English managers

[BushBlade]

I suspect it’s partly because for a long period of time only the same four clubs got into the CL or won the league. So, unless they were prepared to give an English manager a chance, it was difficult to step up from being a Dyche to a Pep. Klopp, for example, was able to get the Dortmund job, where he won the league and got to a CL final. Why would you choose any English manager over a manager with that kind of track record?
If you’re a big club in the PL, you’re looking at choosing from the top twenty managers in the world. It’s not that likely that many of those will be English, why would they be?

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

In fairness, English managers only get the chance to manage top clubs if they were a big name player, like Lampard.

In other countries, managers like Howe, Dyche and Wilder would've probably got a big job by now. Max Allegri got the Milan job after finishing 9th in Serie A with Cagliari, for example. Klopp got the Dortmund job after getting promoted (and then relegated) with Mainz. They do well at smaller clubs and then get given a chance at a big club. An equivalent club in this country seems less likely to do something like that.

 

[Bennyand the Blades]

Let's face it , we've lost the game, it's gone world wide and in order to keep it that way and the cash flowing the game is changing at a faster and faster pace.
It will not be long before the match is lengthened to two hours to accommodate two 15 minuets breaks for adverts on the TV and in ground sales, there will be 11 substitutes, who can be brought on and taken off at any time during the game as tactic demand...
And then they will build 20 massive stadiums around the world for a league of 20 teams, and it will all be run from it's head quarters in America.

Trust me, I've seen the future .......

 

[jt64]

Which English manager would you employ to win the premier League title?

At Man City, any of them

 

[blade67]

At Man City, any of them

Maybe, but if you were richest club in the world you aren't going to employ Sean Dyche when you can have a multiple champions league winner instead.

 

[blade67]

How did English clubs get on in Europe in the 1970s and 80s (before the ban)?

They did very well, especially Brian Clough and a series of Liverpool managers.

I think the point I was making was that during and slightly after that phase, European countries went mad on training coaches and valueing that role.

In 2017 Spain had 15 times more qualified coaches per capita than England. It's hardly surpising that they end up with better ones than us.

In addition I suppose the cash flying around is probably more important. If you are a top 10 English side you can afford to buy in coaches who've won the big trophies already, whereas in most countries, most teams have to take a chance.

Thinking about your comment is Joe Fagan the last Englishman to win the European cup?

 

[Snowflake]

What nationality is Leicester's manager them ?

Not English with that accent !

 

[Snowflake]

Maybe English managers should work abroad for a few seasons and then come back.
Many of our top Premiership managers have worked in more than one country and speak decent English

 

[Geordie Blade]

They did very well, especially Brian Clough and a series of Liverpool managers.

I think the point I was making was that during and slightly after that phase, European countries went mad on training coaches and valueing that role.

In 2017 Spain had 15 times more qualified coaches per capita than England. It's hardly surpising that they end up with better ones than us.

In addition I suppose the cash flying around is probably more important. If you are a top 10 English side you can afford to buy in coaches who've won the big trophies already, whereas in most countries, most teams have to take a chance.

Thinking about your comment is Joe Fagan the last Englishman to win the European cup?

I completely agree that there’s a gap between English and overseas managers now, but I disagree that it’s a legacy from those days.

I think it’s more explained by the point you made about training and qualifications. Football is so much more tactical now than it was back then. Overseas managers (in this country) tend to be well travelled and that often means that they’ve been exposed to many types of playing style, making them able to adapt to different scenarios. In addition, their travelling often means that they can easily communicate with players from lots of nationalities. For people like Mourhino and Guadiola, this is second nature whereas for some British managers it would be almost impossible. That didn’t really matter for Clough, Shankly etc. but it would be very limiting these days unless they could adapt.

 

[Upton_Blade]

Last time England had a top possibly world class manager was Bobby Robson imo.

Venables was up there too IMO but there haven't been many I agree.

Hoddle was showing signs of being capable of that level until he has his David Icke moment as well.

 

[tincan]

Since Manure etc mop up all the best youngsters, the players left to coach are technically inferior to the best.
Thus British coaches tend to have players who will run through walls for their career. Its the quality that satisfies many supporters.
Foreign coaches tend to focus on the technical ability that means if you retain the ball you don't have to run through walls, and so limit the chronic injuries that weaken the team. It does also mean that energy is a key trait and so muscle injuries are expected and so thus academies produce players who can slot in with energy and replace them.
British managers success is due to this and his failure is due to the same stubborness in believing buying McBurnie types to lump it to when the going gets tough is an answer to technically better players.

 

[SittingontheBall]

Maybe English managers should work abroad for a few seasons and then come back.
Many of our top Premiership managers have worked in more than one country and speak decent English

Yes.....Steve McClaren for one

 

[guancheblade]

In fairness, English managers only get the chance to manage top clubs if they were a big name player, like Lampard.

In other countries, managers like Howe, Dyche and Wilder would've probably got a big job by now. Max Allegri got the Milan job after finishing 9th in Serie A with Cagliari, for example. Klopp got the Dortmund job after getting promoted (and then relegated) with Mainz. They do well at smaller clubs and then get given a chance at a big club. An equivalent club in this country seems less likely to do something like that.

This is the irony... in the foreign leagues the big successful clubs tend to employ managers of the same nationality as the club.

The fashion in the PL is to recruit coaches from the best clubs in Europe. As these clubs never employ British coaches, they will never have opportunities to prove themselves.

So why are they not considered abroad? Maybe British coaches just aren't as good full stop?

 

[Badger Blade]

In terms of British managers abroad, there's been no level of success since the 80's/90's when Bobby Robson, Terry Venables and John Toshack were in Spain.

Might be down to the stereotype of English coaches in that Mike Bassett-type mould, like what we saw under Blackwell, where it's percentage football, no technical skill whatsoever, hootball etc.

I never played football to any kind of level but 15-20 years ago when I was at school, we were coached to hit long balls, kick people, hit it down the channels and almost play for territory, Rugby Union style.

Potentially explains why there are barely any English footballers in their early 30's who are ripping it up at the top level and no English managers right at the top because most of those managers were brought up on muck and nettles football and know no different so it's needed the likes of Wenger as the first port of call to blaze a trail for other foreign managers after him to change the mindset and see the likes of Pulis, Allardyce, Warnock, Ternent etc consigned to history. Alex Ferguson had Carlos Queiroz and Rene Meulensteen alongside him for some of their best years so it's not like the best got by without any foreign influence either.

 

[SilkyBlade]

Mind you, what do you expect with so many foreign players ?
you've got have somebody who understands what their saying.......

I do think this plays such a crucial role...the top PL managers speak several languages having worked in a number of different countries and understand the subtle cultural differences and perhaps better understand how to motivate different nationalities/mould a group of international players into a single team. Rodgers speaks fluent Spanish, Italian and French by way of an example

 

[Stu_Blade]

Maybe English managers should work abroad for a few seasons and then come back.
Many of our top Premiership managers have worked in more than one country and speak decent English

When you look at Roy Hodgson the teams and countries he has managed is random. Not saying it qualifies you to be a good Premiership coach but most of the overseas coaches do the rounds in Italy/France then a bigger move to Germany/Spain then the Premiership is looking. Exceptions such as Ralph Hasenhüttl who I personally rate apart from his time at Leipzig wasnt at any other club of note but apart from the random thumpings has adapted well to the Premier League and their fans don't like their owner (Gao)

 

[Nagima]

I think part of the problem is the disparity between the top clubs and the bottom in the PL in terms of size and resources. This leads to the perception that managers of the lower clubs would not be successful at the top clubs. It's easier to pick a manager who has success in another league. They are considered proven but may have had an easier time getting to where they are. I think there are alot of great English managers who don't get the chance they deserve

 

[Gannon's perm]

It's not just in the Premier League though. Only one manager in the top 6 of the Championship is British (Welsh). The bottom 6 has four English managers though.

 

[gurru991]

Not saying I disagree, and would be hard to pick a good British manager out now, but again if all the top clubs (the ones with the resources to throw around) give the roles to foreign managers then the gap, or perceived gap, only widens.

Brendan Rodgers.

 

[scouseblade]

Without checking I think it may be Howard Wilkinson with Leeds Utd in 1992??

Correct.

 

[scouseblade]

What nationality is Leicester's manager them ?

Northern Irish. Have you heard him speak?

 

[HibbyBlade]

Maybe English managers should work abroad for a few seasons and then come back.
Many of our top Premiership managers have worked in more than one country and speak decent English

Same issue with British players in my opinion. Can't see beyond having a crack at the EPL. Not every player or manager will be suited to learning their craft here.

 

[Balham]

The bottom six have English managers and the top eight do not.
Is it because only the big clubs can afford top managers and if so why are there no top English managers ?
When did an English manager last win the top division title ?

There have been 11 top flight winning managers since Howard Wilkinson was the last Englishman. Alex Ferguson was the last Brit in 2012/13.
Scotland 14 (2 managers)
Italy 4 (4 managers)
France 3 (1 manager)
Portugal 3 (1 manager)
Spain 2 (1 manager)
Chile 1
Germany 1

2020/21 ?
2019/20 Jürgen Klopp (Germany)
2018/19 Pep Guardiola (Spain)
2017/18 Pep Guardiola (Spain)
2016/17 Antonio Conte (Italy)
2015/16 Claudio Ranieri (Italy)
2014/15 José Mourinho (Portugal)
2013/14 Manuel Pellegrini (Chile)
2012/13 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2011/12 Roberto Mancini (Italy)
2010/11 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2009/10 Carlo Ancelotti (Italy)
2008/09 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2007/08 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2006/07 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2005/06 José Mourinho (Portugal)
2004/05 José Mourinho (Portugal)
2003/04 Arsène Wenger (France)
2002/03 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2001/02 Arsène Wenger (France)
2000/01 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1999/00 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1998/99 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1997/98 Arsène Wenger (France)
1996/97 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1995/96 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1994/95 Kenny Dalgleish (Scotland)
1993/94 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1992/93 Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1991/92 Howard Wilkinson (England)