Council calling McCabe's bluff re Don Valley?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Sheffield suffers from being run by idiots who wouldn't know ambition or forward thinking if it bit them on the arse and from having a populace who are so laid back they're practically horizontal.

There's always lots of mumbling and groaning from Sheffielders about the way the City is run but seemingly very little in the way of direct or meaningful action. I think we should get a bit more French about it, not necessarily burning sheep but doing something to make the council and their cronies sit up and take notice.

Anyone fancy organising it? I can't be arsed...
 



Grecian2000 said:
It's only chance to be viable, as a Cricket venue, would be to REPLACE Headingley as the home of YCCC and that isn't going to happen any time soon.
Click to expand...
Maybe similar was said back in the 60s & early 70s, when some numpty decided to move the home of YCCC. Oh, hang on. ;)
 
cooperblade said:
Sheffield United suffers from being run by idiots who wouldn't know ambition or forward thinking if it bit them on the arse and from having a populace fan base who are so laid back they're practically horizontal.

There's always lots of mumbling and groaning from Sheffielders about the way the City is run but seemingly very little in the way of direct or meaningful action. I think we should get a bit more French about it, not necessarily burning sheep but doing something to make the council and their cronies sit up and take notice.

Anyone fancy organising it? I can't be arsed...
Click to expand...

There, fixed it for you ;)
 
I had to go in front of a council commitee (27 of them ) to put forward a business plan to try and get a grant ,and they were the biggest group of nobheads you could ever meet. One (a shelf stacker at Tescos) even asked me for a job after on the QT. Bunch of unqualified uneducated nosey fuckers on the make , thats a councillor.
 
Amid the Liverpool's better than Sheffield blarney (and vice versa), would it not be more apposite in the context of this forum to question why FOOTBALL is so bad in Sheffield and why it is so much better in Manchester and Liverpool and even Leeds?

I think that the success of the game in these comparable cities reflects the characters and psychologies of them and their citizenry.

I would welcome peoples' opinions on why our football is so bad here on a perennial basis.

I'll start, I have lived for many years in London, Liverpool, Doncaster and I work in Sheffield. I think that the stereotypical Yorkshire penny-pinching tightness is a reality and keeps the Sheffield clubs back but that doesn't explain Leeds's occasional success.
I would say however that the other three major northern cities Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds are all commercial, centres of trade and always were. Sheffield by comparison was just a huge manufacturing 'town' so there was always less money 'here' that is why the shops are poorer and the buildings are smaller........
 
vorpal blade said:
Amid the Liverpool's better than Sheffield blarney (and vice versa), would it not be more apposite in the context of this forum to question why FOOTBALL is so bad in Sheffield and why it is so much better in Manchester and Liverpool and even Leeds?

I think that the success of the game in these comparable cities reflects the characters and psychologies of them and their citizenry.

I would welcome peoples' opinions on why our football is so bad here on a perennial basis.

I'll start, I have lived for many years in London, Liverpool, Doncaster and I work in Sheffield. I think that the stereotypical Yorkshire penny-pinching tightness is a reality and keeps the Sheffield clubs back but that doesn't explain Leeds's occasional success.
I would say however that the other three major northern cities Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds are all commercial, centres of trade and always were. Sheffield by comparison was just a huge manufacturing 'town' so there was always less money 'here' that is why the shops are poorer and the buildings are smaller........
Click to expand...

But in the early years of organised football, Sheffield was far more successful than all of those three cities: by 1907 Sheffield had had three 3 league championships and 4 FA Cups compared to Liverpool's 2 and 1, Manchester's 1 and 1 and Leeds didn't even have a league team.

Why the decline?
 
cooperblade said:
Sheffield suffers from being run by idiots who wouldn't know ambition or forward thinking if it bit them on the arse and from having a populace who are so laid back they're practically horizontal.

There's always lots of mumbling and groaning from Sheffielders about the way the City is run but seemingly very little in the way of direct or meaningful action. I think we should get a bit more French about it, not necessarily burning sheep but doing something to make the council and their cronies sit up and take notice.

Anyone fancy organising it? I can't be arsed...
Click to expand...

Shoes off outside the Town Hall
 
Well in its early years, Football was a game played by Clubs and they were actual clubs, presumably the players were members of these clubs and paid subs. & contributed to the management etc. like many of us do to various societies we may belong to.*
Of course Football started here but then it evolved. Its why England thought they were unbeatable for 50 odd years until Puskas wiped the smug smile off the FA's faces and now we can't win serious fixture for toffee.
Doesn't Sheffield's decline stem from the point at which football became a business, the first transfer fees etc. Business is basically a gambling game, you invest and you either make or lose money and I'm wondering if that is in our owners' blood or not?
There is a lot of very dodgy money in a town like Liverpool, drugs, EU grants, the pools etc. etc. maybe we don't have that sort of cash swilling about?

*(p.s. or am I wrong?)
 
I seem to remember from reading the History of the Blades book that we were the club that started all the dodgy transfers off in the first place by giving good Scottish footballers token jobs in the steel factories so that they were eligible to play for us. This then spread with various amounts of backhanders being given which then turned into transfer fees and players moving to the highest bidder. So we kind of have ourselves to blame
 
vorpal blade said:
Well in its early years, Football was a game played by Clubs and they were actual clubs, presumably the players were members of these clubs and paid subs. & contributed to the management etc. like many of us do to various societies we may belong to.*
Of course Football started here but then it evolved. Its why England thought they were unbeatable for 50 odd years until Puskas wiped the smug smile off the FA's faces and now we can't win serious fixture for toffee.
Doesn't Sheffield's decline stem from the point at which football became a business, the first transfer fees etc. Business is basically a gambling game, you invest and you either make or lose money and I'm wondering if that is in our owners' blood or not?
There is a lot of very dodgy money in a town like Liverpool, drugs, EU grants, the pools etc. etc. maybe we don't have that sort of cash swilling about?

*(p.s. or am I wrong?)
Click to expand...

You're wrong. By the 1890's and 1900's football clubs were commercial entities. Indeed, United were started in 1889 purely with the idea that the people running Bramall Lane could make more money if the ground had its own club.
 
Using it as a place for both cricket and concerts wouldn't be a bad idea.. The U2 concert wasn't bad there, had the right sort of atmosphere and layout seemed to suit is somewhat. I imagine it also brought in a fair bit of money to the surrounding environment. (Darnall needs as much help as possible) and a few more like that would help.
As for cricket it'd be nothing like 'Lords' but with abit of work it could be up there.
 
If the council are grandstanding, then they should be ashamed of themselves, old school politicking.

Didn't I hear recently that they were offering funds to Hammerson to bribe them into starting the Sevenstone scheme? Park Hill??

How in the name of logic can they be stupid enough to think that demolition of Don Valley will save them any money? It will I hope be offered to Hallamshire Harriers or a University or some similar club at a peppercorn rent.

THEY ARE CUTTING THEIR NOSES OFF TO SPITE THE FACE OF YOUR CITY. These Cretins still think they are fighting a party political war. The trouble is they will paint themselves into a corner and when the Government calls their bluff (why should they give a damn?) they will end up actually following through and razing the place, 'to save face' like some honour killing. Only this will be a suicide.
 
I seriously can't believe they are knocking it down, fair enough close it if you cant afford to run it but you might as well leave it standing for now. It's not as if the land will be worth anything, acres of brownfield round there
 



Nothing wrong with their meeting rooms but apparently they still need "Essential maintenance".

Our council is full of crap.
 
Sorry, my dander is obviously well and truly up. The council's stupid policies have spoilt the city, the one most obvious to me is the wreckage of the urban grain through the driving through of ring-roads, consequent cul-de-sacking of lots of other roads with the further consequence that driving round Sheffield is a nightmare for an outsider (e.g. me ). Roads suddenly inexplicably become bus routes and tram-stops, witness the Wicker, the end of Sharrow Vale Road, Infirmary Road etc. etc. and look at the way this pointless strategy has scarred the city.

Hence the unsightly mess around Shalesmoor and up to Hillsborough. The cock-up that was Howard Street.

BTW You do realise the reason why Bramall Lane is blighted for development is because the council has wanted to broaden the road for the last 40+ years? Hence apart from the pubs which have held out, everything opposite the stadium is demolished and functions only as used car lots. Its beautiful.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-20303331
 
vorpal blade said:
If the council are grandstanding, then they should be ashamed of themselves, old school politicking.

Didn't I hear recently that they were offering funds to Hammerson to bribe them into starting the Sevenstone scheme? Park Hill??

How in the name of logic can they be stupid enough to think that demolition of Don Valley will save them any money? It will I hope be offered to Hallamshire Harriers or a University or some similar club at a peppercorn rent.

THEY ARE CUTTING THEIR NOSES OFF TO SPITE THE FACE OF YOUR CITY. These Cretins still think they are fighting a party political war. The trouble is they will paint themselves into a corner and when the Government calls their bluff (why should they give a damn?) they will end up actually following through and razing the place, 'to save face' like some honour killing. Only this will be a suicide.
Click to expand...
Ok what would you cut to keep the 700,000 annual subsidy to DVS?
 
I would look at the books obviously before I did anything, and possibly have an independent audit. I wouldn't take on trust what a local councillor with an axe to grind says.

I would consider spending some of the money that they want to throw straight into the bank accounts of Hammerson's directors on Don Valley Stadium instead.

If the stadium and the jobs that go with it REALLY cannot be sustained by the City, (I suspect the councillors are being theatrical remember), then give or sell or rent the facilities to some institution with more vision who can benefit from it.

I would approach Coe and Ennis and see what these eminent locals have to say about it all and what bright ideas they may have.

Oh and has anyone come up with an estimate of how much it will cost to demolish it all, its hardly a prime development location is it?
 
Exactly, Sheffield City Council will have a professed policy on 'sustainability' won't they?

As for cuts, I would start by cutting back on the sheer numbers of traffic lights at any new junctions and I would stop repairing holes in roads that have speed bumps in them. I would put new street signs (parking zone, speed limits etc.etc.) on existing poles and not clutter up the pavements any more than they already are.

I would sack every member of the Planning Department and leave it up to architects to oversee the development of a more beautiful and functional city.

Above all I would close RBS and Lloyds Banks and try and recoup all the money that was wasted on them. If that money has disappeared, I would limit all salaries at RBS to £20 000 max. I realise this is a bit beyond the good and bad burghers of Sheffield however.
 
I think SCC are a mixed bunch - the urban design/landscape architecture work on the pedestrian link from the train station to the Peace Gardens is absolutely fantastic. You'll not see better in any city outside of London.

I expect the Sevenstones development will be delivered in the next 3-4 years but it will be much smaller scale than originally planned. Not sure how the Moor redevelopment will come on, they may well need to rethink how that will work.

Surprised its been mentioned that Sheffield have made too many changes to the local transport infrastructure. They are light years behind Manchester (rolling out its Metro over the years) and Leeds has invested heavily in roads and will soon press on with the Trolleybus scheme. Certainly the industry perception is that Sheffield has drastically underinvested in transport infrastructure, has failed to expand the Supertram network and is generally a nightmare for road users due to lack of tough decisions being made.
 
PS - if you think a city designed by architects would work, just take a look at Park Hill - a brutalist vision of hell (IMHO) designed by a very highly esteemed (sic) architect!
 
I know Park Hill very well. It was designed by an unknown architect (I can't remember his name so that proves it!). I think the houses that the flats replaced were regarded as hellish possibly by the folk that lived in them but I really don't know? Come on we are trying to save money here.

You are way off the mark about the link to the (childishly designed) Peace Gardens from the Station. Howard Street used to be a Street that formed a direct link in a straight line. Better than that, there was a Church (St. Pauls) at the top and the railway station at the bottom so on arriving in Sheffield you could get your bearings to the very centre of town, see the church tower and head towards it. The inner ring road is it Arundel Gate? smashes straight through it and has changed the levels to the extent that it looks impossible that a road ever could go straight from the Peace Gardens (the old Churchyard) to the Railway Station but I assure you it did.

The planners then had an idea that there would be a reinstatement of the direct route, though pedestrianised up steps to the gardens, then the city planners themselves allowed a hotel to be built slap bang in the middle of that route thus shooting themselves in the foot, they can't even stick to their own masterplan!

I think the route is idiotically complicated particularly for a new-comer now.

The hard landscaping is second rate, not on the level of some work in Liverpool 1 or Spinningfields in Manchester, I would have thought the Marais in Paris would be a better paradigm rather than London though many European cities probably have better examples than that.

Ask me one I don't know!

(sorry, its my subject)
 
Design is subjective, but having visited Sheffield with friends from elsewhere, the Heart of the City work is almost universally received positive. It's well acclaimed by RIBA, LI, RICS etc.

You can keep La Marais, if it's Paris I'd rather mooch around the less salubrious areas south of the Seine etc. paradigm...Give me a stroll along the High Line, Hell's Kitchen rather than Soho, Noho, Chelsea etc.
 
Is it a daft question to ask why the town hall has to be based in the center of Sheffield?
 
vorpal blade said:
I would look at the books obviously before I did anything, and possibly have an independent audit. I wouldn't take on trust what a local councillor with an axe to grind says.

I would consider spending some of the money that they want to throw straight into the bank accounts of Hammerson's directors on Don Valley Stadium instead.

If the stadium and the jobs that go with it REALLY cannot be sustained by the City, (I suspect the councillors are being theatrical remember), then give or sell or rent the facilities to some institution with more vision who can benefit from it.

I would approach Coe and Ennis and see what these eminent locals have to say about it all and what bright ideas they may have.

Oh and has anyone come up with an estimate of how much it will cost to demolish it all, its hardly a prime development location is it?
Click to expand...
It's not being demolished just closed.
You do understand that Central Gov is giving less to councils therefore either Council Tax has to be raised or cuts.
So you advocate spending more money on an independent audit when the Finance Dept at the council paid by the Council to do their job of compiling a list of options to meet the budget and the council have to choose what they see as the least worst option.
Coe isn't an eminent local he's a London Tory politician, Ennis has already said when DVS closes she will remain in Sheffield.
 
Rodley said:
I think SCC are a mixed bunch - the urban design/landscape architecture work on the pedestrian link from the train station to the Peace Gardens is absolutely fantastic. You'll not see better in any city outside of London.

I expect the Sevenstones development will be delivered in the next 3-4 years but it will be much smaller scale than originally planned. Not sure how the Moor redevelopment will come on, they may well need to rethink how that will work.

Surprised its been mentioned that Sheffield have made too many changes to the local transport infrastructure. They are light years behind Manchester (rolling out its Metro over the years) and Leeds has invested heavily in roads and will soon press on with the Trolleybus scheme. Certainly the industry perception is that Sheffield has drastically underinvested in transport infrastructure, has failed to expand the Supertram network and is generally a nightmare for road users due to lack of tough decisions being made.
Click to expand...

Well that's because of the major northern cities it built a reputation for cheap, virtually free bus fares. And then came bus deregulation. The potential to use rail is limited, though could have ben more effectively used in the east but alas the administrative boundaries of Notts/Derbys/S Yorks dont help here. So they opted for road schemes and a rather poorly designed tram network that has too much integrated road running.
 
vorpal blade said:
If the council are grandstanding, then they should be ashamed of themselves, old school politicking.

Didn't I hear recently that they were offering funds to Hammerson to bribe them into starting the Sevenstone scheme? Park Hill??

How in the name of logic can they be stupid enough to think that demolition of Don Valley will save them any money? It will I hope be offered to Hallamshire Harriers or a University or some similar club at a peppercorn rent.

THEY ARE CUTTING THEIR NOSES OFF TO SPITE THE FACE OF YOUR CITY. These Cretins still think they are fighting a party political war. The trouble is they will paint themselves into a corner and when the Government calls their bluff (why should they give a damn?) they will end up actually following through and razing the place, 'to save face' like some honour killing. Only this will be a suicide.
Click to expand...

With fairness to the council though, they had little choice with Park Hill ever since some moron at English Heritage decided it should be a listed building. Ditto with the co op building on Snig Hill.
 



they should have just bulldozed park hill, then blamed it on "an unfortunate administrative error" once its gone, what are you gonna do eh?

bloody things a joke. who in their right minds would pay £120k to live on park hill??? i wouldnt live there if you paid me, i dont care how "posh" the new flats are.

the don valley stadium is pointless. we all knew it when they built it. nobody in sheffield really cares a shit about athletics, sorry seb and jess but thats the honest truth, and its utterly horrible as a football/rugby venue. its got less atmosphere than mercury.

the trams are another load of shite, cos they dont go anywhere. id have to walk for nearly an hour to get to my nearest tram stop. whats the sense in that?? they dont replace buses, so basically just clogging up the roads for no real benefit. the traffic near the city centre grinds to a halt cos of these damn things. trams holding up buses is really rather ironic. it makes about as much sense as running buses on the railway tracks...

we have meadowhall in the arse end of nowhere, whilst the city centre has been allowed to die a death. ive been in the city centre nearly every day for 25 years. ive been to meadowhall about 10 times in my entire life. its not for sheffielders, its for people from tiny little villages who have never seen a shop to visit and wet their panties over.

not sure how the moor will work, seeing as nobody has gone there for about 8 years since it started resembling the worst areas of war-torn sarajevo. a few market stalls selling bananas and second hand phil collins cassettes wont be enough to tempt me back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Deadbat
Deadbat's Season Review / School Report 23-24 - Part 7: Strikers
Replies
11
Views
2K
Deadbat
Deadbat
Deadbat
United 1 Man City 2 - report/ratings
2 3
Replies
67
Views
7K
dn5 shaun
dn5 shaun
Deadbat
Sheffield United Season Review / School Report 22-23 - Part 4: Defence
Replies
11
Views
2K
Addison
A
Deadbat
Millwall 1 United 0 report
Replies
18
Views
3K
Revolution
Revolution
Deadbat
United 0 Blackpool 1 -
2
Replies
34
Views
5K
Varkanoid
Varkanoid

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom