email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[Rudders]

Presume we cant upgrade the Kop anyway as Superblade has ransom strips all round it!
No bigger blade than me Seth.
I wonder if the Council would CPO the land if we offered a cycle lane in a tunnel beneath a newly rebuilt Kop?!

 

[Dkc]

Problem is, Prince wants to sell. Rail seating would benefit the club financially over the long term through increased capacity, but the return will not be seen for many years if we're outside the PL. He'll see any improvements to the kop as throwing money away.

Something needs to be done soon though, as the complete closure of the kop will reduce income immediately.

They can perhaps clear the gangways if they send in the heavies, but i can't see how they can police the one-person one-seat rule if people continue to stand. And whatever people think they 'should' do, fans at the top of D, E, F and G are 100% not going to remain seated all game.

 

[Stand United]

There is no safe standing section at most of those clubs & no safe standing section in almost any away end

Every club with a safe standing licence in the top two divisions has provided safe standing in the away end. It’s a key part of the current licensing criteria. Clubs that have rail seating only in home areas have done so improve safety where there’s persistent standing, but they cannot sell tickets in those areas as a standing area. Highly likely that those clubs will be encouraged sooner rather than later to provide provision in away ends, so the quirk of rail seats in areas not licensed for standing may not last too much longer.

This is because at higher levels of English football, there is still a requirement for all-seater stadia. You will still have a seat because it is still technically a seated area, your seat is not locked out of use like it would be if it was a standing area. That the seats are rail seats, and people will turn a blind eye to people persistently standing, and that it is caveat emptor if people want to buy a ticket for those areas and sit down there, does not make it officially a standing area. I hoard bits of paper, and can show you what a ticket looks like if it is actually a standing area, and the absence of a row/seat number therein

Possibly splitting hairs here, but as of July, the changes made to the Football Supporters Act gives the SGSA the flexibility to provide licensed standing in seating areas. If a club meets the criteria to get an approved licensed standing area, then they can sell tickets for that standing area, as per their licence. These can for all intents and purposes be described as official standing areas, as enforcement of all-seater laws will not apply. Part of the SGSA guidance states: “Purchasers of tickets for licensed standing areas must be informed at the point of sale, and on the ticket itself, that spectators in the area in question will be standing during the activity”.

It’s done differently abroad of course where seats can be locked in place and there’s more than 1:1 fans allowed in those areas (which plenty campaigning on safe standing are incidentally optimistic will be allowed at some point in the future). But there shouldn’t be any doubt here that licensed standing areas, far from being simply a means of turning a blind eye to persistent standing, are what they say on the tin – areas where you are given an active green light to stand for 90 minutes.

 

[bladesmanluke]

Problem is, Prince wants to sell. Rail seating would benefit the club financially over the long term through increased capacity, but the return will not be seen for many years if we're outside the PL. He'll see any improvements to the kop as throwing money away.

Something needs to be done soon though, as the complete closure of the kop will reduce income immediately.

They can perhaps clear the gangways if they send in the heavies, but i can't see how they can police the one-person one-seat rule if people continue to stand. And whatever people think they 'should' do, fans at the top of D, E, F and G are 100% not going to remain seated all game.

I just hope the powers that be will settle for a continuation of standing, perhaps even more in terms of area of the kop in return for the gangways being cleared. It's not an insignificant number that stand in the gangways and they will stand elsewhere. Hopefully so long as this is in a seat this can all settle down. It's just going to piss off a few rows of sitters that have to reacquaint themselves with standers lower down the Kop.

 

[S64 Blade]

It’d be interesting to know what happens next. Let’s say the “problem” subsides, are we allowed to sell tickets as before? How long can’t we sell match day tickets for? What if the issue reappears, then what?

 

[bartman]

Rail seating would benefit the club financially over the long term through increased capacity, but the return will not be seen for many years if we're outside the PL. He'll see any improvements to the kop as throwing money away.

Rail seating on the Kop would reduce capacity as each 'seat' would need more room. To increase capacity we would need a newly built Kop, possibly sponsored and maybe double tiers with exec boxes splitting the tiers to try and cover the costs quicker.

The Kop/JSS corner may be best to trial it along with, maybe, the BLLT if we are prepared to give a lower allocation to the away fans and place them in the BLUT at the side nearest to the old Enterprise Centre.

 

[S64 Blade]

Rail seating on the Kop would reduce capacity as each 'seat' would need more room. To increase capacity we would need a newly built Kop, possibly sponsored and maybe double tiers with exec boxes splitting the tiers to try and cover the costs quicker.

The Kop/JSS corner may be best to trial it along with, maybe, the BLLT if we are prepared to give a lower allocation to the away fans and place them in the BLUT at the side nearest to the old Enterprise Centre.

Good idea on trialling it on the JSS corner. It’s not overly popular and it’d be an ideal isolated spot to trial it.

 

[Stand United]

Rail seating on the Kop would reduce capacity as each 'seat' would need more room.

That’s something we’ve heard a lot, and one of the main reasons we produced an FAQs section of our site. It’s simply not true to say all types of rail seating need more room. There are options available that wouldn’t lead to a capacity reduction.

FAQs — Stand United

www.standunited.uk

 

[bartman]

That’s something we’ve heard a lot, and one of the main reasons we produced an FAQs section of our site. It’s simply not true to say all types of rail seating need more room. There are options available that wouldn’t lead to a capacity reduction.

FAQs — Stand United

www.standunited.uk

Surely the shallowness of the Kop is an issue ? Maybe not

The main issue at the moment thou, as mentioned previously, is how do you get fans to sit/stand in the space they are allocated. Rail seating by itself wouldn't resolve this

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Because the very mention of caring about atmosphere has historically been ridiculed in places like this, which should be the campaigning ground for change, for some reason.

I have no idea how one of the most passionate fan bases has turned into what it has.

This works both ways. I am all for a loud and even intimidating atmosphere, and do believe it can make a difference. But I don’t see why those that do not wish to make noise should be dismissed as second-rate, not least because in many cases they may be be newcomers to the Lane or newcomers to football, and end up being regulars. And some people enjoy watching and analysing the football, believe it or not. It is not in the terms and conditions that you can’t sing; nor that you must sing. We should all be able to respect that.

 

[puppet]

Fucking WEF globalists.

They are. They have been working towards Agenda 2021 (all traces removed from the SCC website about three years ago when it changed to Agenda 2030)

 

[Dnblade]

Rail seating on the Kop would reduce capacity as each 'seat' would need more room. To increase capacity we would need a newly built Kop, possibly sponsored and maybe double tiers with exec boxes splitting the tiers to try and cover the costs quicker.

The Kop/JSS corner may be best to trial it along with, maybe, the BLLT if we are prepared to give a lower allocation to the away fans and place them in the BLUT at the side nearest to the old Enterprise Centre.

I think I read Liverpool were installing 7800 rail seats which would increase the capacity by 6 or 7k,so not sure why it would decrease at the Lane.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

The Kop - Sponsored by the Third Reich!

(Return of) brown away jersey next season?

 

[bartman]

I think I read Liverpool were installing 7800 rail seats which would increase the capacity by 6 or 7k,so not sure why it would decrease at the Lane.

Isn't that in the new stand they are going to build which will be larger than the existing one ? ( the away end)

 

[Dnblade]

Isn't that in the new stand they are going to build which will be larger than the existing one ? ( the away end)

Not sure, you could be right there mate.. I just read it would increase the capacity, I don't remember any details about a new stand or anything.

 

[varkanoid]

Isn't that in the new stand they are going to build which will be larger than the existing one ? ( the away end)

Yeah I saw the plans when we went on the Tour.

 

[MonmouthshireBlade]

Rail seating on the Kop would reduce capacity as each 'seat' would need more room. To increase capacity we would need a newly built Kop, possibly sponsored and maybe double tiers with exec boxes splitting the tiers to try and cover the costs quicker.

The Kop/JSS corner may be best to trial it along with, maybe, the BLLT if we are prepared to give a lower allocation to the away fans and place them in the BLUT at the side nearest to the old Enterprise Centre.

They would want to keep a safe standing section isolated and away for the visiting support so JSS corner would be ideal. It was the last standing area in the ground was it not?

 

[AnotherBlade]

Fucking WEF globalists.

You can't attack globalism anymore as it apparently means you are anti-Semitic. I fucking despise the left with every fibre of my being!!

 

[alcoblade]

This works both ways. I am all for a loud and even intimidating atmosphere, and do believe it can make a difference. But I don’t see why those that do not wish to make noise should be dismissed as second-rate, not least because in many cases they may be be newcomers to the Lane or newcomers to football, and end up being regulars. And some people enjoy watching and analysing the football, believe it or not. It is not in the terms and conditions that you can’t sing; nor that you must sing. We should all be able to respect that.

You should take that up with someone who thinks people who don't sing are second rate.

(though predicting where this line is going, they do occupy 99% of all seats already).

 

[alcoblade]

Surely the shallowness of the Kop is an issue ? Maybe not

The main issue at the moment thou, as mentioned previously, is how do you get fans to sit/stand in the space they are allocated. Rail seating by itself wouldn't resolve this

Those who are determined to sit where they've always sat and are offended by people standing in front of them would quickly move from areas designated to rail seating. Then there would be enough room for those who wanted to do so.

I think it would solve all these issues.

 

[Addison]

That’s something we’ve heard a lot, and one of the main reasons we produced an FAQs section of our site. It’s simply not true to say all types of rail seating need more room. There are options available that wouldn’t lead to a capacity reduction.

FAQs — Stand United

www.standunited.uk

Very interesting particularly the point about specific types of rail seating not impacting on capacity. The big miss from your article is what are the potential costs of installation for say a section of 8 rows at the back of the Kop. How long will it take to install? Perhaps providing examples of costs at other grounds would be useful to support your campaign and if you are in consultation with rail providers are they willing to provide a guesstimate relevant to SUFC?

In view of the mayhem caused by the statement at the beginning of this thread now may be an appropriate time to raise the issue with the Club. Have you contacted the Club previously about this? Good luck with that though my experience is they go into dismissive defensive mode when you suggest improvements to how they operate.

 

[Harry's Game]

Problem is, Prince wants to sell. Rail seating would benefit the club financially over the long term through increased capacity, but the return will not be seen for many years if we're outside the PL. He'll see any improvements to the kop as throwing money away.

Something needs to be done soon though, as the complete closure of the kop will reduce income immediately.

They can perhaps clear the gangways if they send in the heavies, but i can't see how they can police the one-person one-seat rule if people continue to stand. And whatever people think they 'should' do, fans at the top of D, E, F and G are 100% not going to remain seated all game.

I am confident the Whole kop will not be closed, it will just be the 8-10 rows at the back netted off After the World cup. that will become permanent though.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

You should take that up with someone who thinks people who don't sing are second rate.

(though predicting where this line is going, they do occupy 99% of all seats already).

To expand on your original comment, what has the most passionate fan base turned into? I assumed you were being critical of most people

 

[Digs blade]

I know it’s only part of the discussion but i’ll say again is there evidence of continuous/substantial blocking of gangways.

Like I said on an earlier post since god was a lad there has been people working their way to the top of the kop a few mins from the end and undoubtedly stood in the gangways for that short period of time but I’m interpreting by some comments on here that there is a big issue with people permanently stood in the gangways.

I’m not certain that is the case.

 

[Jose Baxter's Baby]

Having eventually caught up on this thread and after reading the statement it has caused exactly what I thought it would. Division.
What I mean by that is fans who sit in other areas of the ground now worried about the big bad lads from the back of the kop coming and sitting near them and causing trouble. Meanwhile those in the kop are now worried their seat may no longer be available should the stand close. Again all eyes are on those 10 rows at the back as the black sheep.
The point I want to make as a supporter who is having to stand on one of those 10 rows is that, the only reason I stand is because that's where my seat is and always has been for the last 15 years and the rows in front of me are stood up. I could move seats, I could complain to a steward. I don't as I enjoy the company of those around me, they make the matchday experience more enjoyable for me and being sat/stood in the area where the atmosphere is generated is entirely rewarding. I also respect that as adults they are free to decide whether to sit or stand during a 90 minute football match and should an injury occur I understand that is entirely my own fault through a choice I made. Neither Sheffield Council or Sheffield United are accountable.
Now, the massive elephant in the room, the actual problem. I have witnessed this numerous times since getting promoted from league 1, getting to my seat and finding friends and family members of people stood in my allocated seat, squashing the whole row up and causing people to form on the gangways. That is what is being targeted with stopping selling match day tickets and that is what will ease SAG and SCC's collective worries and threats.

 

[alcoblade]

To expand on your original comment, what has the most passionate fan base turned into.........

...........A less passionate fan base.

You've drawn the conclusion that that makes them second class supporters. For me, it makes them different, but not second class.

But of course if your aim is to create a noisy atmosphere that actually helps the team as you suggested above, on that measure alone there's no other conclusion than it is just not as good

There's zero doubt that the support is less passionate than it once was. That's throughout football, more at some clubs than others.

 

[Bert]

There's zero doubt that the support is less passionate than it once was. That's throughout football, more at some clubs than others

The last half hour against Norwich was as noisy and lively as it ever was 50 years ago.

 

[Dkc]

I am confident the Whole kop will not be closed, it will just be the 8-10 rows at the back netted off After the World cup. that will become permanent though.

Where will they house the s/t holders who will be forced to move? It won't be easy to move 2-300 'standers', many of whom have seats next to their mates.

 

[jt64]

Where will they house the s/t holders who will be forced to move? It won't be easy to move 2-300 'standers', many of whom have seats next to their mates.

BLUT would be the obvious choice

 

[Dkc]

BLUT would be the obvious choice

Ricky's singing section could finally become a reality then!