Coutts,freeman

[Smirth]

That kind of knee jerk action is exactly what has kept us in the shit for six seasons.

Okay, let's just lose them for free to a higher placed team than us next summer.

This is hardly like the ridiculously long contracts handed out to Collins, Cresswell and Doyle.

 

[Pinchy]

We'll be signing two centre-backs. Tufty is well aware of what he needs and knows when the window closes.

Relax.

 

[snootyfenooty]

So, in that seem era I refer to, we signed some other lower league players. Anthony Currie (an 18 year old unknown prospect - also from 3rd division Watford - for peanuts -£28k - Jesus! never heard of him - what good could a young kid like that, who had hardly made their first team, be to us?), Bill Dearden (a right winger, playing for 4th division Chester City - signed for £10k - why on earth did we need a right winger when we'd got Woodward eh? stupid decision that wasn't it?), Stewart Scullion (another 3rd division player, also from Watford again, bought for £25k, how on earth was he going to cut it in the First division?).

All true but you're missing out the architect behind all this - John Harris. Wilder's got some way to go yet before you can make such a comparison.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Cerberus I don't disagree with what you are saying but I do think we are lacking a couple of quality, experienced older heads at the back. Despite our great season last year I think we got taken apart a bit too easily nearer the end of the season and I'm not sure our 'we'll score more goals than you' approach will be as successful in the championship.

Now I could easily be wrong and Wright could be the man but according to todays Star we are back in for EEL. If he comes it's likely we'll have JOC and EEL, Wright and Basham as our centre backs and I feel that's not enough. JOC and Wright have never played at that level and a mid ranking championship team don't think EEL is good enough to do so and it's not Bashams natural position.

Much as I dislike Bolton I think their horrible centre halves will do ok in the Championship and Id like to see a better version of Wheater signed to play alongside JOC with Wright, Basham and maybe EEL as back up.Problem is that kind of player is going to cost good money and I feel that's where we really need to spend it.

Yes well I don't disagree with that either. To be honest, my heart sank when I heard we were going back in for EEL. He clearly wasn't top of Wilder's list because we tried to get that other guy from Norwich in preference - who has ended up going to Wolves instead and possibly freeing up a move for EEL. I said it early on last season, when most fans on here were going crackers about EEL and making him their latest hero, that I wasn't convinced. He's slow and gets out of position very easily. He'll be an absolute bloody liability in the Championship and I really hope Wilder has seen that, just from his inept defending in League 1. I cannot understand why we would be in for him?

The analogy you make with Bolton is a good one. I agree that some nasty person with bags of experience like Wheater would be far preferable.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

All true but you're missing out the architect behind all this - John Harris. Wilder's got some way to go yet before you can make such a comparison.

I wasn't making any comparison between John Harris and Chris Wilder. I was just saying that you can't judge a player just because he's from a lower league team - and that some will be good, with great potential to play at the highest level - and some won't.

The only comparison I can make on Harris v Wilder so far is that the two personalities couldn't be much more different. One a quiet, pious, man - the other "one o' the lads". Which is better I really don't know - but so far both have been very good.

Where does this myth that Freeman won't cut it come from? The lad scored 10 times last season. Any outside observer would rightly say he will make the step up.

Even when Adkins binned him off he had been our best player in that season until that point.

I think we are referring to concerns about his ability to defend, not his attacking. If he's played more as an out and out defender, which he could well be if we revert to a back 4 and employ a winger, or wingers, then I think he'll not quite be up to the job. And I suspect Wilder thinks the same, which is why we've gone out and bought 2 full backs - did you not notice that?

 

[snootyfenooty]

I wasn't making any comparison between John Harris and Chris Wilder. I was just saying that you can't judge a player just because he's from a lower league team - and that some will be good, with great potential to play at the highest level - and some won't.

I know you wasn't but I was. Spotting and buying talent from the lower divisions means nothing unless you've got a genius like John Harris to turn them into premiership quality players. I was just making the point that Harris proved that he could and Wilder has yet to prove that he can.

 

[Bladey McBladeface]

I wasn't making any comparison between John Harris and Chris Wilder. I was just saying that you can't judge a player just because he's from a lower league team - and that some will be good, with great potential to play at the highest level - and some won't.

The only comparison I can make on Harris v Wilder so far is that the two personalities couldn't be much more different. One a quiet, pious, man - the other "one o' the lads". Which is better I really don't know - but so far both have been very good.



I think we are referring to concerns about his ability to defend, not his attacking. If he's played more as an out and out defender, which he could well be if we revert to a back 4 and employ a winger, or wingers, then I think he'll not quite be up to the job. And I suspect Wilder thinks the same, which is why we've gone out and bought 2 full backs - did you not notice that?

The players we have brought in are both attacking full-backs which very much suggests to me that he is going to still deploy 3-5-2. I do think that if we play 4 at the back Freeman will find it harder, but I've no reason to suspect that Baldock would be any better in a back 4.

 

[wizadry]

I would give them both another year, no more.

We'll have to agree to disagree then mate because I would give them two years at a minimum due to the fact they'll not lose any value and they'll have many suitors meaning we won't lose any money if indeed they were to move on.

 

[Barney]

We'll have to agree to disagree then mate because I would give them two years at a minimum due to the fact they'll not lose any value and they'll have many suitors meaning we won't lose any money if indeed they were to move on.

What if they aren't able to make the step up and they're on the books for 3 years. Hopefully not the case but you need to have a plan in place for these things.

The mess under Clough was instigated by happily dishing out 3 and 4 year contracts, let's not forget that.

 

[Dnblade]

Freeman has come in for some criticism in the past for his defensive ability,not always justified for me,although he was guilty of allowing crosses to come in by not getting close enough at times...Last season though,we often switched to 4-4-2 during games when the 3 at the back wasn't quite working,and his defending was very good,and he still got forward from Full Back..deserves his chance in the Championship for me....Coutts also,class.

 

[wizadry]

What if they aren't able to make the step up and they're on the books for 3 years. Hopefully not the case but you need to have a plan in place for these things.

The mess under Clough was instigated by happily dishing out 3 and 4 year contracts, let's not forget that.

And that's why I said two years not three, it makes all the difference to the planning procedure.

 

[Barney]

And that's why I said two years not three, it makes all the difference to the planning procedure.

Oreyt smart arse.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I'll say in now.

Based on last season, keeping match fit, and having his Scottish mucker next door to him, Coutts will prove to be one of the best, if not THE best CM in the division.

UTB

 

[Ricky]

This is good news, but no mention of Coutts or Freeman.



An article in today's Star also mentions contract offers to Basham, Coutts and Sharp, but not Freeman.

 

[snootyfenooty]

This is good news, but no mention of Coutts or Freeman.



An article in today's Star also mentions contract offers to Basham, Coutts and Sharp, but not Freeman.

What's not to like about that news. Best manager for years and two best players last season. Simple case of sorting out the priorities, the rest can follow.

 

[blade too long]

Im sure southampton fans had many questions about some of their players having come up as 3rd from league one but quite a few made the jump
Like a lot of our squad they weren't tried and tested championship players, but had points to prove
Im pretty certain players like Freeman can adjust , having seen some of the play in the championship

 

[Woodwardfan]

I know you wasn't but I was. Spotting and buying talent from the lower divisions means nothing unless you've got a genius like John Harris to turn them into premiership quality players. I was just making the point that Harris proved that he could and Wilder has yet to prove that he can.

Maybe it was actually Archie Clarke who spotted them in the old days but point still stands.

Wilder has more experience of L2 than maybe any other manager, I'm guessing at over 500 games as a manager with L2 squads, competing with other teams is the sharpest way to judge opposition players.Then there is Mitchell with all those years scouting at L1 and L2 , as well as below and above Two men plus Knill who all know football and know a player when they see one; easily capable of judging whether they can go on to play at a higher level. Wilder says he wants players with hunger and a bit to prove. With players like that there a few egos, no complacency and adrenalin pumping through the veins.

When we have played clubs from higher leagues in recent years, when we have been up for a battle and strong pressing tactics all over the pitch, the oppositions have been all over the place- Southampton, Charlton, Villa, QPR, Hull for 45 minutes.

With a strong squad and plenty of cover, we can be at it week in week out and just watch some of these so called 'higher level players' whinging and whining to referees and to each other. Can't wait.

 

[Slim Man]

What's not to like about that news. Best manager for years and two best players last season. Simple case of sorting out the priorities, the rest can follow.

Fleck was our best player last season. As good as Basham was as well he's only AS important as Coutts and Freeman for me based on last season.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Fleck was our best player last season. As good as Basham was as well he's only AS important as Coutts and Freeman for me based on last season.

What's Fleck got to do with priorities in getting new contracts signed. He's only 1 year into a 3 year contract, plus any options if there are any. As for your other point, Basham's role is going to be pivotal next year as our success (or otherwise) is going to depend upon how our defence holds up.

 

[Pinchy]

Fleck was our best player last season. As good as Basham was as well he's only AS important as Coutts and Freeman for me based on last season.

Couttsy is every bit as good and certainly as vital as Fleck. As a pair they will be as good as most in the Championship and better than plenty, maybe even the titans that are Bristol City.

 

[Pinchy]

Maybe it was actually Archie Clarke who spotted them in the old days but point still stands.

Wilder has more experience of L2 than maybe any other manager, I'm guessing at over 500 games as a manager with L2 squads, competing with other teams is the sharpest way to judge opposition players.Then there is Mitchell with all those years scouting at L1 and L2 , as well as below and above Two men plus Knill who all know football and know a player when they see one; easily capable of judging whether they can go on to play at a higher level. Wilder says he wants players with hunger and a bit to prove. With players like that there a few egos, no complacency and adrenalin pumping through the veins.

When we have played clubs from higher leagues in recent years, when we have been up for a battle and strong pressing tactics all over the pitch, the oppositions have been all over the place- Southampton, Charlton, Villa, QPR, Hull for 45 minutes.

With a strong squad and plenty of cover, we can be at it week in week out and just watch some of these so called 'higher level players' whinging and whining to referees and to each other. Can't wait.

Maybe we could occasionally outplay them with superior football?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Maybe we could occasionally outplay them with superior football?[/QUO

It all gets easier when you outwork them with 10 outfield players putting more in than theirs. In Wilder's words " every day in training as well as match days".

More than "occasionally" in the last half hour of games I hope.

 

[wizadry]

What's not to like about that news. Best manager for years and two best players last season. Simple case of sorting out the priorities, the rest can follow.

Agree there's nothing to not like about it but as good and as consistent that Basham was, in the second half of the season especially, he isn't no where near our best player, although he can certainly sup!

He's such a good bloke though that he'd probably admit all this himself.

 

[Slim Man]

What's Fleck got to do with priorities in getting new contracts signed. He's only 1 year into a 3 year contract, plus any options if there are any. As for your other point, Basham's role is going to be pivotal next year as our success (or otherwise) is going to depend upon how our defence holds up.

You said Basham was our best player last season...

 

[snootyfenooty]

You said Basham was our best player last season...

Sharp and Basham actually. Effective might have been a better choice of word, but the issue we were discussing was contracts so you're going off on a tangent anyway.

 

[Slim Man]

Sharp and Basham actually. Effective might have been a better choice of word, but the issue we were discussing was contracts so you're going off on a tangent anyway.

Well no I'm not, you were by saying Basham was our best player last season

 

[BushBlade]

Well no I'm not, you were by saying Basham was our best player last season

It's hard to split them. They were all very good last season. You could pick any bar Lafferty or the squad players and make a good case for them being player of the season.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

As for your other point, Basham's role is going to be pivotal next year as our success (or otherwise) is going to depend upon how our defence holds up.

Exactly........and we want to add EELto it? EEL next season will be as bad as Wilson last season.

UTB

 

[snootyfenooty]

Well no I'm not, you were by saying Basham was our best player last season

What if I was. Not allowed our own opinions any more are we?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Freeman has come in for some criticism in the past for his defensive ability,not always justified for me,although he was guilty of allowing crosses to come in by not getting close enough at times...Last season though,we often switched to 4-4-2 during games when the 3 at the back wasn't quite working,and his defending was very good,and he still got forward from Full Back..deserves his chance in the Championship for me....Coutts also,class.

I thought Brayford was also equally suspect when defending, for what it's worth. Great going forward, but let players get around him too easily at times.