Doyle is one of the major Problems

[Houso]

Have you really said we don't need to break up the opposition ?

Yes, that's exactly what i said. Fuck me.

 

[sitwell]

Are we the Harlem globe trotters ?
Show me team that doesn't break the opposition play up and they are probably 7 years old.

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

He's been average most of the year, and less culpable than many, but Doyle is our major problem.

Because he's no longer very mobile, we can't play 4-4-2 unless there's someone like Coady next to him.

So playing Baxter or Coutts there is a no no.

Therefore, we have to play 3 in the centre to make up for him.

He's also a dreadful captain and a dreadful leader.

Our beloved manager appears to be quite happy to sign midfielder after midfielder, but not a replacement for him.

Doyle is well down the list as one of the problems for this season. Take Doyle out of that team and there is no one showing any kind of leadership. He has his limitations but at third division level is more than adequate. If you want to find the main problem for this season take a look at the two positions behind Doyle. Two proper centre halves and we'd have walked this league.

 

[LSF]

Did your 'someone said something borderline nasty about Doyle' alarm go off? Whether he was at fault today or not, our setup does not suit him and he's about as good a leader as that c*nt in number 10 is. The amount of people who have commented about our lack of leadership is indictment enough. He's not good enough, and he's never been good enough. Our spine is weak and he's the slipped disc.

Well you asked, so I'll answer as at least you'll debate unlike some who haven't the ability.
Yep my alarm is working well
First we were awful again yesterday but quite why some decide to unearth old prejudices against MD when these displays prevail is puzzling.
He is not as effective in a 442 and what he does in a 451 is suddenly not enough once the system changes.
However, yesterday and times before, his personal performance and attitude can't be faulted, he cares, he tries to get into positions in the box and gets on the end of things, trouble is it rarely goes in. In short, his limitations are not difficult to see, but I like his never say die attitude and his penchant for mixing it as you have to at times in the midfield maelstrom. Compare that with the strolling casual ' fuck this running and trying' lark of Coutts, who has ability but no Doyleism to back it up.
No, Doyle is far from perfect and we need better to improve in that area if we are to progress, but if the op thinks he's the reason we are where we are and the prime mover for our failings, then yes, my alarm fucking works.
One last question Houso, can you explain to me what constitutes a good leader/captain on a football field and then go on to why Doyle fails to live up to your theory. I'm interested to know genuinely.

 

[scholarblade]

doyle n baxter playing together in a 3 is a

 

[ADMIN]

ADMIN NOTE: keep it civil

 

[scholarblade]

Doyle and baxter playing in acentre midfield 3 is a disaster as a 2 it a nightmare. Who is supposed to be the defensive player? they were both deep, immobile and totally ineffective.
The game involves Control, passing, heading, movement, pace, tackling, goals, Professional Footballers should have at least a couple of those attributes, the more you have the higher up the leagues you should play. Doyle is no better than average at 1, tackling! I get pissed off when people say he breaks play up, what does that actually mean? He plays in the middle of the pitch, hes bound to get in the way sometime!
Baxter has more attributes but abdabsolutely no heart for it so doesn't show them.
they are the reason we are slow and boring, midfield is critical in any game, ours is currently shit!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

The problem is that we are too predictable and therefore easy to defend against and not solid enough to keep teams out.

Across the back four, Harris to Murphy who is now double marked, back to defence / midfield, repeat a few times until hoof up to Done. Baxter had loads of the ball yesterday starting deep but it was all sideways. Coutts did better from that position 2nd half but there's no inventiveness and if teams stop Murphy they pretty much snuff us out.

Things may improve when Davies settles in but at the moment we're just too easy to play against.

 

[Houso]

Are we the Harlem globe trotters ?
Show me team that doesn't break the opposition play up and they are probably 7 years old.

Did I say we don't need to break up play? These days you read what you want to read. We don't need a player who is exclusively in there to break up play. It should be one facet of a every player's role, not the exclusive responsibility of one individual. I'm afraid that Doyle brings little else to the table these days.

 

[Houso]

One last question Houso, can you explain to me what constitutes a good leader/captain on a football field and then go on to why Doyle fails to live up to your theory. I'm interested to know genuinely.

Someone who leads by example, who motivates those who have lost motivation and gives those who have lost their form a kick up the backside. Doyle doesn't appear to do any of these. He's not vocal enough and he certainly doesn't act as a shining role model to the rest of the team. I've never seen such dereliction of duty as that vs. Fulham last season.

 

[sitwell]

Did I say we don't need to break up play? These days you read what you want to read. We don't need a player who is exclusively in there to break up play. It should be one facet of a every player's role, not the exclusive responsibility of one individual. I'm afraid that Doyle brings little else to the table these days.

Im afraid you just see what you want to see.

 

[Houso]

Im afraid you just see what you want to see.

Oh dear.

 

[Bladesway]

Whilever Jose Baxter gets a shirt, Doyle is far from our biggest problem, in either physical or a footballing sense.

 

[Houso]

To be fair to the OP, the title of the thread is "one of our major problems"

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Personally I don't rate Doyle as a player and am unsure about how well his captaincy style works with some of the less confident players. I do think 4-5-1 suits him much better than 4-4-2 due to his limitations and, if we are playing against a team that parks the bus and plays on the break, I'm less than convinced that he adds much. His age is also very much against him and he does need replacing.

Doyle is a leader I agree, but you don't have to be captain to be a leader. You do need a leader as captain. I find it sadly ironic that we are having a debate about a demonstrable lack of leadership in the side after some of the comments and endorsements given by NC about signings being leaders and about how you cannot have too many leaders on a pitch. The paucity of leaders in the team now is alarming. Butler is long gone (possibly because of a rumoured spat with Doyle about who should be captain - I only have that from my neighbour who is friends with Butler but I have seen it mentioned by other sources) but would have been a leader for the defence. So who else is there. Brayford and Basham are possibles at a push I suppose but there are no other outstanding candidates that I can see.

Having said all that, to identify Doyle as the root of the problem is, to my mind, an exercise in scapegoating and avoiding the elephants in the room. He has shown more heart and commitment than the vast majority of the other players and he does try to inspire through example. He has also looked one of our better players in a significant number of matches. That is not me saying that this is a result of him having improved beyond measure (although I think he has improved focus since his sending off v Fulham). It is more a measure of the other player's contributions, confidence and commitment, together with structural weaknesses in the side.

Basically the spine of the side needs major surgery - GK/CH/CM/CF. I wholeheartedly believe that if the defence was more solid we wouldn't need to be playing a DM in a midfield 5 in a lot of our home games and a stronger defence would give a much more solid foundation to attack with confidence. At the moment we look like a team with fragile confidence and little self belief all over the park. Without Done and Murphy we would royally f**ked. Doyle is a problem, but not the worst one or the most pressing.

UTB

 

[robbiez666]

To re-iterate, Doyle have probably been our most consistent performer after Done, Murphy and Basham this season.

I'm not blaming him as a player. I'm saying that because of the players he is, we can't play 4-4-2 with any of the myriad of midfielders NC has brought in. He should have bought a replacement with more legs. The most likely partner is Basham, but he still doesn't have the engine to carry a 2 man midfield. Clough should have signed a Coady type player. If we play 4-4-2 with the players we have, the midfield is lost. To be honest, we lose the midfield battle with 3 in there far too often.

The reason we aren't at the top of the league is the inexplicable failure of our manager to build a strong spine for the team.

 

[JohnDenver]

Playing 442 yesterday made us reliant on the flanks for attacking threat. Coutts doesn't look suited to the role, Brayford looked exhausted, Harris had a shocker and Murphy couldn't do it all on his own. Fleetwood were a hugely limited side, but by doubling up on our wingers they killed us stone dead.

But all this tactical malarkey aside, we could and should have won this game (despite everything), if we could actually keep clean sheets against poor teams.

I mean honestly, have we ever conceded two goals to such a weak attack? It's that simple.

 

[Guesty]

Personally I don't rate Doyle as a player and am unsure about how well his captaincy style works with some of the less confident players. I do think 4-5-1 suits him much better than 4-4-2 due to his limitations and, if we are playing against a team that parks the bus and plays on the break, I'm less than convinced that he adds much. His age is also very much against him and he does need replacing.

Doyle is a leader I agree, but you don't have to be captain to be a leader. You do need a leader as captain. I find it sadly ironic that we are having a debate about a demonstrable lack of leadership in the side after some of the comments and endorsements given by NC about signings being leaders and about how you cannot have too many leaders on a pitch. The paucity of leaders in the team now is alarming. Butler is long gone (possibly because of a rumoured spat with Doyle about who should be captain - I only have that from my neighbour who is friends with Butler but I have seen it mentioned by other sources) but would have been a leader for the defence. So who else is there. Brayford and Basham are possibles at a push I suppose but there are no other outstanding candidates that I can see.

Having said all that, to identify Doyle as the root of the problem is, to my mind, an exercise in scapegoating and avoiding the elephants in the room. He has shown more heart and commitment than the vast majority of the other players and he does try to inspire through example. He has also looked one of our better players in a significant number of matches. That is not me saying that this is a result of him having improved beyond measure (although I think he has improved focus since his sending off v Fulham). It is more a measure of the other player's contributions, confidence and commitment, together with structural weaknesses in the side.

Basically the spine of the side needs major surgery - GK/CH/CM/CF. I wholeheartedly believe that if the defence was more solid we wouldn't need to be playing a DM in a midfield 5 in a lot of our home games and a stronger defence would give a much more solid foundation to attack with confidence. At the moment we look like a team with fragile confidence and little self belief all over the park. Without Done and Murphy we would royally f**ked. Doyle is a problem, but not the worst one or the most pressing.

UTB

Baxter and Higdon, right?

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Baxter and Higdon, right?

Not sure of your point but no. I'm saying that he needs replacing but right now we have far bigger problems to worry about than Doyle. Lets face it he isn't the future.

 

[LSF]

Someone who leads by example, who motivates those who have lost motivation and gives those who have lost their form a kick up the backside. Doyle doesn't appear to do any of these. He's not vocal enough and he certainly doesn't act as a shining role model to the rest of the team. I've never seen such dereliction of duty as that vs. Fulham last season.

Cheers, I don't agree with your assertions re Doyle's captaincy. From where I sit I can't hear whether he shouts or not, his mouth moves but I'm not sure what comes out, it may be crap, it may be constructive, who knows?
His attitude appears to be one that is worth examination, he never gives up and drives on when others appear to flag.
My point is, I think players like Doyle are like that whether they are captain or not.
And as for a captains role, well, in my book, if they win the toss and smile on the pre match photo, they've fulfilled their role.
Every player is responsible for his own self motivation at this level, surely? If you need another bloke on the field to kick your arse then you shouldnt be there IMO.

 

[SW12 UTB]

For me we should be looking to do better than Doyle next season. He just never seems to be here or there in terms of either going forward, or stopping opposition midfielders running at the defense .Also the fact he is very one footed means he slows it all down every time we switch the play.For him, its always take a touch, look up,take another touch and pass it, instead of looking before he gets it,one touch then pass. Id play him against more physical sides so we have a bit of aggression in the midfield but in other games such as yesterday it was just a complete waste having him there in the midfield as he just ran about and never touched the ball

 

[Guesty]

Not sure of your point but no. I'm saying that he needs replacing but right now we have far bigger problems to worry about than Doyle. Lets face it he isn't the future.

I was just making the obvious fat joke.

 

[longinthe toothblade]

He's been average most of the year, and less culpable than many, but Doyle is our major problem.

Because he's no longer very mobile, we can't play 4-4-2 unless there's someone like Coady next to him.

So playing Baxter or Coutts there is a no no.

Therefore, we have to play 3 in the centre to make up for him.

He's also a dreadful captain and a dreadful leader.

Our beloved manager appears to be quite happy to sign midfielder after midfielder, but not a replacement for him.

Disagree about Doyle on most fronts.

For me he's been a great servant of the club, a great example to some of the younger players - as I understand it, on and off the pitch. Technically, he's a lot better player than many give him credit for and though he isn't the player he was [accepted], as a defensive midfielder who puts his heart into it, who are you going to put ahead of him?

He will be very difficult to replace - as we are finding out.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Listening to Clough pre season, his intension I believe is that he intended to play Wallace and Basham in centre midfield, so not sure there would originally been a major part for Doyle. Circumstances put paid to that and it led to Clough needing to find another solution. Doyle has since been very professional, and fair dos to him.

Wallace was played too quickly and we have probably stuffed his entire season, but the fact that whenever he showed a modicum of fitness he tended to be straight in the team. He looked quality when he played and with the added issue with Maguire going before the season started, Clough had the entire heart of his "intended" team torn to shreds.

Decisions since taken by NC have been weird at times, but "best laid plans" as they say...........perhaps we have a curse?

UTB

 

[mattbianco1]

Doyle? I thought we'd agreed that Coutts was the new scapegoat?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I've always thought that having both Doyle and Collins were a major factor in us finishing up in the 3rd division in the first place.

Now we are clamouring for Collins to come back and are defending Doyle.

I'm looking forward to next season without either of 'em.

 

[wizadry]

I've always thought that having both Doyle and Collins were a major factor in us finishing up in the 3rd division in the first place.

Now we are clamouring for Collins to come back and are defending Doyle.

I'm looking forward to next season without either of 'em.

I agree mate, but Collins is our best CB at the club at the moment, which says more about the balance of the squad more than anything.

As for Doyle, you need players like him with younger legs in the so called tougher games and to be quite honest there shouldn't be too many of those in this division, that's not being billy big bollocks, that's an honest assesment with the budget and everthing else taken into consideration. In short Doyle should be used sparingly, if and when needed, lets face it, we don't have to break up much play at the lane do we or even away for that matter. Doyle is one of the numerous problems, not the biggest though as there has hardly been any threads on him this season, that alone should make people realise he isn't the biggest problem.

 

[Darthblade]

Coutts was dire on the wing but I thought he improved 100% when he moved inside. Too many players couldn't be arsed today. I lost count of the number of times Matt Done ran into the channel. Did he get the ball through? Did he fuck.

The only player making a move when Coutts had the ball was Done. Most times he went forward with the ball there was nobody to pass to .... they were all tossing it off !! We made ourselves easy to mark with lack of movement .......

Very poor show and too many aimless long balls, not helped by a keeper with a hole in him ......
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

It may surprise you to know that Doyle was one of our better players today. At least he gave a fuck

I wouldn't go as far as to say "one of our better players today" ..... more he wasn't the worst. He can't play in a midfield four as he doesn't have the legs any more.
He would, however, have been better than Turner in goal ......
UTB & FTP

 

[Sheff de party]

Just exactly how much does Swiss earn?

He's never counted, but I saw him a few weeks ago and he showed me this picture of him in his living room.