Do we ever stop moaning

[Cyprus Blade]

It seems to me that whether the glass is half full or half empty for you either way its still the same glass (tempted to say no danger of the cup running over at the moment then ) . We are where we are and, for me, it isn't good enough and (if some of it is down to the players, the scouts and the coaches) a lot of it is down to Nigel.

Nigel Clough is an ordinary bloke who had an extra-ordinary father. Nigel has his strengths and weaknesses. Neither putting him on a pedestal or trashing what he has managed to achieve will get us or him anywhere. If its correct that he used the phrase "if we are still here" in an interview to me that either means he is losing belief in what he has been trying to create here and is looking at new pastures or the Board have had words with him. Either way the phrase is revealing and makes me think that failure to make the play-offs and he will be gone one way or another.

He said in interview about the team lacking belief in the aftermath of the Gillingham game (never heard him say that before) - where that stems from is open to debate (as is what they have lost belief in - themselves, the system, the management?) but one thing for certain is that its Nigel's job to sort that, hence, I'm guessing, the " no-one is safe interview" in the Stir. Whether that approach will work remains to be seen and I dread to think what the reaction on here is going to be if we do not beat Colchester tonight. Lose and it will be another nail firmly hammered into Nigel's coffin in my opinion.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Glad to see you're back on an even keel now Fulwood, that makes me more optimistic again..

Isn't it 5 months since pre-season though? quite a while for " the league form to just mirror that poor form". Not that I'm moaning like.

I don't understand why you are suggesting I am unbalanced, which is another way of saying on and even keel.
I also don't understand why you seem to want to bring up the fact that people can't have different opinions through time, although mine has rarely changed since Clough joined, but perhaps the Sigmund Freud of the forum knows different.

UTB

 

[More Bladier than thou]

seems like clough gets his tactics wrong most of the time, hes had enough to assemble a decent squad. still no strike force, if it wasnt for the cup runs, hes massively underachieved. he seems to be happy and contempt with drawing against league 1 teams. we are not progressing at all this season,theres no improvement, but i think we need to give him till the rest of the season.i cant see us even making the playoffs with our form. its just the same every season,with the same old excuses, we had too many injuries, we need a stronger squad, the cup run. its wearing thin with blades,we have been more than patient with the club so we have every right to moan.

 

[Davie Blade]

. I trust in Nigel, my only concern is 1 promotion in 13 years?

Just One league postilion higher than 5th in 13 years, corrected it for you.

A record he is almost certainly going to add to this season.

last 7seasons, 18th,14th ,19th. 12th. 10th. 14th 7th.

Only twice in the top half.
Not impressive is it?
A wake up call for those giving him more time! WAKEY WAKEY
His amateurish scatter-gun ways are found out.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I don't understand why you are suggesting I am unbalanced, which is another way of saying on and even keel.
I also don't understand why you seem to want to bring up the fact that people can't have different opinions through time, although mine has rarely changed since Clough joined, but perhaps the Sigmund Freud of the forum knows different.

UTB

"Unbalanced", nothing of the sort intended. I meant you had got over a couple of bad performances, about which you vented your wrath and I was pleased you were back to defending Clough and having a go at the moaners, i.e. back on an even keel. Shame about the Sigmund Freud comment, bit of an unbalanced reaction ironically!

No Fulwood, I really meant it last week when I said I draw strength from you and other positive Clough fans in these disappointing times.

 

[Kenilworth]

The expected "strong strike-force of four" never arrived and as time went on it dawned on me that it wasn't going to. I have been in shock about that for some time and I believe that is the root cause of all the problems our manager has had this season. I am also in shock how an experienced manager can do everything right for so many months and then seem to lose his composure. Whatever happened in pre-season with Butler and Collins seems to have knocked us for six. Why we have been unable to recruit any quality strikers beggars belief.

I suggest one of the reasons is that we are renowned for only playing one single striker up front.

Players coming in on Loan don't want to sit on the bench - getting the last 5 mins when chasing a game

Clubs looking to loan their best youf out don't want their player sitting on the bench - getting only the last 5 mins when chasing a game.

Strikers looking to make a permanent move - don't want to sit on the bench - getting possibly the last 5 mins when chasing a game

Not every striker is comfortable playing the lone striker role - it's hard work and you get very few chances then are possibly knackered when a solitary chance might come your way (& look a reight twat when you fluff it) - or you get subbed for a spotty youf who may come on and score in the last five mins - they take the glory and your scoring stats look for shit.

Matty Done can play wide left was well as down the middle so maybe he feels he has a better chance of making the first XI.

 

[Darren]

When a club like SUFC with average crowds of 20,000 is looking like having a 5th season in the lower divisions, I would bloody well hope we are fucking moaning!

 

[Highbury_Blade]

When a club like SUFC with average crowds of 20,000 is looking like having a 5th season in the lower divisions, I would bloody well hope we are fucking moaning!

Exactly. When was the last time a club of our size spent 5 seasons below the 2nd tier?

 

[Darren]

Exactly. When was the last time a club of our size spent 5 seasons below the 2nd tier?

I did a post a while ago that suggested that biggish clubs never spend more than 5 years in the lower divisions: Wednesday did that from 75-80 and we did it from 79-84. Off the top of my head, Villa, Birmingham, WBA, Leeds, Norwich, Southampton, Wolves, Leicester, Derby, Forest, Stoke. Man City (all clubs of comparable size to United) have all had spells in the lower divisions, but I don't think any of them did as much as 5 years at one go.

Edit: Portsmouth spent from 1976-83 in the lower divisions, so you might argue they hold the "big club in lower divisions" record.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

My post it trying to stay positive and give Clough till the end of the month. He will have had enough time then gents. I just hate the knee jerk reactions always come after a defeat. End of January then take stock?

Knee jerk reaction ?.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

We give Spurs a hell of a game in cup, he makes 10 changes against a top two side, where despite riding our luck somewhat we still manage to beat 2-0. He then brings back the 'rested' first choice players against PNE in the cup, and we bow out with barely a whimper. We then go to Gillingham, a place where we have a very good record and quite frankly a stadium where most of us expected to come away at least with something, and are then sunk without a trace. Nigel saved us without doubt from the fourth division when he first came, bearing in mind nobody seemed to want the job, including an Aussie half of us hadn't heard of. Yes, Nigel needs time to deliver, but quite frankly he is making hard work of it, hence the reason fans criticise, moan whatever you want to call it, at the end of the day though, we are all Blades and want the same thing. Just as a matter of opinion, if we don't go up, the first thing that needs to be addressed close season is the scouting network, things just do not seem to be working.

 

[Woodwardfan]

When a club like SUFC with average crowds of 20,000 is looking like having a 5th season in the lower divisions, I would bloody well hope we are fucking moaning!

But will the crowds average 20000 next season?

 

[super_pig]

I see other clubs like Northampton hounding and calling for Chris Wilders head and 5 weeks later after 6/7 straight wins and manager of the month and now he is the saviour..

we aren't Northampton.. minor point
on the football league show leroy roseignor (?) made the point about MKDons doing well 'when you consider their budget against the likes of huge clubs like Sheffield United'
we're all pretty fed up with this shit by now. you should cut us some slack. it's a miracle the team has any fans left tbh

 

[OllyBlade]

God, not another bloody 'do we ever stop moaning?' thread. Grrr, I'm right sick of these, me. Make me all mardy and want to have a good grumble. Gah! Bah!

 

[Darthblade]

I just don't understand the harsh criticism that is aimed toward Clough. Most of you are unaware of what goes off behind closed door at Bramall Lane. The great thing about Football is that in brings so many people together by the love of there team yet divides some many by opinion. I see other clubs like Northampton hounding and calling for Chris Wilders head and 5 weeks later after 6/7 straight wins and manager of the month and now he is the saviour.. Same has to be said for Nigel, this time last year we were 23rd in an awful league, he made us top of the form guide by the end of the season and cup semi final in which we scored 3 goals.... this season he has taken us to a semi and the 5th round of the FA cup, yet we have very indifferent league consistency. I guess what I'm saying is football fans especially us Blades need to take things month on month rather than game by game.... we all wanted Brayford, we get him and now everyone says we should have spent money elsewhere!! kneejerk reactions need to stop, lets see were we are by the end of Feb if its not improved then I agree Cloughs position needs to be evaluated. Lets just enjoy the ride, I would much rather be a Blade than endure the same sleepy dull, non ambitious other side of the City

#obsessed

Whilst I appreciate your patience and tolerance and I certainly do not intend to speak for anybody else, I do refute the suggestion that MY comments over the last weeks have been "knee-jerk".

I have consistently bemoaned our lack of a decent striker all season, even from September, when I think it became obvious that we would struggle to score goals this season. I have also commented on our "lightweight" midfield which is ineffective in the League, despite being able to perform in the Cup. The Cup games against Premier league opposition are, quite clearly, completely different games !!

Some of the more "optimistic" posters counselled me to "wait a few weeks" and "its still too early to judge", however, I do think that now we can see that the elephant in the room that many wanted to ignore is actually a MAJOR issue at the Club. The fact that we have gone 3 years without a decent striker is, without any doubt, a disgrace of BIBLICAL proportions and the wait continues ..... the next likely opportunity to address this will be in the summer.

I don't just blame NC. I still believe that he was not initially given the promised backing by the Board, although they've now opened the cheque book, regrettably its shutting the gate after the horse has fu**ed off, if you will pardon my vulgarity.

Whilst I'm completely in favour of playing decent passing football, regrettably we have few players who are capable of "toughing it out" in this Division and many of the players are physically dominated out of games (in the League ) and prove to be ineffective, hence our current league position. We have been found out, as other teams have realised that when you physically "rough up" players in this Division, referees do NOT give fouls. This is why we have not been able to dominate any games in league 1 this season other than Gillingham at home.

IMHO, we lack pace all over the pitch, we lack a decent strong and hungry striker, we are weak in midfield, we are like a colander in defence and none of these issues have yet been addressed. In short, we will struggle to even make the play-offs this season (with current squad ) and if we did scrape in to the top 6, we have little chance of competing ( over 2 games ) with MKD / Swindon / Preston, which effectively means our season is over. It remains for us to accumulate sufficient points so that we are not looking over our shoulder in April, swallow the embarrassment of another season in this "agricultural" division and hope for some major pruning of dead wood in the summer together with addressing our needs which I think are 2 x CH, 1 x CM ( unless Wallace divorces the physio ) and 2 x strikers with height, pace, strength and a fierce burning desire to score 20 goals a season.

But no knee jerks here my friend, just sadness and gut-wrenching disappointment. I've now been supporting the RAWW for 50 years, and some things don't change down at BDTBL.
UTB & FTP

 

[Deano's Shorts]

People seem to think that because we're a big club and because we've spent freely and because we've shown we can play decent football and hold our own against higher league opposition we should be ripping the paltry third tier to shreds week in, week out.

From my point of view there are absolutely no guarantees in this game and building teams that will rise and continue to rise isn't just a case of 'getting a proven striker' to stick up top. Well, it can be but this seems to me like an attempt at an entire cultural shift which presumably has been set as a 5- or even 10-year plan by the board.

The ultra-modern theme of instant gratification is all-purveying, it would appear.

 

[forever_blade]

I'm as positive as they come & always one for keeping the faith which we should & will always continue to do so, however walking out of Gillingham on Saturday was when for the first time it hit home that missing out on the top six IS A REAL POSSIBILITY!

The last time we won away in the league was Donny away, November 15th

I love Clough & really want him to achieve promotion with us as we all do but for the first time there's a little feeling of 'doubt' that we could miss out altogether.

He did a fantastic job last season to turn us from staring relegation in the face to taking us on the cup run & finish just outside the play-offs was an unbelievable achievement, all that was required in the summer was to add to what already had the makings of a league title winning side.

Coady should have been top of the shopping list but we let him go & replaced him with J.Wallace who we already knew struggled with injuries & this has been proven the case so far. We had a huge squad overhaul, brought in plenty of midfielders but not one who offers us what Coady did (quantity over quality) & now we have enough players to name two squads meaning Clough can't decide his best eleven which I find pretty alarming in all honesty.

I'm not one to slag them off & don't agree with the whole slasher/clapper camps that some Blade's seem to associate different types of Blades with. All I want is to see us go out to win games instead of playing with fear & hoping to nick a win when we should be taking the initiative & going at teams from the off. Something has got to change & change quick.

Look at the players at our disposal we have more than enough in our squad to not have to 'hope' to win games. The counter attacking system we played last year worked so well due to the midfield runners we had in Scougall, Coady, Flynn & Murphy breaking at pace, there's only one player there who's not still in the set-up & he's the only one that required replacing.

Personally I believe we already have that man in the squad in Florent Cuvelier.

20 cup finals starts tonight, we can't keep saying & having the mentality that the 'top two is out of sight but we're guaranteed a play-off spot' because I'm not sure where these points are set to come from to cement that spot if we don't start producing.

Keep the faith & let's get behind them as always but this really is the business end of the season & it really is now or never

UTB

 

[Mustela Putorius Furo]

..............
The ultra-modern theme of instant gratification is all-purveying, it would appear.

Mmmm I've been going to the Lane since the late 60s up to which point our historic average league position was about 16th/17th in the top division and never having finished lower than 11th in the second tier. Since then I've been fortunate enough to witness a single challenge for European competition, and then a a cycle of decline-recover-decline that has seen our average position slip considerably. Since 1975-6 our club's performance has resulted in just 5 top division seasons - appalling for a club that had spent most of its history there, and still records one of the longest uninterrupted top flight runs.

Whatever the reasons for that, however realistic our position is as a measure of our clubs long term "management", I really don't think instant gratification can be used as a criticism of anyone that is unhappy about United's current position, regardless of how unrealistic their criticism might appear. It's the last thing that applies to us.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I was one who was highly delighted when Clough joined us, took to him straight away, once said he could have been a lifetime Blade he fitted the personality of our club so well, understood and applauded almost every decision he made last season, including player release, team selections, tactics, style of football, loved his interviews and his calm approach.

I even watched his early and decisive activity in the transfer market and believed each addition was done for a reason, indeed the new player profiles looked appropriate for our situation.

The expected "strong strike-force of four" never arrived and as time went on it dawned on me that it wasn't going to. I have been in shock about that for some time and I believe that is the root cause of all the problems our manager has had this season. I am also in shock how an experienced manager can do everything right for so many months and then seem to lose his composure. Whatever happened in pre-season with Butler and Collins seems to have knocked us for six. Why we have been unable to recruit any quality strikers beggars belief.

I think we are all in shock and yes our reaction is to moan. Are we always moaning? No, even when results don't go our way we are happy if we can see progress being made and proper leadership forward. We are in shock that we are off the rails and failing at this point in time. In all my years watching United I can't recall such an unexpected reversal of confidence and belief, usually you can see it coming a mile off. It is still hard to believe how it's happened and the cup successes have only added to the mystery of it all.

I do admire those who have kept positive on here but surely even they know that pre-season favourites shouldn't sign so many players without including quality strikers amongst them; it's negligent frankly. Not as simple as that? Yes it is!

Woody , not happy at all but still positive . What choice have we got . Take up shopping at Sainsburys alternate saturdays. Still a long way to go and have confidence in the Clough regime to hit the play offs and be promoted.

The striker issue is still a major factor and a problem , but to find one that fits our style will be like finding rocking horse shit. Lets see how we perform tonight . Surely it cannot get any worse - can it ?.

UTB

 

[Bob Hutchins]

Last 3 games

Spurs 2-2
Swindon 2-0
Gillingham 0-2

Is it really that bad being a Blade......

Agreed a loss tonight and questions need to be asked, personally you can see NC is terribly stubborn trust me... Rather than go attacking and let the fans have something to enjoy even if the outcome is not 3 points he will stay say in a 451 this evening and profess its 433 that I cant stand..

Lets back the boys, sing loud and proud and then sit on the fence after..... I think we are one big win of turning things around..... although the best bet on the coupon is 0-0 HT as per the other 15 games this season which has seen us drawing 0-0 at HT.

UTB

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Mmmm I've been going to the Lane since the late 60s up to which point our historic average league position was about 16th/17th in the top division and never having finished lower than 11th in the second tier. Since then I've been fortunate enough to witness a single challenge for European competition, and then a a cycle of decline-recover-decline that has seen our average position slip considerably. Since 1975-6 our club's performance has resulted in just 5 top division seasons - appalling for a club that had spent most of its history there, and still records one of the longest uninterrupted top flight runs.

Whatever the reasons for that, however realistic our position is as a measure of our clubs long term "management", I really don't think instant gratification can be used as a criticism of anyone that is unhappy about United's current position, regardless of how unrealistic their criticism might appear. It's the last thing that applies to us.

That's right.

The thread about old forums had a thread from 2004 where people were saying we should rip Stoke a new one just the same as we all felt about Gillingham.

Both indicate where us old un's think we belong leagues status wise and it's not being big headed and our feelings on the Gilliingham game show how far we have actually fallen.

 

[Coily]

Last 3 games

Spurs 2-2
Swindon 2-0
Gillingham 0-2

Is it really that bad being a Blade......

Agreed a loss tonight and questions need to be asked, personally you can see NC is terribly stubborn trust me... Rather than go attacking and let the fans have something to enjoy even if the outcome is not 3 points he will stay say in a 451 this evening and profess its 433 that I cant stand..

Lets back the boys, sing loud and proud and then sit on the fence after..... I think we are one big win of turning things around..... although the best bet on the coupon is 0-0 HT as per the other 15 games this season which has seen us drawing 0-0 at HT.

UTB

No - the last three games were:

Swindon 2-0
Preston 1-3
Gillingham 0-2

Pretty shit, wouldn't you say?

Questions are right to be asked now, our league record since November is poor and that is why we have zero chance of automatic promotion. That we are struggling to get into the play-offs at present is far from good enough. I still believe we'll make the play-offs, but they have to start performing now.

Clough said yesterday that he didn't think tonight was a must win, but I bloody do. After Saturday's garbage showing, the team have to put on a show and get us believing again.

 

[Mustela Putorius Furo]

That's right.

The thread about old forums had a thread from 2004 where people were saying we should rip Stoke a new one just the same as we all felt about Gillingham.

Both indicate where us old un's think we belong leagues status wise and it's not being big headed and our feelings on the Gilliingham game show how far we have actually fallen.

It's a source of permanent frustration that the hopes (and even norms) I knew as a kid, and learned from my old man are just plain fantasy these days and I'm unlikely to see those things i reasonably expected till I'm too old to bother or understand! It's not like the first 70 years of the club's history were a fluke! What I thought was a blip in the story of SUFC has become the new norm - "failure".... my gratification has been well and truly delayed... and that will only occur when we're mid-table, top-flight again. Sadly, I don't believe that will ever happen again.


At the risk of stirring up a hornet's nest here, I'm tempted to use the quote McCabe/Warnock and their supporters threw at dissidents 10-12 years ago:


"But just look how far we've come!"... Indeed. Just look.

 

[blade too long]

No. We're only 6 fucking points above 18th

and we are only 6 points from 5th
do we get relegated in 18th

we are on 39 points so 12 more 4 wins and relegation is off the table who thinks with 20 games left we cant get 12 points

we only need to win one of 2 in hand to go joint 5th why all the headless chickens

 

[Jehovah]

I can't cope with this lack of consistency. Just when you think we're back we turn into shit again. I think we'll win tonight then go onto lose to some utter shitheads as per sufc policy.

 

[blade too long]

we will win enough to get in play offs and hopefully by May have a sorted side

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

Last 3 games

Spurs 2-2
Swindon 2-0
Gillingham 0-2

Is it really that bad being a Blade......

Agreed a loss tonight and questions need to be asked, personally you can see NC is terribly stubborn trust me... Rather than go attacking and let the fans have something to enjoy even if the outcome is not 3 points he will stay say in a 451 this evening and profess its 433 that I cant stand..

Lets back the boys, sing loud and proud and then sit on the fence after..... I think we are one big win of turning things around..... although the best bet on the coupon is 0-0 HT as per the other 15 games this season which has seen us drawing 0-0 at HT.

UTB

No its not bad Bob, just bloody frustrating. LIke you say the first two results you mention, great, everyone on a high, even losing to PNE didn't take too much of the shine off (good cup runs have to end sometimes) but then we get brought back down to earth against Gillingham.

 

[blade too long]

can only count league games in form if its league games we are discussing
http://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:league-one/form/matches:6/type:home-and-away
and even on recent form we arent bottom 6 relegation material

it was 4th time this season
wed played preston was first theyd won , had to happen one day , seeing as it was their 2nd win in last 10 between us

 

[Deano's Shorts]

I really don't think instant gratification can be used as a criticism of anyone that is unhappy about United's current position, regardless of how unrealistic their criticism might appear. It's the last thing that applies to us.

Point taken (I don't have that many decades of disappointment to draw upon for starters!) though I was referring more to the current Clough tenure than success as a club in the modern era. If we've languished so much for this long then it might take a little longer than a season and a half to establish something more permanent/generational, despite some good old fashioned cup runs and a surging league recovery - whether Nigel is the man for this or not...

If it's 5-0 tonight we can start talking about pipping an automatic spot again

 

[grafikhaus]

Personally I think Clough is the right man for the club for both now and the next few years. Let him build and take the time, sadly it will be another season in League one...

Good post, Swiss. Not too sure about this last bit ^^^, though.

Clough & United remind me of Pearce & Forest. After a succession of truly shite managers, we all want it to work. So bad it hurts. Every positive result - however rare - is looked at hopefully that we're moving in the right direction. But when it becomes 'one step forward, three steps back' it takes some defending.

The Cup runs, the back end of last season, even our early-season record of scoring decisive goals late on in the game has vanished. Tonight and the next two will probably mirror the same old. If, if we win tonight, it's easy to see it being quickly undone at Bristol & Notts County.

The overbearing emotion - however individuals choose to put it - is sheer bloody frustration. We (the fans) deserve much better than this.