s fans that? United are no different.

The club do tell the fans things and some don’t listen. Wilder has been saying ever since he got here hat he won’t be throwing money around but some still expect us to spend millions in each transfer window.

 

[Stretch]

Even there not many make money and many are massively in debt https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/01/premier-league-finances-club-by-club

Yeah true, eventually profits from revenue get swallowed up by PL wage bills etc I expect.

 

[Sean Thornton]

All well and good saying we lost this, this and this amount of money but Mr Joe Public on FB doesn't really know he is guessing like the rest of us unless it is Kev or the Prince posting under a different name. No doubt we shall see how much we have invested or not come February 1st

The amounts invested by the two owners, up to June this year are clear for anyone to see. They're factual. The only people are guessing are the ones who won't accept this, or who quote other figures. It's there in black and white that McCabe has put over £43m into BL and SUFC companies (not repaid transferred to shares and a share premium account) without even i thinking about SU Limited.

Same with the losses. There for all to see.

 

[Inter_blade83]

I don't see why people are getting their knickers in a twist.

Wilder has targets. He will decide if they go through or not based on the valuations given.

We all saw the video from August.

Chill out and see what happens. We all know a midfielder will be coming in. And if the 3 loans are true... It's wilder who has decided that.

 

[8lade]

Clough spent a lot but for 2 million we could have had a run of the mill fullback and a proven league 1 goal scorer, instead we got Brayford and Done (didn't Done cos a fair wad also but not enough to get us a forward with goals in him). Think our priorities were wrong.

A couple of points about this, how many people didn't want Brayford at the time? I was a dissenter but there weren't many of us. (You may remember me saying, if there's one thing I've learnt from Football Manager it's, 'never blow your budget on one player as they invariably get injured.')
Done cost £800k (if the rumours were to be believed) and was a goal scorer. But you have to play to a striker's strength if you want him to score and Clough decided not to.

 

[Inter_blade83]

A couple of points about this, how many people didn't want Brayford at the time? I was a dissenter but there weren't many of us. (You may remember me saying, if there's one thing I've learnt from Football Manager it's, 'never blow your budget on one player as they invariably get injured.')
Done cost £800k (if the rumours were to be believed) and was a goal scorer. But you have to play to a striker's strength if you want him to score and Clough decided not to.

I've also got promoted from the championship with largely the same squad from league one plus a few prem loanees...

Maybe wilder has done the same and wants to try it out

 

[8lade]

I've also got promoted from the championship with largely the same squad from league one plus a few prem loanees...

Maybe wilder has done the same and wants to try it out

The season you got promoted from the Championship, who did you buy in the January TW? (You'll hear it here first!)

 

[Inter_blade83]

The season you got promoted from the Championship, who did you buy in the January TW? (You'll hear it here first!)

Couple of loans to bolster the squad

 

[finlaytheblade]

It is very sobering to see the figures laid out like this and at the end of the day I have no doubt that the McCabes and the Prince have lost a great deal of money in recent years [the McCabes ever since they came in probably] in funding the clubs losses.

However, other clubs of a similar size and similar ownership structure must face similar losses yet seem to fair better in terms of overall investment. A successful benefactor model largely relies on the owner being willing/able to consistently cover losses as well as investing their own fortunes to provide additional funding. Ours seem to be reluctant or unable to do both, which is why it's always squeaky bum time during transfer windows and why injuries will always affect us more than teams with greater strength in depth, which invariably costs.

The only way the owners will make anything back is to get PL football, but they don't seem willing to pay out to get there, hoping instead that a very talented manager will work miracles and relying on good luck, something that isn't normally associated with us.

Which clubs do you mean who have been through what we have in the past decade and reached the promised land I can't think of any.Apart from your Bournemouth's who somehow managed to rope in a Russian billionaire.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Clough spent a lot but for 2 million we could have had a run of the mill fullback and a proven league 1 goal scorer, instead we got Brayford and Done (didn't Done cos a fair wad also but not enough to get us a forward with goals in him). Think our priorities were wrong.

Done £750k 'ish. Panic, Hill at Rochdale said something like " in the end we got to money which was impossible to refuse"

He's got him back now for nothing!

 

[Blade56]

Lack of investment really?
United’s losses, before taking into account player sales, were £7.7 million in 2016/17, or about £150,000 a week. Total similar losses during the League One years were £31.2 million, although player sales reduced this by £12.5 million.
Wages in L1 reached as much as £11m a year the average for L1 is £4m
Yet with figures like that we still blew £2m on Brayford
So while it’s easy to be critical of the board let’s be realistic & look at the bigger picture.
Don’t forget we’ve picked up some quality players on the cheap that would demand sizeable transfer fees today & we are challenging the big spenders on the pitch
The problem is pure frustration obviously we all want to throw money at the squad & bring in top players but that’s not Chris Wilders style & is no guarantee of success... we all know a pig fan don’t we ? ask them

Ah didums poor rich businessmen, really deserve our sympathy. Or, if its to tough for them sell to someone who can afford a football club. Truth is they own it because they hope to to make tons of money from it on and off the pitch.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Nobody and I mean nobody would be complaining about our tiny budget this January if the board were just honest for once. Just tell us we’re potless and we’ll deal with it.

They couldn’t manage that though could they? Back in the summer it was all jam tomorrow. What was the need in McCabe saying we would invest big in January if we had a chance of promotion? This is why people are fed up

Let everyone think that we are skint when we go to the market place, then prices don't get inflated.

Lets get to January as well before sticking daggers in?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Which clubs do you mean who have been through what we have in the past decade and reached the promised land I can't think of any.Apart from your Bournemouth's who somehow managed to rope in a Russian billionaire.

and broke the FFP Rules and will be fined soon - so what they'll say!!