Coutts best passer in league

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I was a bit unfair on Pinchy this time methinks.
 
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Jeebus, some of these posts are annoying and pointless.
 
Tyler Durden said:
Same sentiment though, people all too willing to shit all over his contributions and negate his impact.

Anyway, I've said my piece on that subject. I've voluntarily taken myself out of this thread so as not to interfere with the Paul Coutts bukkake-fest. I'm nice like that.
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I disagree. I don’t think anyone here wants to “shit all over his contribution” at all. And if that is the case with one or two, I don’t think it has anything to do with him being from Sheffield and probably everything to do with personal preference in terms of style of football.

My take is that Billly is a very good striker IF you play to his strengths. We’ve done that lately and he’s come up trumps. We’ve seen during other spells that he’s also not the easiest to accommodate if you want to play different styles (due to aforementioned lack of height and pace). In certain systems and ways of playing the game, having at least one of height/ pace is almost essential so for anyone not keen on having him in the team, I think that is the sole reason for it. My take is that I think he’s good enough at other things that it more than makes up for the absence of those particular attributes and (especially in League 1 but still to some extent in the championship) that his comparative quality is so high, that it’s worth playing to his strengths to get the best out of him. Fortunately, Wilder has found a system that does that for Sharp, Duffy, Coutts, Freeman, Basham, O Connell, Wright etc. who are all performing at a higher standard than they have in previous formations and teams as a result.


You seem to have a perception that Billy isn’t popular on here. I can assure you he is. Perhaps you think he should be even more popular which is your prerogative but the vast majority, including myself, are full of appreciation for what he bring to our team.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Lundstram is a young lad. He also looks for a purposeful long ball. It often fails but it moves the game along. FGS where would Currie and United have been without his long balls. Currie playing deep midfield playing 15 yard passe mostly sideways and backwards - doesn't bear thinking about = maybe 98% accuracy and only that because he would have fallen asleep, otherwise 100%.
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I’m not writing the kid off, just offering an honest assessment of what I’ve seen from him so far. Mobility looks a problem. The long balls can be great if they come off but your percentages have to be good. His haven’t been particularly good so far. But as you say, he’s young and settling in at the club so let’s hope he settles down and improves. I’ve actually been impressed with him when I’ve seen him play for other clubs so hope so see that coming through here.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
And the run to The FA Cup Semi Final and good, scoring performance at Wembley
And the run to The League Cup Semi Final and good performance over two legs v Spurs
Oh and that run of 8 wins on the trot
And saving us from certain relegation under Weir

But other than that...barely a positive to be found
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All true, but I think the point was what he’d left behind rather than the times he gave us while he was here. Coutts, Basham, Freeman, Murphy and Adams. The latter 2 sold on for significant profit with the first 3 still integral parts of the team. Of course the offset is the money squandered on the likes of Higdon, Wallace (X2), Alcock, McEveley, McNulty, Butler etc. Some very good coupled with some very bad.
 
Grizzly blade said:
Perhaps Lundstram’s slow start and minimal impact is down to him being on the field at the same time as Coutts?
I’m hoping, his ideal game is the game Coutts plays, hence why he’s not been that good yet. If he comes in for Coutts then hopefully that roll will suit him more and see him at his best.
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When we signed him, from what I’d seen of him, I thought he’d be a good understudy for Coutts so I hope you’re right.
 
1danewhitehouse said:
I’m not writing the kid off, just offering an honest assessment of what I’ve seen from him so far. Mobility looks a problem. The long balls can be great if they come off but your percentages have to be good. His haven’t been particularly good so far. But as you say, he’s young and settling in at the club so let’s hope he settles down and improves. I’ve actually been impressed with him when I’ve seen him play for other clubs so hope so see that coming through here.
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Knill in particular was very excited in interview when we signed Lundstram as though he was the top target last summer.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Tony Currie is a proper footballer but he's 67 years old.

Everybody and their grandfathers said Coutts had skills and said so without making a case that he deserved to be a first team regular.
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I'm not sure what your point is?

I thought the question had been about whether sitwell had been complimentary about Coutts pre-Wilder? I thought that thread resolved that question.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Knill in particular was very excited in interview when we signed Lundstram as though he was the top target last summer.
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As was I. Just been a bit underwhelmed by what I've seen from him so far. I hope he proves to be as good as I thought he was when we signed him rather than what I've seen so far in a blades shirt.
 
We all know Coutts had the talent in there. He always seemed blighted by lack of fitness/injuries and made him seem a bit nesh!

Since early last season though he's looked much fitter and stronger, he hardly missed a minute last season did he? Got to give huge credit to Wilder and his team for that.

Just think, if we hadn't been a shambles first half at home to Southend last year would we have even seen Coutts? He came on at half time in that game and looked fantastic just like the Coutts we see now. (Even though I remember CW using the words in his interview after "it's easy to come on and look good at 3 nil down with no pressure" :))

Keep up the good work COUUUUUUTTTTTSSS
 
Woodwardfan said:
Tony Currie is a proper footballer but he's 67 years old.

Everybody and their grandfathers said Coutts had skills and said so without making a case that he deserved to be a first team regular.
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I'm not sure they did. I would say 60% (at least) said he was shite and he would never recover from his injury sustained at Derby. Many said it was a ridiculous Clough decision - "signing players he's previously managed".
 
NuddysGloves said:
I'm confused by all the people saying Coutts can only make 5 yard passes to the man stood next to him? Am I the only person that sees Coutts quickly put us into a crossing position with a long diagonal ball out to Stevens/Lafferty or Baldock/Freeman?

Everybody goes on about how great it is that Bash or O'Connell bomb forward from the CB positions and overlap their wing back, but this wouldn't be so effective if Coutts wasn't there covering for them! If our midfield consists of Fleck, Coutts and Duffy then we shouldn't be looking at all 3 of them to burst forward into the final third because we'd be destroyed on the counter every 5 minutes!

Coutts is our best player and could very easily handle Premiership football IMO. We'll find out next year........ :p
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It confuses me as well when people talk about 5 yard passes. People need their eyes testing if they think footballers make loads of passes of this distance. The definition of a short pass is any pass up to 35 yards. For what it’s worth 7% of Couttsy’s passes are long passes so he does sparingly use that if it’s on. I’ve no idea what the average length of his passes are but it’s not 5 yards, we’d never get anywhere with that.

His pass completion rate is 86% which is excellent. Not the highest Blade this season, Jake Wright has 89% but I think we appreciate that is initial set up from a defensive position.

Couttsy’s other great strength is possession. Football is about passing and moving as you approach the final third and in the final third as you manoeuvre for chances. He receives and holds and moves with the ball superbly before he makes the pass.

If you then put this in context of United’s strengths so far this season which are attacking down both flanks, retaining possession in the opposing half and creating chances, Coutts is integral to this set up.

Stevens has the most League assists with 4.

I’d like Coutts to have more shots and assists but he is our key man for set up and playing to our strengths.
 



UnitedBlade said:
It confuses me as well when people talk about 5 yard passes. People need their eyes testing if they think footballers make loads of passes of this distance. The definition of a short pass is any pass up to 35 yards. For what it’s worth 7% of Couttsy’s passes are long passes so he does sparingly use that if it’s on. I’ve no idea what the average length of his passes are but it’s not 5 yards, we’d never get anywhere with that.

His pass completion rate is 86% which is excellent. Not the highest Blade this season, Jake Wright has 89% but I think we appreciate that is initial set up from a defensive position.

Couttsy’s other great strength is possession. Football is about passing and moving as you approach the final third and in the final third as you manoeuvre for chances. He receives and holds and moves with the ball superbly before he makes the pass.

If you then put this in context of United’s strengths so far this season which are attacking down both flanks, retaining possession in the opposing half and creating chances, Coutts is integral to this set up.

Stevens has the most League assists with 4.

I’d like Coutts to have more shots and assists but he is our key man for set up and playing to our strengths.
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I've been thinking a lot about CMs shooting. I haven't done any numerical assessment but I reckon a lot of shots from outside the box lead to a loss of possession, ie more go out for goal kicks or get saved than result in goals or corners. Given a lot of coaching seems to be based on stats, are CMs encouraged these days to hit long shots or are they encouraged to retain possession and look for openings?
 
1danewhitehouse said:
I'm not sure what your point is?

I thought the question had been about whether sitwell had been complimentary about Coutts pre-Wilder? I thought that thread resolved that question.
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Not just 'complimentary' in a passing comment as 'one swallow doesn't make a summer'.

Many said Coutts had skill pre-Wilder but most thought he was never 90 minute match fit or even ever could be and hardly any suggested he be considered a regular first teamer. As it turned out Coutts was fitter than we thought and he was demotivated not incapacitated. When Coutts was transfer-listed there was hardly a murmer on here.

As far as I know Sitwell didn't make a case for him being a serious contender for the first team as maybe '10% of fans' did, probably much less. As for Tony Currie, I commented is he is a 'proper footballer' , no doubt about it, but that's not to say he should play in our first team anytime soon.
 
Tyler Durden said:
Most of us in the stands do appreciate him. It's just this forum that largely doesn't (with a few exceptions).
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A few weeks ago weren’t you complaining that every thread turns into a pro Coutts discussion and yet here you are turning a Coutts thread into a pro Billy discussion , double standards . For the record I had doubts about Billy under Adkins but I am happy to say I love Billy now....maybe almost as much as you.
 
HermitageBlade said:
A few weeks ago weren’t you complaining that every thread turns into a pro Coutts discussion and yet here you are turning a Coutts thread into a pro Billy discussion , double standards . For the record I had doubts about Billy under Adkins but I am happy to say I love Billy now....maybe almost as much as you.
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No I was just contrasting the fawning over one player with the shitty and at best lukewarm treatment of another.

And having said my piece I've tried to exit the discussion and allow the rest of you to get on with liking Paul Coutts. Rather gentlemanly conduct on my part I'd say.
 
I thought Coutts (and/or Fleck) was unlucky not to be in the Scotland squad but fair play to Bannan last night, played well.
Bit worried he might be a major asset for the porkers this season.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Not just 'complimentary' in a passing comment as 'one swallow doesn't make a summer'.

Many said Coutts had skill pre-Wilder but most thought he was never 90 minute match fit or even ever could be and hardly any suggested he be considered a regular first teamer. As it turned out Coutts was fitter than we thought and he was demotivated not incapacitated. When Coutts was transfer-listed there was hardly a murmer on here.

As far as I know Sitwell didn't make a case for him being a serious contender for the first team as maybe '10% of fans' did, probably much less. As for Tony Currie, I commented is he is a 'proper footballer' , no doubt about it, but that's not to say he should play in our first team anytime soon.
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BushBlade said:
I've been thinking a lot about CMs shooting. I haven't done any numerical assessment but I reckon a lot of shots from outside the box lead to a loss of possession, ie more go out for goal kicks or get saved than result in goals or corners. Given a lot of coaching seems to be based on stats, are CMs encouraged these days to hit long shots or are they encouraged to retain possession and look for openings?
Click to expand...
Fair point, probably the latter, retain possession and look for openings, that is certainly Couttsy’s instinct.

Of course a lot of goals come from free kicks etc (I think it’s about a third? It might also include corners). So the area just outside the box (which they call Zone 14) is very important for creating and scoring goals. However, Coutts isn’t the favoured striker of the ball here, it’s Fleck or Duffy.

We’ve scored a few outside the box this season, Billy’s unusual brace against Derby, the famous Fleck goal, Clayton’s second at Sunderland.

Just occasionally I’d like Coutts to have a go, Billy, Clayton or Leon can always knock the rebound in :)
 
1danewhitehouse said:
I'm not sure what your point is?

I thought the question had been about whether sitwell had been complimentary about Coutts pre-Wilder? I thought that thread resolved that question.
Click to expand...

As a supporter of Coutts from when NC first signed him - my recollection was that sitters was one of the few supporters also - or have I got early set dementia?

UTB
 
mattbianco1 said:
I'm not sure they did. I would say 60% (at least) said he was shite and he would never recover from his injury sustained at Derby. Many said it was a ridiculous Clough decision - "signing players he's previously managed".
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I think people said he was shite because of his fitness/ attitude issues. Almost all agreed that he was a technically sound footballer.



But I’m a technically sound footballer amongst my peers. The fact that I’m snail paced and blowing out my arse after 5 minutes means that I’m still comparatively shite overall.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Not just 'complimentary' in a passing comment as 'one swallow doesn't make a summer'.

Many said Coutts had skill pre-Wilder but most thought he was never 90 minute match fit or even ever could be and hardly any suggested he be considered a regular first teamer. As it turned out Coutts was fitter than we thought and he was demotivated not incapacitated. When Coutts was transfer-listed there was hardly a murmer on here.

As far as I know Sitwell didn't make a case for him being a serious contender for the first team as maybe '10% of fans' did, probably much less. As for Tony Currie, I commented is he is a 'proper footballer' , no doubt about it, but that's not to say he should play in our first team anytime soon.
Click to expand...


By Coutts own admission he wasn’t where he should have been fitness wise. He admitted to being regularly fined by Adkins for being overweight. Sitwell still rated him but acknowledged some of the shortcomings (but was far more complimentary than the majority on here about his ability). It would be foolhardy to suggest that he should play even when he wasn’t trying. Sitwell often made the case for a better manager getting more from him in a different set up throughout the summer of 2016 (fighting off all comers- myself included that compared him to Baxter). He has, throughout Coutts’ time here, probably been the most vocal in support of Coutts to the point that I, and many others have accused him of being too forgiving of what Coutts served up pre-Wilder. Fortunately, Wilder wasn’t so forgiving and stuck him on the transfer list, left him out of the squad and made him knuckle down before being involved again. Perhaps just the kick up the arse he needed.
 
Fulwood Blade said:
As a supporter of Coutts from when NC first signed him - my recollection was that sitters was one of the few supporters also - or have I got early set dementia?

UTB
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That’s my recollection too. I think Sitters has possibly been the most vocal support of Coutts.



As I say, I was pretty critical until about a year ago when he showed signs of consistently performing to the best of his abilities.
 
Tyler Durden said:
No I was just contrasting the fawning over one player with the shitty and at best lukewarm treatment of another.

And having said my piece I've tried to exit the discussion and allow the rest of you to get on with liking Paul Coutts. Rather gentlemanly conduct on my part I'd say.
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I don’t think Sharp gets any shitty treatment but every player has their critics especially when the team isn’t playing well. Anyway you’re a saint and I appreciate it now let me get back to the Paul Coutts love in.
 
1danewhitehouse said:
By Coutts own admission he wasn’t where he should have been fitness wise. He admitted to being regularly fined by Adkins for being overweight. Sitwell still rated him but acknowledged some of the shortcomings (but was far more complimentary than the majority on here about his ability). It would be foolhardy to suggest that he should play even when he wasn’t trying. Sitwell often made the case for a better manager getting more from him in a different set up throughout the summer of 2016 (fighting off all comers- myself included that compared him to Baxter). He has, throughout Coutts’ time here, probably been the most vocal in support of Coutts to the point that I, and many others have accused him of being too forgiving of what Coutts served up pre-Wilder. Fortunately, Wilder wasn’t so forgiving and stuck him on the transfer list, left him out of the squad and made him knuckle down before being involved again. Perhaps just the kick up the arse he needed.
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Where do you get that information? I'd love to see it.
 
Im not wanting to get into a willy waving contest, just not really keen on being told Ive jumped on the Coutts bandwagon. we all have our favourites and players we are not keen on , I am guilty of it and have been proved wrong ,Leon Clarke being the latest. Never rated Matt Hill ,George Long and Jose Baxter ,the only one I have doubts about in the present squad is Carruthers but I hope he proves me wrong. I did rate Freeman Coutts and Doyle, even when they had detractors. The one that really gets to me is Stephen Quinn ,I loved him as bloke thought he was a great footballer but tactically useless and he frustrated the ell out of me ,he could have been a regular premiership player but his naivety cost him .
 



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