Incoming? Darragh Lenihan

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dannysufc_ said:
Why do you think an unwanted Richard Stearman would be our main target over an other teams star man? Stearman is a confidence player and that will have done him the world of good but it doesn't mean it's true.

If we were to say 'yeah nice to get him but Leonard is our number one target' his price would shoot up even more.

Switch on.
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Stearman is a captain and leader. Surprised he's mentioned as a confidence player
 
DronnieBlade said:
Coutts and Fleck ARE going to run it like last year. They will prove to be amongst the best CM pairs in the division.
It might, at times, mean sacrificing a player in the Duffy type role for a genuine DM to bolster the middle of the park.
But I'll stand by my ascertion as regards our 2 middy maestros.

UTB
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I certainly hope you're right
 
dannysufc_ said:
Haven't you seen the constant interviews from their side?
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How constant is constant?

They must be desperate to sell if they keep talking about because nobody at United is talking about about it
 
Blackburn seem to have adopted a policy similar to what we did and that of Coventry. They went for boom, it failed and now they have to look forward to bust. Which means running as close as they can to the revenue brought in.

Only way to do that is to clear out and start again. Sell off the value and use the funds to rebuild completely and at the same time drastically reduce costs.
I dread to think what their wage bill will be going into a season in league one.

However, even then you need a manager and to be fair I reckon Mowbray ain't that bad.
 
Chali 2na said:
Define: "Run it"
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OK. I'll take a crack.

More often than not, they will be superior to their direct opponents in the middle of the park.

Tactically. Technically.

My one and only worry would be that physically, in a real rough and tumble battle, they might be found wanting.

Which is where brick shithouse DM comes in !

UTB
 
DronnieBlade said:
OK. I'll take a crack.

More often than not, they will be superior to their direct opponents in the middle of the park.

Tactically. Technically.

My one and only worry would be that physically, in a real rough and tumble battle, they might be found wanting.

Which is where brick shithouse DM comes in !

UTB
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Fair enough.

I certainly agree in Fleck's case, I have no doubt that he'll have no problem adapting.
I'm
My reservations are with Coutts. I think he's a superb footballer, and he's arguably one of our most gifted players, my worry is that his role is better suited to a side with time on the ball dominating possesion.
I hope I'm wrong and I'm by no means writing him off: I think he's a fantastic player.

I think though, like you say, a defensive midfielder will allow both players the best possible chance to flourish.
 
Chali 2na said:
Fair enough.

I certainly agree in Fleck's case, I have no doubt that he'll have no problem adapting.
I'm
My reservations are with Coutts. I think he's a superb footballer, and he's arguably one of our most gifted players, my worry is that his role is better suited to a side with time on the ball dominating possesion.
I hope I'm wrong and I'm by no means writing him off: I think he's a fantastic player.

I think though, like you say, a defensive midfielder will allow both players the best possible chance to flourish.
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Coutts has an uncanny knack of finding space wherever it may be found across the middle of the park.

Left.
Right.
Central.

He also often drops deeper to receive the ball and normally uses it well.

If he manages to keep in good shape, as he was last year (so no reason to suspect he won't), I'll go as far as to say he might be a sensation at this level.

And with his fellow Scot along side him, I'm confident last seasons dominating performances can continue. Scottish caps await.

They are both that good. IMHO.

UTB
 
DronnieBlade said:
OK. I'll take a crack.

More often than not, they will be superior to their direct opponents in the middle of the park.

Tactically. Technically.

My one and only worry would be that physically, in a real rough and tumble battle, they might be found wanting.

Which is where brick shithouse DM comes in !

UTB
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Aka....Basham
 
While someone above has just pointed out how Coutts always finds space I just wanted another shout out to Fleck.
If any young footballer watches anyone in th lower leagues to see how the game should be played he's my pick.
He's constantly looking around, he knows where his team mates are, where the opposition players are and where the space is. He moves in angles, always making for an easy pass or an outlet for his team.
He's so hard to mark, never stands and admires a pass, mixes up his pace to keep the other team guessing, has little bursts of energy and then on other occasions simply keeps the ball. Like Duffy he never hides, always shows for the ball and is always thinking 2 or 3 passes ahead.
 
From the pig end said:
While someone above has just pointed out how Coutts always finds space I just wanted another shout out to Fleck.
If any young footballer watches anyone in th lower leagues to see how the game should be played he's my pick.
He's constantly looking around, he knows where his team mates are, where the opposition players are and where the space is. He moves in angles, always making for an easy pass or an outlet for his team.
He's so hard to mark, never stands and admires a pass, mixes up his pace to keep the other team guessing, has little bursts of energy and then on other occasions simply keeps the ball. Like Duffy he never hides, always shows for the ball and is always thinking 2 or 3 passes ahead.
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Bravo...he gets about in a box-box kind of way some might say!!
 
DronnieBlade said:
He also often drops deeper to receive the ball and normally uses it well.
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I've been thinking about this when people have been saying we're crying out for a defensive midfielder... (not you I'm just using your point!).

I'm not sure it's a defensive midfielder we need more someone with an engine and 'shithouse' quality.

I think back to last year and Coutts spent 50% of his time on the pitch collecting the ball deep more or less alongside our centre backs... I don't think we need another man in there more someone that can mix it up a little... but play. Please let him be able to play... otherwise it sounds like I'm asking us to find Monty mk2.
 
DronnieBlade said:
Coutts has an uncanny knack of finding space wherever it may be found across the middle of the park.

Left.
Right.
Central.

He also often drops deeper to receive the ball and normally uses it well.

If he manages to keep in good shape, as he was last year (so no reason to suspect he won't), I'll go as far as to say he might be a sensation at this level.

And with his fellow Scot along side him, I'm confident last seasons dominating performances can continue. Scottish caps await.

They are both that good. IMHO.

UTB
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They certainly are. They'll take the Championship in their stylish strides.

For those who haven't heard, Tufty hates talk of AMs and DMs and HMs and SMs. It does his 'ead in. He likes midfielders. The name needs no further refinement, he says.
 

B14Nco said:
I've been thinking about this when people have been saying we're crying out for a defensive midfielder... (not you I'm just using your point!).

I'm not sure it's a defensive midfielder we need more someone with an engine and 'shithouse' quality.

I think back to last year and Coutts spent 50% of his time on the pitch collecting the ball deep more or less alongside our centre backs... I don't think we need another man in there more someone that can mix it up a little... but play. Please let him be able to play... otherwise it sounds like I'm asking us to find Monty mk2.
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There is dropping deep to collect the ball and then there is breaking up play, Fleck does the latter to some extent as does Coutts to give them their dues but neither are an out and out ball winning midfielder IMO, I would be prepared to go on record as saying JOC would be the best DM currently at the club
 
Blade58 said:
Hope so, then we can move on to the next target

Let's get this show on the road :)
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I'd be surprised if we aren't equally close on another one or two and maybe even see another one before him.

Unless you mean in 75+page thread forum land :)
 
mancunianblade said:
There is dropping deep to collect the ball and then there is breaking up play, Fleck does the latter to some extent as does Coutts to give them their dues but neither are an out and out ball winning midfielder IMO, I would be prepared to go on record as saying JOC would be the best DM currently at the club
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Cant agree with that.

The game has evolved, the ball is rarely bouncing about the middle of the park out of control, or being lumped into that area needing a big dominant figure to win it.
The ball is generally won there by forcing errors or misplaced passes or poor touches, and having a player there to pounce on that.

So it's more to do with making sure your midfield is never caught out of position, so that when the oppos have the ball we have players in the right place to close them down and be behind the ball.
CDM's in the like of the Makelele, and now Kante for example are played in systems where they just sit. They patrol in front of the centre halves allowing others to push on and then provide cover if they lose the ball. They also to some degree shield the back two and prevent balls played into the feet of strikers.
Kante is supremely fit and runs all day, he's all action but also superb at reading play and where the ball is going.He is almost always in the right place at the right time, and therfore in a position to challenge for the ball and close players down, often doing it so well that he's on them before they receive the pass.

Now it's open to question whether we need such a player in our current system (not saying we wouldn't want Kante by the way, I think he would be excellent as an all out midfielder not just sitting in the middle, as he proved for Chelsea IMHO)
The point I'm trying to make here, is that with the system Wilder favours he needs players in midfield who are fit and prepared to work hard without the ball so that they restrict the time of opponents and force errors. Then with the ball are good enough to receive the ball under pressure and have the vision and ability to spread the play and pass it quickly and accurately.
The ability to keep the ball is crucial, as it is this which allows us to make do without needing a CDM, both Coutts and Fleck can be relied upon to receive the ball in a tight space and retain possession. It's rarely lost through a bad touch or poor pass.

What we saw last season will happen again, but the only difference is that the errors from opponents will be less. So we will just have to be patient and work even harder.
In short...no CDM is required. Just cover for the two we have, whom I find myself saying again, will be and are excellent players who will show they are up there amongst the best in the championship.
If we were looking to buy 2 players with that ability to play as they do we would be needing several millions to fund it, we simply couldn't afford it.
 
mancunianblade said:
There is dropping deep to collect the ball and then there is breaking up play, Fleck does the latter to some extent as does Coutts to give them their dues but neither are an out and out ball winning midfielder IMO, I would be prepared to go on record as saying JOC would be the best DM currently at the club
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Yeah sorry that's my point (and I think we're talking about the same thing) a ball winning midfielder is what we want not necessarily a defensive midfielder... maybe it's because I was part of the original champo generation but to me a defensive midfielder rarely ventures past the half way line... that all said I think they class Kante as a defensive midfielder and he's EVERYWHERE. Kante. We want Kante. Or a cheap version of him from league 1/2.
 
I don't necessarily go in for the 'defensive midfield' type. We just need a midfielder who can do a bit of everything but is physical, athletic, and can get is foot in when it is required. We already have talented lads who can play quality football in Coutts and Fleck, and they will excel next season where they have more time.on the ball. In fact, I think it will suit both players more. I think Utd will surprise many next season including a lot of their own fans. They will go really well I think.
 
Coutts Is premier league when he's on the ball, but when the opposition have it, he's a liability. Be interesting how we set up next season against the better teams.
 
Norderner said:
Coutts Is premier league when he's on the ball, but when the opposition have it, he's a liability. Be interesting how we set up next season against the better teams.
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Not sure he is a liability. I seem to recall that some stat was posted where Coutts made more interception tackles than anyone else in the midfield. I could be mistaken with that but in the games I went to I certainly witnessed Coutts put his foot in regularly to win the ball and invariably come out with it.
 

Don't know what happened to the rest of my message above so I will try again!

On the ball Coutts is excellent but off the ball he can be very poor.

On at least 3 occasions last season we conceded goals when people went past Coutts without challenge, exposing our back 3 to somebody coming at them at pace. He also picked up yellows when his slow reaction left him with no choice other than to pull back or bring down his opponent. His tracking back with a runner at set pieces also didn't happen on many occasions.

With the increased quality and pace of the opposition this year this could be an even greater issue.

When Coutts goes forward Fleck covers for him fine, but when Fleck goes forward Coutts often leaves the back 3 exposed.

This is why I feel that we need the option of a sit-in DM or another aggressive covering CM alongside Fleck. All 3 could play with Fleck and Coutts ahead of the DM or just Fleck and the DM.

I think Leonard could do these roles, but equally Lenihan is a bit like Bash and can play midfield or defence. So if we got Lenihan we would have the option of him or Bash in the back 3, with the other providing the option of a more solid CM, effectively covering 2 signing targets with just one signing.

UTB
 
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