Doyle...

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LSF said:
Fair points. I'll wager Doyle feels Clough's wrath, is fined, serves his suspension and will be back in the team as captain when next available.
If otherwise, then Clough really will be putting his marker down in the sand. We aren't yet in a position to throw aside our most experienced midfielder. Once we are safe (if ever), maybe then Clough will show his hand regards Doyle,
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Today proved not all experience is good.
 
If you can't stamp on a Premier League pansy then the game's gone to wank in a welly anyway. Fucking tart, what was up, did he get his little knees dirty?
 
I thought Doyle had turned a bit of a corner too. He's put in some decent performances over the last few weeks. But chuffin 'ell..that was pathetic. Sorry Michael Doyle, if you're going to continue you're niggly ways, become Michael Brown or get yourself to Blackpool
 
I had a good old rant about Doyle on twitter earlier, so i'll piece together those ramblings.

One man put a dampener on an exceptional team performance today and could very well cost us progressing in this competition. His attitude is disgusting and despite an improvement in his performance as a player/captain recently, he has shown his true character; thuggish, unprofessional and unreliable. Anyone suggesting that fans must get behind him because he is our captain, our only senior player etc. need to take a long hard look at the failures we've suffered during his tenure as our leader. He is without a doubt the worst captain I have witnessed during my lifetime. We let one useless influence on the team go this week (McMahon), I sincerely hope there is another.

I sincerely hope Nigel Clough tows the same line with Doyle as he did with Brandy, punishing him fairly for an act of petulance that was detrimental to the game. What is also worrying is that NC said after the game that Doyle told him that "there was contact but not enough for a red card". Bollocks, so he is obviously in the habit of lying to his Manager as well. The joke is that the lad who challenged him for the header did absolutely nothing wrong and accidentally cut Doyles lip. Doyle responds by scraping his studs down his legs from behind so you can also add 'cowardly' to the list of attributes he exhibits.

I trust that NC will handle him properly.
 
Just seen it on tv after missing the incident this afternoon. Shocking, although typical of the off the ball digs Doyle gets away with, I don't want to see cynical actions like that from one of our players, especially the captain.
 
A few things, which have in part been covered by others.

1) It was a nasty, niggly little foul, not 'taking one for the team', not a hard tackle gone awry, a dirty off the ball incident, which apparently he sparked himself, Davide was more sinned against than sinning in the earlier tussle. Comparisons like 'Patterson was a hard tackler' are not relevant.

2) Those people who are complaining that some are focusing on the actions of one rather than the team performance are missing the point. Doyle himself is the one who has done the team a disservice, he is the one who has diminished the game today, not us. He landed his team in the shit, we could well be talking about another famous United win today but for him. Credit has been dished out in other threads to the players and rightly so but I hardly think that means Doyle should escape criticism.

3) A wider point, some posters have used terms like 'witch hunt' and while I get that vendettas against players can get distasteful and downright nasty I don't think criticism of Doyle today has gone overboard. Captain frigging Fantastic has once again failed in what I expect is his chief capacity as captain, setting an example and helping drag the team to victory. To simply excuse what he has done today is not good enough. We as fans have the right, nay the duty to expect more, to demand more than the team has given us these past few years. In just six or so years we have seen United go from a position of relative strength mid way through a Premier League season to being in serious danger of relegation to the fourth tier, with nary a whimper (and I'm as guilty as anyone, I still pay my money). I never boo at Fulltime (I know everyone says that!) but to see some of the shite we've served up in recent years being clapped off the pitch has made my blood boil and in a similar vein to dismiss Doyle's latest aberration as just 'boys will be boys' and to respond to questions over his leadership with a simple 'well who else have we got?' is not good enough.

God damnit we need to be better than this and we need to demand better.

Also, his suicide pass that led to what should have been a Fulham penalty. What was that all about?
 
No one is defending Doyle, no one is apologising for him, no one is trying to make excuses for his lack of ability. We're simply saying that the amount of overreaction is embarrassing. He was a tit, he let the team down, he probably felt like a twat after despite his comments, but it was one event. No one died, no one got hurt, and if we as fans really are so sensitive then we've gone soft. Morgan's assault on Ian Hulme was far worse, but it's oreit cos he's a reight lad, and he got away with it.

Shit happens, get over it.
 
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themaninblack said:
I'm with Carling, Bulletnut & LSF on this. Doyle is our player, our captain and five pages reactionary frothing at the mouth on our forum is utter nonsense. He fucked up and he got sent off. It's football, that's what happens.

Glad to hear the new signings looked good, sounds like we are set for some onward and upward at last!
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Without frothing at the mouth, should we not be looking to improve on our captain? Is he so good that we should not be concerned about his sending off? As you may be aware,from my arm chair, in the antipodes,I do get things wrong, but IMO A captain should be one leads by example. He does not have to be the best player ever to play for us ; at the very least he should though conduct himself in such a way that he is still there at the end. Having given his all in encouraging the young lads around him. If he wants a scrap, there is ample opportunity after the game..
 
Bulletnut said:
No one is defending Doyle, no one is apologising for him, no one is trying to make excuses for his lack of ability. We're simply saying that the amount of overreaction is embarrassing. He was a tit, he let the team down, he probably felt like a twat after despite his comments, but it was one event. No one died, no one got hurt, and if we as fans really are so sensitive then we've gone soft. Morgan's assault on Ian Hulme was far worse, but it's oreit cos he's a reight lad, and he got away with it.

Shit happens, get over it.
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I'm tempted to agree with you other than the Morgan incident. It wasn't so obvious and so much off the ball, Doyle did it straight in front of the ref. Morgan was generally a honest big hearted player who was often more sinned against than sinner eg the crack from Mac(something or other) which Morgan accepted as all part of a physical game.
 
Jesus theres much a do about nothing on here. Sorry but almost anyone who has ever played from pub league up has done something like that. You can all give it the "expecting better" bollocks but if you have played you know you will have done it yourself. he shouldn't have done it but then again Morgan shouldn't have stuck his elbow in Humes face, Santos shouldn't have taken out the Forest Gimp years back and on and on. Difference is, Doyle is on the boo boys list so the hysterics can begin. I can only imagine the utter wankfest that some on here would have had if Porter had done it.

He plays for us and he is our captain. Several managers have all made him so. Is he our best captain ever? No, but while he pulls the shirt on and the Manager gives him the responsibility any chance we can not have him as (another) scapegoat?

As for his challenge, FFS it really wasn't anything more than a bit of a leg out. Done worse and received worse on a parks pitch. ref would get you both together and tell you to sort yourselves out and get on with it.
 

Stamping , kicking , nipping , pulling goes off in every game at every level, off the ball ,Doyle got caught ,he was stupid where when and how he did it ,in another game at our level it would have probably been out of the refs sight and the opponent would have given him one back when his chance came. MacMahon used to do it every game ,but Doyle had just been whacked on the nose the red mist had come down and he was stupid. He was having a decent game up to that point ,but he let his teammates ,the fans the manager and himself down. He will know that , he will be rightly fined and suspended and may have to fight for his place back ,but the outrage by some on here is totally out of proportion. Another point is the disappointing ease at which premier league players hit the deck ,one thing I hated about our year spent up there.
 
Doyle and people defending him are in a no win position here from now on. If we win the next 3 games and look better for it, it will show that he should have been dropped along time ago. If we get worse, then because of his fucking stupidity losing those games will put us in the shit.

From what I have seen of Clough, he's already given him a pass. I would love to know what Doyle has on the club.
 
Bladesway said:
He plays for us and he is our captain. Several managers have all made him so. Is he our best captain ever? No, but while he pulls the shirt on and the Manager gives him the responsibility any chance we can not have him as (another) scapegoat?
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Well, I couldn't possibly see the "S" word coming up for him today but here it is.

Once again for the 100th time of asking, a scapegoat is someone who takes the blame when it is NOT there fault.
Which part of yesterdays debacle was NOT his fault? He got himself sent off and, on another day, would have been directly responsible for George joining him. No-one else to blame I'm afraid.

Aside from that I kind of agree. I've done worse on a football pitch and had worse in return. Difference being, we weren't playing in the 4th round of the FA cup and springing a surprise on a team two divisions above AND I had the sense to not do it 10 yards from the referee.
It's sort of sad that the game has come to this, in that 10, 15 or 20 years ago (and maybe even today in our league) the little kick would have provoked an angry exchange of words and maybe some later retribution, rather than an oscar winning exhibition of rolling around.
It's the gross stupidity that rankles with me, and the fact I can't make the replay.
 
Grecian2000 said:
Well, I couldn't possibly see the "S" word coming up for him today but here it is.
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Indeed although it isn't about the game itself which his stupidity probably cost us the match, more that as soon as I saw he was sent off you could have predicted the tirade and who it would have come from.

There are some players who get a free lunch from our fans and others who get pelters if they decide to so much as breathe near the pitch. Doyle was stupid, no question but you would think he came on with a machete and hacked the guy to bits listening to some of the shit spouted on here.

Also, be it the 4th round of the cup or a game against the Dog and Duck, if you go up against someone in a competitive environment you sometimes do things you wouldn't do on the street.
 
Aside from all said so far and thinking a liitle deeper. I was like another poster said earlier and thought before the game Doyle had had a better aproach to games and his role. When you think of yesterday, there were a few things, A stupid pass that nearly resulted in a goal/pen/keeper sent off. Then the incident that he dwelled on that was his own fault, leading to his sending off. Like sitwell says little niggles go off at every level. the trick is to either take it, move away or show a degree of discression giving it. He did none of those and more to the point did it in plain sight of a prem ref probably less than 10 yrd away.
SHOWS A DEGREE OF SUPIDITY AND LACK OF INTELLIGENCE AT ANY LEVEL OF FOOTBALL.
Those in the club who read this thread please print and slip a copy into his pocket.
MICHAEL DOYLE.
YOU LET LEAGUE 1 DOWN.
YOU LET THE CLUB DOWN
YOU LET YOUR MANAGER DOWN
YOU LET YOUR TEAM MATES DOWN
AND MOST OF ALL (ALTHOUGH YOU MAY NOT SEE US LIKE THIS) YOU LET US THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE ASSOCIATED WITH THE CLUB DOWN - US THE SUPPORTERS AND FANS.
 
Doyle himself gets a free pass from far too many on here, For all that Bulletnut claims 'No one is defending Doyle, no one is apologising for him' we have plenty of posters suggesting that at Pub level or whatever this goes on all the time. Well that's as may be but Doyle is supposed to be a fucking professional and to do what he did, right in front of the Ref, is anything but.

And the old 'several managers have seen fit blah blah blah' chestnut. All the managers so far who have made Doyle captain have left the club in a worse position than they found it and all will go down as failures for their time at the Lane (albeit perhaps a tad harshly in Wilson's case). Clough may well buck the trend and I certainly hope he does. But for people to use the 'several managers' argument in support of Doyle when for all other purposes the views of Adams and Weir are dismissed out of hand strikes me as very disingenuous.
 
Having watched the incident a few times over, he also had a sneaky punch just after jumping headlock, I suspect the ref may have also seen that.
Whichever way you look at it, he acted in a very selfish way, when we were on top of a team worth millions more than ours
 
Guesty said:
Doyle himself gets a free pass from far too many on here, For all that Bulletnut claims 'No one is defending Doyle, no one is apologising for him' we have plenty of posters suggesting that at Pub level or whatever this goes on all the time. Well that's as may be but Doyle is supposed to be a fucking professional and to do what he did, right in front of the Ref, is anything but.

And the old 'several managers have seen fit blah blah blah' chestnut. All the managers so far who have made Doyle captain have left the club in a worse position than they found it and all will go down as failures for their time at the Lane (albeit perhaps a tad harshly in Wilson's case). Clough may well buck the trend and I certainly hope he does. But for people to use the 'several managers' argument in support of Doyle when for all other purposes the views of Adams and Weir are dismissed out of hand strikes me as very disingenuous.
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OK I'll simplify it. The current manager sees him as captain and plays him as such. The rest doesn't matter. He puts on a red and white shirt and should be judged match by match. What he did Sunday wasn't a good thing but neither was it an awful foul worthy of the shit posted by people on here.

Also, this "he is supposed to be a professional" thing. People get sent off every week for far worse. Whether you pay a man £300k per week or make him pay £3 subs for your pub team, we are human beings and sometimes we make decisions in sport or the heat of the moment that are wrong. You clearly have never transgressed on the field of play. I for one have done all sorts of stupid things in my 20+ years playing that I would have never considered doing in life elsewhere. On one occasion after a full weight brawl with a centre half we both got sent off and laughed at how stupid we had just been. 2 minutes previous we had to be separated from braying 7 shades out of each other. It just happened.

Morgan did something silly and Blades backed him because he is a top bloke. In fact what he did to Hume was off the scale compared to what Doyle just did. I don't condone it, but I see it for what it is.
 
When I play football I don't look to get into fights, no, and I'd hope our Captain has the same attitude but clearly he doesn't. My transgressions on the pitch haven't really good beyond the occasional clumsy trip and a bit of boglining as a kid but to be fair I don't play at any sort of level.

I didn't back or condone what Morgan did so that line of argument doesn't apply to me, although I appreciate it will for others.

My main point though is I find it astounding that anyone find our Captain getting sent off for stamping (and not for the first time in his United career). You clearly think differently and that's fine, it's all about opinions as they say.
 
Bladesway said:
Jesus theres much a do about nothing on here. Sorry but almost anyone who has ever played from pub league up has done something like that. You can all give it the "expecting better" bollocks but if you have played you know you will have done it yourself. he shouldn't have done it but then again Morgan shouldn't have stuck his elbow in Humes face, Santos shouldn't have taken out the Forest Gimp years back and on and on. Difference is, Doyle is on the boo boys list so the hysterics can begin. I can only imagine the utter wankfest that some on here would have had if Porter had done it.

He plays for us and he is our captain. Several managers have all made him so. Is he our best captain ever? No, but while he pulls the shirt on and the Manager gives him the responsibility any chance we can not have him as (another) scapegoat?

As for his challenge, FFS it really wasn't anything more than a bit of a leg out. Done worse and received worse on a parks pitch. ref would get you both together and tell you to sort yourselves out and get on with it.
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That's a great post Bladesway! If you have played (at any level) and some fucker does you a nasty one or whatever, some of us, (not all) react badly, whether we are paid pros or Friendlies League Div 8. Some of the holier than thou posts are amusing.
 
LSF said:
That's a great post Bladesway! If you have played (at any level) and some fucker does you a nasty one or whatever, some of us, (not all) react badly, whether we are paid pros or Friendlies League Div 8. Some of the holier than thou posts are amusing.
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Doyle put Davide in a headlock and contrived to come out worse, so he stamped on the lad. My mistake he didn't deserve a red card, clearly he should have had a medal.

It's hardly 'holier than thou' to expect your captain not to be so stupid, never mind nasty.
 
LSF said:
That's a great post Bladesway! If you have played (at any level) and some fucker does you a nasty one or whatever, some of us, (not all) react badly, whether we are paid pros or Friendlies League Div 8. Some of the holier than thou posts are amusing.
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You have just gone down one notch in my book LSF and you're now at -1. Posts defending Doyle are just retarded. I can't take anything you say seriously anymore.

Anyone excusing Doyle today by using other players like Morgan, Booker etc; just need to get in the here and now. Your Captain who you love and think is the heartbeat of this team has got himself suspended for the next 3 games. All this sticking up for him and he has just made you all look like idiots. He has seriously let you down.
 
Guesty said:
Doyle put Davide in a headlock and contrived to come out worse, so he stamped on the lad. My mistake he didn't deserve a red card, clearly he should have had a medal.

It's hardly 'holier than thou' to expect your captain not to be so stupid, never mind nasty.
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Who said he didn't deserve to be sent off Guesty? Of course he did and he let his team mates down on the day, however beyond that, it will be dealt with internally by Clough and that (whatever Clough's action on it) will be that. Your sarcasm is just a tad misplaced in your reply to me ;)
 
Don't know if anyone has mentioned it but did anyone else see Doyle 'do' Karagounis off the ball first half? Idiocy. Seems I was the only one to see it at the time. He should have walked for that.
 

sheffielder said:
You have just gone down one notch in my book LSF and you're now at -1. Posts defending Doyle are just retarded. I can't take anything you say seriously anymore.

Anyone excusing Doyle today by using other players like Morgan, Booker etc; just need to get in the here and now. Your Captain who you love and think is the heartbeat of this team has got himself suspended for the next 3 games. All this sticking up for him and he has just made you all look like idiots. He has seriously let you down.
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Hey Sheff! That's twice in a week I've been labelled an idiot on here, maybe I am eh?:eek:
Sleep may be difficult to come by tonight knowing I've transgressed in Sheffielder's opinion of me ;) Listen, if Michael is indeed my lovechild, I am going to defend him through thick and thin.
Will Clough be an idiot when he sticks him back as skipper in 3 games time? In your book, he will no doubt.
 
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