Doyle...

[BerksBlade]

Worse than getting sent off - it meant the remaining 10 players had to chase around a lot more on a heavy pitch.
If that's taken something out of them for Wednesday's game (which is more important IMO) and potentially affected the result then Doyle needs a proper bollocking.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned it but did anyone else see Doyle 'do' Karagounis off the ball first half? Idiocy. Seems I was the only one to see it at the time. He should have walked for that.

Can't say I did but I've seen him do this sort of sneaky thing, tens of times, we all have. He tends to try and do it away from the ref. He managed to commit 2 offences right in front of the ref - stupid.

Surely we can find a central midfielder and an alternative leader. That's what I want Clough to be doing. Doyle isn't good enough to get us where we want to be.

Unfortunately his contract isn't up this season. I still want someone else next season.

 

[sheffielder]

Hey Sheff! That's twice in a week I've been labelled an idiot on here, maybe I am eh?
Sleep may be difficult to come by tonight knowing I've transgressed in Sheffielder's opinion of me Listen, if Michael is indeed my lovechild, I am going to defend him through thick and thin.
Will Clough be an idiot when he sticks him back as skipper in 3 games time? In your book, he will no doubt.[/quote

There is a difference, I doubt very much that clough would be stupid enough to defend Doyle's actions in public like your good self. I duly expect a statement ok clough saying how stupid he was AND that he is not playing on concord so he should know better. Question is whether the players will forgive him. I wouldn't.

 

[LSF]

Hey come on Sheff, lets be accurate here if you are going to call me names Where have I defended Doyle on this occasion? If you've read my posts on this thread, I started by saying he was a fool, immature, blah blah blah blah. Hardly defending his actions in getting sent off is it? Or are you just putting your spin on my posts in order to have a go?

 

[Rossb123]

Fulham were there for the taking and Doyle cost us. We wont win at Fulham I personally don't think, therefore we have lost out on the £100k (or whatever it is) for getting to the next round. I would try and get rid of him before the transfer window closes and bring in a short term replacement until the end of the season. Collins or Maguire should take over the armband, he is a massive hindrance for us, the pass he gave away yesterday after we scored proved that. He is slow, cant pass and has a bad temperament. We are in are relegation battle and we cant afford to carry players that aren't good enough. Time to go Doyle.

 

[Guesty]

Who said he didn't deserve to be sent off Guesty? Of course he did and he let his team mates down on the day, however beyond that, it will be dealt with internally by Clough and that (whatever Clough's action on it) will be that. Your sarcasm is just a tad misplaced in your reply to me

Your rhetoric about getting one over one some dirty fucker who's transgressed seems designed to paint Doyle in the light of some sort of justice-dispersing midfield enforce, when in fact the whole incident was his fault and he just acted the prick.

 

[bartman]

Doyle himself gets a free pass from far too many on here, For all that Bulletnut claims 'No one is defending Doyle, no one is apologising for him' we have plenty of posters suggesting that at Pub level or whatever this goes on all the time. Well that's as may be but Doyle is supposed to be a fucking professional and to do what he did, right in front of the Ref, is anything but.

And the old 'several managers have seen fit blah blah blah' chestnut. All the managers so far who have made Doyle captain have left the club in a worse position than they found it and all will go down as failures for their time at the Lane (albeit perhaps a tad harshly in Wilson's case). Clough may well buck the trend and I certainly hope he does. But for people to use the 'several managers' argument in support of Doyle when for all other purposes the views of Adams and Weir are dismissed out of hand strikes me as very disingenuous.

Agree that Doyle deserved to go yesterday and treated the same as Brandy. However, if a 'favourite' player had done this (e.g. Morgan, Maguire, Santos-remember the Johnson tackle) rather than a scapegoat (for want of a better word) would have there been a similar reaction ? I remember Lowton getting sent off at home to Oldham for a rash OTT challenge but not get the reaction that Doyle has now ! Indeed, Lowton got sent off twice in two seasons with us. How do you think the Man Ure fans reacted when Keane tried to break Harland's leg ?

Some fans seem to want to forgive Brandy for his two sending offs this season(one after about 5 minutes when he reacted to a tackle rather than a foul) rather than Doyle who has been sent off twice in 3 and a half seasons with us

He may not be the best player/captain we have got or ever had,he certainly was a prick yesterday and he certainly shouldn't be with us long term but I sincerely hope that, once his suspension is over and if he has earned his placed back in the team, the fans judge him on his performances in the game rather than one incident in a season where he has played reasonably well.

,

 

[LSF]

Your rhetoric about getting one over one some dirty fucker who's transgressed seems designed to paint Doyle in the light of some sort of justice-dispersing midfield enforce, when in fact the whole incident was his fault and he just acted the prick.

He did act like a prick and deserved getting sent off. All I'm saying is that if you've never acted like a prick before and got sent off or whatever (I certainly have on more than one occasion), then you are truly a saint.
In summary, not defending his actions, they cost us dearly, just trying to understand that humans have failings and its as though some people can't grasp this.
Last word on subject from me, its watter under t'bridge now. I'll be interested to see how Clough handles his punishment, short and long term. UTB!

 

[Guesty]

Agree that Doyle deserved to go yesterday and treated the same as Brandy. However, if a 'favourite' player had done this (e.g. Morgan, Maguire, Santos-remember the Johnson tackle) rather than a scapegoat (for want of a better word) would have there been a similar reaction ? I remember Lowton getting sent off at home to Oldham for a rash OTT challenge but not get the reaction that Doyle has now ! Indeed, Lowton got sent off twice in two seasons with us. How do you think the Man Ure fans reacted when Keane tried to break Harland's leg ?

Some fans seem to want to forgive Brandy for his two sending offs this season(one after about 5 minutes when he reacted to a tackle rather than a foul) rather than Doyle who has been sent off twice in 3 and a half seasons with us

He may not be the best player/captain we have got or ever had,he certainly was a prick yesterday and he certainly shouldn't be with us long term but I sincerely hope that, once his suspension is over and if he has earned his placed back in the team, the fans judge him on his performances in the game rather than one incident in a season where he has played reasonably well.

,

I was furious at Lowton and my posts from the time will back that up. I fully believe that he cost us promotion that season (not only did we lose the Oldham game but shorn of him and Maguire we lost mid-week to Walsall). I'm glad Lowton is no longer at the club for that very reason. Similarly I have no love whatsoever for Brandy and wanted him bombed out (at least one loan) as soon as possible. The difference between Lowton and Brandy/Doyle is that Lowton acted stupidly but Brandy and Doyle were mardy and petulant, reacting badly to situations that were largely their fault (Brandy's miss, Doyle geting a bloody mouth).

As for Keane I imagine a lot of Manchester United fans were disgusted by his actions. On the other hand he probably had built up a store of credit with their fans by leading his team to a Champions League final, rather than, say, the relegation zone of the third tier to pick and example entirely at random.

 

[Guesty]

He did act like a prick and deserved getting sent off. All I'm saying is that if you've never acted like a prick before and got sent off or whatever (I certainly have on more than one occasion), then you are truly a saint.
In summary, not defending his actions, they cost us dearly, just trying to understand that humans have failings and its as though some people can't grasp this.
Last word on subject from me, its watter under t'bridge now. I'll be interested to see how Clough handles his punishment, short and long term. UTB!

Unwarranted stamps are not the sort of failings a professional footballer and captain should have. Especially not more than once! A bad pass, fine. A misstimed tackle, fine. Hell, even reacting badly to a tackle once or twice, fine. An apparently premeditated stamp, completely off the ball (when you've got previous with such offences) unforgivable.

 

[sitwell]

Apparently we were better when Doyle went off ,but he cost us the game getting sent off ,amazing the lengths some will go to. Im all for criticizing players if you think they deserve it but some just go off the scale and seem to get off on hammering someone. Ill admit to not rating Hill at left back and not thinking Long is up to it at the moment but I would never go to the lengths some of you guys do to hang a player out to dry.
Who did he murder ?
Glynn Hodges , Michael Brown ,Trevor Hockey , Chris Morgan, Eddie Colquhoun did far worse things as did many more and it has became part of their folk lore. He didn't set out to get sent off ,but football is a physical and emotional game ,take that out of it you have nothing ,he got caught up and made a mistake ,get over it. His big mistake was getting caught ,to say sack him ,get rid of him ,we cant afford to carry him is a fucking joke and an embarrassment.
As for this captaincy bollocks, he has never asked to be captain ,is a far better player when not and has had it thrust on him because we haven't a leader in the club. Be interesting to see if Collins takes it on if offered ,because I cant see where else it can go until we get one in the summer.

 

[sitwell]

I was furious at Lowton and my posts from the time will back that up. I fully believe that he cost us promotion that season (not only did we lose the Oldham game but shorn of him and Maguire we lost mid-week to Walsall). I'm glad Lowton is no longer at the club for that very reason. Similarly I have no love whatsoever for Brandy and wanted him bombed out (at least one loan) as soon as possible. The difference between Lowton and Brandy/Doyle is that Lowton acted stupidly but Brandy and Doyle were mardy and petulant, reacting badly to situations that were largely their fault (Brandy's miss, Doyle geting a bloody mouth).

As for Keane I imagine a lot of Manchester United fans were disgusted by his actions. On the other hand he probably had built up a store of credit with their fans by leading his team to a Champions League final, rather than, say, the relegation zone of the third tier to pick and example entirely at random.

Why don't we just get rid of everyone ? sack sack sack that's the answer eh ?

 

[Guesty]

Why don't we just get rid of everyone ? sack sack sack that's the answer eh ?

Well everyone is tripping over themselves to say we should back Clough's judgement in this matter and his judgement was to bomb Brandy out asafp. Was he wrong to?

 

[sitwell]

I personally don't think Brandy was bombed out. His sending offs didn't help but the main problem for him was he has shown no form since the first game of the season whatsoever and Murphy and Flynn have come on leaps and bounds and are at this moment far better players. We cant afford to carry players who are just taking up space when other positions need priority.Even if we decide to sell him the goals he gets for Walsall will make us more money.

 

[Bladesway]

Well everyone is tripping over themselves to say we should back Clough's judgement in this matter and his judgement was to bomb Brandy out asafp. Was he wrong to?

Must have been his goals and assists per game ratio that we should have kept him for.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Doyle's actions yesterday were disgraceful - no one can defend the man who as captain of a third tier side gets sent off in such circumstances !
As for sacking him - I'm more for giving Coady the opportunity of replacing Doyle for the rest of the season - let Doyle fight for his place in the team!
As for a captain currently there's no one who stands out as a leader - but there again neither has Doyle !

 

[Guesty]

Must have been his goals and assists per game ratio that we should have kept him for.

To be fair I wouldn't disagree with whatever the grounds were. I think the red cards played a large part though.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

As for this captaincy bollocks, he has never asked to be captain ,is a far better player when not and has had it thrust on him because we haven't a leader in the club.

I agree with the bookends of that sentence, but what on earth did you see in the period for us when he wasn't captain (the memorable spell under Micky Adams) that suggested he played better then?

The comparison with Morgan isn't completely unfair in suggesting fans are willing to allow a fan favourite a bit more slack. But Morgan built up that respect from fans because he was a damned good player, put in consistently good performances for us and was quite clearly a vocal influential leader on the pitch. Were it just the challenge that people were reacting to, yes fair enough. But it's coupled with the fact that when you boil down to it, he's been poor for us far too often in the 3 years he's been here.

Feel free to correct me on this, but I can't recall any of Morgan's sendings off being comparable to that situation in terms of being game-changing. Yesterday was the type of sending off we saw with Gillespie (Reading away in 2007) and Henderson (Watford away in 2011) when you just knew at the time it happened that this was a needless, idiotic and completely unnecessary sending off that screwed any chance of getting a result. The ten that played on did brilliantly well, but in the end we were hanging on desperately. The signs of the second half leading up to the sending off suggested we could have gone on to increase the lead.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

I agree with the bookends of that sentence, but what on earth did you see in the period for us when he wasn't captain (the memorable spell under Micky Adams) that suggested he played better then?

The comparison with Morgan isn't completely unfair in suggesting fans are willing to allow a fan favourite a bit more slack. But Morgan built up that respect from fans because he was a damned good player, put in consistently good performances for us and was quite clearly a vocal influential leader on the pitch. Were it just the challenge that people were reacting to, yes fair enough. But it's coupled with the fact that when you boil down to it, he's been poor for us far too often in the 3 years he's been here.

Feel free to correct me on this, but I can't recall any of Morgan's sendings off being comparable to that situation in terms of being game-changing. Yesterday was the type of sending off we saw with Gillespie (Reading away in 2007) and Henderson (Watford away in 2011) when you just knew at the time it happened that this was a needless, idiotic and completely unnecessary sending off that screwed any chance of getting a result. The ten that played on did brilliantly well, but in the end we were hanging on desperately. The signs of the second half leading up to the sending off suggested we could have gone on to increase the lead.

I remember at least one occasion that Morgan walked for chinning an opponent. I think it may have been Gareth Taylor?

 

[metty]

I remember at least one occasion that Morgan walked for chinning an opponent. I think it may have been Gareth Taylor?

I remember us playing against Watford with him and Darius Henderson having a scrap and I know Morgs walked but can't remember if Hendo did.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I remember at least one occasion that Morgan walked for chinning an opponent. I think it may have been Gareth Taylor?

I was there for that - Forest away in 03/04 I believe. Warnock's post-match was fairly scathing as I recall. When he was handed the armband the following summer I'm fairly sure he said part of the reason was to make him take greater responsibility.

 

[Silent Blade]

I remember at least one occasion that Morgan walked for chinning an opponent. I think it may have been Gareth Taylor?

Yes we lost 3-1 at Forest

 

[FleaPitBlade]

At least Morgs did it right. If your going to walk for violent conduct then stamping on someone's foot is a bit girly.

 

[sheffielder]

We are in the bottom 4 at this moment in time and our captain, which I use in a loose term has got himself played then suspended for 3 games. That is the here and now, fuck what Morgan, Santos or anyone else did back in the day. It also really does seem that you comparing crimes against other players has become your last line of defence, so where is this captain fantastic when we need him on a wet Wednesday night against Peterborough?

People now defending Doyle are in the minority of fans who actually appreciate what he actually does for us. Doyle has done nothing for this club to even put himself in the same sentence as people like Morgan.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Paradoxically, and not necessarily in defence of Doyle, we've been far too nice for far too long. I want us to be nastier and I'm willing to accept a few more red cards if it's for the greater cause of teams knowing they're in for a scrap at BDTBL.

I think that's why it was accepted from Morgan - he got a lot of reds but that was the downside to the positive that many strikers were shit scared of him before they even got on the pitch.

 

[metalblade]

Quite unbelievable this thread, maybe some of the criticism is over the top but I am really astounded that some fans are defending Doyle. A bit bad when the best Doyle's apologists can come up with is Morgan, Santos, Brown, Hodges or any other competitive players past actions, most of which were done in the heat of the moment. Did Santos or Suffo ever play for United after their assaults on other players ? Doyle has always had a nasty streak to his game much like the dirty bastard JJ at Sheffield 6.
I want to see the team play hard but fair.
Doyle is not a hard man just a niggling sneaky shithouse who is ok dishing it out but can't take it back, not as crafty as he thinks he is just as thick as pig shit. How he is still at the club I will never know he must have compromising photo's of our Kev or summat. As for being a captain I suspect he'd struggle to captain a plastic boat in the bath.

 

[Bladesway]

We are in the bottom 4 at this moment in time and our captain, which I use in a loose term has got himself played then suspended for 3 games. That is the here and now, fuck what Morgan, Santos or anyone else did back in the day. It also really does seem that you comparing crimes against other players has become your last line of defence, so where is this captain fantastic when we need him on a wet Wednesday night against Peterborough?

People now defending Doyle are in the minority of fans who actually appreciate what he actually does for us. Doyle has done nothing for this club to even put himself in the same sentence as people like Morgan.

You know what the last line of defence really is? Telling other people they are in a minority to make your point.

 

[bladesman3]

But why are you so excited about it? You sound like you're frothing at the mouth for Gods sake. A rash moment by a not very good player is just that. FFS, he didn't go on a killing spree, it really isn't that big a deal and as stated above, it may work to our benefit in the long term...

I thought mine was a calm statement of the way I saw it....

 

[Bladesway]

Quite unbelievable this thread, maybe some of the criticism is over the top but I am really astounded that some fans are defending Doyle. A bit bad when the best Doyle's apologists can come up with is Morgan, Santos, Brown, Hodges or any other competitive players past actions, most of which were done in the heat of the moment. Did Santos or Suffo ever play for United after their assaults on other players ? Doyle has always had a nasty streak to his game much like the dirty bastard JJ at Sheffield 6.
I want to see the team play hard but fair.
Doyle is not a hard man just a niggling sneaky shithouse who is ok dishing it out but can't take it back, not as crafty as he thinks he is just as thick as pig shit. How he is still at the club I will never know he must have compromising photo's of our Kev or summat. As for being a captain I suspect he'd struggle to captain a plastic boat in the bath.

Seeing as he is one if our players I never expected you to like or defend him in the first place. If you cared to read no one is defending that what he did was stupid but the fact he is hardly the furst to have done it. Surely even you can see that.

 

[sheffielder]

You know what the last line of defence really is? Telling other people they are in a minority to make your point.

What am I defending?