Incoming? Darragh Lenihan

[mancunianblade]

Yeah sorry that's my point (and I think we're talking about the same thing) a ball winning midfielder is what we want not necessarily a defensive midfielder... maybe it's because I was part of the original champo generation but to me a defensive midfielder rarely ventures past the half way line... that all said I think they class Kante as a defensive midfielder and he's EVERYWHERE. Kante. We want Kante. Or a cheap version of him from league 1/2.

Yes we are, some one a little more direct than Monty, I would suggest Coady, he was perfect for what we need and I think his days at Wolves are all but over with their new policy of spending daft amount of €€€€s on Portuguese players.

He is in the last year of his contract I believe so they could be willing to let him go quite cheap too. Must admit for a guy who only made his 2nd appearance at 20 years old he has done well to cram 145 games into 4 years. the perfect fit IMO and potentially cheaper than Leonard (fee wise)

 

[Norderner]

Yes we are, some one a little more direct than Monty, I would suggest Coady, he was perfect for what we need and I think his days at Wolves are all but over with their new policy of spending daft amount of €€€€s on Portuguese players.

He is in the last year of his contract I believe so they could be willing to let him go quite cheap too. Must admit for a guy who only made his 2nd appearance at 20 years old he has done well to cram 145 games into 4 years. the perfect fit IMO and potentially cheaper than Leonard (fee wise)

Good shout, re Coady.

 

[mancunianblade]

Cant agree with that.

The game has evolved, the ball is rarely bouncing about the middle of the park out of control, or being lumped into that area needing a big dominant figure to win it.
The ball is generally won there by forcing errors or misplaced passes or poor touches, and having a player there to pounce on that.

So it's more to do with making sure your midfield is never caught out of position, so that when the oppos have the ball we have players in the right place to close them down and be behind the ball.
CDM's in the like of the Makelele, and now Kante for example are played in systems where they just sit. They patrol in front of the centre halves allowing others to push on and then provide cover if they lose the ball. They also to some degree shield the back two and prevent balls played into the feet of strikers.
Kante is supremely fit and runs all day, he's all action but also superb at reading play and where the ball is going.He is almost always in the right place at the right time, and therfore in a position to challenge for the ball and close players down, often doing it so well that he's on them before they receive the pass.

Now it's open to question whether we need such a player in our current system (not saying we wouldn't want Kante by the way, I think he would be excellent as an all out midfielder not just sitting in the middle, as he proved for Chelsea IMHO)
The point I'm trying to make here, is that with the system Wilder favours he needs players in midfield who are fit and prepared to work hard without the ball so that they restrict the time of opponents and force errors. Then with the ball are good enough to receive the ball under pressure and have the vision and ability to spread the play and pass it quickly and accurately.
The ability to keep the ball is crucial, as it is this which allows us to make do without needing a CDM, both Coutts and Fleck can be relied upon to receive the ball in a tight space and retain possession. It's rarely lost through a bad touch or poor pass.

What we saw last season will happen again, but the only difference is that the errors from opponents will be less. So we will just have to be patient and work even harder.
In short...no CDM is required. Just cover for the two we have, whom I find myself saying again, will be and are excellent players who will show they are up there amongst the best in the championship.
If we were looking to buy 2 players with that ability to play as they do we would be needing several millions to fund it, we simply couldn't afford it.

Good post, I think we are in essence making the same point though. By ball winner I don't mean a Lump heading everything that falls short of the CBs, but more a player who breaks up play, like Kante, and like you also said a DM like Kante is fashionable now so the price is high, If i was to give my honest opinion I find Kantes 2nd touch is a tackle which some how skews his stats to work in his favour. and also his distribution is poor having said that he's an utter pest and as such integral to the high tempo game and probably plays a large part in the reason he won successive titles with 2 different teams but that is irrelevant to the post sorry.

My reasoning for mentioning JOC is not because he's a big lump but he's actually very good with the ball at his feet, he can break up play,has good distribution and loves to run with the ball at his feet he is very similar to Eric Dier imo.

But realistically JOC needs to stay where he is,but as I mentioned in another reply Connor Coady (please excuse the ex blade tip) could be a very good addition and at a good price too. I would like to think we won't change how play too often but we are going to have too in some instances. Id like us to line up against most teams like we did last season with Duffy or someone like him attack minded with Coutts and Fleck playing with freedom whilst keeping one eye on defending. in certain games, harder ones Id drop the Duffy type for a Coady, plenty of drive and attacking intent but who's first instinct is to break up play and protect the back 4.

 

[Chali 2na]

Lenihan will be a Blade by the end of next week. Information from source at U-23 game.......

 

[GaryHamsonsLeftBootLace]

Isn't the point of playing 3 CBs that you don't need a holding midfielder? Isn't it one of the CB's roles to step out and break up play as it unfolds? If you stuck a CDM in there, we'd be overcrowded in the defensive third, we'd have to drop back to four at the back IMHO. Also, isn't Basham a defensive midfielder by trade?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of a good CDM who sits in front of the defence, breaks up play, can start attacking breaks with a pinpoint ball forward etc, but I already think that's what our CBs take turns in doing.

 

[ucandomagic]

Isn't the point of playing 3 CBs that you don't need a holding midfielder? Isn't it one of the CB's roles to step out and break up play as it unfolds? If you stuck a CDM in there, we'd be overcrowded in the defensive third, we'd have to drop back to four at the back IMHO. Also, isn't Basham a defensive midfielder by trade?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of a good CDM who sits in front of the defence, breaks up play, can start attacking breaks with a pinpoint ball forward etc, but I already think that's what our CBs take turns in doing.

With no FB's, a back 3 can be stretched, leaving each of them potentially exposed to a one on one on the break without a DM in front.

If you have a quick agile back 3 they should cope. The agile CB in the Prem became a necessity when Cantona brought the number 10 role to this country, and CB's were attacked on the ground rather than in the air. So if we're allowing both our CM's forward with poor coverage we need 3 quick guys at the back. This is clearly another option - Bash and Jack are pretty quick - I don't know about Stearman - but I guess Lenihan probably is. Jake certainly isn't!

UTB

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

Isn't the point of playing 3 CBs that you don't need a holding midfielder? Isn't it one of the CB's roles to step out and break up play as it unfolds? If you stuck a CDM in there, we'd be overcrowded in the defensive third, we'd have to drop back to four at the back IMHO. Also, isn't Basham a defensive midfielder by trade?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of a good CDM who sits in front of the defence, breaks up play, can start attacking breaks with a pinpoint ball forward etc, but I already think that's what our CBs take turns in doing.

In a three yes but if we go back to a four how confident are we that Bash can fill that need?

CW is big on tactical flexibility so he may feel a DM (albeit he refers to them all as midfielders) may be needed to give him scope to swap formations

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Isn't the point of playing 3 CBs that you don't need a holding midfielder? Isn't it one of the CB's roles to step out and break up play as it unfolds? If you stuck a CDM in there, we'd be overcrowded in the defensive third, we'd have to drop back to four at the back IMHO. Also, isn't Basham a defensive midfielder by trade?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of a good CDM who sits in front of the defence, breaks up play, can start attacking breaks with a pinpoint ball forward etc, but I already think that's what our CBs take turns in doing.

I was always the middle one of a back three (when played as a DC) and my role was literally to direct and sweep up anything that the two defenders missed.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

It may well be,but i think the source is the same as what the goalkeeper rumour i spoke about on Tuesday night came from.

I am the very last person to be anywhere close to be ITK,it was just fortunate where i was stood,coupled with me being a nosey earwigging twat.

What i will also add,i thought he could have been talking about Morsy signing,not this lad from Blackburn

 

[Blade58]

It may well be,but i think the source is the same as what the goalkeeper rumour i spoke about on Tuesday night came from.

I am the very last person to be anywhere close to be ITK,it was just fortunate where i was stood,coupled with me being a nosey earwigging twat.

What i will also add,i thought he could have been talking about Morsy signing,not this lad from Blackburn

MORSY?...........................................ARRRRRGGGGGGH

I see another 100 page thread on the horizon

 

[Boxer Blade]

It may well be,but i think the source is the same as what the goalkeeper rumour i spoke about on Tuesday night came from.

I am the very last person to be anywhere close to be ITK,it was just fortunate where i was stood,coupled with me being a nosey earwigging twat.

What i will also add,i thought he could have been talking about Morsy signing,not this lad from Blackburn

You, nosey? Never fred

 

[Sheffsteel]

Coutts Is premier league when he's on the ball, but when the opposition have it, he's a liability. Be interesting how we set up next season against the better teams.

Totally agree, actually in possession we will be a high level team and impressive even by Championship standards.
Last season all our tactics seemed to be centred about "what we would do", instead of focussing on "stopping the opposition"

I'm heard many of the ex Forest players talking about the brilliant Brian Clough.
When asked about Cloughs tactics, they all said he never bothered much with tactics, he rarely worried about the opposition or rarely gave any credit to the opposition. It was all about "how Forest perform" and a "let them worry about us" attitude.

It will be so interesting next season to see if Wilders continues with his open attacking tactics.
If we get thumped 3 or 4-0 in early matches it could all go pear shape.
Wilder might get loads of stick for being tactically naive and then he might turn into a Nigel Clough, where we are very solid but more cautious/ negative and tactical trying to negate the strengths of the opposition.

Remember Wilder has virtually no management experience playing against really talented sides who can cause problems.

So playing against quality sides next season is a new experience for Wilder. How will he react and set the team up?
I'm hoping he sticks to his guns and remains positive focussing on offence. Don't think Wilder has ever approached a game where he parks the bus hoping to keep it 0-0 at halftime. It will be really interesting, can't wait.

 

[Fanny magnet]

They certainly are. They'll take the Championship in their stylish strides.

For those who haven't heard, Tufty hates talk of AMs and DMs and HMs and SMs. It does his 'ead in. He likes midfielders. The name needs no further refinement, he says.

For those who haven't heard ?
You post the same shit about 9000 times a day how can anyone not know ?

Maybe people just think it's your opinion and actually nothing to do with what wilder does or doesn't think ,so automatically discount it as the ramblings of a self obsessed bore

 

[Pinchy]

For those who haven't heard ?
You post the same shit about 9000 times a day how can anyone not know ?

Maybe people just think it's your opinion and actually nothing to do with what wilder does or doesn't think ,so automatically discount it as the ramblings of a self obsessed bore

Then they'd be wrong, I listen carefully to what the manager says. It was very nearly word for word what he said in an early interview last season. Others less boring and self obsessed than I will certainly have heard it as well.

Midfielder is a perfectly adequate appellation. It's only those who play computer games who want to add unnecessary prefixes.

Of course different midfielders will have different qualities but none should be permitted to do half a job. The talented guy has to be able to put his foot in and the ball winner has to be able to play a bit.

 

[Reedy1889]

Apparently we've had another bid for this guy rejected aswell.

 

[Stretch]

Looks like the £5 that we upped the bid by wasn't enough then.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I think we do need a good aggressive ball winning midfielder. We don't really have one. Fleck is probably the nearest thing we've got. Basham gives it everything he's got too, but he's not a great tackler. Just because someone is a ball-winning midfielder doesn't necessarily mean they can't play the ball a bit either. I know we've had a lot of "ball-winning" midfielders down the years that could tackle but couldn't do much else, but it doesn't have to be that way. I'm thinking of someone who can play the game a bit like Ivan Campo did some years ago for Bolton. Hard as nails but could also play a bit. I guess these type of players are few and far between though and we'll be lucky to find anyone of that class, but I get the impression that the lad Leonard may be in that mould. Someone mentioned Morsy again on here and I'd hate to add to that rumour, but I've seen quite a lot of him and I also think he'd be an excellent fit in that role. He's very dominant and aggressive on the ball.

 

[HydeParkBlade]

I think we do need a good aggressive ball winning midfielder. We don't really have one. Fleck is probably the nearest thing we've got. Basham gives it everything he's got too, but he's not a great tackler. Just because someone is a ball-winning midfielder doesn't necessarily mean they can't play the ball a bit either. I know we've had a lot of "ball-winning" midfielders down the years that could tackle but couldn't do much else, but it doesn't have to be that way. I'm thinking of someone who can play the game a bit like Ivan Campo did some years ago for Bolton. Hard as nails but could also play a bit. I guess these type of players are few and far between though and we'll be lucky to find anyone of that class, but I get the impression that the lad Leonard may be in that mould. Someone mentioned Morsy again on here and I'd hate to add to that rumour, but I've seen quite a lot of him and I also think he'd be an excellent fit in that role. He's very dominant and aggressive on the ball.

He would be great but do you not think height would be an issue if we added him to our midfield?

 

[B14Nco]

Totally agree, actually in possession we will be a high level team and impressive even by Championship standards.
Last season all our tactics seemed to be centred about "what we would do", instead of focussing on "stopping the opposition"

I'm heard many of the ex Forest players talking about the brilliant Brian Clough.
When asked about Cloughs tactics, they all said he never bothered much with tactics, he rarely worried about the opposition or rarely gave any credit to the opposition. It was all about "how Forest perform" and a "let them worry about us" attitude.

It will be so interesting next season to see if Wilders continues with his open attacking tactics.
If we get thumped 3 or 4-0 in early matches it could all go pear shape.
Wilder might get loads of stick for being tactically naive and then he might turn into a Nigel Clough, where we are very solid but more cautious/ negative and tactical trying to negate the strengths of the opposition.

Remember Wilder has virtually no management experience playing against really talented sides who can cause problems.

So playing against quality sides next season is a new experience for Wilder. How will he react and set the team up?
I'm hoping he sticks to his guns and remains positive focussing on offence. Don't think Wilder has ever approached a game where he parks the bus hoping to keep it 0-0 at halftime. It will be really interesting, can't wait.

If we go into this season worrying about the opposition we'll go down. We need to be mindful about other teams but we need to still try and play our game... and as for Coutts 'a liability' is a little harsh... he's just not a ball winning midfielder.

 

[Ranmoorblade]

Strappon reckons last bid declined was £1.5 million.

 

[Ricky]

Also saying that if it gets to £2m then it's a goer.

If we spend anything like that on him it's a massive commitment from us. But I don't see any particular place where he'd slot into the team?

If we're spending that sort of money we should forget about Leonard and use Lenihan (and Basham) for both CB and CM.

 

[GroovyBrad]

I would, personally, see us spend 2 million (if that is the case) on an attack minded midfielder, and get Leonard in

 

[Blade58]

Also saying that if it gets to £2m then it's a goer.

If we spend anything like that on him it's a massive commitment from us. But I don't see any particular place where he'd slot into the team?

If we're spending that sort of money we should forget about Leonard and use Lenihan (and Basham) for both CB and CM.

£2m? How good is this lad?

Not heard of him before CW's interest

 

[Grizzly blade]

Are we listening to shit made up again?

I find it unlikely we will parting with 2 million of our British pounds this summer on a single player.

 

[Ranmoorblade]

Are we listening to shit made up again?

I find it unlikely we will parting with 2 million of our British pounds this summer on a single player.

We did it in league 1 on Brayford so why not?

 

[Grizzly blade]

We did it in league 1 on Brayford so why not?

Because we haven't a pot according to many of the happy cracks!

But in all honesty, times have changed I believe and for this season I would be surprised if we did. I expect similar signings to the ones already here and a policy similar to Barnsley.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Strappon reckons last bid declined was £1.5 million.

When has he ever been right?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Totally agree, actually in possession we will be a high level team and impressive even by Championship standards.
Last season all our tactics seemed to be centred about "what we would do", instead of focussing on "stopping the opposition"

I'm heard many of the ex Forest players talking about the brilliant Brian Clough.
When asked about Cloughs tactics, they all said he never bothered much with tactics, he rarely worried about the opposition or rarely gave any credit to the opposition. It was all about "how Forest perform" and a "let them worry about us" attitude.

It will be so interesting next season to see if Wilders continues with his open attacking tactics.
If we get thumped 3 or 4-0 in early matches it could all go pear shape.
Wilder might get loads of stick for being tactically naive and then he might turn into a Nigel Clough, where we are very solid but more cautious/ negative and tactical trying to negate the strengths of the opposition.

Remember Wilder has virtually no management experience playing against really talented sides who can cause problems.

So playing against quality sides next season is a new experience for Wilder. How will he react and set the team up?
I'm hoping he sticks to his guns and remains positive focussing on offence. Don't think Wilder has ever approached a game where he parks the bus hoping to keep it 0-0 at halftime. It will be really interesting, can't wait.

I'm with you most of the way. But I disagree when you say "Wilder has almost no experience of playing against talented teams". Because this is all relative to the level you are competing at.

If you are in the Conference a talented team is the best competitor at your level, not Real Madrid.

Wilder has loads of experience of putting out a team who can compete at the level they are at. From Bradway through to Sheff United. That's what he does well.

 

[WORKSOPBLADE]

We did it in league 1 on Brayford so why not?

Cos Clough ain't here anymore!

 

[Bladeinleeds]

genuinely don't know much about the player - but if the bidding is getting to the levels suggested (which I am doubtful about) £1.5m plus to me that suggests we must be pretty confident in his abilities.

It's not the sort of money we could just chuck away on a gamble. It also suggests we'd expect him to be a mainstay in the side.

If we have that kind of cash available I wouldn't be too gutted if we missed out cos I'm sure there would be other targets we could look at.