Everton FFP

[Need4speed]

The problem is that Everton fans are only seeing it from their point of view. I think they would engender a lot more support from fans of other clubs if they linked their issue with the overall governance of FFP. That to me is the real issue. To an extent the EFL have started to do this with clear and transparent punishments for for example failing to pay players

 

[Billyblade]

The problem is that Everton fans are only seeing it from their point of view. I think they would engender a lot more support from fans of other clubs if they linked their issue with the overall governance of FFP. That to me is the real issue. To an extent the EFL have started to do this with clear and transparent punishments for for example failing to pay players

Transparency would prevent the Premier League from looking after their favoured ones.

 

[Need4speed]

Transparency would prevent the Premier League from looking after their favoured ones.

The problem is that all clubs are acting in their own self interest. Clubs like Everton and Sheffield United have more in common that we have with the sneaky six Yet this week we voted with them

 

[paidsy]

Everton fans continually acting hard done by is wearing extremely thin now. They were explicitly told what they needed to do to avoid breaching FFP, then went ahead and ignored that advice. It's multiple acts of stupidity by the club, now they have to eat it.

 

[SwissBlade]

The problem is that all clubs are acting in their own self interest. Clubs like Everton and Sheffield United have more in common that we have with the sneaky six Yet this week we voted with them

If what I think you’re referring to is the vote to allow Newcastle or other clubs within a multi club ownership model to loan players from/ to themselves then it’s a very different situation.

Everton have broken premier league rules for FFP issues, for which they’ve been fined and docked points for it.

The multi club ownership model, whilst in our situation is much lower profile and currently lower placed teams, than for the likes of Chelsea, Newcastle or City, it’s a model which, as a club we’ve worked with under the prince and prior to that, with McCabe since around 2005-06. Ferencvaros, Chengdu were perhaps ahead of the game compared to what is happening in Saudi. We utilised Ferencvaros to loan Lowton. We utilised Beerschot to loan Seriki and Coulibaly…

 

[8lade]

That's a decent shout SwissBlade it is the same (using the letter of the law), although we are using it to harden some of our youngsters with loans abroad and the big clubs are using it to bring £50million players in but not have that cost on their books.

 

[diplomat]

Leicester city fans are so pissed off about the 10 points deduction coming now...if they were applied last season they might've stayed up.

Especially as they did seem to be making an effort to reduce their outgoings. Funnily enough if they had just kept Schmeichel in net rather than his inadequate replacement, they probably would have stayed up.

 

[Le Cynique]

The problem is that Everton fans are only seeing it from their point of view. I think they would engender a lot more support from fans of other clubs if they linked their issue with the overall governance of FFP. That to me is the real issue. To an extent the EFL have started to do this with clear and transparent punishments for for example failing to pay players

I’d also have more sympathy for the fans if they were complaining about the board and owner for getting them into this situation rather than just moaning that it’s the Premier League being unfair

 

[SwissBlade]

That's a decent shout SwissBlade it is the same (using the letter of the law), although we are using it to harden some of our youngsters with loans abroad and the big clubs are using it to bring £50million players in but not have that cost on their books.

A lot of clubs owners have had multi club ownership over the last two decades to develop their players. Now the opportunity has arisen for the Saudi owners and their new big money league to exploit this loophole further

Personally I think, whilst being an exploitation of the FFP rules for this purpose, it’s smart thinking and pretty funny.

It upsets the balance, creates new clubs like Newcastle to upset the balance of power

Just like the 5 subs and extended time damages clubs like us and favours the super rich with their inflated squads, this also creates an imbalance that many of premier league clubs aren’t involved in…

 

[LBA_Blade]

A lot of clubs owners have had multi club ownership over the last two decades to develop their players. Now the opportunity has arisen for the Saudi owners and their new big money league to exploit this loophole further

Personally I think, whilst being an exploitation of the FFP rules for this purpose, it’s smart thinking and pretty funny.

It upsets the balance, creates new clubs like Newcastle to upset the balance of power

Just like the 5 subs and extended time damages clubs like us and favours the super rich with their inflated squads, this also creates an imbalance that many of premier league clubs aren’t involved in…

Its a difficult one with Newcastle, agreed if you were looking over the last 20 years they have been a bit sporadic with their final positions, regulated twice but bounced back 1st at the 1st opportunity each time but even in there they have had 5 top 10 finishes in 20 seasons. But during the Keegan/Dalglish/Robson eras they were always up there. Although the money is definitely new money and in a sense its a new club because of the reach of where that money can be spent. I personally think that Man City created this carnage by being the club that went from a not much to know about club to constant titles.

 

[SwissBlade]

Its a difficult one with Newcastle, agreed if you were looking over the last 20 years they have been a bit sporadic with their final positions, regulated twice but bounced back 1st at the 1st opportunity each time but even in there they have had 5 top 10 finishes in 20 seasons. But during the Keegan/Dalglish/Robson eras they were always up there. Although the money is definitely new money and in a sense its a new club because of the reach of where that money can be spent. I personally think that Man City created this carnage by being the club that went from a not much to know about club to constant titles.

Agree with Newcastle, they’ve been up and down and always seemed to be hot and cold

I wouldn’t class them as a consistent top 6 club, but the point in the premier league is that there are the top 6 which takes a lot to penetrate, then there are the Everton’s that really should be doing better for the time they’ve been in the top league.

The likes of West Ham, Brighton, Newcastle, Leicester etc who’ve all broken that top 6, 8 10 and upset the balance really give that snobbery at the top table something to think about

Blackburn and then Chelsea were ahead of City in buying the league… City have just done it better, longer term, more sustainavly and more consistency. Don’t actually have an issue with city’s approach, mostly. But they will have to suffer the consequences if they have broken the rules

 

[munksyb]

Many other clubs purposely didn't go spending stupid money on players in an effort to be cetain they didn't break FFP, and are weaker because of it.
Everton went ahead with all their overblown investments, and hoped to use Covid & inflation caused by the Ukraine war to claim ' it's not our fault, these were unforseen circumstances ' , as an excuse.
That is not an excuse, that is poor financial management.
The Blades did not pursue many top players because they new that would break FFP & probably take us into administration ( even though our debt would not match Manures £1 Billion debt ). but we didn't.

FFP must be applied properly, and penalties must be enough to deter clubs goig down this road.

Citee & Everton MUST be penalised appropriately, alon with others who are breaking the rules, otherwise scrap all the rules & only the rich clubs survive

 

[mattbianco1]

 

[Bladesman]

 

[fifty shades of blade]

Usually I'm well up for pedantry but when it comes to the never-ending corporate rebrands of what will always be Football League Divisions One to Four, I can't bring myself to be arsed.

Never ending? It was known as the premiership from 1993 to 2001. Then been known as the premier league ever since...22 years ago!!

 

[HighfieldBlade]

The same Leicester which, pre rule change, declared themselves bankrupt with impunity leaving creditors millions out of pocket and rebuilt with a clean slate resulting in the most successful period in their history with 2 major trophies and Champions League football? That Leicester?

Every Leicester City fan when you mention this...

 

[Mattblade68]

Watching Sky Sports News tonight , I saw an interview with a leading member of Everton’s supporters club who is involved in the various protests which have been planned .

He was adamant that the sanction was totally unjust , on the grounds that it punished their supporters who had played no part in the breaching of the rules .

I seem to recall that this argument has been used in the past with some success and is one which makes a lot of sense , notwithstanding the fact that it can only be used with regard to ‘big’ clubs and not the supporters of ‘less important’ ones who have suffered as a result of flagrant abuse of the rules by their owners and management ……………

The same supporters who benefited from the breach , I see they are really sorry for other clubs supporters who suffered as a consequence ....

 

[CityInPeace]

Briefly followed this on Talk Sport, don't like him in general but Simon Jordan comes into his own when we get onto legalities- anyway I believe the stadium costs have been discounted (rightly IMO) and a good chunk of other debt 'because Covid'. My issue with all of this is the random points deduction figure; is it a league point for each £2m over, or is it just enough points to look like they've been punished but not really? Both of Chelsea and Man City will be in serious trouble if found guilty now a precedent has been set with Everton and I'll wager they aren't the only ones on the line.

There was a loose formula but not set in stone otherwise it would tie the hands of a future Commission.

6 points as a starting poont ie a breach.

Then 1 point per £5m over.

Coincidentally the Everton case pretty much fitted that, 6 points then £19.5m over..could argue 9 at minimum.

 

[CityInPeace]

Hi all, what a major call that was.

I don't think the punishment is timely enough, perhaps not even big enough but a 10 point deduction will make clubs think twice, especially if there is more of a clear formula.

Last season it would have sent Everton down for sure, quite possibly in 2021-22 as well. Burnley, Leicester and more for place by once prize money Leeds, surely have grounds to be aggrieved...and yet neither of the last two of them have a clean clean history albeit all were surely complaint with P&S in the year they went down unlike Everton.

 

[CityInPeace]

On assorted other cases, a few brief views fwiw...

Man City

Who the hell knows, when it'll be heard..charges so numerous and severe that they'll try anything and everything is one way to look at it.

Chelsea

(A) The charges currently referred to are historic, may or may not take a while.

(B) They could very easily fail FFP in the 3 years to 5his sesson. Had a pre tax loss of £115m in 2021-22 despite and including over £120m in Profit on Disposal of Players. Think the underlying loss was £242m before tax!? It's hard to track them, as they have brought and sold so many under Boehly but despite the long contracts must have pushed significantly. Ukraine war was dismissed as an excuse for Everton by the Panel, precedent?

Nottingham Forest

I'm not so sure 5bat they've breached or will breach to this year. Promotion earns them an extra £100m in TV momey and £16.5m in FFP headroom given Covid averaging minus of course any they've exceeded it by in the 2 years before 2022-23.

To this year it's £83m plus allowables. My question is did they breach it on the way up in 2021-22?? £93-94m before tax vs a £39m limit albeit before any deductions.

I found their Covid Loss in 2021-22 to be suspect.. how.does it go from £8m or so in each of 2019-20 and 2020-21, so average £8-8.5m to £12m or so in 2021-22, the most normal year of the 3..EFL had a proposed limit for thst year of.£2.5m, you calculate using that they definitely exceed IMO.

A few less likely but possible

Man United of all sides??

Well they lost £149m before tax, before deductions in 2021-22 and £32m in 2022-23. Yeah there will be good deductions but I wonder to this year.. that £149m and £32m wasn't exact, may rise to aggregated pre tax losses of £182m.

Fulham

Again not necessarily to this year, like Nottingham Forest and Bournemouth £83m Upper Loss limit. I wonder a bit..still £72m plus allowables to laat year but being Parachutes vs PL means £50-60m, £70m tops rise in TV as opposed to say Nottingham Forest who got a nice boost to TV and headroom.

2018-19 -£20m
2019-20 -£48m
2020-21 -£93m
2021-22 -£57m

Do remember, 2019-20 and 2020-21 were aggregated and halved due to Covid, remember too yoyoing meant 2 PL Upper Loss limit of £35m and 2 Championship of £13m. Plus allowables which left a neat number of £72m plus Covid plus Allowables but those losses are huge. Probably fine but I think they need a closer look like Nottingham Forest to 2022.

The challenge is to get £147-148m down to £72m. Doable but tough? Remember double edged sword, aggregated and halved e.g. Promotion bonus of £15m in 2019-20 if so would drop to £7.5m across those 2 Covid years.

 

[CityInPeace]

Two more.

I also had:

1) Concerns about Wolves to this summer albeit they offloaded massively this summer go the extent that Lopetegui was even lost. I think they are surely fine now. Some Wolves fans are sceptical as to whether they were in as much trouble as their board made out.

2) Aston Villa to 2019..the stadium sale and leaseback, exceptional HS2 revenue saved from a hole of £40-45m. The first loophole now shut, the 2nd dumb luck by an accident of Geography, £36.6m and £14-15m respectively.

One odd thing albeit Sean Thornton maybe able to correct me here, why given the transaction was in 2019, May 2019 does the sale price still sit on the Balance Sheet. Surely Current Assets tend to be 12 months or less, often anyway.

Says repayable on demand but does this not cross into Current Asset type territory.

 

[Belvedere Blade]

 

[Proper Blade]

Oh look - Everton fans are booing and raising red cards and singing about how corrupt the Premier League is.

I listened to the Price of Football podcast the other day, which did a deep dive into all this business.

As far as I can see, they completely fucking deserved a points deduction. Some of the excuses they put forward for overspending included:

• They couldn't sell two of their players because of COVID
• Usmanov's company had to pull out of a naming rights deal for their new stadium (signed 4+ years before it was due to open ) because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine
• They argued that they only lost £7m after deductions, not £20m

After listening to it, I'm actually flabbergasted that people are up in arms about this. I wonder if any Everton fans have actually gone through these charges in detail? They should have had more points deducted for wasting the commission's time with these shit excuses.

Not only are we competing against teams with way more resources than us, we're also competing against teams who will happily flout the rules to outspend us by even more.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

Oh dear, Man U are struggling in the expected cauldron at Everton today after the ‘unjust’ deduction of ten points.

They're only winning 3-0.

 

[ATL Recs]

Oh look - Everton fans are booing and raising red cards and singing about how corrupt the Premier League is.

I listened to the Price of Football podcast the other day, which did a deep dive into all this business.

As far as I can see, they completely fucking deserved a points deduction. Some of the excuses they put forward for overspending included:

• They couldn't sell two of their players because of COVID
• Usmanov's company had to pull out of a naming rights deal for their new stadium (signed 4+ years before it was due to open ) because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine
• They argued that they only lost £7m after deductions, not £20m

After listening to it, I'm actually flabbergasted that people are up in arms about this. I wonder if any Everton fans have actually gone through these charges in detail? They should have had more points deducted for wasting the commission's time with these shit excuses.

Not only are we competing against teams with way more resources than us, we're also competing against teams who will happily flout the rules to outspend us by even more.

Yes some do listen and accept it
what they think is wrong is the total amount of points deducted

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Yes some do listen and accept it
what they think is wrong is the total amount of points deducted

Me too. Should have been at least 20.

 

[Muttley]

Me too. Should have been at least 20.

Should be a statutory punishment of relegation for cheating.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Should be a statutory punishment of relegation for cheating.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[itsinyerblood]

My antennae suggests that most club's supporters would sing in unison about the Everton supporter's whinge, "Take it on the chin mofos, take it on the chin".

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Everton are staying up, seen it on here. Wank team