David Brooks Windfall £,£££,£££

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Chali 2na said:
That isn't what got us to league 1 - Failing to replace players and bad choices of manager got us to league 1.

Living within your means is certainly possible without inevitable relegation: United have proven that for the last 2 seasons.

Either way, it's a pointless discussion. Our current owners aren't willing to put in any extra money. Unless you're wealthy enough to put your own money in, living within our means is the only option for now.
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selling Magure, Walker, Naughton, Cavert Lewin, Jags, and Lawton put us in division three for six years.
 



Danny04 said:
I saw him play games, with respect players don’t just appear in the first team. He always had that something extra that set him apart.
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Jags appeared and we'd replaced Badger, Brooks, we might have replaced Currie?

Find Woody's replacement and he'll be off as well.

Why waste the money finding players for other clubs? Let them find their own.
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
Jags appeared and we'd replaced Badger, Brooks, we might have replaced Currie?

Find Woody's replacement and he'll be off as well.

Why waste the money finding players for other clubs? Let them find their own.
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Like other clubs find players for United?
 
Danny04 said:
£5m. You?
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To us £ 10 million, to another club given his age yes £ 5/6 million.

A year ago Madine and Hogan were valued at £ 6 and £ 9 million though I suspect after underperforming seasons neither would command that fee now.

I wonder which Brooks we would have seen this season if we forced him to stay on his contract after he had been offered a 3x salary increase and million pound signing on fee from Bournemouth.

That is why we have a manager to make these decisions and in Wilder we have one of the best, if we get promoted will he have what it takes to operate at a higher level, I look forward to finding out.

UTB.
 
Turns out he'd injury prone . Out for weeks and bournemouth crumbled at Cardiff without him .

If you rely heavily on one class player it leads to a clubs downfall e.g. Tony currie
 
Danny04 said:
Not as precisely as that, no, as far as I recall. Just that he’d been hugely undersold.
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Genuine question that no one else has been able to answer but you may have some inside track on....

How many more clubs bid for Brooks other than Bournemouth?

If the answer is none then it goes back to the "bird in hand theory". Brooks won because he gets to play in the PL and maximise his earnings, presumably when he changed his agent in the summer this is what he wanted. We win because we received a transfer fee for him at the time that would ensure that we could keep the financial wolves from the door for another year. It also meant that we could turn down offers for other players like John Fleck (we'd have snapped their hands off for £4m if we were skint) and apparently JOC (although I'm not sure if the interest in him in the summer was bollocks or not).

In hindsight it seems that Bournemouth have picked him up for a decent price, however I live in an inferior Bladey world (copyright Pinchy) where getting £11.5m for a player with a handful of first team appearances is a pretty good deal for us.
 



derekacorah said:
Genuine question that no one else has been able to answer but you may have some inside track on....

How many more clubs bid for Brooks other than Bournemouth?

If the answer is none then it goes back to the "bird in hand theory". Brooks won because he gets to play in the PL and maximise his earnings, presumably when he changed his agent in the summer this is what he wanted. We win because we received a transfer fee for him at the time that would ensure that we could keep the financial wolves from the door for another year. It also meant that we could turn down offers for other players like John Fleck (we'd have snapped their hands off for £4m if we were skint) and apparently JOC (although I'm not sure if the interest in him in the summer was bollocks or not).

In hindsight it seems that Bournemouth have picked him up for a decent price, however I live in an inferior Bladey world (copyright Pinchy) where getting £11.5m for a player with a handful of first team appearances is a pretty good deal for us.
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If this club cannot keep ‘wolves from the door’ despite 6 years of cost-cutting in league 1, spending minimal transfer fees under Wilder (Egan aside) then we are being badly managed at top level. And I’m well aware there is ‘more to it than that’ so don’t anyone tell me to look at the accounts.

A £50m sale would be presumed 20% income of the profit from the assumed £11m transfer fee. 20% of £39m - £7.8m. Add that to the £11m and we’re talking best part of £20m. If that doesn’t keep wolves from the door then nothing will. That would keep the club clear for 3 years (£6m a season isn’t it?? - adjust that to 2 years with presumed wage increases).

Fag packet maths, mind you.

As for clubs in for him and it only being Bournemouth.... Bournemouth. Fuckin Bournemouth. I saw us beat them 2-0 at their place a few christmases back and now they’re taking players off us and making, potentially, £30m.
 
Ainsley Harriott said:
If this club cannot keep ‘wolves from the door’ despite 6 years of cost-cutting in league 1, spending minimal transfer fees under Wilder (Egan aside) then we are being badly managed at top level. And I’m well aware there is ‘more to it than that’ so don’t anyone tell me to look at the accounts.

A £50m sale would be presumed 20% income of the profit from the assumed £11m transfer fee. 20% of £39m - £7.8m. Add that to the £11m and we’re talking best part of £20m. If that doesn’t keep wolves from the door then nothing will. That would keep the club clear for 3 years (£6m a season isn’t it?? - adjust that to 2 years with presumed wage increases).

Fag packet maths, mind you.

As for clubs in for him and it only being Bournemouth.... Bournemouth. Fuckin Bournemouth. I saw us beat them 2-0 at their place a few christmases back and now they’re taking players off us and making, potentially, £30m.
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The £11m will already have gone by the end of this season. We’ve effectively had it all already.
 
Ainsley Harriott said:
If this club cannot keep ‘wolves from the door’ despite 6 years of cost-cutting in league 1, spending minimal transfer fees under Wilder (Egan aside) then we are being badly managed at top level. And I’m well aware there is ‘more to it than that’ so don’t anyone tell me to look at the accounts.

A £50m sale would be presumed 20% income of the profit from the assumed £11m transfer fee. 20% of £39m - £7.8m. Add that to the £11m and we’re talking best part of £20m. If that doesn’t keep wolves from the door then nothing will. That would keep the club clear for 3 years (£6m a season isn’t it?? - adjust that to 2 years with presumed wage increases).

Fag packet maths, mind you.

As for clubs in for him and it only being Bournemouth.... Bournemouth. Fuckin Bournemouth. I saw us beat them 2-0 at their place a few christmases back and now they’re taking players off us and making, potentially, £30m.
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If the owners were willing we could easily take the approach to aim for a loss of £12m per year and stay under the P&S cap, however that would mean that they have to put the money in themselves. Previously our owners decided just to fund the loss that we made each year. This year it's different as they've used a loan from the bank secured on the Brooks cash so that's £7m of the £11m fee already committed.

Our wage bill will have increased since we received this money therefore it's safe to assume that we'll need more next year. Any proceeds from the sell on clause of Brooks will go towards this but I'd say we need a minimum £8m again, possibly £10m to cover the gap next year. Where does this money come from? Either selling players or funds from the owners.

The owners have pretty much done putting money in so it's the former that we'll need. The other option is to get to the PL and all the worries go away for the time being, until we quadruple our wage bill and get relegated, at which point we're up shit creek.

It's ok patronising Bournemouth but the fact is that they are a bigger draw than us because they play in the PL and we don't. Thinking we are bigger or better than a PL team is pig logic so leave them to it.
 
Tom Bott said:
To us £ 10 million, to another club given his age yes £ 5/6 million.

A year ago Madine and Hogan were valued at £ 6 and £ 9 million though I suspect after underperforming seasons neither would command that fee now.

I wonder which Brooks we would have seen this season if we forced him to stay on his contract after he had been offered a 3x salary increase and million pound signing on fee from Bournemouth.

That is why we have a manager to make these decisions and in Wilder we have one of the best, if we get promoted will he have what it takes to operate at a higher level, I look forward to finding out.

UTB.
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All fair points. Knowing the lad, though, there was never any chance of him becoming a disruptive influence. He signed a long-term contract so he’d have honoured it, although it was never likely to come to that - he was always going to go, the only question was how much for
 
derekacorah said:
Genuine question that no one else has been able to answer but you may have some inside track on....

How many more clubs bid for Brooks other than Bournemouth?

If the answer is none then it goes back to the "bird in hand theory". Brooks won because he gets to play in the PL and maximise his earnings, presumably when he changed his agent in the summer this is what he wanted. We win because we received a transfer fee for him at the time that would ensure that we could keep the financial wolves from the door for another year. It also meant that we could turn down offers for other players like John Fleck (we'd have snapped their hands off for £4m if we were skint) and apparently JOC (although I'm not sure if the interest in him in the summer was bollocks or not).

In hindsight it seems that Bournemouth have picked him up for a decent price, however I live in an inferior Bladey world (copyright Pinchy) where getting £11.5m for a player with a handful of first team appearances is a pretty good deal for us.
Click to expand...
Bournemouth were the only bidders, at that stage. Spurs showed a bit of leg but didn’t follow it up with a bid. Key part there is ‘at that stage’ though. How much higher would they have gone? There were two months left of the window when he was sold
 
Danny04 said:
Bournemouth were the only bidders, at that stage. Spurs showed a bit of leg but didn’t follow it up with a bid. Key part there is ‘at that stage’ though. How much higher would they have gone? There were two months left of the window when he was sold
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I go with the "bird in hand theory" on this one. As someone who has invested money into businesses I am quite a risk averse investor, one key assumption of many economic theories is that most investors (i.e. Prince and Kev) are the same. That said I am not rich or stupid enough to invest in a football club and expect a decent return at the end of it. This is where the business of football and the real world are poles apart.
 
As much as selling our best players is frustrating there is no team in the world that doesn’t have to sell there best players in the world if there wanted only maybe barca and Real Madrid.
It’s called the food chain and there’s always someone with more money above every team
 
derekacorah said:
I go with the "bird in hand theory" on this one. As someone who has invested money into businesses I am quite a risk averse investor, one key assumption of many economic theories is that most investors (i.e. Prince and Kev) are the same. That said I am not rich or stupid enough to invest in a football club and expect a decent return at the end of it. This is where the business of football and the real world are poles apart.
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What would have been the worst case scenario had the first summer bid been rejected?
 
FallowfieldBlade said:
As much as selling our best players is frustrating there is no team in the world that doesn’t have to sell there best players in the world if there wanted only maybe barca and Real Madrid.
It’s called the food chain and there’s always someone with more money above every team
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That logic is simply not allowed on this forum - it doesn't fit agendas ;)

UTB
 
derekacorah said:
The owners have pretty much done putting money in so it's the former that we'll need. The other option is to get to the PL and all the worries go away for the time being, until we quadruple our wage bill and get relegated, at which point we're up shit creek.
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What no ones discussed yet is what happens to the proceeds of a return to the premiership? In the event of no ruling or an appeal to the ruling, United will in all likelihood still be in limbo at the start of next season if we go up. If there's say £120m on the table, are the Prince and McCabe going to sanction the spending of it or are they more likely to agree on splitting it? Half or nothing, spin of the roulette wheel, it will be the biggest gamble either of them will ever take if they invest it in the club as one of them is going to lose the court case and will soon be £60m poorer. My money would be on them holding it back and CW getting fuck all so the "worries going away", as you put it, will only just have started.
 
Danny04 said:
What would have been the worst case scenario had the first summer bid been rejected?
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Not sure, he could have had a freak road accident leaving him unable to play football again, he could have been struck by lightning on his way from the car to the front door. The butterfly effect of not Bournemouth not signing him could have led to nuclear war and then football stadiums around the world wouldn't even exist anymore.

I can do loads of worst case if you want?

Likely case would have been that despite the fact that the signings of Egan and Norwood didn't hinge on this mystical 'Brooks money', they still might not have been signed and we'd be 13th not 3rd in the league.

Best case we could have kept Brooks, he could have scored 150 goals by Christmas and we'd all be sailing on HMS PTL at the moment enjoying the ride.
 
derekacorah said:
Not sure, he could have had a freak road accident leaving him unable to play football again, he could have been struck by lightning on his way from the car to the front door. The butterfly effect of not Bournemouth not signing him could have led to nuclear war and then football stadiums around the world wouldn't even exist anymore.

I can do loads of worst case if you want?

Likely case would have been that despite the fact that the signings of Egan and Norwood didn't hinge on this mystical 'Brooks money', they still might not have been signed and we'd be 13th not 3rd in the league.

Best case we could have kept Brooks, he could have scored 150 goals by Christmas and we'd all be sailing on HMS PTL at the moment enjoying the ride.
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Sorry, thought this was a serious discussion
 



snootyfenooty said:
What no ones discussed yet is what happens to the proceeds of a return to the premiership? In the event of no ruling or an appeal to the ruling, United will in all likelihood still be in limbo at the start of next season if we go up. If there's say £120m on the table, are the Prince and McCabe going to sanction the spending of it or are they more likely to agree on splitting it? Half or nothing, spin of the roulette wheel, it will be the biggest gamble either of them will ever take if they invest it in the club as one of them is going to lose the court case and will soon be £60m poorer. My money would be on them holding it back and CW getting fuck all so the "worries going away", as you put it, will only just have started.
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If we get promoted I have no doubt that our board will try and do it in the tightest way possible, as you rightly say this would likely end up as a false economy.

There's a massive existential problem of being a PL team in the way that we will be if we ever get there. We all know that it won't last forever and even if we did end up doing a Wigan, Stoke, Bolton etc and last a few years, at some point you commit to massive wages and it all goes tits up. You then get relegated and end up in the Championship absolutely screwed if you don't get an instant return.

Sorry to be a miser but this is the reality of the future for us. We either piss about and don't commit in the Championship and have the odd season in the PL and rich when we come back down or we commit and end up fucked in the long run.
 
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