Deep financial trouble ahead

[diode_blade]

Chuck my twopeneth in
Captain Pugwash and Master Bates sailed close to wind.

 

[HarryHaslam]

I’ve not heard we’re in a financial mess, is there any credible sources that hints that we are?

No.

 

[Guesty]

We've received a points deduction for not paying people, that's surely some credible evidence that the finances aren't robust.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

We've received a points deduction for not paying people, that's surely some credible evidence that the finances aren't robust.

Yeah but luckily next year we won't have players to not pay

 

[Silent Blade]

We've received a points deduction for not paying people, that's surely some credible evidence that the finances aren't robust.

It wasn't robust in the middle of last season not knowing that we would get promotion. We got punished for delayed payments last season not for this season.

 

[Flippity Gibbert]

I think the squad needs a refresh which, given that a lot of player are out of contract, will come next year.

That should take the outgoing wages down a bit. Only worry is if/when we start to underperform due to a new/young squad finding it's feet in the championship.

I'm expecting a bottom half of table finish next year which might not be terrible if we can get the finances in order... or play the hotel up front

Probably better to play the hotel in goal. It will move as fast as Grbic.

 

[Houston_Blade]

It wasn't robust in the middle of last season not knowing that we would get promotion. We got punished for delayed payments last season not for this season.

The good thing is that we’ve got most of the players whose fees that we didn’t pay off our books (apart from Brewster who will continue to be a financial and medical burden whilst offering nothing in return). We did however take on Hamer, Souza and other assorted shite who will need paying for.

The bad thing is that we either need to extend or replace a lot of players who are out of contract, this isn’t cheap and if we pay peanuts in wages we’ll get monkeys and it’s then an ever decreasing circle and we’re Huddersfield in 2 years rather than Leeds.

We won’t be paying £20m for players in the Championship so we shouldn’t be saddled with these large payments and I also expect that we won’t take on expensive loans like the ones we didn’t pay.

The way to avoid financial meltdown is to be very good at recruitment, we need some Duffy/Coutts/Clarke/Egan/Norwood/Baldock/Basham esque signings.

We probably also need to bring in some revenue from selling good players on an annual basis.

Most people think it’s Anel & Souza this year, what we don’t know is how the Archer deal was structured and what the actual upside to us will be on that one.

You’d then assume that next year we’d have to sell Hamer & Arblaster if we don’t go up.

After that it’s slim pickings and we’re back to wheeling and dealing.

I can see where the doom and gloom comes from, the way to avoid is either to get investment or get promoted quickly. Quick promotion then starts the cycle again!

 

[Carlton Blade]

The good thing is that we’ve got most of the players whose fees that we didn’t pay off our books (apart from Brewster who will continue to be a financial and medical burden whilst offering nothing in return). We did however take on Hamer, Souza and other assorted shite who will need paying for.

The bad thing is that we either need to extend or replace a lot of players who are out of contract, this isn’t cheap and if we pay peanuts in wages we’ll get monkeys and it’s then an ever decreasing circle and we’re Huddersfield in 2 years rather than Leeds.

We won’t be paying £20m for players in the Championship so we shouldn’t be saddled with these large payments and I also expect that we won’t take on expensive loans like the ones we didn’t pay.

The way to avoid financial meltdown is to be very good at recruitment, we need some Duffy/Coutts/Clarke/Egan/Norwood/Baldock/Basham esque signings.

We probably also need to bring in some revenue from selling good players on an annual basis.

Most people think it’s Anel & Souza this year, what we don’t know is how the Archer deal was structured and what the actual upside to us will be on that one.

You’d then assume that next year we’d have to sell Hamer & Arblaster if we don’t go up.

After that it’s slim pickings and we’re back to wheeling and dealing.

I can see where the doom and gloom comes from, the way to avoid is either to get investment or get promoted quickly. Quick promotion then starts the cycle again!

We need 3 seasons per 9 in the PL under the current financial system and with this owner in order to remain competitive at Championship level. Even then, the current debt level is likely costing £7m+ a season to service

1. TV Money
2. Parachute Payments
3. Parachute Payments
4. TV Money
5. Parachute Payments
6. Parachute Payments
7. TV Money
8. Parachute Payments
9. Parachute Payments

Problems with this are, we have to pay a fair whack out in outsourcing fees to sign players because we don't have the knowledge in house. We have to restrict players to no more than 3 year contracts if bought in a TV money season, 2 or 1 year if it's a y1 parachute payments or Y2. To create any leeway to spend any real money or spend anything on the club we have to borrow money (expensive to pay back) or sell players.

 

[Maidenhead]

Deleted. Wrong quote

 

[Lane Ender]

Our management the Prince with his sidekicks and our joke of a manager together with his L2 assistant we are I’m afraid heading back to L1 the Blackpool situation comes to mind

 

[Carlton Blade]

Our management the Prince with his sidekicks and our joke of a manager together with his L2 assistant we are I’m afraid heading back to L1 the Blackpool situation comes to mind

You think the current owner is equivalent to the Oyston's?

Why is Knill a "L2 assistant"?

 

[Houston_Blade]

We need 3 seasons per 9 in the PL under the current financial system and with this owner in order to remain competitive at Championship level. Even then, the current debt level is likely costing £7m+ a season to service

1. TV Money
2. Parachute Payments
3. Parachute Payments
4. TV Money
5. Parachute Payments
6. Parachute Payments
7. TV Money
8. Parachute Payments
9. Parachute Payments

Problems with this are, we have to pay a fair whack out in outsourcing fees to sign players because we don't have the knowledge in house. We have to restrict players to no more than 3 year contracts if bought in a TV money season, 2 or 1 year if it's a y1 parachute payments or Y2. To create any leeway to spend any real money or spend anything on the club we have to borrow money (expensive to pay back) or sell players.

It’s a really flawed pyramid when you start looking at it financially, Norwich and West Brom both tried the ‘yo-yo’ approach and it’s just not sustainable.

I obviously want to see my team at the highest level, however without investment your annual view there shows how futile it is!

At what point does a promotion become something we don’t celebrate because we know what’s at the end of it?

Sad state of affairs.

 

[Carlton Blade]

It’s a really flawed pyramid when you start looking at it financially, Norwich and West Brom both tried the ‘yo-yo’ approach and it’s just not sustainable.

I obviously want to see my team at the highest level, however without investment your annual view there shows how futile it is!

At what point does a promotion become something we don’t celebrate because we know what’s at the end of it?

Sad state of affairs.

We need ro get promoted so we can compete in the division below for the 2 seasons following relegation

AND IT'S LIVE

 

[Lane Ender]

You think the current owner is equivalent to the Oyston's?

Why is Knill a "L2 assistant"?

I believe the Prince guided by his advises are slowly milking our club dry and if he can’t sell we will be in administration.
Alan Knill never achieved anything until anything before he teamed up with Wilder admiteredly we had four good years but the pair are fucked devoid of ideas

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

I believe the Prince guided by his advises are slowly milking our club dry and if he can’t sell we will be in administration.
Alan Knill never achieved anything until anything before he teamed up with Wilder admiteredly we had four good years but the pair are fucked devoid of ideas

I’m no fan but I’m not aware of evidence that the Prince is milking the club. Now if you’d said he can’t afford the upkeep or is asking too much for the sale and we’re going to stagnate without investment I’d be in agreement. I’m sure someone will tell me otherwise but I’m not sure the accounts back up the milking claim.

 

[Bladesman]

I’m no fan but I’m not aware of evidence that the Prince is milking the club. Now if you’d said he can’t afford the upkeep or is asking too much for the sale and we’re going to stagnate without investment I’d be in agreement. I’m sure someone will tell me otherwise but I’m not sure the accounts back up the milking claim.

That bunker he has in Rotherham doesn't pay for itself.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I believe the Prince guided by his advises are slowly milking our club dry and if he can’t sell we will be in administration.
Alan Knill never achieved anything until anything before he teamed up with Wilder admiteredly we had four good years but the pair are fucked devoid of ideas

He’s also an international team assistant manager, Knill is not an issue at the club.

 

[Andy67]

Not sure the two pieces of land would cover a loan fee of a decent player. It will be small beer.

Ridiculous thing was the club boasted about spending premier league money on these things. New facilities for academy and first team promised five years ago. I noticed there wasn’t a boast that the attempt to be in 17th had been given serious consideration at the start of the season

 

[Lane Ender]

I’m no fan but I’m not aware of evidence that the Prince is milking the club. Now if you’d said he can’t afford the upkeep or is asking too much for the sale and we’re going to stagnate without investment I’d be in agreement. I’m sure someone will tell me otherwise but I’m not sure the accounts back up the milking claim.

Do you for one minute the jokes of clubs what Prince has bought into are self sufficient no fucking way his organisation filters money premiership money our clubs money through their books that was always his plan

 

[SGBlade]

Yep, amortisation of transfer fees paid (or profit from transfer fees received) makes for good headlines but ultimately doesn’t mean much, especially in an industry where 90% of the ‘businesses’ perennially operate at a huge operating loss.

Cash flow is what matters. The parachute payments are huge relative to anything else in the division, so we’ll be able to pay more in wages than almost any other club. Imminent financial meltdown was averted when we went up last year. We’ll face that again in 18 months but for now the big question is whether we can dramatically improve our recruitment.

Recent history suggests we’re not bad at recruiting for this level (particularly loans, in which our record is second to none) and Arblaster could be the rabbit out the hat that Iliman was.

Top six would be a very reasonable aim this year, even if we had zero players contracted. League position tends to follow pretty closely a club’s ability to pay wages.

Amortisation isn’t a cash expenditure. Dore and the hotel will surely be eating up cash unless funded by loans therefore spreading the payments. The admin costs will probably be much the same as previously so cash flow depends mainly on sales cash in - unlikely all up front - and payments for wages/transfer fees out.

Plus championship football usually means losses which will require funding

 

[Lane Ender]

He’s also an international team assistant manager, Knill is not an issue at the club.

Yea we’ve been really well coached this season sorry him and Wilder come as the perfect busted flush

 

[leppingslaneblade]

I believe the Prince guided by his advises are slowly milking our club dry and if he can’t sell we will be in administration.
Alan Knill never achieved anything until anything before he teamed up with Wilder admiteredly we had four good years but the pair are fucked devoid of ideas

Cheer up fella.

 

[SGBlade]

The good thing is that we’ve got most of the players whose fees that we didn’t pay off our books (apart from Brewster who will continue to be a financial and medical burden whilst offering nothing in return). We did however take on Hamer, Souza and other assorted shite who will need paying for.

The bad thing is that we either need to extend or replace a lot of players who are out of contract, this isn’t cheap and if we pay peanuts in wages we’ll get monkeys and it’s then an ever decreasing circle and we’re Huddersfield in 2 years rather than Leeds.

We won’t be paying £20m for players in the Championship so we shouldn’t be saddled with these large payments and I also expect that we won’t take on expensive loans like the ones we didn’t pay.

The way to avoid financial meltdown is to be very good at recruitment, we need some Duffy/Coutts/Clarke/Egan/Norwood/Baldock/Basham esque signings.

We probably also need to bring in some revenue from selling good players on an annual basis.

Most people think it’s Anel & Souza this year, what we don’t know is how the Archer deal was structured and what the actual upside to us will be on that one.

You’d then assume that next year we’d have to sell Hamer & Arblaster if we don’t go up.

After that it’s slim pickings and we’re back to wheeling and dealing.

I can see where the doom and gloom comes from, the way to avoid is either to get investment or get promoted quickly. Quick promotion then starts the cycle again!

Agree 100%. We’ve got 18-24 months of still being the big dogs, wage-wise. Then we’re back to being a Stoke, Huddersfield, Birmingham etc.

What we need now is sensible recruitment with the odd gamble made on one or two big loans and to give the young lads a crack. I’m ok with aiming for a playoff place finish for the next two years and see how we go.

We’re certainly not coming down with the firepower of a Leicester, Leeds or even Soton. But we’re not a Sunderland 17/18 either. We’ll still be competitive.

 

[Lane Ender]

Cheer up fella.

Never been as down with football pal but hey it’s Friday 5 bells and it’s beer o’clock

 

[alcoblade]

Income before sales next season will be £70m. Cost of finance around £7m or £8m, Amortisation on fees is pretty much covered by the Ndiaye/Berge sales, there are almost zero commitments on contracts to players currently so any additions to the wage base have to be signed off.

You're going to have to offer a little bit more than that

Isn’t that also before any carry over from over £100,000,000 (minus costs) received this season?

 

[BobblesBlade]

Wages , promotion bonuses , Brewster 5 years , training pitches , land for training centre , 2 kop parcels , hotel , loan fees , transfer fees last summer , need I continue ?

380 million quid from 3 prem years.

We should be up 80 million quid. Where’s the money gone.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Isn’t that without any carry over from over £100,000,000 (minus costs) this season?

I'm not expecting any money from this season to have been banked but it's not impossible

 

[alcoblade]

I'm not expecting any money from this season to have been banked but it's not impossible

I’d be surprised if not, but then again the financial black hole that is football always surprises me!

 

[alcoblade]

380 million quid from 3 prem years.

We should be up 80 million quid. Where’s the money gone.

For a start we probably won’t have received about £120,000,000 of that yet.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I’d be surprised if not, but then again the financial black hole that is football always surprises me!

Wage bill before bonuses was about £36m last season. You'd expect that'll be £50m. Increased costs, maybe £25m? Still £7m+ loan repayments, any transfer spend/loan fees (£10m?). That's £92m already